New training facility and it’s location

Writing this on the other thread really got me thinking about barrows training and how we could do the same.

We MUST get new training facilities. And I think these must be in or around Doncaster. It’s not too far away for local lads and our youth team to get to and also not too far to lose all connection to the town. but it would be ideally placed for a very large catchment area.  This catchment area would be a game changer.

If you draw a circle round Grimsby. Half of it is in the sea.  This doesn’t make it great for recruiting players based on their location.

If we built a state of the art training facility in Doncaster, and drew the same circle around it, it would cover so many places.  Leeds down the road. Manchester is 1.30 away. Nottingham an hour. Birmingham 1.30. Players wouldn’t have to move families etc..  

These need to be top draw facilities as well. Up there with the best in the division. Proper strength and conditioning facility.  Better medical department. The works. Showing a player around these, which is far closer to their home, with the history of our club as well thrown in on top, would make recruitment a million times easier.


Fenty has driven us into the ground. We have had intercourse all of a progressive development plan for our club. The only plan we have had is to cut costs. We are miles behind most other clubs now. We have to start thinking like a modern day football club. The games moved on. How can we become an attractive place to play? What can we do to help us get back to the top of league one again?

For me it starts with a new state of the art training ground and it’s location. This trumps the new stadium. Yeah I hundred percent agree we need to move etc... but players will be more attracted to the former than the later. We need to put our money here first, and not spank it all on our move and have a great new stadium on the docks- but still struggle to attract decent players cos they would have to spend the majority of their training week in 3 portacabins. Get both if possible, if not ..... then the training ground first, stadium second.

Having said all that..... if the only way we could afford it, was if we sold a million pounds worth of shares to a convicted fraudster...... I’d rather us train on Cleethorpes beach forevermore.

Interesting.
How many other clubs have a training facility 50 miles from their stadium??

Quoted from Stadium

Interesting.
How many other clubs have a training facility 50 miles from their stadium??

Locally to me I know bury used to train in Carrington which is twenty miles and barrow even further ,

There are a lot of eye catching headlines about this, but we are looking at a decision to affect the next couple of decades, maybe more, so no knee jerk reactions please.

We might for example want to share facility with one of our feeder clubs, like Scunny who will surely be confined to non league soon.

We should also make sure we understand the extent to which this remote facility approach is used across the leagues, and does it work. Not so long ago we wanted everything on one site to allow local people to use most of the weeks.

It’s not a NOW decision, but it’s certainly an important one.

Training facilities are not just for the first team, but also for all the youth and junior teams. By putting them far out of town to accommodate players that live out of town you will make the inaccessible to the young local players. If players sign for us then they know where we train and will be able to afford a car and petrol.

Daft idea to move them for the players that live away at the expense of the local talent  

Quoted from 3610

Writing this on the other thread really got me thinking about barrows training and how we could do the same.

We MUST get new training facilities. And I think these must be in or around Doncaster. It’s not too far away for local lads and our youth team to get to and also not too far to lose all connection to the town. but it would be ideally placed for a very large catchment area.  This catchment area would be a game changer.

If you draw a circle round Grimsby. Half of it is in the sea.  This doesn’t make it great for recruiting players based on their location.

If we built a state of the art training facility in Doncaster, and drew the same circle around it, it would cover so many places.  Leeds down the road. Manchester is 1.30 away. Nottingham an hour. Birmingham 1.30. Players wouldn’t have to move families etc..  

These need to be top draw facilities as well. Up there with the best in the division. Proper strength and conditioning facility.  Better medical department. The works. Showing a player around these, which is far closer to their home, with the history of our club as well thrown in on top, would make recruitment a million times easier.


Fenty has driven us into the ground. We have had intercourse all of a progressive development plan for our club. The only plan we have had is to cut costs. We are miles behind most other clubs now. We have to start thinking like a modern day football club. The games moved on. How can we become an attractive place to play? What can we do to help us get back to the top of league one again?

