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National League at risk

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Marinerdeano
January 18, 2021, 7:36pm
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Eastendmariner
January 18, 2021, 7:42pm
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if it folds there maybe no relegation from Div 2

I'll take it UTM


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RonMariner
January 18, 2021, 7:47pm

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I’d feel sorry for teams at the top of the NL but by Jesus, would it be a relief.
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Yoda
January 18, 2021, 7:47pm
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I think most of the games are off on tuesday
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louth_in_the_south
January 18, 2021, 7:50pm

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Please be abandoned 🥳🥳🥳


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DB
January 18, 2021, 8:35pm
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A null and void National league would be the best news ever. Gives Hursty time to build  a new squad for a promotion push next season.


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louth_in_the_south
January 18, 2021, 9:24pm

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Certainly sounds like the NL will be forced to abandon with no revenue coming in except for loans that 95% of the division will want with no chance of promotion


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heppy88
January 18, 2021, 10:08pm
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To be honest I hope the NL can sort this out and continue/complete the rest of the season. I bet all the folks on here praying for an end to this season’s NL, purchased all the cheat codes for their computer games! Seriously if we finish in the bottom then we deserve to go down. FFS let’s try and stay up because we’re good enough, because Hurst and Doig overcome the sh!te Hollowords left us in. Takeaway the risk of relegation, take away the challenge and what do we achieve? We don’t need to rely on others misfortune. We’re the mighty mariners. Get a grip.
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GrimRob
January 18, 2021, 10:35pm

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I'd take it  


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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denni266
January 18, 2021, 10:43pm

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I would take it if it ment we stay up.  But realy hope none of them go bust  and go for  for good
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arryarryarry
January 18, 2021, 10:45pm
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Quoted from DB
A null and void National league would be the best news ever. Gives Hursty time to build  a new squad for a promotion push next season.


I think it is pretty sad that some are hoping that another League has to shut down and that professional footballers aren't allowed to play the sport they love just to save our skins.
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louth_in_the_south
January 18, 2021, 10:48pm

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I’m sorry but if they abandon their season to save themselves financially, which is totally reasonable btw , I don’t care about it saving us so our new owners can start the rebuilding of gtfc next season.


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GrimRob
January 18, 2021, 10:51pm

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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
I’m sorry but if they abandon their season to save themselves financially, which is totally reasonable btw , I don’t care about it saving us so our new owners can start the rebuilding of gtfc next season.


I can't honestly see the government not changing their minds, if they ever made the decision at all. It's only a tweet which suggests they are loans. Once people kick up a fuss someone will just add it to the government's slate as they have done with so many other things.


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forza ivano
January 18, 2021, 11:01pm

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https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1351236276750528517


looks like Wednesday might be an interesting day (something happening over the pond apparently as well on that day)
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KingstonMariner
January 18, 2021, 11:04pm
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Think you’re right about the government Rob.

Though it’d be a relief for us it’d be a pretty unsatisfactory way to do it.


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DB
January 18, 2021, 11:17pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


I think it is pretty sad that some are hoping that another League has to shut down and that professional footballers aren't allowed to play the sport they love just to save our skins.


I sympathise with them but it is Town who I am bothered about. I don't remember any sympathy for us, or Notts County, when we dropped into the national league as both are 'elder' clubs and founders of the FA etc.

If it's us or them, then can stay where they are till next season.


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Marinerdeano
January 18, 2021, 11:36pm
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I'm going to be a bit selfish on this one, after a year of a lot of selflessness. Our town and community need a football league club. It's not the fault of the fans that things have gone mammaries up recently. We've had too much false hope and let down in recent years and deserve better. Our people, our fans, deserve a reprieve. Covid doesn't put football into perspective, it merely enhances the crave for what you are missing. We've done our National League time. We've had that chapter. As a human being part of that being is pride in my football club and I need that back and a huge part of that is being a league club. I can't accept let down. I can't accept the usual Grimsby's risk averseness being to our detriment, whilst others flaunt/get lucky.  If they have to cancel the National League at this stage it's not like our luck would be down to a club folding. I would bloody take that but still would not accept bottom 2.
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Mayaman
January 18, 2021, 11:42pm
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All the people that want it to fold are cowards. is this what football has come to ? Lack of Grimsby grit. Get a grip  I want is to stay up on our own merits, not due to the demise of others. If we go down, so be it and I will do it graciously. I believe we'll stay up but at least there will be something to play for.
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smokey111
January 18, 2021, 11:45pm
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Quoted from Mayaman
All the people that want it to fold are cowards. is this what football has come to ? Lack of Grimsby grit. Get a grip  I want is to stay up on our own merits, not due to the demise of others. If we go down, so be it and I will do it graciously!


Not sure my 'Grimsby grit' extends to 6 years of Boreham Wood away from home.


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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Mayaman
January 18, 2021, 11:49pm
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Quoted from smokey111


Not sure my 'Grimsby grit' extends to 6 years of Boreham Wood away from home.


I'll tell you what, let's stop relegation altogether so football fans aren't disappointed.
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Mariner_09
January 18, 2021, 11:53pm
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It would be pretty damning if were ultimately saved by the abandonment of the Conference season, I for one hold hope we can escape on our own merit in the meantime. However, I wouldn't complain if we were saved by it. Looking at it objectively it seems somewhat unlikely they can finish the season on time. The combination of bad pitches and COVID is proving nigh on impossible for some teams and given what I remember, those pitches are unlikely to see many more games in the near future.


I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
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smokey111
January 18, 2021, 11:55pm
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Quoted from Mayaman


I'll tell you what, let's stop relegation altogether so football fans aren't disappointed.


Not sure that is what is being discussed. If the division below unfortunately fails to complete, and there is no promotion/relegation for one year then due to such exceptional circumstances, we may have dodged a bullet. I wouldn't lose any sleep if that was the scenario.


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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ska face
January 18, 2021, 11:57pm

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When we were last relegated from the football league, the youth system effectively folded and what remained was only done so off the back of fundraising by players’ parents, The Trust & fans. Budgets were slashed, people lost their jobs and we’re still dealing with the fallout.

“Grimsby Grit” doesn’t pay the bills, it exists only in words on a screen. I’d take anything to stop us dropping out of the league again.
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KingstonMariner
January 19, 2021, 12:05am
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“ pride in my football club and I need that back”

We all want that Deano but we won’t get it back if we survive simply because the league below cannot complete it’s fixtures. That’s the opposite of pride. Call me old-fashioned, but I want us to survive on merit.


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Poojah
January 19, 2021, 12:18am
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Quoted from ska face
When we were last relegated from the football league, the youth system effectively folded and what remained was only done so off the back of fundraising by players’ parents, The Trust & fans. Budgets were slashed, people lost their jobs and we’re still dealing with the fallout.

“Grimsby Grit” doesn’t pay the bills, it exists only in words on a screen. I’d take anything to stop us dropping out of the league again.


Agree with all of that, except for the notion that “Grimsby grit” doesn’t exist. I think there’s something in it, personally.

The town’s place as a fishing powerhouse is long gone, but the values of its heyday persist through generations.

Work fúcking hard, fear nothing, don’t take shìt, don’t feel sorry for yourself, get up when you get knocked down and look after your family above anything else. Those are the lessons I learned from my 18 years in the area (not just through my parents, either), and whilst not unique, I feel they run strong in the town.

None of that will help us avoid relegation this season, but I genuinely believe there are advantages to growing up in an area (wrongly, in my opinion) considered forlorn and unattractive.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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DB
January 19, 2021, 12:22am
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I believe  “Grimsby grit” was a term used by Mick Lyons who came roaring in and left like girl private cat.


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ginnywings
January 19, 2021, 1:53am

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I fully endorse promotion and relegation in football. However, this is no normal year and regardless of where we are in the league, I would be saying the same thing; that football should be scrapped until there is free movement once again.

It's a farce without fans and all this trying to cram the fixtures in with some teams miles behind, is just getting dafter by the week.

If the season does carry on and we are relegated, then so be it, we deserve it, but if we are relegated on some half ar$ed PPG, then I will be majorly p1ssed off.

You can't decide the fate of a team based on two thirds of a season, because anything can happen in those remaining unplayed games. There are too many unknowns for it to be fair and equitable.
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Mayaman
January 19, 2021, 2:58am
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Quoted from ska face
When we were last relegated from the football league, the youth system effectively folded and what remained was only done so off the back of fundraising by players’ parents, The Trust & fans. Budgets were slashed, people lost their jobs and we’re still dealing with the fallout.

“Grimsby Grit” doesn’t pay the bills, it exists only in words on a screen. I’d take anything to stop us dropping out of the league again.


Anything ? cheat ? Then what's the point of a league?

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Mayaman
January 19, 2021, 3:02am
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Quoted from Poojah


Agree with all of that, except for the notion that “Grimsby grit” doesn’t exist. I think there’s something in it, personally.

The town’s place as a fishing powerhouse is long gone, but the values of its heyday persist through generations.

Work fúcking hard, fear nothing, don’t take shìt, don’t feel sorry for yourself, get up when you get knocked down and look after your family above anything else. Those are the lessons I learned from my 18 years in the area (not just through my parents, either), and whilst not unique, I feel they run strong in the town.

None of that will help us avoid relegation this season, but I genuinely believe there are advantages to growing up in an area (wrongly, in my opinion) considered forlorn and unattractive.


Well said mate. I work with a lot of people from privilaged backgrounds. They are a waste of space  Any small hinderance and they spit their dummy out.
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ska face
January 19, 2021, 4:34am

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Quoted from Poojah


Agree with all of that, except for the notion that “Grimsby grit” doesn’t exist. I think there’s something in it, personally.

The town’s place as a fishing powerhouse is long gone, but the values of its heyday persist through generations.

Work fúcking hard, fear nothing, don’t take shìt, don’t feel sorry for yourself, get up when you get knocked down and look after your family above anything else. Those are the lessons I learned from my 18 years in the area (not just through my parents, either), and whilst not unique, I feel they run strong in the town.

None of that will help us avoid relegation this season, but I genuinely believe there are advantages to growing up in an area (wrongly, in my opinion) considered forlorn and unattractive.


I’m sure there’s an element of if which is unique to the area, but it doesn’t translate to the players especially with the fans not in the ground.

Think I’m just becoming more disillusioned with the whole thing since the King of Bullshït Mountain used us to freshen up his gag reel. It’s the kind of thing he’d be saying when he did his visits to the Council depots. It sounds like marketing bumf.

It certainly doesn’t resonate with the players who couldn’t  give less than one shíte about it. Had years of fans saying the players should down the docks at 5am to see what it means - they don’t care, it’s not the 70s anymore, most are out the door in 18 months. Most live an hour or two away and there’ll be players leaving in the summer who will have never even spoken to anyone from GY, much less bought into the idea of “Grimsby grit”.
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ska face
January 19, 2021, 4:41am

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Quoted from Mayaman


Anything ? cheat ? Then what's the point of a league?



Yeah if it’s on offer. I’m sure Leicester fans weren’t sat there after they won the Prem clutching their pearls and saying “ooooh we shouldn’t have broke the financial fair play rules in 2013, this is tainted!”  

Cheating, voiding the league, a minor asteroid strike - I couldn’t care less what happens as long as we stay up this season. Then I’ll have a look at the old moral compass during a period of deep introspection over the summer
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GollyGTFC
January 19, 2021, 6:09am

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Quoted from Mayaman


Anything ? cheat ? Then what's the point of a league?



Do you think Stevenage have lost any sleep over last season? Technically they were bottom by 10 points when the league season was curtailed and they survived because Bury had been thrown out of the league & Macclesfield were deducted 13 points.

You could argue it would be cheating if the National League played 60% of their season and expected the EFL to accept that as a completed season & agree to promotion and relegation. How would the 2 relegated clubs feel if they had played a full 46 matches & the clubs replacing them had only played 27 or so of their 44 planned league matches.
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forza ivano
January 19, 2021, 7:02am

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several Yeovil fans saying they think it'll be the typical National League fudge and that the outcome will be a 1  month suspension. Apparently the loans rather than grants stipulation has been known about by the Exec since November and they've kept the chairmen/women in the dark. Lot of very unhappy people apparently
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Jarmo.Is.God
January 19, 2021, 8:17am

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Quoted from forza ivano
several Yeovil fans saying they think it'll be the typical National League fudge and that the outcome will be a 1  month suspension. Apparently the loans rather than grants stipulation has been known about by the Exec since November and they've kept the chairmen/women in the dark. Lot of very unhappy people apparently


I don't understand this suspension thing.

When they said about the EFL and Premier league having a 'circuit break' for a few weeks..
The players would still need to train with the squad?
Surely you can't go 2/3 weeks of just running in your house and expect them to keep up the match fitness
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GollyGTFC
January 19, 2021, 8:58am

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Quoted from forza ivano
several Yeovil fans saying they think it'll be the typical National League fudge and that the outcome will be a 1  month suspension. Apparently the loans rather than grants stipulation has been known about by the Exec since November and they've kept the chairmen/women in the dark. Lot of very unhappy people apparently


I don't think a suspension is an option.The fixture pile up is getting critical as it is. There is no way they can go beyond the current National League end of regular season date- Saturday 29th May. That allows the play-offs to be completed by Saturday 12th June which is the last possible moment for the winning club to be admitted into the EFL. They have to carry on or just knock the season on the head.

They should be consulting the EFL with regards what the EFL will accept as a completed season. And the EFL should tell them their season needs to be completed in full (everyone playing all 44 matches) and that the Saturday 12th June end date is absolute and final.

Personally, I think it will be abandoned.
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heppy88
January 19, 2021, 9:23am
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Current Fishy consensus with town sitting 2nd from bottom:
“Oh, we do hope the NL is cancelled this season. We can’t possibly go down again. We are too much of a big club to be relegated out of the league again. Us fans have suffered enough and it’s not our fault 😞😢”

Alternative universe: Current Fishy consensus with town sitting 2nd from top: “What do you mean the NL are scrapping their season? No promotion?! What the fu(k!! The selfish illegitimates, don’t they know we supported the NL for 6 years, us being a big club and all. We MUST be promoted it’s our destiny, the NL must  continue at whatever cost!!!!!”
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male private Nale
January 19, 2021, 9:54am
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Every one hoping for NL to capitulate are as bigger bottle jobs as hollowhead. We still have Almost half season left.

Wanting others to fail in their achievements to enable us to survive in league two leaves a sour taste.

Same people no doubt demanding fight and integrity from the town players, make me laugh, pass the white feathers.

Wouldn’t want you in the trenches alongside me.
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Zmariner
January 19, 2021, 10:03am
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Quoted from male private Nale
Every one hoping for NL to capitulate are as bigger bottle jobs as hollowhead. We still have Almost half season left.

Wanting others to fail in their achievements to enable us to survive in league two leaves a sour taste.

Same people no doubt demanding fight and integrity from the town players, make me laugh, pass the white feathers.

Wouldn’t want you in the trenches alongside me.


Completely agree, deal with where we are now. If anything else happens so be it. The battle starts on Saturday, the rest is just hot air utm

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ginnywings
January 19, 2021, 10:09am

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Quoted from male private Nale
Every one hoping for NL to capitulate are as bigger bottle jobs as hollowhead. We still have Almost half season left.

Wanting others to fail in their achievements to enable us to survive in league two leaves a sour taste.

Same people no doubt demanding fight and integrity from the town players, make me laugh, pass the white feathers.

Wouldn’t want you in the trenches alongside me.


Bottle jobs?

It's beyond our control whether the NL finishes early, but if it does and we benefit from it, then so be it.

If both the NL and our league are played to a conclusion and we are relegated on merit, then again, so be it, we deserve it.

As things are at the moment, without fans and players not being able to train properly, it's a farce of a competition, and the plug should be pulled in my opinion.
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pen penfras
January 19, 2021, 10:19am

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Quoted from ginnywings


Bottle jobs?

It's beyond our control whether the NL finishes early, but if it does and we benefit from it, then so be it.

If both the NL and our league are played to a conclusion and we are relegated on merit, then again, so be it, we deserve it.

As things are at the moment, without fans and players not being able to train properly, it's a farce of a competition, and the plug should be pulled in my opinion.


I don't understand why it was ever allowed to start. There was obviously going to be big problems this winter regardless of a new variant. Football shouldn't have been allowed to start without financing in place to replace the lost supporters. The EFL and NL have a lot to answer for, they have put the clubs at a huge risk of going out of business and I don't see any argument for football below the Championship having started with such an unpredictable situation.
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Poojah
January 19, 2021, 10:29am
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I find it a little bit uncomfortable willing the implosion of the National League season to reprieve us from a relegation predicament we shouldn't be facing had we gone about our business properly, however the situation is slightly different to wishing a club like Macclesfield into extinction. In fact, it's almost the opposite.

There's the obvious problem of the fixture pile-up, but that's not the main one. It seems that money that the league had expected to cover the second half of the season in the form of grants is actually only to be offered as loans, except in the extreme circumstances.

Given the very nature of these precarious times, clubs are understandably reluctant to take on debt and appear to be putting forward the argument that they would be financially better off abandoning the season and furloughing players and staff to save costs. If the season is cut short in the near future, it will most likely because it has been voted for by the club's themselves out of their best financial interest.

I think we'll have an answer in the coming days.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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TownSNAFU5
January 19, 2021, 10:30am
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There is a big storm coming with widespread flooding expected.  A number of lower-league matches are likely to be postponed this week.  Every little helps.  
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pontoonlew
January 19, 2021, 10:44am
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Whilst I don't want to see a side go bust for this, I'm quite happy to swallow my pride by hoping the league doesn't complete and we get a reprieve.

Given that the National League is in complete turmoil, there isn't a chance I want to be joining them next season and anything that happens to avoid that fate is good by me. Having some pride by accepting your fate is one thing but risking the future of our club for said pride is another thing altogether.
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louth_in_the_south
January 19, 2021, 5:05pm

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If the NL decide to abandon their season it actually helps preserve clubs at that level and below instead of forcing them to take financial kamikaze just to fulfill a season they should never have had to start if you ask me


Lower F5
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BobbyCummingsTackle
January 19, 2021, 5:11pm
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Would be harsh on the clubs doing well. I've got a mate who's a diehard Stockport fan and is convinced they'll be back in the league next season. He'd be gutted if the season ended prematurely. They might lose some decent players as well.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

PS that just came up in my random cliche generator, it seems to fit.


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davmariner
January 19, 2021, 6:05pm
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Fans of some clubs are genuinely worried about the future of their clubs so this goes beyond what happens this season. It sounds as if clubs were basically conned into starting the season, having been assured of financial support with the goalposts now having been moved. Clubs are now expected to saddle themselves with loans.

Sounds as if there’s a real chance that they could end the season this week.


Up The Mariners!
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barralad
January 19, 2021, 6:08pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


I think it is pretty sad that some are hoping that another League has to shut down and that professional footballers aren't allowed to play the sport they love just to save our skins.


This with bells on...


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
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arryarryarry
January 19, 2021, 6:23pm
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Quoted from DB


I sympathise with them but it is Town who I am bothered about. I don't remember any sympathy for us, or Notts County, when we dropped into the national league as both are 'elder' clubs and founders of the FA etc.

If it's us or them, then can stay where they are till next season.


Erm.............what the frig are you on about, what the effing hell as being an "elder" club got to do with it, we went down because we were crap, nothing else, no Covid, no foreign chairman not paying players, why the fooking hell should other clubs have had sympathy for us?
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arryarryarry
January 19, 2021, 6:25pm
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Quoted from barralad


This with bells on...


Now that very rarely happens, I'm quite overcome.
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forza ivano
January 19, 2021, 6:31pm

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only 2 out of the 7 National League games go ahead tonight.


The suspension idea is really a face saving exercise for the National League Board - kicks the can down the road a little
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DB
January 19, 2021, 6:38pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


Erm.............what the frig are you on about, what the effing hell as being an "elder" club got to do with it, we went down because we were crap, nothing else, no Covid, no foreign chairman not paying players, why the fooking hell should other clubs have had sympathy for us?


So why should we have sympathy with the national league. I believe you said :-

"I think it is pretty sad that some are hoping that another League has to shut down and that professional footballers aren't allowed to play the sport they love just to save our skins."

1 question - Is your allegiance to Grimsby Town or not?


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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arryarryarry
January 19, 2021, 6:54pm
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Quoted from DB


So why should we have sympathy with the national league. I believe you said :-

"I think it is pretty sad that some are hoping that another League has to shut down and that professional footballers aren't allowed to play the sport they love just to save our skins."

1 question - Is your allegiance to Grimsby Town or not?


Does the 'D' stand for male private?

I think it is sad that people are hoping that another League has to cancel its season so that we stay up.

As regards my allegiance to Grimsby Town. I have been a supporter for over 55 years, I have never missed a home game because I didn't want to be there.

If we are relegated it will be because we have signed a load of crap players and haven't got enough points. If the NL is cancelled or the EFL is cancelled and we stay up that is fair enough but to wish that is pretty petty.
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bawarmy
January 19, 2021, 7:08pm
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We are bottom of the league as I type so I would take the National league voiding. Saying that  there’s nothing to say we will finish bottom two if we continue. So let them finish and let the Grimsby grit shine.
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Mariner_09
January 19, 2021, 7:17pm
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We need to remember that everyone else immediately above us is also garbage. It will take 2-3 better players and we'll survive.


I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
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DB
January 19, 2021, 7:26pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


Does the 'D' stand for male private?

I think it is sad that people are hoping that another League has to cancel its season so that we stay up.

As regards my allegiance to Grimsby Town. I have been a supporter for over 55 years, I have never missed a home game because I didn't want to be there.

If we are relegated it will be because we have signed a load of crap players and haven't got enough points. If the NL is cancelled or the EFL is cancelled and we stay up that is fair enough but to wish that is pretty petty.


Your personal comments are very demeaning and I can add to your 55 years. The reason Town is in this mess is solely down to 2 people F & H the reason of which have been listed many times on this site.

While I admire your reasoning for football to be judge of a league I don't recall a fist full of managers shouting Covid, Covid we can't  play football because of covid. F & H destroyed any hope of Town playing football as we know it before a ball was kicked; and points on the board.

And their is no point in us trying to score points against each other. You are fully entitled to your view on this subject, which I respect; likewise you should respect the my view and others who want Town to stay up, regardless of how.

UTM


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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forza ivano
January 20, 2021, 5:52pm

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GollyGTFC
January 20, 2021, 6:00pm

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Quoted from forza ivano


So the options are...

1) Saddle your club with debt.
2) Saddle the league with debt and then clubs get nothing from the league anytime soon.
3) Suspend the season (which is code work for abandon because if they stop through lack of funds there's no way it would restart anytime soon).

Whichever way they go it's probably a good time for a forward thinking league club to try and buy some of the best young talent in the National League (you know how Peterborough have been doing for years).
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lew chaterleys lover
January 20, 2021, 6:34pm
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Quoted from Mariner_09
We need to remember that everyone else immediately above us is also garbage. It will take 2-3 better players and we'll survive.


Other garbage teams will do that as well though, won't they?

We aren't the only ones desperate to get out of trouble. We cannot mount an attack let alone score enough goals to win a game.

I am not optimistic at all; I had hoped that we would have got more players in by now to give us a chance, with whoever is pulling the financial strings well aware we might actually need to shell out a bit of cash to get our number one targets.

I have only seen one team worse than us in terms of overall performance - Scunny - and we are asking a lot to improve sufficiently to be safe.
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Lincoln Mariner 56
January 20, 2021, 6:45pm
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Would concur that to get the right quality players in we may need to pay transfer fees for a number of them and as we know the Conference has some excellent players who will at the present time have concerns over their futures as will their respective clubs.

Let’s be honest if we consider the income we will lose by going out the league we must be willing to spend a significant sum to try and ensure this doesn’t happen.
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Fillipe Noche
January 20, 2021, 6:54pm
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In the event that the National League chooses option 2, it has far reaching consequences.

Option 2 involves the National League taking on the loan and the liability for that loan. Subsequently then distributing this loan to member clubs by way of grants that do not need to be repaid.

But the National League intends to repay this by holding back future central funding that the NL member clubs would have got. So essentially clubs would be voting to take money now, that they would have got later. Just to enable them to finish the season.

What will they do in the future when a big part of their central funding is held back? Back to square one.

What if central funding changes in the future?

Will the FA even be happy with the NL for holding back central funding to repay government loans, that ordinarily should be passed on to clubs,

Here is the biggie though. If they choose option 2 with the significantly reduced future central funding payments, this has an affect on clubs that are promoted or relegated to the National League. Imagine if that’s us, relegated and having to cope with reduced central funding because of the votes of member clubs in the NL prior to our arrival.

In the event that they choose option 2, there will be moves from the EFL to deny promotion/relegation from EFL/NL. Why would any EFL club want to welcome any NL clubs when their fellow EFL clubs risk dropping into a league with reduced funding.

Interesting 48 hours ahead
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pontoonlew
January 20, 2021, 7:02pm
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If they chose option 2 and we get relegated, surely the two promoted teams get off without consequences and we’d effectively be saddled with their debt by means of reduced funding from the league?
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davmariner
January 20, 2021, 7:09pm
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Up The Mariners!
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ginnywings
January 20, 2021, 7:14pm

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Quoted from pontoonlew
If they chose option 2 and we get relegated, surely the two promoted teams get off without consequences and we’d effectively be saddled with their debt by means of reduced funding from the league?


I would assume the relegated clubs would still get the parachute payments and if it happens to be us, coupled with our fan base, we would be the Man Utd of the National League. Should help in getting straight back out.
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pontoonlew
January 20, 2021, 7:27pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


I would assume the relegated clubs would still get the parachute payments and if it happens to be us, coupled with our fan base, we would be the Man Utd of the National League. Should help in getting straight back out.


Great to see people have learnt the lessons that Non League taught us last time
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forza ivano
January 20, 2021, 7:36pm

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so, the Covid/Conference issue is turned from being a potential lifeline to a potential millstone........

hope to God Hursty has had some successful phone calls!
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Gaffer58
January 20, 2021, 7:47pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


I would assume the relegated clubs would still get the parachute payments and if it happens to be us, coupled with our fan base, we would be the Man Utd of the National League. Should help in getting straight back out.


We we’re not “the Man U” last time, I think each season down there we had something like the 4/5 biggest salary. There again we were being run then by the old skinflint in those days.
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ginnywings
January 20, 2021, 7:55pm

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I had my tongue firmly in my cheek.
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Lincoln Mariner 56
January 20, 2021, 8:02pm
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Taking Option 2 would in my opinion be short sighted as the clubs may be repaying this debt for many a season. It would appear to be more sensible to have one null and void season rather than have a significant reduction in income for the foreseeable future.

However, I accept if town were in Torquay or Stockport’s position I would be willing the competition to continue, just get the feeling there will be no get out of jail free cards coming our way. Come on Hursty let’s have some signings as I think most fans anxiety levels rise another notch with each day that passes with no incoming players.
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Cod Cheeks
January 20, 2021, 9:08pm
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What if the NL gets a reprieve for a year and we go down, then it folds.
Not so good
Football means so much to each and every one of those clubs and I wish them well.

I wouldn’t miss the premiership mind you
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paramariner
January 21, 2021, 2:27pm
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SPORTFOOTBALL
National League clubs expected to press for season suspension amid debt concerns


1 hour ago

A
majority of National League clubs are expected to reluctantly push for the early curtailment of the season after being told loans would be the only source of government funding available.

In conference calls on Wednesday with Mark Ives, the League's interim general manager, clubs were given three options: apply for individual loans; share a central loan paid to and distributed by the League; or suspend the campaign.

Clubs were asked to relay their preferred choice to the League by Wednesday night, with the board hoping to meet on Thursday to review the feedback before further discussions with clubs.


The League favours continuing the season but a majority of the 67 clubs across the three divisions are thought to be unwilling or unable to take on debt.


One chairman told Standard Sport: "Debt is not an option. No one likes the suspension but it's the only position because the other two are not palatable."


Another said: "The first two options aren't options. Applying for loans is contrary to everything we understood when we started the season. It really is a non-starter."

Clubs were given £10million of government grants to begin the campaign but that funding has now run out, with the only option on the table £11m worth of loans from the Department of Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS), which would be repayable at 2 per cent over 10 years.


Many clubs feel betrayed after being assured either funding or the return of fans when they agreed to restart the season behind closed doors in September. The DCMS has insisted it never promised further grants.

One chairman said: "The fault lies with the National League, solely. The League's position was 'play at all costs'. There was an assurance from the former chief exec that the league would not begin without fans, which everyone agreed to, but they panicked and backtracked on that.


"Everything since has been dealing with the fallout from that initial poor decision."




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GrimRob
January 21, 2021, 2:51pm

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Feel for Torquay and Gloucester who have big leads in their divisions.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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IlkleyMariner
January 21, 2021, 2:55pm
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Looks like the majority of non league reporters think the season will be scrapped for National Leagues, although some favour suspension, then continued later in the year to conclude by May 2022.

Either of these approaches would result in no relegation from league 2 this season!
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LocalLadGTFC
January 21, 2021, 2:58pm
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One's man loss is another man's gain, we should have the lines buzzing of most the top clubs as there's some serious talent at Stockport, Torquay, Sutton and Hartlepool etc
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GrimRob
January 21, 2021, 2:58pm

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There is talk on suspending Step 2 and keeping Step 1 which wouldn't help us!


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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DB
January 21, 2021, 3:20pm
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Do we know when the decision is?


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2021, 3:21pm

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Quoted from GrimRob
There is talk on suspending Step 2 and keeping Step 1 which wouldn't help us!


Firstly suspending is abandoning. If they stop they start again until crowds are back in and that won't happen this season.

The problem is that as soon as Step 2 is abandoned every club who can't win promotion in Step 1 will automatically want to abandon also. Step 1 can't stop if Step 2 continues but as soon as Step 2 stops they can do what they like. Torquay will definitely want to continue. Hartlepool, Sutton & Stockport will be happy to continue. But who else is going to want to saddle themselves with debt or sign up to 10 years of reduced income to play on when there's no relegation & those teams chances of promotion rank from unlikely to no chance whatsoever. They just won't want to carry on.

So my prediction is a domino effect. Step 2 abandoned and that triggers the majority of Step 1 clubs to want to stop also.
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ginnywings
January 21, 2021, 4:24pm

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What it does show is that the clubs were badly informed by the NL into starting a season they never would have without the guarantees they were given. Those clubs would have made signings and took staff off furlough: staff  and players they can no longer afford with money running out fast. It's a big ask for them to saddle themselves with debt when the majority of them have nothing to play for. That's without factoring in the backlog of games some have already built up, to the point where they will have to be playing at least twice a week just to catch up and the impact that will have on players and travel costs.

We need to keep out of this league at all costs, looking at how badly it has been run.
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ginnywings
January 21, 2021, 5:03pm

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National League South team Concorde Rangers have refused to carry on playing. Think this could be the first of many.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sp.....se-continue-playing/
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GrimRob
January 21, 2021, 5:57pm

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If the NL is abandoned then will L2 fans pay a tenner to watch every game? Obviously the ones at the top should but for those at the bottom they are just playing for pride.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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Mariner93er
January 21, 2021, 6:19pm
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Staying up courtesy of the NL being suspended won’t fill me with any pride, but with the way it sounds like the NL have handled the situation, it would be an even bigger relief not to be down there. Hopefully if the NL is suspended/abondoned, we’ll still finish outside the relegation places as it’ll feel like we’ve cheated teams like Torquay.
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2021, 6:27pm

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If the National League is abandoned in the next week it will distort the end of the L2 season. I imagine plenty of L2 clubs not in the promotion battle will cut their squad to the bare bones for the rest of the season safe in the knowledge they can't go down. Will totally distort who will finish in the bottom 2.
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Abdul19
January 21, 2021, 6:34pm

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That was our approach to the final 46 games of 08/09


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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ginnywings
January 21, 2021, 6:39pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC
If the National League is abandoned in the next week it will distort the end of the L2 season. I imagine plenty of L2 clubs not in the promotion battle will cut their squad to the bare bones for the rest of the season safe in the knowledge they can't go down. Will totally distort who will finish in the bottom 2.


Was thinking the same and maybe that is why there doesn't seem to be a lot of transfers going on, and those that are seem predominantly to be loans.

Of course we have grants and not loans as they do in the NL, so not as badly off in that regard.
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2021, 6:41pm

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Quoted from ginnywings


Was thinking the same and maybe that is why there doesn't seem to be a lot of transfers going on, and those that are seem predominantly to be loans.

Of course we have grants and not loans as they do in the NL, so not as badly off in that regard.


I mean if Scunthorpe finish bottom and stay up we'd never let them forget it, but I wouldn't count it as a real bottom finish.
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ginnywings
January 21, 2021, 6:47pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I mean if Scunthorpe finish bottom and stay up we'd never let them forget it, but I wouldn't count it as a real bottom finish.


If we stay up by any means, I don't care where Scunny finish.
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Mikey_345
January 21, 2021, 7:11pm
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Also opens the door for some league clubs (like ourselves) getting some of the leagues top talent at a reduced price.

Whilst I will take whatever way possible to stay out of that excrement show of a league, all options look like they will be to the detriment of the game as a whole.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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forza ivano
January 21, 2021, 7:21pm

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latest from Ollie Bayliss - at least 18 out of 66 wanting to suspend the season, so far

https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1352334839719063554
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toontown
January 21, 2021, 7:25pm
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Quoted from Abdul19
That was our approach to the final 46 games of 08/09


And that was definitely our approach to this season!
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forza ivano
January 21, 2021, 7:49pm

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i had been wondering what Hurst in particular, and other Div 2 managers in general, might do, if the National league was suspended tomorrow.
Would you be able to ,say, furlough the best paid players and then play the youngsters until the season's end? Doing that you'd save a shedload of money and give the youngsters the opportunity and experience to try and win a first team place for 21-22.
Alternatively would you just soldier on with the present bunch, so saving yourself having to make 'firefighting' signings and give you a chance to work on bringing in long term targets in the summer?
or would you go 'for broke' by splashing a bit of cash and trying to bring some players in now who would then be able to hit the ground running in August?
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Rodley Mariner
January 21, 2021, 8:00pm
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I don't see how you can furlough a professional footballer under contract. Furlough is an alternative to redundancy but we can't make them redundant as they have a fixed term contract. I think you'd be inviting considerable scrutiny if you furloughed all your senior pros and played the kids.
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TownSNAFU5
January 21, 2021, 8:05pm
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Reports by a York fan that 12 NL teams have asked for the season to be suspended/abandoned.

The case just continues to get stronger.
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DB
January 21, 2021, 8:06pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
i had been wondering what Hurst in particular, and other Div 2 managers in general, might do, if the National league was suspended tomorrow.
Would you be able to ,say, furlough the best paid players and then play the youngsters until the season's end? Doing that you'd save a shedload of money and give the youngsters the opportunity and experience to try and win a first team place for 21-22.
Alternatively would you just soldier on with the present bunch, so saving yourself having to make 'firefighting' signings and give you a chance to work on bringing in long term targets in the summer?
or would you go 'for broke' by splashing a bit of cash and trying to bring some players in now who would then be able to hit the ground running in August?


Interesting scenario Forza I think Hursty would consult with the Three Amigos and see what their reaction would be and, given no relegation, how much cash would be available now. How much for the summer. My own preference would be cherry pick the best of the National players and top up in the summer to fill any gaps.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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ginnywings
January 21, 2021, 8:21pm

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Quoted from Rodley Mariner
I don't see how you can furlough a professional footballer under contract. Furlough is an alternative to redundancy but we can't make them redundant as they have a fixed term contract. I think you'd be inviting considerable scrutiny if you furloughed all your senior pros and played the kids.


Think you're right. They voluntarily took a 25% pay cut last time. Plus we have received the Prem grant, so we should be ok.

Besides, if the EFL continues, we have no recourse to furlough anyone.
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2021, 8:30pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Reports by a York fan that 12 NL teams have asked for the season to be suspended/abandoned.

The case just continues to get stronger.


That's just 12 of the 22 National League North teams. They have written an open letter stating their position.

4 of the 21 National League South teams are refusing to fulfill any of their upcoming fixtures.

That's 16 out of 43 or 37% of Step 2 clubs who have already made public their opinion for suspending (abandoning) the season. Only 3 have come out in support of either of the other 2 options (all for league taking loan and giving out grants to clubs). 2 clubs have rejected all 3 options.

As I predicted, there is silence from the Step 1 clubs as they wait to see what happens at Step 2.

Looking increasingly like the season will be suspended (abandoned).
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2021, 8:36pm

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Quoted from ginnywings


Think you're right. They voluntarily took a 25% pay cut last time. Plus we have received the Prem grant, so we should be ok.

Besides, if the EFL continues, we have no recourse to furlough anyone.


Furlough isn't just for those who would otherwise be made redundant. A company can furlough anyone. An employee can also request to be furloughed. An example: a company might choose to furlough a pregnant employee as they deem her to be at significant risk.

Everyone seems to be missing the human aspect in all this. Some people (even professional footballers) might be quite happy to be furloughed given what is going on in the country.
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Mikey_345
January 21, 2021, 9:13pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


That's just 12 of the 22 National League North teams. They have written an open letter stating their position.

4 of the 21 National League South teams are refusing to fulfill any of their upcoming fixtures.

That's 16 out of 43 or 37% of Step 2 clubs who have already made public their opinion for suspending (abandoning) the season. Only 3 have come out in support of either of the other 2 options (all for league taking loan and giving out grants to clubs). 2 clubs have rejected all 3 options.

As I predicted, there is silence from the Step 1 clubs as they wait to see what happens at Step 2.

Looking increasingly like the season will be suspended (abandoned).


The 12 teams make clear they want a suspension to allow time to find a solution and avoid null and voiding the season.

Step 3-6 have the option to restart in August which I can see more and more being the way 1 & 2 May end up going.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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louth_in_the_south
January 21, 2021, 9:15pm

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I doubt any L2 player would want to be furloughed as it would mean they can’t train with the squad as that would be classed as their employment which would have a knock on effect for their fitness  for next season, especially if they’re on a 1 year contract ?


Lower F5
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GollyGTFC
January 21, 2021, 9:32pm

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Quoted from Mikey_345


The 12 teams make clear they want a suspension to allow time to find a solution and avoid null and voiding the season.

Step 3-6 have the option to restart in August which I can see more and more being the way 1 & 2 May end up going.


I think the idea is to suspend the league and then...

If crowds are allowed in August null and void this season and start again.

If crowds aren't allowed back until end of the year they could theoretically continue this season and complete it in May 2022.

Personally I think the 2nd option is pie in the sky.
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louth_in_the_south
January 21, 2021, 9:59pm

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Surely if a few teams in the NL follow suit and refuse to play then the whole league collapses and makes it nearly impossible for it to carry on as a competition?


Lower F5
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
January 21, 2021, 10:03pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I think the idea is to suspend the league and then...

If crowds are allowed in August null and void this season and start again.

If crowds aren't allowed back until end of the year they could theoretically continue this season and complete it in May 2022.

Personally I think the 2nd option is pie in the sky.


I’d be shocked if mass crowds can attend by Aug
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Gaffer58
January 21, 2021, 10:05pm
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Just our luck, the better players are now coming back from injury, 2 new players in this week, we beat scunny 3-0 on Saturday before going on a good run of winning games to finish comfortably mid table. Scunny and Stevenage finish bottom 2, but with no relegation they are saved.
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Jarmo.Is.God
January 22, 2021, 7:54am

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Maybe an unpopular opinion
But if we stay up, i don't care what happens to Scunny

Would be fun to see them struggle with non-league.
But they would be at home with the crowds they get etc....

But wouldn't mind them staying up either.
Give us fans something to look forward to, assuming we will be allowed in at some point in the future
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pontoonlew
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NLN/S suspended for 2 weeks..
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ska face
January 22, 2021, 12:50pm

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It’s happening boys, we’re nearly there. We might get away with it.
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ginnywings
January 22, 2021, 12:59pm

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davmariner
January 22, 2021, 1:08pm
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Looks like National League Premier will carry on as a majority of step 1 clubs voted to continue.


Up The Mariners!
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GollyGTFC
January 22, 2021, 2:30pm

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Quoted from davmariner
Looks like National League Premier will carry on as a majority of step 1 clubs voted to continue.


Where have you read that. It''s far from my understanding.
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Mariner93er
January 22, 2021, 2:57pm
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Surely the option of a national league grant (option 2 I think) would have an impact on any teams relegated to the NL. If they’re essentially saying teams get money now but then there’ll be cuts to central funding, the teams promoted won’t be impacted because NL funding won’t be applicable but the teams relegated will be?
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ska face
January 22, 2021, 3:05pm

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Given the money they’ve already spunked on their mates, you’d think the govt would just give them the £11m grant and allow them to carry on. Surely that would be cheaper than furloughing all players and all staff for the next 7 months?
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davmariner
January 22, 2021, 3:10pm
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Up The Mariners!
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davmariner
January 22, 2021, 3:11pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


Where have you read that. It''s far from my understanding.


&

https://twitter.com/thomasfeaheny/status/1352607342899113984?s=21


Up The Mariners!
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GollyGTFC
January 22, 2021, 3:27pm

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Quoted from davmariner


I don't think that's necessarily 100% accurate. I think most clubs are awaiting developments and actively lobbying their local MPs, but resigned to stopping unless the government u-turns and gives them grants rather than loans.