For me it starts with a new state of the art training ground and it’s location. This trumps the new stadium. Yeah I hundred percent agree we need to move etc... but players will be more attracted to the former than the later. We need to put our money here first, and not spank it all on our move and have a great new stadium on the docks- but still struggle to attract decent players cos they would have to spend the majority of their training week in 3 portacabins. Get both if possible, if not ..... then the training ground first, stadium second.

Having said all that..... if the only way we could afford it, was if we sold a million pounds worth of shares to a convicted fraudster...... I’d rather us train on Cleethorpes beach forevermore.

I get your point but why would you draw a circle and include the Humber if you were looking at a catchment area ? Are you looking to hijack the passing ships for football talent ?  Liverpool , Everton , Hull , Southampton, Portsmouth, Newcastle, Sunderland , Swansea, Cardiff, Blackpool, Fleetwood etc etc are all the same in that respect , coastal towns/ cities with their backs to the water.
Time was we were the draw for the whole of Northern Lincolnshire , Humberside ......but the other local teams have surpassed us in League standings over the last 10 -15 yrs....our decline over that period saw the youth set up savaged, any ground/ infrastructure spending scythed and the penny pincher behind it all also responsible for "negotiating" player contracts.
Whilst i am not against a move for a more central training base it certainly isnt just a case of location location location....i am somewhat hopeful that any new takeover may see some of the draconian spending habits disappear and we may find that suddenly the location isnt that much of an issue.....as long as we can climb out of the current spot we find ourselves in league position wise.

Would fully agree with that. Day to day, players spend most of their working life at GTFC on the training ground - 4/5 days a week, all morning & early afternoon. Most players will only see BP about 25 times a year.

We need to be closer to the major population centres nearby - Sheffield, Doncaster, Leeds & West Yorks, even Hull. Even from Doncaster North services, you’re looking at 60-90 mins each way on a good day. Do that 5 times a week and it soon adds up in time, petrol, wear & tear on the car/body/mind.

It’s unrealistic to expect players to relocate to the area on 1 and 2 year  contracts, and on the wages we offer. Things are also a lot different to 30, 40, 50 years ago too as most households have two working adults now.  

We've got an incoming board whose central plan is to redevelop the run down areas of the docks in Grimsby and enrich what is still quite a large but neglected conurbation. So building a state of the art training facility fifty miles away in another county to save a percentage of players forty minutes off a commute while denying the club, its youth development and local townsfolk the chance to benefit from a centralised facility is never gonna happen and this nonsensical idea needs putting to bed. What a massive statement in lack of confidence of project all new GTFC that would be. Just another reason for for not wanting a fan led club is even the notion of building a training facility fifty miles away getting any traction at all on here. Talking about using a panicky short-termist sledgehammer to crack a nut. There are so many ways to make our club a more attractive proposition for prospective players, which I'm sure in time Shutes & Co with the help of PH will address. The aim should be eventually to have a good proportion of a successful squad staying at the club beyond a year or two, continuity breeds success, we haven't had that for so long due to brinkmanship, lack of foresight and penny pinching, while other clubs have flourished. A training facility in South Yorkshire isn't at the bottom of the list, it shouldn't even be on the list..

Quoted from Stadium

Interesting.
How many other clubs have a training facility 50 miles from their stadium??

Other than Barrow.. none.
The idea's not radical, it's knee-jerk, short-sighted and barmy..

Quoted from Bigdog

Other than Barrow.. none.
The idea's not radical, it's knee-jerk, short-sighted and barmy..

Exactly
No knee jerk reaction please

I've never read so much crap in my life

Quoted from Bigdog

Other than Barrow.. none.
The idea's not radical, it's knee-jerk, short-sighted and barmy..

And that’s not at all a knee jerk reaction is it?

Since when has this club ever pandered down to the players? Bugga all the other clubs. Training facilities have always been local, even before the club moved its training facilities to Cheapside.

Location has nothing to do with it. Wages are the problem. This has been proven many times over the years, and especially over the last 13 months we have heard of numerous times players have been 'on the verge' of signing but then join another team because they were either offered a higher wage, full stop, or Fenty's insistence of including a Covid clause.