That's because North & South teams (43 in total) will never vote for the league taking the loan & distributing to clubs as grants. They overwhelmingly want to stop for safety reasons & to protect future income. Even if all 23 National League teams wanted that option they will not get the required majority of the 66 member clubs to make it happen.

That leaves 2 options for the 23 National League teams. Take the government loan themselves (non-starter) or suspend the season. Faced with that choice the majority will vote to suspend the season.

In reality there are 2 options: Government u-turn or National League suspended (abandoned).
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davmariner
January 22, 2021, 3:32pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I don't think that's necessarily 100% accurate. I think most clubs are awaiting developments and actively lobbying their local MPs, but resigned to stopping unless the government u-turns and gives them grants rather than loans.

That's because North & South teams (43 in total) will never vote for the league taking the loan & distributing to clubs as grants. They overwhelmingly want to stop for safety reasons & to protect future income. Even if all 23 National League teams wanted that option they will not get the required majority of the 66 member clubs to make it happen.

That leaves 2 options for the 23 National League teams. Take the government loan themselves (non-starter) or suspend the season. Faced with that choice the majority will vote to suspend the season.

In reality there are 2 options: Government u-turn or National League suspended (abandoned).


Or I guess the option of the National League taking the loans and distributing grants to clubs. Not ideal but it seems NL clubs are more open to this than NLS and NLN clubs.


Up The Mariners!
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BobbyCummingsTackle
January 22, 2021, 3:44pm
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Quoted from davmariner


Or I guess the option of the National League taking the loans and distributing grants to clubs. Not ideal but it seems NL clubs are more open to this than NLS and NLN clubs.


Can't see that happening, a lot of National League teams are run very close to the wire financially and taking on debt on behalf of other clubs would not be sensible. If I was a director of a National League club I wouldn't even consider it.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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GollyGTFC
January 22, 2021, 3:50pm

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Quoted from davmariner


Or I guess the option of the National League taking the loans and distributing grants to clubs. Not ideal but it seems NL clubs are more open to this than NLS and NLN clubs.


But like I said, that won't happen because the North & South clubs will out vote the National League clubs. The league taking a loan is a decision for the entire league (66 clubs), not just the 23 in the top division. The other 43 aren't going to vote for reduced income for 10 years when they overwhelmingly want to stop.
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RichMariner
January 22, 2021, 3:53pm
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What an absolute mess our beautiful game is in.

"Start the season. If any financial hardship arises from extended or unexpected lockdowns, we'll give you the cash to see the season through."

"Sounds great but, erm, that cash... will it be a grant or a loan?"

Seems outrageous that something so fundamental wasn't cleared up before everyone started playing football. Perhaps we were all naive in thinking there wouldn't be another lockdown of this magnitude.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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forza ivano
January 22, 2021, 3:58pm

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GrimRob
January 22, 2021, 4:46pm

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The NL prem teams are a different animal to most of the NLS and NLN teams which are overwhelmingly part-time. So I wouldn't be surprised if they went different ways.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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Youngy
January 22, 2021, 10:50pm
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Latest news is that the loan offer seems to be off the table, league suspension looking more and more likely.
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Marinerdeano
January 22, 2021, 11:19pm
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January 22, 2021, 11:38pm
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Wow


Up The Mariners!
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GrimRob
January 23, 2021, 8:14am

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It will cost the government more to furlough the staff including players than it would to continue. I wouldn't bank on a u-turn not happening


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2021, 8:31am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I don't think that's necessarily 100% accurate. I think most clubs are awaiting developments and actively lobbying their local MPs, but resigned to stopping unless the government u-turns and gives them grants rather than loans.

That's because North & South teams (43 in total) will never vote for the league taking the loan & distributing to clubs as grants. They overwhelmingly want to stop for safety reasons & to protect future income. Even if all 23 National League teams wanted that option they will not get the required majority of the 66 member clubs to make it happen.

That leaves 2 options for the 23 National League teams. Take the government loan themselves (non-starter) or suspend the season. Faced with that choice the majority will vote to suspend the season.

In reality there are 2 options: Government u-turn or National League suspended (abandoned).


Quoted from GollyGTFC


But like I said, that won't happen because the North & South clubs will out vote the National League clubs. The league taking a loan is a decision for the entire league (66 clubs), not just the 23 in the top division. The other 43 aren't going to vote for reduced income for 10 years when they overwhelmingly want to stop.


This guy talks a lot of sense. Seems to have nailed it.
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Heisenberg
January 23, 2021, 9:27am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC




This guy talks a lot of sense. Seems to have nailed it.


Even if you do say so yourself!
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MeanwoodMariner
January 23, 2021, 9:28am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC




This guy talks a lot of sense. Seems to have nailed it.


I think what you say makes sense. The problem is they don't always act in a way that makes sense. All the leagues were abandoned in March because it wasn't viable to play without crowds and there was a pandemic in full swing. In September nothing had changed but everyone started up again anyway.

All the ex-league teams in the NL are understandably very keen to have a shot of going up this year. They will push for any way to complete the season - even if "complete" doesn't necessarily mean that they play everyone twice.
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ginnywings
January 23, 2021, 9:38am

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If only the Government had a history of u-turns, they would have some hope.  

After years of waiting for a new, forward thinking board, we will probably see the National League come to a conclusion, and us relegated, to be replaced by Notts County as the final ignominy of the Fenty era.
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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2021, 10:23am

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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


I think what you say makes sense. The problem is they don't always act in a way that makes sense. All the leagues were abandoned in March because it wasn't viable to play without crowds and there was a pandemic in full swing. In September nothing had changed but everyone started up again anyway.


No. The league stopped because it wasn't safe. When protocols had been worked out and agreed and adjustments had been made to club training grounds and stadia (changing rooms etc...) the leagues recommenced.

If the PL could have just carried on in March with no crowds they would have done.
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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2021, 10:29am

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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


All the ex-league teams in the NL are understandably very keen to have a shot of going up this year. They will push for any way to complete the season - even if "complete" doesn't necessarily mean that they play everyone twice.


The EFL will not accept any sort of truncated National League this season. Not a chance. All 3 EFL divisions will complete in full. And the NL will be required to do the same or there will be no promotion or relegation.

Also, remember EFL rules require a club losing it's membership (i.e. being relegated from League 2) has a league to play in. If crowds aren't back by August then the NL will not start and the relegated clubs won't have a league to play in.

Therefore the EFL will demand a full completion on the NL this season & a 100% cast iron guarantee that next season's NL will start on time & be completed in full. Very unlikely the former will happen or proof of the latter could be offered.
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marinerdazza
January 23, 2021, 10:30am
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I fully expect a u turn. The latest statement is obviously designed to push this.
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Abdul19
January 23, 2021, 10:35am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC




This guy talks a lot of sense. Seems to have nailed it.


🎺


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2021, 10:38am

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Quoted from marinerdazza
I fully expect a u turn. The latest statement is obviously designed to push this.


3 million people have fallen through the cracks of the government's various job retention schemes and grants for self employed people. It's nearly a year in to this mess and they haven't u-turned to help those people. What makes you think they are going to backtrack and help 66 National League clubs?

How this government works is they using polling companies to check how policies are effecting their polling numbers in key constituencies. If it's damaging them they will then do a u-turn. The National League fiasco won't effect their numbers. Therefore I would be amazed if they did a u-turn.
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davmariner
January 23, 2021, 10:42am
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Quoted from GrimRob
It will cost the government more to furlough the staff including players than it would to continue. I wouldn't bank on a u-turn not happening


But then would it be good politics of them to give taxpayer money to keep a football season going and arguably risking spreading the virus even further as they don’t have testing.

It’s hardly a high profile Marcus Rashford style campaign that has forced u-turns in previous months.


Up The Mariners!
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MeanwoodMariner
January 23, 2021, 10:50am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


The EFL will not accept any sort of truncated National League this season. Not a chance. All 3 EFL divisions will complete in full. And the NL will be required to do the same or there will be no promotion or relegation.

Also, remember EFL rules require a club losing it's membership (i.e. being relegated from League 2) has a league to play in. If crowds aren't back by August then the NL will not start and the relegated clubs won't have a league to play in.

Therefore the EFL will demand a full completion on the NL this season & a 100% cast iron guarantee that next season's NL will start on time & be completed in full. Very unlikely the former will happen or proof of the latter could be offered.


I completely agree that there needs to be a league to relegate the teams to. However, I'm not convinced that the FL will reject promotion from the NL based on a truncated season. Barrow and Harrogate are here after all. If the NL conclude their season in any sort of form, eg. just playing everyone else once, then they could put forward two teams to be promoted. The FL may reject them but there's at least a conversation to be had and I wouldn't bet much against them being admitted to the league.
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marinerdazza
January 23, 2021, 10:54am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


3 million people have fallen through the cracks of the government's various job retention schemes and grants for self employed people. It's nearly a year in to this mess and they haven't u-turned to help those people. What makes you think they are going to backtrack and help 66 National League clubs?

How this government works is they using polling companies to check how policies are effecting their polling numbers in key constituencies. If it's damaging them they will then do a u-turn. The National League fiasco won't effect their numbers. Therefore I would be amazed if they did a u-turn.


Don’t get me wrong, I hope you’re right. I’m just very pessimistic at the moment.
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DB
January 23, 2021, 10:56am
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I can only quote Hurst'y words about Town which refer to the national set up "It's a mess".


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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GollyGTFC
January 23, 2021, 11:00am

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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


I completely agree that there needs to be a league to relegate the teams to. However, I'm not convinced that the FL will reject promotion from the NL based on a truncated season. Barrow and Harrogate are here after all. If the NL conclude their season in any sort of form, eg. just playing everyone else once, then they could put forward two teams to be promoted. The FL may reject them but there's at least a conversation to be had and I wouldn't bet much against them being admitted to the league.


Last season the National League completed as much of their season as the EFL did at L1 & L2 level. The EFL will 100% expect the same this season. And "the same" this season means completing the season in full.

Remember last season there was no promotion and relegation between National League North/South & the 4 "Premier Divisions" below. And that will be repeated this season. Why should the NL expect 2 promotion places when they haven't promoted any sides into their own league for 2 years?
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MeanwoodMariner
January 23, 2021, 11:11am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


Last season the National League completed as much of their season as the EFL did at L1 & L2 level. The EFL will 100% expect the same this season. And "the same" this season means completing the season in full.


They accepted 2 teams from a league that didn't complete last season. I just don't get why you're so certain that they have to complete as much as the FL to get 2 promotion places again.
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ginnywings
January 23, 2021, 12:07pm

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https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/sport/national-league-rule-out-loan-options-241244/

This article suggests National League teams won't be able to go much longer without grants, of which there doesn't seem to be any switch by the DCMS as yet.
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TownSNAFU5
January 23, 2021, 12:49pm
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As long as the Prem keeps going to distract people and improve morale.  It is also very high profile.  The Gov don’t care about very low-level football.  There are much bigger fish to fry.
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Gaffer58
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Said this before,just cannot believe all those executives that run the different leagues did not have any agreed plans for what the different scenarios would be before the season started. That way everyone knows where they stand.
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IlkleyMariner
January 23, 2021, 5:30pm
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Quoted from Gaffer58
Said this before,just cannot believe all those executives that run the different leagues did not have any agreed plans for what the different scenarios would be before the season started. That way everyone knows where they stand.


Think you are assuming a degree of competence not previously shown in these people.
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TownSNAFU5
January 23, 2021, 5:35pm
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Never rule out self-interest in football management.
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louth_in_the_south
January 24, 2021, 8:07am

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Anyone know when the vote to save GTFC takes place ?
Fentys legacy vote I’ll call it .


Lower F5
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ginnywings
January 24, 2021, 10:53am

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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
Anyone know when the vote to save GTFC takes place ?
Fentys legacy vote I’ll call it .


"In the coming days" was the phrase I saw in a couple of articles. It will have to be soon I would have thought.

It's down to the DCMS whether they will turn loans into grants, but I can't see why they would as they will then be asked by everyone else from the other sports they cover why football is getting special treatment. I think Rugby League was given a loans package, not grants, and there are others out there struggling for funding.

If they don't get the grants they need, some clubs will want to soldier on, but most won't.
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ginnywings
January 25, 2021, 10:26pm

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There was a scheduled meeting of the NL today to discuss the situation according to reports, but no news forthcoming yet. Suspect there is some lobbying of MP's going on.
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DB
January 25, 2021, 10:34pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
There was a scheduled meeting of the NL today to discuss the situation according to reports, but no news forthcoming yet. Suspect there is some lobbying of MP's going on.


You're probably right, but I can't see the govt. moving from loans. They were reluctant in the first place to give grants, the govt. also tended to manipulate what they said after they've given hope to the NL


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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davmariner
January 25, 2021, 10:53pm
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IMHO a government u-turn is unlikely. If they were to u-turn it would also have implications on other sports that have had to accept loans such as Rugby League.


Up The Mariners!
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toontown
January 25, 2021, 11:37pm
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Quoted from davmariner
IMHO a government u-turn is unlikely. If they were to u-turn it would also have implications on other sports that have had to accept loans such as Rugby League.


Entirely selfishly I do hope you are right. Fingers crossed.
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ginnywings
January 25, 2021, 11:38pm

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Quoted from davmariner
IMHO a government u-turn is unlikely. If they were to u-turn it would also have implications on other sports that have had to accept loans such as Rugby League.


That was my thoughts too and not just Rugby. There are loads of other sports out there wanting financial backing. However, there is an argument that shutting down 66 football teams and associated staff will cost the government more than if they just gave them the 11 million in grants, and I think that is the point they will make. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
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DB
January 26, 2021, 12:16am
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Quoted from ginnywings


That was my thoughts too and not just Rugby. There are loads of other sports out there wanting financial backing. However, there is an argument that shutting down 66 football teams and associated staff will cost the government more than if they just gave them the 11 million in grants, and I think that is the point they will make. Guess we'll find out soon enough.


I wonder if the govt. will stick to their argument of let prem pay.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 10:13am

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Grassroots sport has been given another 50 million, so the Government may be feeling generous, or looking to gain back some popularity. Doesn't cover elite sport but maybe they are in a generous mood.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/55805241
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Mikey_345
January 26, 2021, 10:19am
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As the National League had themselves designated 'elite' I think the chances of more funding is remote unless its loans, which NL have ruled out. For example why would we not be entitled to the same, as we are only a division above.

Plus that opens a can of worms with other sports such as Rugby League etc. Cannot see this Government caving - there is enough money in the game that could be filtered so why should tax payers foot the bill?

Lower leagues and grassroots are a different argument.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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TownSNAFU5
January 26, 2021, 10:34am
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The Government can say that they have given an extra £50 Million to sport.  That meets their remit and something that they can fall back on if challenged by NL football.
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 10:54am

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Quoted from Mikey_345
As the National League had themselves designated 'elite' I think the chances of more funding is remote unless its loans, which NL have ruled out. For example why would we not be entitled to the same, as we are only a division above.

Plus that opens a can of worms with other sports such as Rugby League etc. Cannot see this Government caving - there is enough money in the game that could be filtered so why should tax payers foot the bill?

Lower leagues and grassroots are a different argument.


Our grants came from the Prem, so different scenario.

I think I'm right in saying that the money received by Rugby and other sports were loans and not grants, so it seems the NL were lucky in that the initial rescue package for them was grants.

A lot of these decisions were taken at a time when it was expected that crowds would be returning before too long, with the covid rate dropping, but then the second wave hit and all that went out of the window.

The argument now seems to be that the clubs were led to believe any further monies would also be grants and not loans and they were badly advised.
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DB
January 26, 2021, 4:40pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
Grassroots sport has been given another 50 million, so the Government may be feeling generous, or looking to gain back some popularity. Doesn't cover elite sport but maybe they are in a generous mood.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/55805241


It also mentions part of a 10 year plan and seems to cover many sports. It doesn't appear to be loans for the National League for a bail out.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Gaffer58
January 26, 2021, 4:55pm
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I see the National Polo Organisation, Grouse Shooting Ltd and Ferrari Drivers Club are rubbing their hands together awaiting the new funds.
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Marinerdeano
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forza ivano
January 26, 2021, 8:05pm

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https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1354153493007921154

latest from ollie Bayliss. fingers crossed.....
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 8:11pm

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Quoted from Marinerdeano


Sounds like a right old mess. The National League chiefs have made a massive member up over the funding and clubs decided to start this season based on flawed information.
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Marinerdeano
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Quoted from ginnywings


Sounds like a right old mess. The National League chiefs have made a massive member up over the funding and clubs decided to start this season based on flawed information.


It seems like in hindsight the league should have never have started, although I guess there was an assumption fans would be back before Christmas. It was worth a try but like you say, too casual and naeive to to not have key details in writing.
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gtfc98
January 26, 2021, 8:38pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1354153493007921154

latest from ollie Bayliss. fingers crossed.....


Sounds like it won't finish. First and foremost I hope that all of the clubs get through this. It feels wrong for us to stay in the league on this basis but flipping hell I'll take it!


No longer Sick of the BlueSquare  
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lew chaterleys lover
January 26, 2021, 8:46pm
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I hope they make a decision tomorrow.

If their season is null and void, then that will have a massive bearing on our transfer policy in this window, assuming it means we will be safe.

We could turn our attention to next season and just write this season off, we would not need any stop-gap signings (JLL etc) and we could look forward for a change once the takeover is rubber-stamped.
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Mikey_345
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Honestly don’t see how it’s viable without funding. DMCS aren’t caving and the fact they have this meeting and no further funding has been leaked suggests there isn’t any.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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Hagrid
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Not the way any of us want to stay up, but intercourse me id take it
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 8:52pm

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Only way we are likely to get a positive result any time soon.
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GrimRob
January 26, 2021, 8:53pm

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Luton's 30 point deduction was a gift from heaven but this would be a get out of jail free card of another order of magnitude because we still had to work for the 2009 reprieve.

The flip side is it would render the rest of the season completely meaningless for us. I am not sure the League 2 chairmen will be entirely happy as it will surely see less revenue coming in from fans not willing to pay a tenner when you can watch competitive games on TV.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 8:57pm

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Quoted from GrimRob
Luton's 30 point deduction was a gift from heaven but this would be a get out of jail free card of another order of magnitude because we still had to work for the 2009 reprieve.

The flip side is it would render the rest of the season completely meaningless for us. I am not sure the League 2 chairmen will be entirely happy as it will surely see less revenue coming in from fans not willing to pay a tenner when you can watch competitive games on TV.


It would please a few league 2 teams, us included, and Stevenage, who could be in line for 2 great escapes on the trot.
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LH
January 26, 2021, 9:01pm

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Nothing to play for? We could go for the record low points haul and stay up!
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It Bites
January 26, 2021, 9:03pm
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It was farcical to start the season . They must of known that fans wouldn't be allowed in en mass till at least sept 21 . If I knew it how come they didn't . I stated on here back in April that no fans would be in BP till September 21 at the earliest .
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Withnail
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I'll be surprised (but mightily relieved) if there's no relegation from League Two after this dog turd of a season, which has been an unmitigating disaster for us, from day 1.
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 9:10pm

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Quoted from It Bites
It was farcical to start the season . They must of known that fans wouldn't be allowed in en mass till at least sept 21 . If I knew it how come they didn't . I stated on here back in April that no fans would be in BP till September 21 at the earliest .


They did know that. The funding was to take them to the end of December. The problem arose when the second wave kicked in and the next lot of funding was in the form of loans and not grants as the NL bods led them to believe.

Poor governance.
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Epworth Mariner
January 26, 2021, 9:24pm
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55818377

Just released.......

The great escape is still on........
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GrimRob
January 26, 2021, 9:29pm

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So basically the government have paid £10m for half a football season in three divisions which is then basically wiped from the record books. They'll then have to pay even more to furlough the players and staff who would have played out the rest of the season and at least contributed to the football timeline.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 9:43pm

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Would be poetic if we were saved by 'loans'.
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KingstonMariner
January 26, 2021, 9:43pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
So basically the government have paid £10m for half a football season in three divisions which is then basically wiped from the record books. They'll then have to pay even more to furlough the players and staff who would have played out the rest of the season and at least contributed to the football timeline.


We know there is no compass of any kind in this government’s policy making. It seems they just follow whatever they were told last.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Mariner_09
January 26, 2021, 10:17pm
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I still think someone from somewhere will find this cash and the season will finish in the NL. It's just too good to be true if we are saved by that.

The hypothetical scenarios thereon are interesting to speculate about. One, the season becomes irrelevant for about 1/3 of the league and they'll all just be preparing for next season, players playing for contracts, no real necessity for results. Secondly, there will be a shed load of NL players who could be plucked for cheap if cash is that tight down there. Hopefully, Hursty with his knowledge of that level could cherry-pick some of the best ones for us, provided the takeover has gone through and we have a bigger budget than we've reckoned to have of late.

We obviously need to avoid a repeat of the reprieve we got last time. At least Hurst isn't Newell and his signings won't be akin to Barry Conlon!

If miraculously this happens I won't feel great about it because we would effectively have robbed Torquay of their L2 place but that's a small price to pay and I suspect it's our only hope. This is the worst group of players ever. It's worse than the one that nearly got us relegated 3 years ago and that was worse than the one that did get us relegated.


I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
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arryarryarry
January 26, 2021, 10:31pm
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Quoted from Mariner_09
I still think someone from somewhere will find this cash and the season will finish in the NL. It's just too good to be true if we are saved by that.

The hypothetical scenarios thereon are interesting to speculate about. One, the season becomes irrelevant for about 1/3 of the league and they'll all just be preparing for next season, players playing for contracts, no real necessity for results. Secondly, there will be a shed load of NL players who could be plucked for cheap if cash is that tight down there. Hopefully, Hursty with his knowledge of that level could cherry-pick some of the best ones for us, provided the takeover has gone through and we have a bigger budget than we've reckoned to have of late.

We obviously need to avoid a repeat of the reprieve we got last time. At least Hurst isn't Newell and his signings won't be akin to Barry Conlon!

If miraculously this happens I won't feel great about it because we would effectively have robbed Torquay of their L2 place but that's a small price to pay and I suspect it's our only hope. This is the worst group of players ever. It's worse than the one that nearly got us relegated 3 years ago and that was worse than the one that did get us relegated.


What's to say that the  N.L. won't curtail the season and have the clubs that finish at the top still allowed to be promoted or have they amended their rules after last season?
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 10:36pm

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Quoted from arryarryarry


What's to say that the  N.L. won't curtail the season and have the clubs that finish at the top still allowed to be promoted or have they amended their rules after last season?


Doubt the EFL would allow them into the league. Some have only played 14 or 15 games.
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supertown
January 26, 2021, 10:36pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


What's to say that the  N.L. won't curtail the season and have the clubs that finish at the top still allowed to be promoted or have they amended their rules after last season?


Bit unrealistic, some have only played 14 games
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TownSNAFU5
January 26, 2021, 11:02pm
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We will see what the outcome is.  In the BBC report I like phases like “overwhelming majority” (of clubs) and “a well-place said that the league is a mess”.
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GrimRob
January 26, 2021, 11:13pm

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Quoted from ginnywings


Doubt the EFL would allow them into the league. Some have only played 14 or 15 games.


The EFL don't have to accept the NL clubs if they believe the conditions are not met

"If any of the foregoing conditions are not met by one or both of the clubs eligible to apply for promotion, the number of Clubs required to retire from League Two may, in the Board’s absolute discretion, be reduced accordingly and no other Clubs from The National League shall be eligible to join The League for the ensuing Season."

One of the conditions is that the "Champions" and play-off winners (by an agreed format) are promoted. I would argue that this means both teams would have played every team twice, or at least enough games to be mathematically in the positions they ended. Nobody can be declared "Champion" if they haven't actually won the league.

The EFL board has the "absolute discretion" to make this decision. Mind you they might fancy going to Torquay more than Cleethorpes.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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ginnywings
January 26, 2021, 11:46pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
We will see what the outcome is.  In the BBC report I like phases like “overwhelming majority” (of clubs) and “a well-place said that the league is a mess”.


It all hinges on whether the government will give them more grants, which is looking unlikely. If they don't, then the overwhelming majority will simply shut up shop as they have nothing to gain in carrying on. There will be some very miffed clubs who will wail and shout, but they will be few.
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Hagrid
January 27, 2021, 8:37am

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BBC reporting 10 million in grants available to Steps 3-6 clubs.
And loans to steps 1-2
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Jarmo.Is.God
January 27, 2021, 8:47am

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We know how much of a mess it can be getting games on in non-league during the winter, as most teams have played different amount of games.

Torquay have played the 2nd most amount of games this season with 19.

25th Jan, 2020.
Torquay drew 0-0 with Ebbsfleet, this was Torquay's 32nd game of the season....

Huge difference already
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forza ivano
January 27, 2021, 9:52am

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Good summary of where we are from Yeovil Facebook page
National League Season Hanging By A Thread
Crunch time is here, and unless the National League can persuade DCMS to convert the proffered £11 million loan into a grant in the next day or so it is set to ask its member clubs to vote on whether to terminate the season. Now this may partly be a tactic; an attempt to encourage backbench MPs (a number whom have already lobbied the minister on behalf of their local club) to continue ratcheting up the pressure to get DCMS to change its terms. But it is also inevitable that, if it does not, the question of ending the season will have to be put to the vote - and the outcome of that vote is close to certain. North and South will definitely pull the plug; and only a small number of Premier clubs have even hinted so far they might be prepared to consider continuing just on loans. The National League is now preparing for that ballot - obviously while hoping it will not be needed.
There is a major problem with the likelihood of DCMS U-turning, and so far it has given no indication that it is prepared to. Although - and journalist Ollie Bayliss has put in a Freedom of Information Act request for all the agendas and minutes of meetings, correspondence, and internal e-mails between and within DCMS and the National League - the details of the terms of the agreement have not yet been made public, DCMS is so far sticking to the line that loans is what was always on the table and that's what the National League executive agreed to. If this is indeed the case, whether through gullibility, incompetence or simple sheer stupidity, the executive is in a weak position to argue for a renegotiation now. There has been a suggestion that the terms "loans" and "grants" were not being used back in the autumn discussions, only the word "funding". If that is backed up by what emerges from the FIA request it may give the NL a bit of leverage. Though does beg the question why, as the supplicant for money, it didn't get clarification; and appears to have done nothing in the months that followed to clarify the situation either.
A further concern is whether, as more emerges, MPs will be quite as forthcoming in lobbying if it turns out the NL executive has been a bit economical with its interpretation of events. For example, Helen Grant, a former Minister for Sport and Tourism, had appeared sympathetic, and was one of those lobbying and writing a letter to DCMS on behalf of a local club, in her case Maidstone United. However today in parliament she appeared to have greater concerns about the competence of the National League Board, referring to its distribution of the National Lottery funding as "flawed" and a "botch". Few MPs are likely to be particularly enthusiastic about nailing their colours to any mast of perceived NLB incompetence.
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pontoonlew
January 27, 2021, 10:19am
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I genuinely think our only hope of staying up is if the National League gets curtailed.

Fingers crossed it happens tbh, although it'd result in one hell of a boring end of season for us.
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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 10:43am

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I can take a boring end to this season.


Lower F5
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davmariner
January 27, 2021, 10:48am
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https://twitter.com/official_darlo/status/1354368246477160451?s=21

NLN & NLS have been told their season with restart on Saturday 6th February.


Up The Mariners!
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ska face
January 27, 2021, 11:00am

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All well & good telling clubs that, but who’s paying for it?

I’m afraaaaaaaaaid it’s got to be austerity for the National League.
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MNH1972
January 27, 2021, 11:04am
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Avoid at all costs, run by amateurs who haven’t got a clue

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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 11:14am

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It’s alright the board telling them this but them doing it is another matter . If the board doesn’t say they are starting again I’d guess the NL clubs would have to announce they’re stopping then the excrement hits the fan


Lower F5
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ginnywings
January 27, 2021, 11:15am

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Quoted from davmariner
https://twitter.com/official_darlo/status/1354368246477160451?s=21

NLN & NLS have been told their season with restart on Saturday 6th February.


Think the National League Board are adopting the GTFC approach of blithely carrying on, telling themselves they are doing a good job, while all the evidence is to the contrary. They said teams were having a 2 week break, so that is what they are expecting to happen.

Before the 2 week break was announced, some sides had already decided unilaterally that they weren't going to fulfil any more fixtures unless or until the funding situation was sorted satisfactorily.

The issue remains, that if the government doesn't change it's stance to grants, most sides will vote to abandon the season.
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DB
January 27, 2021, 11:18am
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Quoted from ginnywings


Think National League Board are adopting the GTFC approach of blithely carrying on, telling themselves they are doing a good job, while all the evidence is to the contrary. They said teams were having a 2 week break, so that is what they are expecting to happen.

Before the 2 week break was announced, some sides had already decided unilaterally that they weren't going to fulfil any more fixtures unless or until the funding situation was sorted satisfactorily.

The issue remains, that if the government doesn't change it's stance to grants, most sides will vote to abandon the season.



If they need a new chairman they will be one free soon


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DB
January 27, 2021, 11:21am
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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
It’s alright the board telling them this but them doing it is another matter . If the board doesn’t say they are starting again I’d guess the NL clubs would have to announce they’re stopping then the excrement hits the fan



If clubs says we have no money left, can't complete the fixtures. What do NL board do. Bury their heads in the sand and carry on. A total farce, the board have no respect for the clubs in their own leagues or fans .


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ska face
January 27, 2021, 11:32am

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Looks like an exercise in shifting the blame.

Well WE wanted the league to continue, but the clubs decided otherwise...”
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TownSNAFU5
January 27, 2021, 11:35am
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Irrespective of what happens now, it is a sad indictment of our Club that we are hoping the NL stops as the best option to save our bacon.  

This is probably the 5th time in 10 years that we find ourselves in this position.  We had the Luton points deducted season, the following season’s relegation.  The Season when Chesterfield went down, this season and perm any one other season from 2 or 3 near misses.

For a Club that had 20 seasons in the Championship equivalent in the last 40 years - how the mighty  Mariners have fallen.  
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DB
January 27, 2021, 11:40am
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Irrespective of what happens now, it is a sad indictment of our Club that we are hoping the NL stops as the best option to save our bacon.  

This is probably the 5th time in 10 years that we find ourselves in this position.  We had the Luton points deducted season, the following season’s relegation.  The Season when Chesterfield went down, this season and perm any one other season from 2 or 3 near misses.

For a Club that had 20 seasons in the Championship equivalent in the last 40 years - how the mighty  Mariners have fallen.  



Fenty & Co will soon have gone and a new future awaits


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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 11:45am

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If anyone thinks Torquay or any other clubs at the top end of NL wouldn’t hope what we are if the positions were switched need to take a reality check .


Lower F5
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DB
January 27, 2021, 12:47pm
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Apparently NL players earn between £600 & £1k per week. Squad of 20 = £12k - £20k pw and with no funds coming in. It's easy to see why some are/will have financial problems. Obviously players in NL north & south will be on less but it will still be a massive situation and all these clubs will have additional overheads.

Grants is the only financial alternative for them as loans have to be paid sooner or later. It is also probably likely that their overdrafts have been maxed with owners making some sort of guarantee.

You do have to feel sorry for all these clubs and the NL is not the place for Town. If we survive the drop by the NL being null and void I'll take it.


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DB
January 27, 2021, 12:47pm
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Apparently NL players earn between £600 & £1k per week. Squad of 20 = £12k - £20k pw and with no funds coming in. It's easy to see why some are/will have financial problems. Obviously players in NL north & south will be on less but it will still be a massive situation and all these clubs will have additional overheads.

Grants is the only financial alternative for them as loans have to be paid sooner or later. It is also probably likely that their overdrafts have been maxed with owners making some sort of guarantee.

You do have to feel sorry for all these clubs and the NL is not the place for Town. If we survive the drop by the NL being null and void I'll take it.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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forza ivano
January 27, 2021, 12:58pm

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https://twitter.com/jimcgreen

this guy's worth following at the moment. Chester director, so obviously in the know, and happy to put stuff out there
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MarinerWY
January 27, 2021, 1:51pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Irrespective of what happens now, it is a sad indictment of our Club that we are hoping the NL stops as the best option to save our bacon.  


Indeed.

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https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1354424178703790084?s=19

Grants can be applied for but note if their 'imminent' future is insecure. Think that is the key word as teams more concerned about long term future of paying back loans.  So no blanket grants but clubs may get something if they can prove imminent risks. No idea what this means now.
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KingstonMariner
January 27, 2021, 2:07pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
Good summary of where we are from Yeovil Facebook page
National League Season Hanging By A Thread
Crunch time is here, and unless the National League can persuade DCMS to convert the proffered £11 million loan into a grant in the next day or so it is set to ask its member clubs to vote on whether to terminate the season. Now this may partly be a tactic; an attempt to encourage backbench MPs (a number whom have already lobbied the minister on behalf of their local club) to continue ratcheting up the pressure to get DCMS to change its terms. But it is also inevitable that, if it does not, the question of ending the season will have to be put to the vote - and the outcome of that vote is close to certain. North and South will definitely pull the plug; and only a small number of Premier clubs have even hinted so far they might be prepared to consider continuing just on loans. The National League is now preparing for that ballot - obviously while hoping it will not be needed.
There is a major problem with the likelihood of DCMS U-turning, and so far it has given no indication that it is prepared to. Although - and journalist Ollie Bayliss has put in a Freedom of Information Act request for all the agendas and minutes of meetings, correspondence, and internal e-mails between and within DCMS and the National League - the details of the terms of the agreement have not yet been made public, DCMS is so far sticking to the line that loans is what was always on the table and that's what the National League executive agreed to. If this is indeed the case, whether through gullibility, incompetence or simple sheer stupidity, the executive is in a weak position to argue for a renegotiation now. There has been a suggestion that the terms "loans" and "grants" were not being used back in the autumn discussions, only the word "funding". If that is backed up by what emerges from the FIA request it may give the NL a bit of leverage. Though does beg the question why, as the supplicant for money, it didn't get clarification; and appears to have done nothing in the months that followed to clarify the situation either.
A further concern is whether, as more emerges, MPs will be quite as forthcoming in lobbying if it turns out the NL executive has been a bit economical with its interpretation of events. For example, Helen Grant, a former Minister for Sport and Tourism, had appeared sympathetic, and was one of those lobbying and writing a letter to DCMS on behalf of a local club, in her case Maidstone United. However today in parliament she appeared to have greater concerns about the competence of the National League Board, referring to its distribution of the National Lottery funding as "flawed" and a "botch". Few MPs are likely to be particularly enthusiastic about nailing their colours to any mast of perceived NLB incompetence.


It sounds like the NLB is as incompetent as the FL and FA. Really the whole of football governance in this country is a shambles and needs a complete overhaul.


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MuddyWaters
January 27, 2021, 2:23pm
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DCMS have confirmed it's loans not grants.
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diehardmariner
January 27, 2021, 3:01pm
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The "if loans are unaffordable" line seems a bit of a shitter really doesn't it?

The league or the clubs will be able to afford the loans if terms are 'generous' enough but it'll laden them with debt forever and/or significantly reduce future income.  Either way, it's keeping the immediate wolf at bay from the front door, knowing full well there's a pack of them out back and you can't afford to repair your fence for a long time.

Don't in the slightest blame any club for not wanting to take on the loans, be it themselves or the league.

Trying to take the GTFC selfish factor out of this, it still seems the most sensible approach to mothball the non-league season, protect those involved and then prosper when we're back to normality.  It's easy to say now (again, not trying to factor our own plight into this) but in six months or so time, the non-league scene should be buzzing.  People will be desperate to get back to games but you have to hope that those who would previously opt for the armchair viewing will be absolutely bored shitless with wall-to-wall Premier League drabfests and opt for live entertainment.  

This all said, if we were riding high in the Conference now and the season looked like it was going to stop, I would be fuming.
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RichMariner
January 27, 2021, 4:32pm
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I don't really see what's changed from yesterday? Just confirmation that if you're a NL club and you're concerned about how much money is going out compared to what's coming in, you'll be able to get a loan.

I guess the only new bit of information is the 'means-tested' grant, which is ambiguous.

Let's say, for argument's sake, Boreham Wood (currently outside the play-offs) applied for a grant and got one. Let's also say that Altrincham — currently in the play-offs and proud of running a frugal operation — drop out of the play-offs.

Boreham Wood win promotion via the play-offs, seemingly with the help of that grant, while Altrincham cut their cloth accordingly (that old chestnut) and fell short, when a little more money could've made a difference.

I dunno, it's all murky. It's almost like it's being made up as it goes along.


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moosey_club
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Looks to me like there will be financial help........which means we need to start winning.


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oochiad
January 27, 2021, 4:56pm
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We need to win indeed, NL folding won’t happen.
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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 5:23pm

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Not so sure yet . There was a big row between the clubs and NL board over the way the previous grant was shared . There’s not a lot of love between them or confidence that the board are competent. I think this is a long way from sorted out .


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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 5:30pm

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I’d hazard a guess that every NL and N/S could prove they need immediate financial help . That’s 72 clubs . 72 in £10 million is £139,000 per club . Not enough to see them through till August I’d think ....


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Looks to me there isn't that much of a change and the means tested grants are to stop teams going t1ts up rather than funding them to carry on with the season at all costs. Still think most clubs with nothing to play for will want to stop the season and cut costs to the bone so they live to fight another day.
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forza ivano
January 27, 2021, 6:32pm

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The latest view from Yeovil

Some Movement From DCMS - Is It Enough?
Nigel Huddlestone, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Sport, Heritage and Tourism at the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, has confirmed that the package of £14 million
previously agreed for the 850 clubs in Steps 3-6 will comprise £10 million in grants and £4 million in available loans.
For the National League (Steps 1 and 2) the situation continues to remain somewhat vague. Huddlestone was long on warm words, saying "we will not let clubs go to the wall", still short on actual specifics.
DCMS appears not to be budging on the principle that this second round of funding for the NL is a loan, but may be prepared to blur the edges. Huddlestone's stated that:
"With precious public money, we are providing financial support to the National League Steps 1 and 2 in the form of loans. However, if clubs at those levels can demonstrate it needs grant funding urgently to survive, we will ensure that option is available. Applications will be assessed by the independent board, through the same rigorous process that we apply to other sports."
What that means in practice, what criteria would need to be met by clubs to convert a loan to a grant, what individual sums would be involved, and what timescale is envisaged for this process to occur all remain unanswered.
Whether this will be enough to convince a majority of club chairmen to support the continuation of the season remains to be seen.
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Huish Hugh
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A major problem immediately leaps to the forefront: a system that appears to envisage some National League clubs ending up with grants while others only get loans is likely to cause ructions about fairness and level playing fields from those who don't meet the criteria established - whatever those turn out to be.
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Huish Hugh
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The phrase DCMS has come up with as to whether a club will be eligible for a grant instead of a loan is: "unless teams imminent future is at risk & loans are unaffordable". Of course that's pretty much a 'how long is a piece of string' question.
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DB
January 27, 2021, 6:47pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
The latest view from Yeovil

Some Movement From DCMS - Is It Enough?
Nigel Huddlestone, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Sport, Heritage and Tourism at the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, has confirmed that the package of £14 million
previously agreed for the 850 clubs in Steps 3-6 will comprise £10 million in grants and £4 million in available loans.
For the National League (Steps 1 and 2) the situation continues to remain somewhat vague. Huddlestone was long on warm words, saying "we will not let clubs go to the wall", still short on actual specifics.
DCMS appears not to be budging on the principle that this second round of funding for the NL is a loan, but may be prepared to blur the edges. Huddlestone's stated that:
"With precious public money, we are providing financial support to the National League Steps 1 and 2 in the form of loans. However, if clubs at those levels can demonstrate it needs grant funding urgently to survive, we will ensure that option is available. Applications will be assessed by the independent board, through the same rigorous process that we apply to other sports."
What that means in practice, what criteria would need to be met by clubs to convert a loan to a grant, what individual sums would be involved, and what timescale is envisaged for this process to occur all remain unanswered.
Whether this will be enough to convince a majority of club chairmen to support the continuation of the season remains to be seen.
3 Comments
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Huish Hugh
Admin
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A major problem immediately leaps to the forefront: a system that appears to envisage some National League clubs ending up with grants while others only get loans is likely to cause ructions about fairness and level playing fields from those who don't meet the criteria established - whatever those turn out to be.
3

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     · 3h

Huish Hugh
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The phrase DCMS has come up with as to whether a club will be eligible for a grant instead of a loan is: "unless teams imminent future is at risk & loans are unaffordable". Of course that's pretty much a 'how long is a piece of string' question.


Based on £600/wk per player min, squad of 20 @ 23 clubs is not far of £300k per week. This figure does not include any other costs, management wages, physio, office staff etc. Some players will be on £1,000 or more a week. The NL clubs will need a lot of cash between them and then their is NL south and north. £10 million grant sounds a lot but it's spread thin. If they need cash then how will they pay a loan? Defer it add the interest to it and pay of at a future  unknown date if things get better. I don't think so.