If the wages are right, players will come. If we could sign a few proven younger players whose wages would not be included in the allowed budget, then that could be a shrewd piece of business. Whatever happened to 'speculate to accumulate'?

We should never pander to the players, just pay them more! 🙃 We’re going to have a job on with that in the future given the salary cap the current board were so keen to vote through.

Been said countless times by managers recently that location IS an issue and it’s difficult to attract players to the club. Money isn’t everything, especially at our level where you’re talking in the realms of an extra £25, £50, £100.

We need to move away from “what we have always done”. We’ve been in steady ( sometimes not so steady) decline for at least 20 years now, the world has moved on around us and we need to be innovative to make up for these two lost decades. I don’t think it’s something SSP would be interested in, but there are far worse ideas.

Players don’t train from 8am to 5pm all day they might do 3 hours per day so an hours drive each way is nothing 3 or 4 times a week.

If location is that important why not build it in London.

Building a training facility that’s state of the art and a little more than the Sunday league affair at cheapside would go a long way to recruiting players and developing younger lads.

If it’s built out of town, on a more accessible route what’s the issue?

I’m assuming those saying it should be in the town are the same folk that still buy in to the notion that players should live in the area? Once upon a time may be but the world and game has moved forward. If living an hour away means the player is happier personally that is more likely to have a positive impact on their professional life.

I’ve spent almost my entire career working a considerable distance from my home, if I moved to here my school is situated I wouldn’t be happy which then has a knock on effect.

Building the training facility near Barton or even Brigg is hardly a million miles away.

Carrington is a considerable distance from Old Trafford if you drive it...however, it’s pretty much straight off the motorway.

It has to be food for thought and first and foremost, has to be about improving facilities.

We’d all agree, recruitment has always been an issue, more so over the last 20 years. Cheapside isn’t the only reason for that but it can’t help.

Perhaps this isn’t even on the consortiums plan but from a supporter point of view it’s a more enjoyable discussion than constantly going over how flipping dreadful we are...

Any move needs thinking through carefully...

My mum and dad live on Cheapside and a lot of the youth players get the bus to training - they get off at the crossroads and walk down Cheapside to the training ground. They would need help to get a new training ground out of town whether it's Gt Coates or Doncaster.

Regeneration is the key here. I think I read that the consortium are looking to regenerate the old fishing ice house. Well, this could also include a 'digs' block for incoming youth/talent. Easy train/transport links, our own kind of 'centre for excellence.' Just think what a pull this would create for incoming talent for/from our area.

Now wouldn't that be great?

This must be one of the most stupid threads ever suggesting we have a training ground 50 miles away FFS

Quoted from Bigdog

Other than Barrow.. none.
The idea's not radical, it's knee-jerk, short-sighted and barmy..

Not 50 miles, but Notts County spent a spell using St. George's Park as their training base. That's a 38 miles drive from Meadow Lane.

Stick some caravans on cheapside job done.

I wonder if Cheapside has planning position for houses, who owns the land and who would do the building  Methinks.

Quoted from golfer

I wonder if Cheapside has planning position for houses, who owns the land and who would do the building  Methinks.

Dont give fenty any more ideas  

Maybe in Salford you could watch?

I agree about times changing and the practicality of players not wanting to uproot their families for 1 or 2 year contracts. For me, the ideal location would be somewhere near to elsham/brigg . Great links to road, air and rail networks, not too far from Grimsby/cleethorpes and already has the likes of elsham hall and forest pines in close proximity (beats staying at millfields sic)

Will it happen? I think it is doubtful but with the potential new owners actually prepared to be ‘radical’ and forward thinking, then who knows

Don’t jump down my throat on this but how about Brigg? There is the Brigg Town ground of course plus a Leisure centre.unfortunately it is not in NEL.  An alternative if we do not want to upset Cleethorpes Town by investing in their rivals would be the Clee Road site or the North Prom sands, tides permitting.

Seems to me though that Brigg has many advantages, easy M-way access being key.