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MarinerDevil
January 27, 2021, 6:57pm
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The government are doing the usual PR fudge that shifts responsibility onto someone else.  Sounds to me like they want NL clubs to furlough employees - therefore ending the season - which they're happier to pay for as it goes straight into the economy rather than into the black hole of football club finance.  They'll then help any club out that might not be able to survive the hibernation period due to other debts.  

What clubs will do with this information, who knows.  Looks like step 2 are destined for null and void in the next week.  Step 1 will be harder to call.  Most clubs will probably favour furlough but the richer clubs might be able to persuade them to test the limits of the grant offer, prolonging the season until a point where PPG might be viable.  

The amount I'm even thinking about this is making me depressed.  Please just win a game Town.
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TwoLeftFeet
January 27, 2021, 7:01pm
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See the Labour leader has got in on the act now and having a zoom call with all the National league clubs in the morning.. sure it's for the good of football and not to try to gain a few votes!!
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KingstonMariner
January 27, 2021, 7:27pm
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Quoted from TwoLeftFeet
See the Labour leader has got in on the act now and having a zoom call with all the National league clubs in the morning.. sure it's for the good of football and not to try to gain a few votes!!


Yeah, anyone would think that elections are popularity contests.


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davmariner
January 27, 2021, 7:32pm
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Quoted from TwoLeftFeet
See the Labour leader has got in on the act now and having a zoom call with all the National league clubs in the morning.. sure it's for the good of football and not to try to gain a few votes!!


We’re talking National League clubs, it’s not exactly a goldmine of votes at stake...


Up The Mariners!
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davmariner
January 27, 2021, 7:33pm
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Looks like the National League board are trying to bounce clubs into accepting loans by announcing the league will restart.


Up The Mariners!
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IlkleyMariner
January 27, 2021, 8:32pm
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Presumably if Starmer was in charge in WW2 he would be cozying up to Hitler to find reasons to oppose Churchill.

Complete anus and male masturbator.
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IlkleyMariner
January 27, 2021, 8:33pm
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Hi.
Don’t usually use certain words, but interesting that the spellcheck has come up with the words above!
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KingstonMariner
January 27, 2021, 8:36pm
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner
Hi.
Don’t usually use certain words, but interesting that the spellcheck has come up with the words above!


What’s interesting is that you are comparing talking to the National League Clubs to getting into bed with the National Socialists.

Maybe you’re being ironic and it’s gone way over my head.


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IlkleyMariner
January 27, 2021, 8:45pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


What’s interesting is that you are comparing talking to the National League Clubs to getting into bed with the National Socialists.

Maybe you’re being ironic and it’s gone way over my head.


Your head is safe. Just think Starmer is a duplicitous wan.ker
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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 8:49pm

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Wtf has it got to do with Starmer anyway ?


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pontoonlew
January 27, 2021, 10:21pm
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Government have confirmed Step 1 won’t get grants, I reckon that’ll spell the end for their season and probably our impending doom.

Shite for them, fantastic for us
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KingstonMariner
January 27, 2021, 10:24pm
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner


Your head is safe. Just think Starmer is a duplicitous wan.ker


You have a remarkable brain to make that sort of leap from smarmy lawyer/politician to appeaser of Nazis. Amazing.


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January 27, 2021, 10:33pm

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Quoted from TwoLeftFeet
See the Labour leader has got in on the act now and having a zoom call with all the National league clubs in the morning.. sure it's for the good of football and not to try to gain a few votes!!


GTFC abstaining their way out of relegation.
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davmariner
January 27, 2021, 10:36pm
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Moving on from the dull politics chat, any further updates this evening?


Up The Mariners!
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davmariner
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0959vpx Notts County manager feels that the consensus at National League level is that the season will finish.


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louth_in_the_south
January 27, 2021, 11:27pm

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It’s got fook all to do with the manager. He isn’t funding Notts County.


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davmariner
January 27, 2021, 11:32pm
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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
It’s got fook all to do with the manager. He isn’t funding Notts County.


That’s true, but he said that the consensus amongst other managers and their clubs is that they want to carry on regardless, and that his sense from the Notts owner is that he also believes there’s a willingness to carry on in the National League.


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DB
January 27, 2021, 11:42pm
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He didn't say how many he spoke to. Presumably it's any club with a chance of promotion. Can't see those at the bottom very keen to carry on as their in a similar boat to Town.


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January 27, 2021, 11:48pm

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A votes going to settle it and I’d say the majority will be a no


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Lincoln Mariner 56
January 27, 2021, 11:50pm
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Quoted from DB
He didn't say how many he spoke to. Presumably it's any club with a chance of promotion. Can't see those at the bottom very keen to carry on as their in a similar boat to Town.


Not sure they can have relegation if North & South divisions are cancelled but I do expect the Conference to complete their fixtures so we need to stay up by our own efforts. In reality how much will clubs save by cancelling the season? I assume players contracts will still need paying & Im not sure furlough rules will allow a number of players to be placed on the scheme as they probably only joined at the start of this season and don’t qualify.
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LocalLadGTFC
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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56


Not sure they can have relegation if North & South divisions are cancelled but I do expect the Conference to complete their fixtures so we need to stay up by our own efforts. In reality how much will clubs save by cancelling the season? I assume players contracts will still need paying & Im not sure furlough rules will allow a number of players to be placed on the scheme as they probably only joined at the start of this season and don’t qualify.


Is it not a vote as a majority on all divisions to finish? So would have to be an outstanding majority of the NLN NLS clubs voting to carry on? That's what I thought anyway that step 1 won't carry on if step 2 doesn't.
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Does anybody have any idea when/if this vote will actually happen?


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Does anybody have any idea when/if this vote will actually happen?


No and nor do the people in charge probably. Those at the helm at the National League are absolutely flipping useless and are one of 4685 reasons I’m desperate to avoid going back there.
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RonMariner
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner
Presumably if Starmer was in charge in WW2 he would be cozying up to Hitler to find reasons to oppose Churchill.

Complete anus and male masturbator.


I think that is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen on here.

Regarding WW2, it was the Labour Party that supported Churchill in his strong anti Hitler stance. The Tory party at the time contained appeasers like Lord Halifax and Chamberlain who wanted to give in to Hitler. They had been 'cozying up' to Hitler for years.
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Godwin's Law kicks in.  

The National League Board are a joke. It's them that mislead their members into starting the league under false promises in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to let step 1 carry on regardless without step 2.
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toontown
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Quoted from ginnywings
Godwin's Law kicks in.  

The National League Board are a joke. It's them that mislead their members into starting the league under false promises in the first place. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to let step 1 carry on regardless without step 2.


I would say a compromise position of allowing each step to vote for itself whether to carry on is likely as well. Presumably they would need a vote in favour of that across the 72 teams or whatever it is. Then it would be down to the 23? Teams in NL to decide whether to carry on. As the playoffs are down to 7th is it now you would think at least a dozen teams might be willing to chance carrying on unfortunately.
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MNH1972
January 28, 2021, 1:05pm
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So if the national league carries on but north and south don’t. It’s ok for them to have promotion but no relegation.
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RichMariner
January 28, 2021, 1:25pm
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Choosing to carry on, in the hope of promotion, is a big risk. Maybe less so for Torquay, who are clear at the top, but for every other club in with a chance of making the play-offs, they need to sit down and have a serious chat about odds.

If Torquay are promoted automatically, that leaves one more promotion spot up for grabs, and currently about 10 teams will think it could be them — but it's guaranteed to leave 9 of them not only disappointed but in dire financial straits.

It must be a horrible decision to make, if your club is in with a credible shout of promotion into the football league, but you can't put your club's future at risk when there's so much of the season yet to play, and when the odds are against you.


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Quoted from RichMariner
Choosing to carry on, in the hope of promotion, is a big risk. Maybe less so for Torquay, who are clear at the top, but for every other club in with a chance of making the play-offs, they need to sit down and have a serious chat about odds.

If Torquay are promoted automatically, that leaves one more promotion spot up for grabs, and currently about 10 teams will think it could be them — but it's guaranteed to leave 9 of them not only disappointed but in dire financial straits.

It must be a horrible decision to make, if your club is in with a credible shout of promotion into the football league, but you can't put your club's future at risk when there's so much of the season yet to play, and when the odds are against you.


Well it will need to be more than 10 teams to get a majority, 12 required. And 12th place is within 3 points of the playoffs.

Hopefully a few of them won't want to risk it....
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from MNH1972
So if the national league carries on but north and south don’t. It’s ok for them to have promotion but no relegation.


Why wouldn't it be?
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https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1354823446778105857?s=09

First sentence of 4th paragraph perhaps most significant, in that grants only by exception, that being clubs demonstrate they'd be unable to pay off loans. That in itself would probably mean that a club may be deemed capable of paying off a loan if it cut its costs, thereby preventing grants. Clearly DCMS want to throw the ball into the clubs courts and say 'well we gave you an opportunity', removing any scrutiny on their part.
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Not sure the timescales are going to work. Clubs expected to meet tomorrow, have books open & inspected, apply for grants/loans, have whole process agreed and delivered in the next few days/week, with players expecting payment of Feb’s wages and fees from the 6th?

Can’t see it happening. Are clubs going to play on the 6th or will the vote happen early next week to scrub it?
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Mikey_345
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All seemingly pointing to a suspension/cancelling.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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Humbercod
January 28, 2021, 6:17pm
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Quoted from RonMariner


I think that is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen on here.

Regarding WW2, it was the Labour Party that supported Churchill in his strong anti Hitler stance. The Tory party at the time contained appeasers like Lord Halifax and Chamberlain who wanted to give in to Hitler. They had been 'cozying up' to Hitler for years.


It’s true Attlee supported Churchill once war broke out, but he was also another appeaser who as you say was ‘cozying up to Hitler up until then. Some like blame the Tories for the way they appeased Hitler but Labour was just as much to blame. Attlee is on record downplaying the rise of The Nazi’s and he also wanted full disarmament... unbelievable really.
The following quotes are from Attlee in the commons at the time

'we fully recognise Germany’s claims for justice! adding, 'the Nazi revolution is very largely a demand for bread'

‘I do not believe that it is very much use in this House to indulge in strong language against the Nazi regime,'

‘There is no defence against air attack,'
Was his quote regarding disarmament aimed at the RAF
the force that as we know went on to being our saviour.
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pontoonlew
January 28, 2021, 6:22pm
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Quoted from Mikey_345
All seemingly pointing to a suspension/cancelling.


Points to calling the governments bluff imo. I still think there will be a resolution in some guise.
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GollyGTFC
January 28, 2021, 6:31pm

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Quoted from pontoonlew


Points to calling the governments bluff imo. I still think there will be a resolution in some guise.


Hmmmm. Really? So the government who have abandoned 3 million people and steadfast refused to u-turn are suddenly going to backtrack for National League club. Not going to happen.

And also, the pledge of grants it a club can’t repay loan is rubbish. Any application for a grant could legitimately be met with the government saying “you can’t prove you wouldn’t be able to repay loans because you can’t budget for a Marine/Chorley type FA Cup run.”

I think it will be loans with a pledge to look at writing off loans far in the future for those clubs who can’t repay.
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Mikey_345
January 28, 2021, 6:32pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Points to calling the governments bluff imo. I still think there will be a resolution in some guise.


Honest question, what is making them bluff? Not as if it a huge national issue. They can easily say we offered loans and grants if they were needed. Think they’ve got more on their plate than playing a game of chicken with the national league.

They are already unimpressed with how the original was distrusted. Also opens other sports wanting more if they give it.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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BobbyCummingsTackle
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Quoted from ginnywings


Going off on a slight tangent, he looks like a complete tool. He wouldn't be out of place as a Fast Show character.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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Civvy at last
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Quoted from Humbercod


It’s true Attlee supported Churchill once war broke out, but he was also another appeaser who as you say was ‘cozying up to Hitler up until then. Some like blame the Tories for the way they appeased Hitler but Labour was just as much to blame. Attlee is on record downplaying the rise of The Nazi’s and he also wanted full disarmament... unbelievable really.
The following quotes are from Attlee in the commons at the time

'we fully recognise Germany’s claims for justice! adding, 'the Nazi revolution is very largely a demand for bread'

‘I do not believe that it is very much use in this House to indulge in strong language against the Nazi regime,'

‘There is no defence against air attack,'
Was his quote regarding disarmament aimed at the RAF
the force that as we know went on to being our saviour.


I believe it was Fenty’s Grandfather that said
‘ the stirring from the Nazi Party was only a vocal minority’ and wouldn’t have any real effect 😉


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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TownSNAFU5
January 28, 2021, 7:09pm
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Never mind the politicians, at least the King wasn’t toadying up to the Nazi’s.  😉
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forza ivano
January 28, 2021, 7:40pm

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this is going way off line, but many in The Establishment were Nazi sympathisers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Club

https://www.thelondoneconomic......n-of-fascists/28/10/

Also thr Duke of Hamilton was the man Rudolf Hess was trying to meet when he flew into Scotland

https://www.express.co.uk/expressyourself/126784/Hitler-s-aristocratic-admirers
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forza ivano
January 28, 2021, 8:25pm

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16 NL clubs have signed a joint statement

https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1354882514666532864/photo/1

this follows on from their meeting this morning

https://twitter.com/jimcgreen/status/1354816716660908034
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140348
January 28, 2021, 8:28pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
this is going way off line, but many in The Establishment were Nazi sympathisers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Club

https://www.thelondoneconomic......n-of-fascists/28/10/

Also thr Duke of Hamilton was the man Rudolf Hess was trying to meet when he flew into Scotland

https://www.express.co.uk/expressyourself/126784/Hitler-s-aristocratic-admirers


The Scots probably wanted the Nazis to give them independence.  
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louth_in_the_south
January 28, 2021, 8:55pm

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How the fook can a thread about NL turn into a fight over WW2 politics ffs ?


Lower F5
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Davec
January 28, 2021, 8:55pm
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I think the national League board might be pushing to curtail the season, as they wouldn't ask clubs to vote on a resolution which involves playing to and end would they... If they did nothing the season would continue.
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louth_in_the_south
January 28, 2021, 9:02pm

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Erm not if the clubs run out of money .........


Lower F5
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Davec
January 28, 2021, 9:14pm
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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
Erm not if the clubs run out of money .........


That's why I think the vote will be to null and void the season/curtail it
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louth_in_the_south
January 28, 2021, 9:18pm

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Sherlock Holmes is alive and well .


Lower F5
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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 9:40pm

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Think there are some excellent points in some of those tweets, namely the issue of importance of football in the grand scheme of things. Most of them simply don't have the money to carry on, but are coming across like they are a special case, when there are millions of people struggling in all areas of the entertainment industry without much, if any financial help from the Government.

They gambled on starting the league, the pandemic got worse, ruling out fans return, and they can't expect to be bailed out when others have been forced to get on with it without much help from the public purse.

Pack it in, pull up the drawbridge and live to fight another day.
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davmariner
January 28, 2021, 9:54pm
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Up The Mariners!
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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 10:01pm

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Quoted from davmariner


Step 1 more likely to carry on you'd have thought. So no relegation for them but relegation for us if we can't get out of trouble.

Doesn't feel fair if so.
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MeanwoodMariner
January 28, 2021, 10:04pm

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It's not clear that a simple majority vote will work here. What if 5 clubs vote to abandon the season because it's not viable for them to continue, but the majority vote to play on? Are those 5 clubs forced to continue? If they're given grants as special cases then that might upset some of the others. If they refuse to play would they be punished? Seems harsh.

This could get messy.
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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 10:09pm

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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner
It's not clear that a simple majority vote will work here. What if 5 clubs vote to abandon the season because it's not viable for them to continue, but the majority vote to play on? Are those 5 clubs forced to continue? If they're given grants as special cases then that might upset some of the others. If they refuse to play would they be punished? Seems harsh.

This could get messy.


Yep, surely it has to be all or nothing. They can't simply play on without all the fixtures being completed and I think the EFL need to clarify what their position is regarding allowing teams into league 2.

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lew chaterleys lover
January 28, 2021, 10:11pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


Step 1 more likely to carry on you'd have thought. So no relegation for them but relegation for us if we can't get out of trouble.

Doesn't feel fair if so.


That will be subject to legal challenge, surely? You have the prospect of promotion candidates playing teams at the bottom with nothing to play for, whilst others may have to face more promotion contenders.

I don't see how you can change the rules of the competition halfway through.
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MeanwoodMariner
January 28, 2021, 10:18pm

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That will be subject to legal challenge, surely? You have the prospect of promotion candidates playing teams at the bottom with nothing to play for, whilst others may have to face more promotion contenders.

I don't see how you can change the rules of the competition halfway through.


But isn't that what we're hoping for in league 2?
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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 10:18pm

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That will be subject to legal challenge, surely? You have the prospect of promotion candidates playing teams at the bottom with nothing to play for, whilst others may have to face more promotion contenders.

I don't see how you can change the rules of the competition halfway through.


Exactly. If there is no relegation and financially compromised teams are forced to carry on, they will just do the bare minimum. Probably trim their squads and just put out a bunch of kids with no real need to get results other than pride.

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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 10:20pm

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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


But isn't that what we're hoping for in league 2?


No, because we aren't cap in hand to the government for money. It's not our fault the NL can't afford to carry on and we can.

We will be paying our way and honouring our contracts and financial commitments.
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MNH1972
January 28, 2021, 10:22pm
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The EFL will step in and stop this nonsense. It can’t carry on end of
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MNH1972
January 28, 2021, 10:23pm
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The EFL will step in and stop this nonsense. It can’t carry on end of
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davmariner
January 28, 2021, 10:23pm
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Suspect the vote will look something like this. The ones towards the top (and also those with a shout of the play offs) wanting to continue and the smaller clubs in mid table and those in danger of going down will vote to void.

Torquay - Continue
Sutton - Continue
Hartlepool - Continue
Altrincham - Continue
Stockport - Continue
Halifax - Continue
Notts County - Continue
Maidenhead - Continue
Solihull - Continue
Borehamwood - Continue
Wrexham - Void
Aldershot - Continue
Chesterfield - Continue
Bromley - Void
Eastleigh - Continue
Woking - Void
Dagenham - Void
Wealdstone - Void
Kings Lynn - Void
Yeovil - Void
Weymouth - Void
Dover - Void
Barnet - Void


Up The Mariners!
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lew chaterleys lover
January 28, 2021, 10:27pm
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


But isn't that what we're hoping for in league 2?


Indeed we are, but ours will be forced on us by the league below imploding.
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TownSNAFU5
January 28, 2021, 10:38pm
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Going up via the playoffs is only a 1 in 7 chance, or maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 12 if you include all the hopefuls.  Not good odds.  Will teams want to take the risk?

Finishing season with one decision does solve a lot of problems and uncertainty.  

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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 10:39pm

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Indeed we are, but ours will be forced on us by the league below imploding.


There's no comparison. The EFL and NL are different entities and the EFL can veto promotion from there if they feel they need to, and for me they need to tell the NL in no uncertain terms that they will not allow teams into the league unless they have played in a full and fair competition.

They (NL) decided unilaterally to start the season, despite not having the funds to continue beyond now without financial support or the return of fans. It has backfired on them and they have to bear the consequences. The EFL need to be telling them before they vote that it's all or nothing. They can't carry on just with the clubs that want to and/or can afford to.

The EFL should just put them out of their misery and I would be saying the same if we were safe in mid table. The NL clubs will talk about he integrity of finishing their league, but all their integrity has gone when some of the clubs are on the bones of their ar$e and have nothing to play for.
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DB
January 28, 2021, 10:43pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


No, because we aren't cap in hand to the government for money. It's not our fault the NL can't afford to carry on and we can.

We will be paying our way and honouring our contracts and financial commitments.


I see what you mean but I think you chose the wrong words, they sound like an endorsement for Fenty & Phil; which I know you wouldn't want them to mean.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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ginnywings
January 28, 2021, 10:51pm

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Quoted from DB


I see what you mean but I think you chose the wrong words, they sound like an endorsement for Fenty & Phil; which I know you wouldn't want them to mean.



No I didn't.

No such endorsement was implied or intended.
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DB
January 28, 2021, 11:05pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


No I didn't.

No such endorsement was implied or intended.


That's what I thought, didn't want you get those X's


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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KingstonMariner
January 28, 2021, 11:24pm
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Quoted from forza ivano
this is going way off line, but many in The Establishment were Nazi sympathisers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Club

https://www.thelondoneconomic......n-of-fascists/28/10/

Also thr Duke of Hamilton was the man Rudolf Hess was trying to meet when he flew into Scotland

https://www.express.co.uk/expressyourself/126784/Hitler-s-aristocratic-admirers


I thought Hess flew off to Crawley and met Spandau Ballet at Gatwick?


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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toontown
January 29, 2021, 8:40am
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Quoted from ginnywings


There's no comparison. The EFL and NL are different entities and the EFL can veto promotion from there if they feel they need to, and for me they need to tell the NL in no uncertain terms that they will not allow teams into the league unless they have played in a full and fair competition.