Non starter for me - unfair on the youth team and further disconnects the town from the club.

The consortium are all about regenerating the town and bringing back a sense of pride in the club, so I'd be surprised if they entertained this idea (although I can understand where it came from).

How about we build a state-of-the-art training facility right here in Grimsby, with everything a modern footballer would want.

Make it something they'd be willing to travel for.

Quoted from psgmariner

Non starter for me - unfair on the youth team and further disconnects the town from the club.

And also unfair on the players that actually do move to the Grimsby area and are willing and available to get involved in community projects. I thought that's what everyone wanted, Just because a failed penny pinching regime has struggled to attract players to their crumbling club citing location as the key excuse for their failure to sign players of any quality, doesn't mean to say it will always be so under new ownership. I could just about understand this idea out of desperation under a continuing Fenty regime, but I trust the new owners will change the perception of the club over time to make this whole training ground location "problem" a moot point..

A sort of halfway house would be to locate the training facilities in Brigg. For players who live in Sheffield or Leeds (perhaps Nottingham) this becomes more commutable but it’s not far for the youth team to come.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

A sort of halfway house would be to locate the training facilities in Brigg. For players who live in Sheffield or Leeds (perhaps Nottingham) this becomes more commutable but it’s not far for the youth team to come.

Let's spend a once in a lifetime £5m on a halfway house (compromise) to save a handful of uncommitted players on short contracts 20 minutes off a commute while inconveniencing hundreds of junior and youth players, their coaches, parents, the players that live in and around Grimsby, our sports science team, our physios etc etc etc and have what should be a community asset.. not in our community..

Aren’t the youth team already based at Wintringham rather than Cheapside?

Quoted from ska face

Aren’t the youth team already based at Wintringham rather than Cheapside?

Cheapside isn't big enough for all of the age groups and lacks floodlit and all weather facilities. Surely the aim for the long term should be to centralise the whole operation?

Quoted from ska face

Aren’t the youth team already based at Wintringham rather than Cheapside?

Only due to covid measures I think. Its only the Academy age groups that are normally based at Wintringham.

Quoted from 3610

Writing this on the other thread really got me thinking about barrows training and how we could do the same.

We MUST get new training facilities. And I think these must be in or around Doncaster. It’s not too far away for local lads and our youth team to get to and also not too far to lose all connection to the town. but it would be ideally placed for a very large catchment area.  This catchment area would be a game changer.

If you draw a circle round Grimsby. Half of it is in the sea.  This doesn’t make it great for recruiting players based on their location.

If we built a state of the art training facility in Doncaster, and drew the same circle around it, it would cover so many places.  Leeds down the road. Manchester is 1.30 away. Nottingham an hour. Birmingham 1.30. Players wouldn’t have to move families etc..  

These need to be top draw facilities as well. Up there with the best in the division. Proper strength and conditioning facility.  Better medical department. The works. Showing a player around these, which is far closer to their home, with the history of our club as well thrown in on top, would make recruitment a million times easier.


Fenty has driven us into the ground. We have had intercourse all of a progressive development plan for our club. The only plan we have had is to cut costs. We are miles behind most other clubs now. We have to start thinking like a modern day football club. The games moved on. How can we become an attractive place to play? What can we do to help us get back to the top of league one again?

For me it starts with a new state of the art training ground and it’s location. This trumps the new stadium. Yeah I hundred percent agree we need to move etc... but players will be more attracted to the former than the later. We need to put our money here first, and not spank it all on our move and have a great new stadium on the docks- but still struggle to attract decent players cos they would have to spend the majority of their training week in 3 portacabins. Get both if possible, if not ..... then the training ground first, stadium second.

Having said all that..... if the only way we could afford it, was if we sold a million pounds worth of shares to a convicted fraudster...... I’d rather us train on Cleethorpes beach forevermore.

Doncaster would be a good shout to be fair. Direct connection to London through the East Coast Mainline (Doncaster Station) and other big cities like Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Hull, Newcastle etc.