They (NL) decided unilaterally to start the season, despite not having the funds to continue beyond now without financial support or the return of fans. It has backfired on them and they have to bear the consequences. The EFL need to be telling them before they vote that it's all or nothing. They can't carry on just with the clubs that want to and/or can afford to.

The EFL should just put them out of their misery and I would be saying the same if we were safe in mid table. The NL clubs will talk about he integrity of finishing their league, but all their integrity has gone when some of the clubs are on the bones of their ar$e and have nothing to play for.


Agreed - and furthermore the EFL are obliged to be sure there is a functioning league for any relegated clubs to play in, which under the current circumstances doesn't look like it can be guaranteed.
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pontoonlew
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Seems like the National League are having a meeting today and Tuesday to discuss how to apply for grants.

The fact that meeting is actually happening suggests a breakthrough will be made in some way shape or form, especially given the North/South are still able to finish theirs. The complications will arise when teams point blank refuse to play, but if enough are convinced their application for grants will come through, then enough will vote for it.

The bonus being that if we do go down, almost the entire league will be skint.
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Marinerdeano
January 29, 2021, 9:57am
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Quoted from pontoonlew
Seems like the National League are having a meeting today and Tuesday to discuss how to apply for grants.

The fact that meeting is actually happening suggests a breakthrough will be made in some way shape or form, especially given the North/South are still able to finish theirs. The complications will arise when teams point blank refuse to play, but if enough are convinced their application for grants will come through, then enough will vote for it.

The bonus being that if we do go down, almost the entire league will be skint.


Once again got to point to the language of grants if 'imminent' future is at risk and loans are 'unafforable'. This could be very subjective and it may be argued that if any club at that level cut their costs, loans would be affordable. The question is are they willing to do that for the sake of one farcical season?
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LocalLadGTFC
January 29, 2021, 10:24am
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I see these meetings as no change to the circumstances if they have no income? They're just going to be in the same situation in 6 months time when the money has run out.
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toontown
January 29, 2021, 10:50am
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Quoted from pontoonlew
Seems like the National League are having a meeting today and Tuesday to discuss how to apply for grants.

The fact that meeting is actually happening suggests a breakthrough will be made in some way shape or form, especially given the North/South are still able to finish theirs. The complications will arise when teams point blank refuse to play, but if enough are convinced their application for grants will come through, then enough will vote for it.

The bonus being that if we do go down, almost the entire league will be skint.


If the league has been lumbered with the loan then all clubs including any relegated ones would suffer equally  i.e. less central payments. The ones that would avoid that penalty being any promoted out of the division,leaving the others to suffer the consequences...

So Torquay wouldn't care about the consequences of the league being lumbered with loans if they expect to not be playing in that league in future - that could be their and others way of thinking anyway.
Other clubs might think well even if we don't get any central payments in future nor will the other clubs in our division, and if we go up we dodge the consequences entirely, nowt to lose. One way of thinking about it.
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GollyGTFC
January 29, 2021, 11:16am

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Quoted from davmariner
Suspect the vote will look something like this. The ones towards the top (and also those with a shout of the play offs) wanting to continue and the smaller clubs in mid table and those in danger of going down will vote to void.

Torquay - Continue
Sutton - Continue
Hartlepool - Continue
Altrincham - Continue
Stockport - Continue
Halifax - Continue
Notts County - Continue
Maidenhead - Continue
Solihull - Continue
Borehamwood - Continue
Wrexham - Void
Aldershot - Continue
Chesterfield - Continue
Bromley - Void
Eastleigh - Continue
Woking - Void
Dagenham - Void
Wealdstone - Void
Kings Lynn - Void
Yeovil - Void
Weymouth - Void
Dover - Void
Barnet - Void


I think you’re overestimating how many clubs are prepared to take a loan to continue a seasok where their only chance of promotion is by the play-offs which is a one in six.

Personally I think it will be a conclusive majority for stopping. Around 18-5.
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pontoonlew
January 29, 2021, 11:22am
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Quoted from toontown


If the league has been lumbered with the loan then all clubs including any relegated ones would suffer equally  i.e. less central payments. The ones that would avoid that penalty being any promoted out of the division,leaving the others to suffer the consequences...

So Torquay wouldn't care about the consequences of the league being lumbered with loans if they expect to not be playing in that league in future - that could be their and others way of thinking anyway.
Other clubs might think well even if we don't get any central payments in future nor will the other clubs in our division, and if we go up we dodge the consequences entirely, nowt to lose. One way of thinking about it.


The league taking up the loans is already something that has been taken off the table. The option is simple, take the risk of a grant that'll take weeks to come through or finish the season.

I fear there's enough teams in the National League who will take the risk for the chance at playing in the EFL.
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TownSNAFU5
January 29, 2021, 11:28am
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Well, Barrow are not doing very well, despite being impressive in NL.
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ska face
January 29, 2021, 11:56am

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Quoted from pontoonlew
Seems like the National League are having a meeting today and Tuesday to discuss how to apply for grants.

The fact that meeting is actually happening suggests a breakthrough will be made in some way shape or form, especially given the North/South are still able to finish theirs.


Why? Nothing’s changed, it’s not a new scheme and has been running for months. The fact that they’re being channelled down this route, via an independent board of assessors, rather than having a Minister step in would suggest the opposite.
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Mikey_345
January 29, 2021, 12:07pm
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Quoted from ska face


Why? Nothing’s changed, it’s not a new scheme and has been running for months. The fact that they’re being channelled down this route, via an independent board of assessors, rather than having a Minister step in would suggest the opposite.


Got to agree Ska, Conrad Rangers chairman saying as a minimum they need to suspend for 4 weeks until they can receive money as it will take 4/6 weeks for funding to arrive, after they’ve opened their books.

Also it is assuming normal income streams in April which I can’t see. My honest opinion is this is heading one way, why would you risk the future of your club on loans or playing chicken for just one season with very little reward? (2 promotion places)


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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ginnywings
January 29, 2021, 12:33pm

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forza ivano
January 29, 2021, 3:54pm

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the latest view from Yeovil

Meetings and More Meetings
National League clubs are engaged in a meeting with Sport England this morning (there's another slot available this coming Tuesday for those who can't make today's). Whilst the National League Board had responsibility for distributing the first tranche of funding back in the autumn it appears it will not this time. The NLB had seemed to be working on the assumption it would remain in charge of distribution up until a couple of weeks ago. It may be that it was always intended that Sport England would be tasked with the job - this was a Board so off the pace it didn't even realise it had agreed loans not grants - or that its performance, described by a former Conservative Sports Minister in Parliament as "flawed" and a "botch", means the Government no longer trusts its competence and now prefers Sport England to do it.
What clubs appear to have been most concerned about in this meeting is the timescale, particularly for any process of presenting a case and receiving a decision on whether they are eligible to have a loan converted to a grant. It's doubtful chairmen are going to have been impressed by the response that is being reported - that it is likely to take four weeks, and possibly longer. This appears a lengthy period, but it seems likely that in order to demonstrate eligibility clubs will be asked to present detailed accounts, projections and forecasts to 'prove' a grant rather than a loan is essential to its survival.
Chairmen were also informed that this funding was designed to take them through the three months (since it was supposed to have begun January 1st) up to the beginning April, after which the situation would be that clubs would have to rely on their "normal revenues".
Of course when this package was negotiated back in the autumn lots of optimistic wishful thinking was in the air, particularly from some parts of Government, that all this would be pretty much over by Christmas. Thus a three month package of loans from January to March could be presented as suitable - and might not be needed at all - with crowds back in the stadiums. The chances of crowds being back by April 1st now seems pretty negligible.
On the decision to continue the season (or not) chairmen will be seeing themselves as once again being asked to take a crucial step, that has potential for a major impact on their club's longer term future, 'blind' as to what its financial situation will be a month or so down the road.
3 Comments
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Nick Hayward
Thanks for the info, what a farce
1

     · Reply
     · 1h

David Burnell
It’s not looking good in my opinion. You cannot run a business not knowing if your loan will become a grant but knowing that if it’s a loan you might not be able to pay it back.
What a choice.

     · Reply
     · 43m

Huish Hugh
Admin
Major divergences appearing amongst chairmen's views. Boston United (who happen to be in a play-off spot currently) chairman David Newton states it's "generous support"; that there's an "obligation" to continue the season; and implies there shouldn't be any vote, that the NL should simply order clubs to continue. He provides first details on the loan terms have seen, claiming it's: a four year repayment holiday followed by a fixed 2% interest rate over an extended period - which in certain circumstances might be up to 20 years. Meanwhile Concord Rangers (who happen to be down near the foot of their table) chairman Antony Smith is at the other end of the scale of opinion, stating that as a minimum the season should be suspended for four weeks (or longer if necessary) until all funding issues have been resolved, clubs know exactly what they are getting and whether a loan or a grant, and payments are arriving in club bank accounts; and comes close to hinting his club will refuse to play until this is sorted.
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forza ivano
January 29, 2021, 3:59pm

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and from Chester (who are broadly supportive of the 16/17 clubs who issued the statement yesterday)

https://twitter.com/jimcgreen/status/1355113822143598595
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GrimRob
January 29, 2021, 4:22pm

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Is there one vote for Step One and one for Step Two, or one combined vote?


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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forza ivano
January 29, 2021, 4:43pm

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Quoted from GrimRob
Is there one vote for Step One and one for Step Two, or one combined vote?


i think 'there's the rub'  - should be the 66 voting but it seems there's a strong possibility that north and south will vote to abort and the national league will vote to continue ; just our luck!
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MNH1972
January 29, 2021, 5:04pm
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Quoted from forza ivano


If a league can’t offer both relegation and promotion then they should be denied both. It is not functioning correctly

i think 'there's the rub'  - should be the 66 voting but it seems there's a strong possibility that north and south will vote to abort and the national league will vote to continue ; just our luck!


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ginnywings
January 29, 2021, 5:43pm

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Quoted from MNH1972




Exactly. The teams at the bottom half of the table will be playing with no threat of relegation and can just throw out any team they want. They wouldn't even need to train properly. It'd be a farce with no integrity.

Got to be all or nothing.
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MNH1972
January 29, 2021, 6:01pm
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I believe the EFL need to make it clear what is required to enable promotion into the football league . We’ve got to do anything to stop ourselves going into that basket case of a set up
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davmariner
January 29, 2021, 6:33pm
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https://twitter.com/altrinchamfc/status/1355221356854571010?s=21

Suspect the hearts not head type decision will prevail. Makes you think if they weren’t currently in the playoffs, whether they would be voting the opposite!


Up The Mariners!
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arryarryarry
January 29, 2021, 6:47pm
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Well, Barrow are not doing very well, despite being impressive in NL.


They are doing better than us.
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DB
January 29, 2021, 6:52pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


They are doing better than us.


So are another 21 clubs, but that will change on tomorrow


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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arryarryarry
January 29, 2021, 6:57pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


Exactly. The teams at the bottom half of the table will be playing with no threat of relegation and can just throw out any team they want. They wouldn't even need to train properly. It'd be a farce with no integrity.

Got to be all or nothing.


The same could happen in League 2 or any other League if there were two clubs similar to the Bury situation and at the start of the season they were thrown out of the League so we played with 2 less teams then no one would be relegated.
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arryarryarry
January 29, 2021, 6:59pm
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Quoted from DB


So are another 21 clubs, but that will change on tomorrow


Erm..................they were referring to a club that had been promoted from the National League.
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DB
January 29, 2021, 7:01pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


Erm..................they were referring to a club that had been promoted from the National League.


Sorry, but it wasn't made clear in that particular post


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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arryarryarry
January 29, 2021, 7:26pm
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Quoted from DB


Sorry, but it wasn't made clear in that particular post


What didn't you understand in the following words?

Well, Barrow are not doing very well, despite being impressive in NL.
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DB
January 29, 2021, 7:42pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry


What didn't you understand in the following words?

Well, Barrow are not doing very well, despite being impressive in NL.


Sorry again feel dumb, semi blind , inept, misguided, can't read, oap and any other excuse I can think of, not forget being bullied by the X brigade. Feeling down trodden hopeless but not useless.

Like a phoenix I will rise again.



You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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ginnywings
January 30, 2021, 12:07pm

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IlkleyMariner
January 30, 2021, 12:12pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


Wrexham will abstain from the vote, but are receiving a gift from their prospective new owners from Hollywood.



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forza ivano
January 31, 2021, 3:20pm

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where we are at present (taken from Yeovil's Ciderspace page)

Which Way Will The Vote Go?
Predictions are something of a mugs game, and of course we don't even know the wording of the motion or motions the National League executive will be putting to the vote next week. However we do know that the National League Premier will be voting separately to National League North & South.
So a quick tour around club websites and local media interviews seemed in order to get a feel of what chairmen might be thinking.
Wrexham has declared it will abstain (see a previous post as to what that's all about). That leaves 22 clubs to decide whether the season carries on.
Openly declaring they will be voting 'yes': Torquay, Hartlepool, Stockport, Altrincham, Solihull Moors, Chesterfield. (6)
Hinted strongly they'll be voting 'yes': Notts County, Yeovil (not via the chairman, but Darren Sarll indicated during the week that's the way he believes Scott Priestnall is minded). (2)
Sitting on fence: Weymouth. Chairman Ian White blogged that although he's in two minds he believed the NLP will vote to continue; and gave the impression he'd probably come off the fence to go with that if it looks likely to emerge as a majority. (1)
A statement so opaque one couldn't tell what thought about anything: Barnet's Tony Kleanthous (though given The Bees position in the table one might suspect which way he's tempted). (1)
Minded (though not firmly declared) to vote 'no' : Dagenham & Redbridge, King's Lynn, Maidenhead. (3)
Silent, having found no public statements by them so far: Sutton, Halifax, Bromley, Eastleigh, Boreham Wood, Aldershot, Woking, Wealdstone, Dover. (9)
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GrimRob
January 31, 2021, 4:04pm

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It's bound to be 11-11, that's just the sort of era we live in. Presumably, the status quo would remain if there was no majority?

It's my birthday tomorrow and the only present I want is the National League season to be pulled (although a 20 goals a season striker at 11pm would be nice too!).


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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ska face
January 31, 2021, 4:22pm

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Hoping that a lot of these statements are just posturing and positioning - no chairman wants to be the one who cancels a season halfway through. It’s a lot of “we’ll do all we can” and “we need to find a way” to finish the season, and I wonder how much of that is so they can turn around in a few weeks and say they did all they could, but it was ultimately someone else to blame.

Would these clubs vote to continue if some clubs got grants but others could only get loans? If you’re in the playoffs and can get a £200k loan, but the team below you can get the same as a grant, would you vote for that? So if you’re Stockport, with higher potential revenue, would you vote for Maidenhead to get the same as a grant despite being 3 points behind? Presumably the clubs would want support to be consistent across the board?

Then you’ve got the North and South leagues voting separately. Like people have pointed out for L2, with potentially no relegation, it brings the integrity of the competition into question, when half the league have nothing to play for.

Tomorrow I can see the can getting kicked down the road until there’s more clarity on funding, potentially by suspending the National League for a few weeks (not a bad idea at this time of year with the usual postponements) and then having a vote at a later date.

Yes, I’m desperate. We need almost 10 wins from the final 20-odd games, just can’t see it.
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pontoonlew
January 31, 2021, 4:43pm
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If they kick it any further down the road some clubs won’t be in the position to pay wages. The more I read the more I think enough will blindly carry on, suicidal as that is
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Davec
January 31, 2021, 5:07pm
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I can't see the season being cancelled unfortunately, we will somehow have to stay up our own way.
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Cambridgefish
January 31, 2021, 5:54pm
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Quoted from DB


Sorry again feel dumb, semi blind , inept, misguided, can't read, oap and any other excuse I can think of, not forget being bullied by the X brigade. Feeling down trodden hopeless but not useless.

Like a phoenix I will rise again.



Illegitimi non carborundum.

Keep that chin up!
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RonMariner
January 31, 2021, 5:56pm

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Quoted from Davec
I can't see the season being cancelled unfortunately, we will somehow have to stay up our own way.


I agree. We just ain't that lucky.

Luton's 30 point deduction was our get out of jail free moment. We would be be very very fortunate to get another reprieve.

Our destiny is still in our hands, just. We need to start winning.  
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ska face
January 31, 2021, 6:55pm

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Ollie Baylis looking like the best person to follow on this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1355930636775792650
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Marinerdeano
January 31, 2021, 6:56pm
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Quoted from ska face
Ollie Baylis looking like the best person to follow on this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1355930636775792650


Requires a 12 club majority I think but what about those clubs that say no and face being crippled by continuing? We really don't want to get dragged down into that mess again.
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Rodley Mariner
January 31, 2021, 7:12pm
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Those who have said they want to continue are mainly those in or around the top 7 but those near the bottom typically staying quiet though you'd guess they are considerably more likely to vote for an abandonment. Is it as simple as a majority vote either way in the National League and that's what they do?
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DB
January 31, 2021, 7:13pm
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I suppose the ultimate question about the NL  is what happens if they vote to continue. Then 1 or more clubs say we don't mind playing but without grants we have no money to pay wages etc..

The grants are not immediately available, so will the clubs at the top of the league bail them out. If they don't play will points be given to the opposing teams. It is a total and utter mess. I cannot see any chairman saddling his club with debt and no income to pay it be it this year next year or whenever.

Come tomorrow hopefully some sort of firm decision will be made, but I think the power will be with the lower placed. No money, no play.


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MarshMariner
January 31, 2021, 7:14pm
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Totally agree, how can you saddle another club with debt, the financial position of every club is different.. You can't force a club to participate in a league with no guaranteed income or long term strategy for repayment.

In effect put additional financial burden on clubs, just because your own club has a sniff at promotion...

Surely it has to be a vote they all either agree to or not...
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ginnywings
January 31, 2021, 7:17pm

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Someone saying that step 1 can carry on without step 2 and still have relegation as there is room to take some more teams in step 2 and increase their size for next season.

That puts a different light on things and makes it unlikely that we have grounds for complaint should we drop down.

The only other thing to consider is what will happen to teams that can't afford to carry on if the vote is for finishing the season? Will they be forced to play on or will they allow the league to be cut in size? If the size is cut, how do they deal with results from teams that opt out?

It's a right old mess.
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DB
January 31, 2021, 7:26pm
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[quote=799]Someone saying that step 1 can carry on without step 2 and still have relegation as there is room to take some more teams in step 2 and increase their size for next season.

That puts a different light on things and makes it unlikely that we have grounds for complaint should we drop down.

The only other thing to consider is what will happen to teams that can't afford to carry on if the vote is for finishing the season? Will they be forced to play on or will they allow the league to be cut in size? If the size is cut, how do they deal with results from teams that opt out?

It's a right old mess.[/quote]

Sounds like a quote from Saint & Greavesy


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Marinerdeano
January 31, 2021, 7:28pm
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I keep trying to not get my hopes up and then I think it's our only hope. Feel sick!
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fishcake63
January 31, 2021, 7:47pm
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The national league will surely get curtailed if it goes to a vote , ok abit unfair on torquay and few others but the very survival of clubs at stake here
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Mariner_501
January 31, 2021, 7:56pm
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Literally praying it’s all called off. Our only hope.
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ginnywings
January 31, 2021, 8:06pm

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The problem is that teams always want to play on, especially if they have a sniff of promotion and lot's of them have got themselves into debt in the past chasing glory, so a loan with low interest rates spread over a long period isn't going to deter some of them. Getting into debt is what football clubs do very well.

There will be some sensible ones that won't want to, but I think there will be some that will risk it. I think they should just shut up shop for the sake of 2 teams who will win the golden ticket, but I fear they won't see it that way if there is a chance of promotion. I'm not even certain they should be allowed to decide their own fate, as there will be too much self interest involved.
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Marinerdeano
January 31, 2021, 8:08pm
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Quoted from fishcake63
The national league will surely get curtailed if it goes to a vote , ok abit unfair on torquay and few others but the very survival of clubs at stake here


But lots of clubs seemingly willing to stubbornly carry on and to hell with the consequences! Worried about the 'integrity of the NL' and future chance of promotion to EFL. I really don't think the EFL are going to prevent future promotions just because of a weird season like this. In fact I think the EFL need to speak out before the vote. As for the integrity, not much integrity was shown when not one club asked for terms of funding in writing.  
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ginnywings
January 31, 2021, 8:13pm

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Quoted from Marinerdeano


But lots of clubs seemingly willing to stubbornly carry on and to hell with the consequences! Worried about the 'integrity of the NL' and future chance of promotion to EFL. I really don't think the EFL are going to prevent future promotions just because of a weird season like this. In fact I think the EFL need to speak out before the vote. As for the integrity, not much integrity was shown when not one club asked for terms of funding in writing.  