Quoted from wuffing

Regeneration is the key here. I think I read that the consortium are looking to regenerate the old fishing ice house. Well, this could also include a 'digs' block for incoming youth/talent. Easy train/transport links, our own kind of 'centre for excellence.' Just think what a pull this would create for incoming talent for/from our area.

Now wouldn't that be great?

This tackles the location issue another way round.  Providing housing as part of the package may make things more attractive for players.

Of course, that would mean a lot of capital investment and a strategic vision.

Investment in whatever form, whether moving or improving facilities, has to be at the heart of our progression.  

Over time this kind of structural investment would be of more value than just spunking money on a couple of transfer fees - year on year this kind of investment will make us more attractive and competitive in player recruitment.

Quoted from grimsbybrown

This tackles the location issue another way round.  Providing housing as part of the package may make things more attractive for players.

Of course, that would mean a lot of capital investment and a strategic vision.

Investment in whatever form, whether moving or improving facilities, has to be at the heart of our progression.  

Over time this kind of structural investment would be of more value than just spunking money on a couple of transfer fees - year on year this kind of investment will make us more attractive and competitive in player recruitment.

The problem with tied housing (unless the players can afford to keep their current houses) is people like different things. It’s a bit like in the services where everyone gets the same and had limited freedom what they can do with it.

Quoted from grimsbybrown

This tackles the location issue another way round.  Providing housing as part of the package may make things more attractive for players.

Of course, that would mean a lot of capital investment and a strategic vision.

Investment in whatever form, whether moving or improving facilities, has to be at the heart of our progression.  

Over time this kind of structural investment would be of more value than just spunking money on a couple of transfer fees - year on year this kind of investment will make us more attractive and competitive in player recruitment.

The problem with tied housing (unless the players can afford to keep their current houses) is people like different things. It’s a bit like in the services where everyone gets the same and had limited freedom what they can do with it.

Is there any reason why the training facilities can't be on the docks too?

I love it as a location for the new stadium. You've got a train station literally opposite the road, for all the exiles and away fans, and easy access straight back out onto the A180.

All this talk about a halfway house... if you've got all the way to Brigg or Scunny, what's another 20-30 mins commute if you're gonna get to train at a high-spec modern training ground?

Quoted from Bigdog

Let's spend a once in a lifetime £5m on a halfway house (compromise) to save a handful of uncommitted players on short contracts 20 minutes off a commute while inconveniencing hundreds of junior and youth players, their coaches, parents, the players that live in and around Grimsby, our sports science team, our physios etc etc etc and have what should be a community asset.. not in our community..

Firstly, £5 million? Really? Lincoln's training ground cost £1.3m.

And Junior players aren't based at Cheapside are they? They're based at Oasis Academy Wintringham, so doesn't effect them where the first team are training.

Youth players (I assume you mean 1st & 2nd year YTs) aren't all based in North East Lincolnshire are they? Take a closer look at them. As many come from other's club's academies than come through our own junior system. At the end of the day those players are club employees as soon as they sign a YT form and they will train wherever the club tells them to train. The club has a mini bus for those who can't make their own way to the training ground. Nothing would change,

And anyway, who said the club's training ground should be a community asset? It's not. It's the clubs premises for training and match preparation.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Firstly, £5 million? Really? Lincoln's training ground cost £1.3m.

And Junior players aren't based at Cheapside are they? They're based at Oasis Academy Wintringham, so doesn't effect them where the first team are training.

Youth players (I assume you mean 1st & 2nd year YTs) aren't all based in North East Lincolnshire are they? Take a closer look at them. As many come from other's club's academies than come through our own junior system. At the end of the day those players are club employees as soon as they sign a YT form and they will train wherever the club tells them to train. The club has a mini bus for those who can't make their own way to the training ground. Nothing would change,

And anyway, who said the club's training ground should be a community asset? It's not. It's the clubs premises for training and match preparation.

Our new owners history in being involved with grant funded community based projects perhaps?

Lincoln's training complex isn't comprehensive. It's a very basic facility but obviously better than we have at present and centred around the first team, other age groups still spread across the city, I'd hope we aspire to better for the long term. Only three turf pitches, none artificial which can cost between 300-500k apiece. Not floodlit, no indoor pitch. It offers little more capacity than Cheapside other than better quality facilities, building and pitches. Of course it may be enough for what we need, and I'd happily take that, but I think we could do better. Other lower league clubs have invested much more than 1.3m, costs of creating turf pitches with drainage systems don't come cheap as don't artificial pitches, indoor pitches or floodlights or the land itself. Lincoln was privately funded and has stopped short of being a facility for every level of their club. I'd hope we could build a better centralised centre of excellence for all and creating a community asset is advantageous in obtaining grants to build something better than Lincoln have got. Why not aspire to do better than our rivals?


Google..                    

measuring the impact of efl clubs in the community - EFL.com

It's a pdf. Well worth a download and read..

Quoted from Bigdog

Lincoln's training complex isn't comprehensive. It's a very basic facility but obviously better than we have at present and centred around the first team, other age groups still spread across the city, I'd hope we aspire to better for the long term. Only three turf pitches, none artificial which can cost between 300-500k apiece. Not floodlit, no indoor pitch. It offers little more capacity than Cheapside other than better quality facilities, building and pitches. Of course it may be enough for what we need, and I'd happily take that, but I think we could do better. Other lower league clubs have invested much more than 1.3m, costs of creating turf pitches with drainage systems don't come cheap as don't artificial pitches, indoor pitches or floodlights or the land itself. Lincoln was privately funded and has stopped short of being a facility for every level of their club. I'd hope we could build a better centralised centre of excellence for all and creating a community asset is advantageous in obtaining grants to build something better than Lincoln have got. Why not aspire to do better than our rivals?


Google..                    

measuring the impact of efl clubs in the community - EFL.com

It's a pdf. Well worth a download and read..

So it's better than our's in every way conceivable. More pitches. Better pitches. A better building. Better facilities. Better gym.

Why would we need floodlights on our training ground? Players are generally in from about 9:30AM until early afternoon (2ish). Daylight all year round during those hours.

Anyway, a sensible approach would be to build what we need now (see Lincoln's), but built in a way to add facilities in the future as we progress.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

So it's better than our's in every way conceivable. More pitches. Better pitches. A better building. Better facilities. Better gym.

Why would we need floodlights on our training ground? Players are generally in from about 9:30AM until early afternoon (2ish). Daylight all year round during those hours.

Anyway, a sensible approach would be to build what we need now (see Lincoln's), but built in a way to add facilities in the future as we progress.

Who knows what the right or sensible approach is? You know what our new training ground budget is? I don't either, I was just going off the sums that other clubs have spent and the physical cost of buildings, pitches etc. It won't be our decision. It's beyond our knowledge at the minute. As it stands today we haven't a pot to pisss in and we're stuck at Cheapside. Of course we'd look at Lincoln's today and want that compared to Cheapside, but I was only pointing out that there could be better ways to create a more comprehensive grant funded training facility than the basic one at Lincoln, and one that just doesn't centre around the first team..

Read the debate re Lincoln’s training ground and, unless they have made significant improvements to it, I would hope we are getting something better. They have built there’s on the side of the A15, opposite RAF Scampton, where is is exposed very much to the elements and has had to be relaid already as it is susceptible to flooding. Plus not sure that it’s very much bigger in acreage to Cheapside.

They may have addressed a number of these issues, no doubt Norfolk Imp will soon correct me, but it certainly doesn’t look like the best choice of site to me.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Read the debate re Lincoln’s training ground and, unless they have made significant improvements to it, I would hope we are getting something better. They have built there’s on the side of the A15, opposite RAF Scampton, where is is exposed very much to the elements and has had to be relaid already as it is susceptible to flooding. Plus not sure that it’s very much bigger in acreage to Cheapside.

They may have addressed a number of these issues, no doubt Norfolk Imp will soon correct me, but it certainly doesn’t look like the best choice of site to me.

Sounds like an exposed site. Up there on the ridge, and then with Scampton's wide open spaces.