Agreed. The EFL should just tell them that sorry, but no team accepted this season due to circumstances. Normal service resumed once we are back to normal. Would upset half a dozen teams but hey ho, it would put an end to the uncertainty. They never should have started.
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GollyGTFC
January 31, 2021, 8:25pm

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Quoted from DB
I suppose the ultimate question about the NL  is what happens if they vote to continue. Then 1 or more clubs say we don't mind playing but without grants we have no money to pay wages etc..

The grants are not immediately available, so will the clubs at the top of the league bail them out. If they don't play will points be given to the opposing teams. It is a total and utter mess. I cannot see any chairman saddling his club with debt and no income to pay it be it this year next year or whenever.

Come tomorrow hopefully some sort of firm decision will be made, but I think the power will be with the lower placed. No money, no play.


Grants...

There won't be any. The government will not give grants to any club in my opinion. They will say (and they're probably right) "how do you know you couldn't repay a loan? You might have an FA Cup run and make a heap of money like Chorley & Marine did this season."

And Re: what clubs have said in public... It's one thing wanting to carry on, but it's a whole other thing being able to. Clubs will vote on the reality of the situation and not on what the heart wants them to.
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Eastendmariner
January 31, 2021, 8:33pm
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The NL have to treat the whole division with respect sure even in a normal season when certain clubs in that division are struggling to survive this shows me the gun ho attitude of this league to carry on at the demise of the lesser clubs that have the means to survive.
After all we have a long term loan over 20 years and guess what what have we done in the Football ladder relegated 3 times and struggled with just keeping afloat.
NL do the right thing and bin the season painful as it is you can't have structure that only promotes teams from one division Can you ?


Mariner Trust Life Member  

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GrimRob
January 31, 2021, 9:50pm

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Don't get your hopes up. If they vote to end Step 2 (as expected) then the Step 1 clubs have nothing to fear relegation-wise. Over half of them have a fair chance of making the play-offs,

The ideal thing for us is to finish third-bottom or higher then we get a few months of fans paying a tenner to watch something meaningful. Our income will take a hit if we have nothing to play for in what remains of the season.


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Hagrid
January 31, 2021, 9:58pm

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No rob i dont give a intercourse if our income takes a hit. They’ve got my money. I want a null and void NL
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pontoonlew
January 31, 2021, 9:59pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
Don't get your hopes up. If they vote to end Step 2 (as expected) then the Step 1 clubs have nothing to fear relegation-wise. Over half of them have a fair chance of making the play-offs,

The ideal thing for us is to finish third-bottom or higher then we get a few months of fans paying a tenner to watch something meaningful. Our income will take a hit if we have nothing to play for in what remains of the season.


Our income will take a much bigger hit if we’re carted back off to that flipping graveyard
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lew chaterleys lover
January 31, 2021, 10:04pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
Don't get your hopes up. If they vote to end Step 2 (as expected) then the Step 1 clubs have nothing to fear relegation-wise. Over half of them have a fair chance of making the play-offs,

The ideal thing for us is to finish third-bottom or higher then we get a few months of fans paying a tenner to watch something meaningful. Our income will take a hit if we have nothing to play for in what remains of the season.


Its been a terrible weekend football-wise, but I don't understand that last paragraph; what would we paying for if we have already finished 3rd bottom?

Edit. Sorry yes I see what you mean. NL to continue, so we have to fight to get 3rd bottom or better.
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toontown
January 31, 2021, 10:40pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


Agreed. The EFL should just tell them that sorry, but no team accepted this season due to circumstances. Normal service resumed once we are back to normal. Would upset half a dozen teams but hey ho, it would put an end to the uncertainty. They never should have started.


The efl would have no reason to tell themn that if they play on and complete a full season.

Obviously different matter if they can't. Or if some teams refuse to play on so a bunch of teams results have to be excluded.

If there is no relegation from step 1 the efl can't refuse to accept promoted teams as otherwise that means no relegation from league 2 and then by the same token league 1 couldn't accept promotion from league 2
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ginnywings
January 31, 2021, 11:03pm

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Quoted from toontown


The efl would have no reason to tell themn that if they play on and complete a full season.

Obviously different matter if they can't. Or if some teams refuse to play on so a bunch of teams results have to be excluded.

If there is no relegation from step 1 the efl can't refuse to accept promoted teams as otherwise that means no relegation from league 2 and then by the same token league 1 couldn't accept promotion from league 2


The EFL are a different entity to the NL and can refuse to let teams in if they wish.

If the NL haven't played a full and proper season, they shouldn't be allowed  to enter a team into the EFL in my opinion. It's not a right.
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Fillipe Noche
January 31, 2021, 11:05pm
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Personally I feel that the EFL has a responsibility to look after the interests of its member clubs. Presently, allowing two of its EFL clubs to be relegated to a league that is poorly run, in turmoil, and potentially not even in a position to play season 21/22, would be an injustice to EFL clubs.

On that basis, I feel that the EFL should close the door to promotion and relegation with NL, until such a time that the NL can demonstrate greater stability.
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Mariner_09
January 31, 2021, 11:15pm
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Use this as an excuse to bring back re-election!  


I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
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GrimRob
January 31, 2021, 11:32pm

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Quoted from Hagrid
No rob i dont give a intercourse if our income takes a hit. They’ve got my money. I want a null and void NL


But if you knew hypothetically that we were going to finish third bottom then you must concede that it would be a better finale then weeks of boring pointless games. I do enjoy a good relegation scrap, as long as it has a happy ending.

But obviously, as we don't have a crystal ball, then fingers crossed for the vote to go our way on my birthday tomorrow.


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ska face
February 1, 2021, 8:52am

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I’d be more inclined to watch us in iFollow if we were playing the next 20 as dead rubbers because I’d like to see what Hurst is doing for the next season, and I probably wouldn’t feel like slashing my wrists at 4:45pn every Sat.
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realist
February 1, 2021, 8:57am
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
Personally I feel that the EFL has a responsibility to look after the interests of its member clubs. Presently, allowing two of its EFL clubs to be relegated to a league that is poorly run, in turmoil, and potentially not even in a position to play season 21/22, would be an injustice to EFL clubs.

On that basis, I feel that the EFL should close the door to promotion and relegation with NL, until such a time that the NL can demonstrate greater stability.


I really disagree with this. If you are in the bottom 2 you deserve to be relegated. You know the consequences at the start of the season. You should have prepared for the season better
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Jarmo.Is.God
February 1, 2021, 9:00am

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Quoted from realist


I really disagree with this. If you are in the bottom 2 you deserve to be relegated. You know the consequences at the start of the season. You should have prepared for the season better


i'll disagree with you on another thread, but not this one.

You are right, we can't rely on another league ending, for us to stay up.
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Fillipe Noche
February 1, 2021, 9:06am
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Quoted from realist


I really disagree with this. If you are in the bottom 2 you deserve to be relegated. You know the consequences at the start of the season. You should have prepared for the season better


I’m not arguing that if you are in the bottom 2 that you should be relegated. Yes you should be. But there is a duty of care to ensure that teams dropping out of the EFL are moving down to a sustainable and stable league, and the National League clearly isn’t

I’m old enough to remember the days when there was no promotion from and relegation to the National League. It was a election process only if an EFL club no longer met the league criteria. It took decades for the football conference to reach the stage where it was considered competent enough to become a part of the regular pathway in the pyramid. Clearly that competence has now diminished and does not offer EFL clubs a secure environment to play in
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louth_in_the_south
February 1, 2021, 9:28am

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Quoted from ska face
I’d be more inclined to watch us in iFollow if we were playing the next 20 as dead rubbers because I’d like to see what Hurst is doing for the next season, and I probably wouldn’t feel like slashing my wrists at 4:45pn every Sat.


Completely agree judging by how I felt on Saturday


Lower F5
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GrimRob
February 1, 2021, 12:11pm

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Quoted from Fillipe Noche


I’m not arguing that if you are in the bottom 2 that you should be relegated. Yes you should be. But there is a duty of care to ensure that teams dropping out of the EFL are moving down to a sustainable and stable league, and the National League clearly isn’t

I’m old enough to remember the days when there was no promotion from and relegation to the National League. It was a election process only if an EFL club no longer met the league criteria. It took decades for the football conference to reach the stage where it was considered competent enough to become a part of the regular pathway in the pyramid. Clearly that competence has now diminished and does not offer EFL clubs a secure environment to play in


I think that's a bit harsh. Lots of "new" teams have come up from the National League and it's now packed with older, more traditional teams (like us) in addition to quite a few ambitious clubs lining up to replace the old guard. There have been very few teams who have come up and not been able to cope with the finances at this level (Rushden, Maidstone, Scarborough maybe? - all some time ago now). Most have thrived and many have risen a division or two further.


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psgmariner
February 1, 2021, 1:05pm

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BobbyCummingsTackle
February 1, 2021, 1:06pm
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It's very naive to suggest that a football organisation in England has a "duty of care" to it's member clubs. Nothing matters except money - do you have enough or too little.

The EFL will not give a flying toss whether the National League is "stable" or not. The FA should but all they care about is keeping the cash rolling in from the Golden Goose (The Premier League) and keeping the England team's income streams live.


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RonMariner
February 1, 2021, 1:29pm

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Quoted from psgmariner


Interesting.

If that is the case then voiding the season might be on the cards after all.
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ska face
February 1, 2021, 1:48pm

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Hard to see where they go from here. Govt aren't going to step in and issue grants to clubs getting 4/500 fans through the gate on a good day in some parallel scheme to the Winter Survival Fund which covers all spectator sports - rugby, horse racing, athletics, etc.

Clubs asking fans to sign an online petition, absolute waste of time.
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DB
February 1, 2021, 4:10pm
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Does anybody know when this vote takes place?


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Geordie Mariner
February 1, 2021, 4:22pm
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Quoted from DB
Does anybody know when this vote takes place?



I picked this up from the BBC online..........clubs have 28 days to respond but a final outcome is expected much earlier, although it is unclear how many will wait until after Tuesday's second meeting between Sport England and club officials before casting their votes.

So looks like tomorrow at the earliest.
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Hagrid
February 1, 2021, 5:27pm

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Times reporting it Unlikely the NL will conclude and could be voided this week
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Stadium
February 1, 2021, 5:31pm
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Quoted from Hagrid
Times reporting it Unlikely the NL will conclude and could be voided this week


All three divisions of the National League are likely to vote to terminate the season as early as this week rather than take on loans from the government’s rescue package, according to club representatives.

The National League will send out resolutions this week to all the 66 clubs asking them to vote on whether to continue the season or end it without any promotion or relegation.

The £11 million rescue package follows a £10 million bailout in the autumn but the difference is that this one is available only as loans to the majority of clubs. Steve Thompson, the managing director of Dagenham & Redbridge and a National League board member, said many clubs believe they would be better off terminating the season and using the furlough scheme to cover player salaries.

“I think it is unlikely the season will be completed,” Thompson said. “It does not look like fans will be back at all and I think there’s a real possibility that the National League will vote as a whole not to carry on.”

Thompson added that there was a likelihood that even if the season did continue via a majority vote then some individual clubs would then drop out.

“We’re not saying the government reneged on a promise for grants but that was the inference the clubs took and that’s why we started the season,” he said. “It would probably be cheaper for the taxpayer to provide it as grants than pay the salaries via the furlough scheme.

“Clubs don’t know how much of a loan they can apply for, what the security for the loan will be or whether it will be accepted. There are a number who just cannot afford to carry on.”

The National League has launched a campaign to try to persuade the government to provide the entire package as grant funding and has hired a PR agency to assist with this. It is asking the clubs’ local MPs to support its call.



“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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GrimRob
February 1, 2021, 5:42pm

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Why does it take so long? They've probably all made up their minds now, maybe one or two tomorrow when there's a bit more info? But surely it can and be done and dusted within 24 hours.


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RonMariner
February 1, 2021, 5:53pm

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In the NL does void, then what will be the impact on the way teams at the bottom end of L2 approach the rest of the season? For them matches are then of little more significance than pre-season friendlies.

Might see all manner of  experimental line ups, younger squad players getting match time. Could seriously disrupt the integrity of the competition as a whole.

I wonder if the EFL would introduce some stipulations about team selections as they do with the that cup competition?  
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ginnywings
February 1, 2021, 5:54pm

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Seems like they can't accept the inevitable and are desperately trying every avenue they can. Is hiring a PR agency a sensible use of funds?

The only clubs that will be bothered by a voided season is those with a sniff of promotion and most of the others will be relieved to be put out of their misery.

If as he says some will still drop out even if they carry on, then what's the point?
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ginnywings
February 1, 2021, 5:57pm

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Quoted from RonMariner
In the NL does void, then what will be the impact on the way teams at the bottom end of L2 approach the rest of the season? For them matches are then of little more significance than pre-season friendlies.

Might see all manner of  experimental line ups, younger squad players getting match time. Could seriously disrupt the integrity of the competition as a whole.

I wonder if the EFL would introduce some stipulations about team selections as they do with the that cup competition?  


Who cares?  
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RonMariner
February 1, 2021, 6:00pm

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Quoted from ginnywings


Who cares?  


Can't argue with that.
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GollyGTFC
February 1, 2021, 6:07pm

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I think the EFL should issue a statement reassuring the NL and it’s clubs that if they null and void this season it will not effect future seasons in regards 2 up/2 down between the EFL & NL.
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ginnywings
February 1, 2021, 6:11pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC
I think the EFL should issue a statement reassuring the NL and it’s clubs that if they null and void this season it will not effect future seasons in regards 2 up/2 down between the EFL & NL.


Agreed. Just tell them to forget this season and normal service will be resumed when fans are back.
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Eastendmariner
February 1, 2021, 6:20pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
I think the EFL should issue a statement reassuring the NL and it’s clubs that if they null and void this season it will not effect future seasons in regards 2 up/2 down between the EFL & NL.

Quoted by ginny wings
Agreed. Just tell them to forget this season and normal service will be resumed when fans are back.

Exactly

you would of thought  that someone high up in the EFL would be in contact with NL to advise or at least have some sort of sense as to what the NL are contemplating what to do


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DB
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Quoted from GrimRob
Why does it take so long? They've probably all made up their minds now, maybe one or two tomorrow when there's a bit more info? But surely it can and be done and dusted within 24 hours.


I agree. It is also about time the EFL got a grip of the situation, they should tell the NL to sort it out within 24 hours as the NL have had weeks to make a decision. Regardless of town's position it is not right for clubs at the bottom of league 2 not knowing if they are going to be relegated or not. Can you imagine what the Prem would say to the EFL if the Championship was effect the same way.


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pontoonlew
February 1, 2021, 6:51pm
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The EFL will release their reassurance in around 12 weeks time
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forza ivano
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Quoted from GrimRob
Why does it take so long? They've probably all made up their minds now, maybe one or two tomorrow when there's a bit more info? But surely it can and be done and dusted within 24 hours.


i think there maybe another on line meeting tomorrow to try and get a better idea about the grants/loans situation .also a couple of chairmen saying they need more time to weigh up all the possibilities and possible ramifacations
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
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Quoted from DB


I agree. It is also about time the EFL got a grip of the situation, they should tell the NL to sort it out within 24 hours as the NL have had weeks to make a decision. Regardless of town's position it is not right for clubs at the bottom of league 2 not knowing if they are going to be relegated or not. Can you imagine what the Prem would say to the EFL if the Championship was effect the same way.


There are 20 matches left and realistically anyone up to Crawley on 34 points could still go down. No club in the bottom half of League 2 should think they are safe, so I don’t see why it is wrong ‘for clubs at the bottom of league 2 not knowing if they are going to be relegated or not’.

If you are in League 2 you should play until the season finishes, or the league you are in is suspended (now looking very unlikely). League 2 clubs need to concentrate on not finishing in the bottom two and if they get a reprieve due to the NL being unable to complete satisfactorily then so be it.
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DB
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There are 20 matches left and realistically anyone up to Crawley on 34 points could still go down. No club in the bottom half of League 2 should think they are safe, so I don’t see why it is wrong ‘for clubs at the bottom of league 2 not knowing if they are going to be relegated or not’.

If you are in League 2 you should play until the season finishes, or the league you are in is suspended (now looking very unlikely). League 2 clubs need to concentrate on not finishing in the bottom two and if they get a reprieve due to the NL being unable to complete satisfactorily then so be it.


I totally agree with what you say. However my point was about league management beit Prem, EFL or NL.


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Quoted from psgmariner


Even if it was only two or three teams who can’t afford to finish the season and risk going out of business because of debt it would be too many.  Do the teams who vote to void the season have to carry on regardless if the rest say play on?
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ska face
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1356344026291728384

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1356348336614367234


Clubs have 28 days to cast their vote. Ideally need all Step 2 clubs to vote down resolution 1, then vote for resolution 4 (I think).
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Quoted from ska face
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1356344026291728384

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1356348336614367234


Clubs have 28 days to cast their vote. Ideally need all Step 2 clubs to vote down resolution 1, then vote for resolution 4 (I think).


Well that seems nice and straightforward.


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RonMariner
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28 days!

By then we might have gone on a winning run and have lost interest. Let's hope so.
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Quoted from RonMariner
28 days!

By then we might have gone on a winning run and have lost interest. Let's hope so.


That's  just a legal requirement. I'd expect them to sort it quicker than that, possibly this week, if they can understand it that is. Looks a right old convoluted process.

Making my head hurt trying to decipher it.
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paulgtfc
February 1, 2021, 9:53pm
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Quoted from RonMariner
28 days!

By then we might have gone on a winning run and have lost interest. Let's hope so.


Bloody hell Ron, that’s rampant optimism in the light of ya previous posts of doom n gloom  
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RonMariner
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Quoted from paulgtfc


Bloody hell Ron, that’s rampant optimism in the light of ya previous posts of doom n gloom  


It's said more in hope than expectation!

But I have more hope now than I did a week ago.
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MarinerDevil
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All sorts of tactical voting could occur in that sort of framework.

Also, resolution 1 is weighted towards NL Premier clubs: NLN and NLS only get 4 votes per league.  So if NLN majority votes FOR resolution 1, for example, it counts as 4 votes.  

Could we see clubs that want to see it continue essentially 'filibuster' the vote - voting last minute - in order to get more games played?  

Dear me.
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itsnotcoditshaddock
February 1, 2021, 10:01pm

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Resolution 1 and 4 are weighted too, so step 1 clubs each get 1 vote but step 2 divisions only have 4 votes each. So if 12 clubs in national north vote one way, that is 4 votes.

Think that means that resolutions 1 and 4 only need 8 teams from step 1 to vote to stop the season and it’ll stop as I assume step 2 is a no brainer which way they’ll vote.
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itsnotcoditshaddock
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Quoted from MarinerDevil
All sorts of tactical voting could occur in that sort of framework.

Also, resolution 1 is weighted towards NL Premier clubs: NLN and NLS only get 4 votes per league.  So if NLN majority votes FOR resolution 1, for example, it counts as 4 votes.  

Could we see clubs that want to see it continue essentially 'filibuster' the vote - voting last minute - in order to get more games played?  

Dear me.


If there’s a majority one way or another then not sure any straggling votes will matter?
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paulgtfc
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Quoted from RonMariner


It's said more in hope than expectation!

But I have more hope now than I did a week ago.


Sadly that is a very low bar  
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forza ivano
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i think that resolution1 also needs a  75% majority. My head can't cope with it at this time of night!
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AdamHaddock
February 1, 2021, 10:18pm

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Have they made a decision yet?


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February 1, 2021, 10:20pm

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Quoted from forza ivano
i think that resolution1 also needs a  75% majority. My head can't cope with it at this time of night!


Mine neither. Thought I was getting a handle on it, then weighted votes get mentioned...
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KingstonMariner
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What, they haven’t introduced a single transferable vote system for the options?! Amateurs.


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For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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MarinerDevil
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Just thinking about it.  Resolution 1 will almost certainly fail, won't it?  

If a majority in N/S want the season to end, they're likely to vote against, so 8 votes.

The resolution needs a 75% majority to pass, meaning all 23 NL clubs need to back it for it to pass.  All it takes is for someone like Barnet to vote tactically.

Resolution 4 (null and void, all leagues) only needs a simple majority from that point forward.  
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So which way do we think this one is going to go then?
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ginnywings
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Quoted from Davec
So which way do we think this one is going to go then?


I think they will play on.

Football clubs are always getting themselves into financial straits. They were so keen to get the season started they didn't read the original financial package properly. Had they done, they wouldn't have started. Since they did, they will want to plough on regardless I think.
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forza ivano
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Quoted from MarinerDevil
Just thinking about it.  Resolution 1 will almost certainly fail, won't it?  

If a majority in N/S want the season to end, they're likely to vote against, so 8 votes
.

The resolution needs a 75% majority to pass, meaning all 23 NL clubs need to back it for it to pass.  All it takes is for someone like Barnet to vote tactically.

Resolution 4 (null and void, all leagues) only needs a simple majority from that point forward.  


not necessarily, because the National League Board are hoping/expecting the N/S chairmen to 'play fair' and let the resolution pass and thus each division will decide it's own fate. N/S chairmen could pass resolution 1 and then null and void their season by passing resolution 3

despite what the Times says , i think the NLB are doing everything they possibly can to make sure the National League continues, and i susprct they have the backing of the majority of top division clubs. (i obviously hope i'm completely wrong on this!)
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itsnotcoditshaddock
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Quoted from MarinerDevil
Just thinking about it.  Resolution 1 will almost certainly fail, won't it?  

If a majority in N/S want the season to end, they're likely to vote against, so 8 votes.

The resolution needs a 75% majority to pass, meaning all 23 NL clubs need to back it for it to pass.  All it takes is for someone like Barnet to vote tactically.

Resolution 4 (null and void, all leagues) only needs a simple majority from that point forward.  


Depends whether NLN and NLS teams think they should influence the national league vote, as essentially resolution 1 doesn’t matter to them does it?

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ginnywings
February 1, 2021, 11:09pm

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Quoted from forza ivano


not necessarily, because the National League Board are hoping/expecting the N/S chairmen to 'play fair' and let the resolution pass and thus each division will decide it's own fate. N/S chairmen could pass resolution 1 and then null and void their season by passing resolution 3

despite what the Times says , i think the NLB are doing everything they possibly can to make sure the National League continues, and i susprct they have the backing of the majority of top division clubs. (i obviously hope i'm completely wrong on this!)


That's what I think too. As soon as it was mooted that each step would be allowed a separate vote, i thought the NL would carry on regardless.

Apart from that, with our luck, whatever suits GTFC least will happen. It's usually the way.
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davmariner
February 2, 2021, 12:23am
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I can’t see National League North & South sides wanting to bind itself to what the National League decides, or indeed, wanting to stop the NL having the autonomy to decide whether it’s own league continues.

The only chance is if National League clubs vote tactically against resolution 1 but can’t see enough doing so.


Up The Mariners!
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forza ivano
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just to add another level of intrigue - I've seen mentioned that some clubs (not seen any list of names or how many there are) across NL have terms of corporation that legally prevent them from taking on financial loans - as a protection against misgovernance. So they couldn't avail themselves of DCMS funding if it remains loans even if they wanted to.
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DB
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You couldn't make it up. It's like a never ending story. NL board in dream land.


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Is ok all these owners posturing in public but when it comes down to the reality of taking on big loans with the possibility of no crowds into next season they may think differently in private .


Lower F5
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As I see Resolution 1 is so that Level 1 can make a separate decision to Level 2 clubs which needs a 75% vote to succeed

If successful then Level 1 and Level 2 clubs can vote separately on the outcome of their seasons Resolutions 2 and 3 which only require a 50% vote

If Resolution 1 fails all clubs in  Level 1 and 2  vote on Resolution 4 which only requires 50% to cancel all leagues
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GrimRob
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The whole convoluted voting process seems engineered to let Step 1 vote on their own division.

Resolution 1 is likely to pass, it only seems fair everyone is in charge of their own destiny and the Remainers in Step 1 will want Step 2 out of their vote. The Leavers in Step 2 will want the Remainers in Step 1 out of their vote. The weighting system heaving skews towards Step 1 who are much more pro-Remain.

Step 2 is bound to vote Leave.

Probably at least 75% of Step 1 still have at least a vague hope of making the play-offs. I suspect they'll vote Remain.

If the vote goes through then the EFL have to decide whether it's a far and proper competition to decide a champion and a play-off winner to provide 2 applications for promotion. If there aren't 23 teams competing (the size of the division this year) I don't think it is.With no relegation, it's also debatable!


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Marinerdeano
February 2, 2021, 12:43pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
The whole convoluted voting process seems engineered to let Step 1 vote on their own division.

Resolution 1 is likely to pass, it only seems fair everyone is in charge of their own destiny and the Remainers in Step 1 will want Step 2 out of their vote. The Leavers in Step 2 will want the Remainers in Step 1 out of their vote. The weighting system heaving skews towards Step 1 who are much more pro-Remain.

Step 2 is bound to vote Leave.

Probably at least 75% of Step 1 still have at least a vague hope of making the play-offs. I suspect they'll vote Remain.

If the vote goes through then the EFL have to decide whether it's a far and proper competition to decide a champion and a play-off winner to provide 2 applications for promotion. If there aren't 23 teams competing (the size of the division this year) I don't think it is.With no relegation, it's also debatable!


Worth noting that top 3 may be worth the risk as places 2 and 3 have a far better chance of winning the playoffs given the system for NL now but for those competing for 4th-7th, you've effectively got to win three games to go up, the second of which is guaranteed to be away against a superior team.
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pen penfras
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Quoted from GrimRob
The whole convoluted voting process seems engineered to let Step 1 vote on their own division.

Resolution 1 is likely to pass, it only seems fair everyone is in charge of their own destiny and the Remainers in Step 1 will want Step 2 out of their vote. The Leavers in Step 2 will want the Remainers in Step 1 out of their vote. The weighting system heaving skews towards Step 1 who are much more pro-Remain.

Step 2 is bound to vote Leave.

Probably at least 75% of Step 1 still have at least a vague hope of making the play-offs. I suspect they'll vote Remain.

If the vote goes through then the EFL have to decide whether it's a far and proper competition to decide a champion and a play-off winner to provide 2 applications for promotion. If there aren't 23 teams competing (the size of the division this year) I don't think it is.With no relegation, it's also debatable!


It's not that simple though. Step 1 teams that want to abandon may well vote against resolution 1 in the hope that they get the votes for abandoning from below to make the majority. It would need 17 clubs voting against it, but it could be tight. If several Step 2 clubs want to carry on, which seems unlikely, then they might vote against it too. I'm guessing only teams right at the top would do this.


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ska face
February 2, 2021, 12:59pm

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Quoted from GrimRob
The whole convoluted voting process seems engineered to let Step 1 vote on their own division.

Resolution 1 is likely to pass, it only seems fair everyone is in charge of their own destiny and the Remainers in Step 1 will want Step 2 out of their vote. The Leavers in Step 2 will want the Remainers in Step 1 out of their vote. The weighting system heaving skews towards Step 1 who are much more pro-Remain.

Step 2 is bound to vote Leave.

Probably at least 75% of Step 1 still have at least a vague hope of making the play-offs. I suspect they'll vote Remain.

If the vote goes through then the EFL have to decide whether it's a far and proper competition to decide a champion and a play-off winner to provide 2 applications for promotion. If there aren't 23 teams competing (the size of the division this year) I don't think it is.With no relegation, it's also debatable!


All well & good talking in hypotheticals, but it’s going to come down to cash at the end of the day. Concord Rangers are refusing to resume their fixtures on Saturday as they don’t have the money to pay their players, there will be plenty of other clubs in the same position.

Players won’t play for free, clubs not looking at promotion have no incentive to force themselves into financial trouble just so Torquay or whoever can go up. Will they fulfil their fixtures? Can the league compel them to do so? This is all assuming that loans will even be granted, of which there’s no guarantee.

I really don’t understand the maths behind the weighted votes - can someone please explain it in idiot terms for me?
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GYinScuntland
February 2, 2021, 1:00pm

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I'm fooked if I can keep up with this.
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The National League have fought very hard for those 2 play-off places and not to complete a season would give the EFL an excuse to withdraw them and go back to re-election because the league below is not stable enough for its teams to be relegated into (one of the conditions of relegation is a stable league for former league sides to drop into).

The fear of the trap being closed permanently will weigh on some club's minds. A lot of the Step 1 clubs are very ambitious and plan to go higher, all the former league teams it goes without saying are desperate to get back and won't want to be marooned in non-league forever. Part-time Step 2 teams are a different animal and to them league football is about as far away conceptionally as the EPL is to us.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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Jarmo.Is.God
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Quoted from GYinScuntland
I'm fooked if I can keep up with this.


i feel you
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GrimRob
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Quoted from pen penfras


It's not that simple though. Step 1 teams that want to abandon may well vote against resolution 1 in the hope that they get the votes for abandoning from below to make the majority. It would need 17 clubs voting against it, but it could be tight. If several Step 2 clubs want to carry on, which seems unlikely, then they might vote against it too. I'm guessing only teams right at the top would do this.




It's not 17 because it's not one team one vote. The Step 1 teams have 1 vote (23 total) and the Step 2 leagues each have 4 votes in total (so another 8, less than 1/5 vote per team). That's 31 votes. Wrexham are abstaining just to complicate matters!


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DB
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Quoted from GrimRob
The National League have fought very hard for those 2 play-off places and not to complete a season would give the EFL an excuse to withdraw them and go back to re-election because the league below is not stable enough for its teams to be relegated into (one of the conditions of relegation is a stable league for former league sides to drop into).

The fear of the trap being closed permanently will weigh on some club's minds. A lot of the Step 1 clubs are very ambitious and plan to go higher, all the former league teams it goes without saying are desperate to get back and won't want to be marooned in non-league forever. Part-time Step 2 teams are a different animal and to them league football is about as far away conceptionally as the EPL is to us.


I see where you're coming from. I would have thought that covid would be an exceptional state of affairs that makes all leagues unstable. The EFL has already seen postponements, so I can't see them losing their 2 places.


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MarinerDevil
February 2, 2021, 1:46pm
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I can't see any justification for re-election being reintroduced any time soon.  Yes, the National League have mismanaged the situation but the EFL were equally underprepared and were bailed out by Premier League money.  It would be hypocritical to accuse the NL of being 'unstable' and remove promotion to L2.  League 1 downwards should have been put into hibernation until the return of fans, or central funding for the whole season should have been secured prior to play resuming.
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davmariner
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Quoted from GrimRob


It's not 17 because it's not one team one vote. The Step 1 teams have 1 vote (23 total) and the Step 2 leagues each have 4 votes in total (so another 8, less than 1/5 vote per team). That's 31 votes. So 18 out of 23 (78%) Step 1 clubs voting for the Resolution would carry it, whatever Step 2 do. Wrexham are abstaining just to complicate matters!


Resolution 1 requires 75%, so it’s also in the hands of step2 clubs. 24 votes are needed for it to go through.


Up The Mariners!
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GrimRob
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Quoted from davmariner


Resolution 1 requires 75%, so it’s also in the hands of step2 clubs. 24 votes are needed for it to go through.


Correct. I have removed the incorrect sentence about 18 votes from my post!

I still think the clubs will vote to carry on though! Some clubs refuse to so regardless which is where attention will turn to.


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pontoonlew
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This rubbish about EFL stopping 2 teams going up in future is just that, rubbish. It's an excuse the bigger teams in NL are using to force other clubs into submission and as far as I've seen the EFL haven't suggested that's the case at any point.
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davmariner
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Quoted from GrimRob


Correct. I have removed the incorrect sentence about 18 votes from my post!

I still think the clubs will vote to carry on though! Some clubs refuse to so regardless which is where attention will turn to.


Agreed, yes would be surprised if resolution 1 doesn’t pass.


Up The Mariners!
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forza ivano
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latest!

National League North & South clubs have set up a meeting for this evening (Tuesday). This appears to be one amongst themselves, not involving the NL executive, the Premier teams or any outside bodies. The intention appears to be to see it they can come up with a common position. One of the main items for discussion will certainly be the instruction the National League executive issued last week that NLN&S matches are to resume from Saturday 6th of February. Many chairmen are clearly unhappy about this, with several having already broken cover and stated their clubs will refuse to do so until the funding issue is settled. One assumes those chairmen will be seeking wider support so they can't be 'picked off' with threats of sanctions for not fulfilling fixtures. If enough clubs do join in with a refusal to play it would then become very difficult for the NL executive to do anything about this instruction being ignored.
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Gaffer58
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Christ, with all that’s going on in the conference etc, are they playing or not, are they getting a loan or a grant, it makes one pleased that we’re in the EFL where the powers that be are decisive and everyone knows the way he league is going.
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Quoted from forza ivano
latest!

National League North & South clubs have set up a meeting for this evening (Tuesday). This appears to be one amongst themselves, not involving the NL executive, the Premier teams or any outside bodies. The intention appears to be to see it they can come up with a common position. One of the main items for discussion will certainly be the instruction the National League executive issued last week that NLN&S matches are to resume from Saturday 6th of February. Many chairmen are clearly unhappy about this, with several having already broken cover and stated their clubs will refuse to do so until the funding issue is settled. One assumes those chairmen will be seeking wider support so they can't be 'picked off' with threats of sanctions for not fulfilling fixtures. If enough clubs do join in with a refusal to play it would then become very difficult for the NL executive to do anything about this instruction being ignored.



Any news?


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diehardmariner
February 3, 2021, 1:33pm
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[tweet]1356949252010876930[/tweet]

Gloucester look to be breaking ranks with the majority of the N/S judging by this tweet.  Flyde, also from the North, voted to keep the season going too.

Bath in the South and Darlington in the North stating they've voted to curtail the season.

The fallout in terms of club relationships could be lengthy I reckon.
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ska face
February 3, 2021, 1:38pm

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Some of these chairman should invest these loans in the buckets they’ll be shaking in a couple of years/months.

Fylde are being bankrolled well beyond their natural level as it is, so no surprises they want to carry on.
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davmariner
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Quoted from forza ivano
latest!

National League North & South clubs have set up a meeting for this evening (Tuesday). This appears to be one amongst themselves, not involving the NL executive, the Premier teams or any outside bodies. The intention appears to be to see it they can come up with a common position. One of the main items for discussion will certainly be the instruction the National League executive issued last week that NLN&S matches are to resume from Saturday 6th of February. Many chairmen are clearly unhappy about this, with several having already broken cover and stated their clubs will refuse to do so until the funding issue is settled. One assumes those chairmen will be seeking wider support so they can't be 'picked off' with threats of sanctions for not fulfilling fixtures. If enough clubs do join in with a refusal to play it would then become very difficult for the NL executive to do anything about this instruction being ignored.


Cheers for the updates Forza.


Up The Mariners!
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diehardmariner
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Also seven points off top with 3 games in hand off top of the league....yep, Gloucester City.  


There's two teams in the North with 30 games to play (Hereford and York), one team (Darlington) with 31 to play.

The final day for games is May 29th.  With a restart this coming weekend, that's only 17 weekends to fit them.  So just shy of Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday-Tuesday for four straight months.  That's with part-time squads, a high likelihood of further Covid outbreaks, circuit breakers etc, potential snowed/rained off games. Oh, not even factoring in any commitments in the Trophy or Vase.

Impossible.


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pontoonlew
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Think we can safely say NLN and NLS are going to be null & void.

However, I think it seems almost certain now that the NL will not follow suit.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
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Quoted from pontoonlew
Think we can safely say NLN and NLS are going to be null & void.

However, I think it seems almost certain now that the NL will not follow suit.


What do you base your view of the NL on? There is so little news on this it's difficult to know what the hell is going on.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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TownSNAFU5
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Covid will impact on this impossible timetable.  5 days of continuous snow forecast next week.   This will not help already saturated and poor quality pitches.
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Quoted from pontoonlew
Think we can safely say NLN and NLS are going to be null & void.

However, I think it seems almost certain now that the NL will not follow suit.


That's my reading of it too. There are some big challenges for the NL to complete the season, but there is clearly the will to try and I think that will be enough.
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Quoted from forza ivano


Why has it become so complicated?

Why not a simple:
Carry on / null & void
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Covid will impact on this impossible timetable.  5 days of continuous snow forecast next week.   This will not help already saturated and poor quality pitches.


Not just in the National League  


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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TuckerJenkins
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Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God


Why has it become so complicated?

Why not a simple:
Carry on / null & void


Because they are voting for two levels at the same time


Flippin' 'eck Tucker!
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If tbe non leaguers end their season, what happens to our fringe or unwanted players?

I hear the word - furlough -  but is that allowed to choose / rmove a large percentage of the wage bill just because they cannot be moved on?
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pontoonlew
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What do you base your view of the NL on? There is so little news on this it's difficult to know what the hell is going on.


Few things, firstly the fact 'Option 1' will not go through, NLN/S having 4 votes in total mean it's virtually impossible it'll get 75%.

Secondly, once the two are treated as separate entities, the threat of relegation is now gone for the teams at the bottom of the National League. It was already on a knife edge anyway, that info will almost certainly tip it over the edge.

Hartlepool, Sutton, Notts County, Maidenhead, Altrincham, Solihull, Chesterfield and Boreham Wood have all already indicated that they'll be looking to continue, that means there's VERY little room to maneuverer on top of the fact Torquay, Stockport will also be voting that way without doubt. And as if that wasn't enough, Wrexham have abstained which means it's only going to take a couple of extra votes to see it continue.

I don't like it and I think it's absolute suicide, but it looks like a foregone conclusion with all the above considered.
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IlkleyMariner
February 3, 2021, 4:57pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Few things, firstly the fact 'Option 1' will not go through, NLN/S having 4 votes in total mean it's virtually impossible it'll get 75%.

Secondly, once the two are treated as separate entities, the threat of relegation is now gone for the teams at the bottom of the National League. It was already on a knife edge anyway, that info will almost certainly tip it over the edge.

Hartlepool, Sutton, Notts County, Maidenhead, Altrincham, Solihull, Chesterfield and Boreham Wood have all already indicated that they'll be looking to continue, that means there's VERY little room to maneuverer on top of the fact Torquay, Stockport will also be voting that way without doubt. And as if that wasn't enough, Wrexham have abstained which means it's only going to take a couple of extra votes to see it continue.

I don't like it and I think it's absolute suicide, but it looks like a foregone conclusion with all the above considered.



Hi. Think you may have misread it.
Firstly the two regional leagues will have 8 votes between them
Secondly to vote for separate decisions for National League and N and S individually needs 75% majority, so if N and S want to block that they can provided only 1 National League club votes with them.
If there is a vote for all clubs together it looks like end season now.
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pontoonlew
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner



Hi. Think you may have misread it.
Firstly the two regional leagues will have 8 votes between them
Secondly to vote for separate decisions for National League and N and S individually needs 75% majority, so if N and S want to block that they can provided only 1 National League club votes with them.
If there is a vote for all clubs together it looks like end season now.


They wouldn’t, they’d need 16 NL teams to vote with them, which isn’t going to happen.

NLN/S will then almost certainly null and void leaving NL without relegation, leaving it highly likely they’ll continue given the number of clubs backing the cause to continue.
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RichMariner
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Even if the threat of relegation is taken away, I wonder if a team like Dover will want to continue playing because it still means them taking on a debt.

For what? They won't be going down. They'll simply be playing for nothing while taking a loan they could do without.

I don't know what's worse. Being forced to play on when you can't afford it, and putting your whole club's future in jeopardy (or, at the very least, making the next few seasons financially difficult) or having your season cut short when you had a chance of promotion.

The first option puts a lot of clubs in a very financially difficult position. The second option avoids taking on a debt but could get complicated with retaining players and preparing for next season.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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pontoonlew
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Quoted from RichMariner
Even if the threat of relegation is taken away, I wonder if a team like Dover will want to continue playing because it still means them taking on a debt.

For what? They won't be going down. They'll simply be playing for nothing while taking a loan they could do without.

I don't know what's worse. Being forced to play on when you can't afford it, and putting your whole club's future in jeopardy (or, at the very least, making the next few seasons financially difficult) or having your season cut short when you had a chance of promotion.

The first option puts a lot of clubs in a very financially difficult position. The second option avoids taking on a debt but could get complicated with retaining players and preparing for next season.


You need at least 11 teams to think like that and the league is very tight.

I don’t think the numbers add up and it’s best for our own mental health that we face up to the fact we’re going to need to survive off our own steam.
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MeanwoodMariner
February 3, 2021, 6:14pm

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Aside from all the clinical financial calculations, don’t forget that a lot of NL teams are professional. They want to play, it’s what they do and they enjoy it. Their fans care just as much as we care about our club so there’s pressure from the fan base to keep going if possible. They’d rather not take on debt, but not to the point of not playing for another 8 months.

This isn’t a difficult situation to predict. They will vote to vote separately. Then the North and South divisions will be scrapped. The national league will carry on.
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Mariner93er
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We talk about teams wanting to play in because they still have a chance of promotion, but we’re talking something like 11 teams for two places. I can see a few of those teams weighing things up and deciding it’s be too big of a risk to continue.
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DB
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It's always better to do things under our own steam, but plan B  is good option. You do how to worry for fans in the NL if their clubs are forced to continue without adequate finance. Will bankruptcy be waiting for them.


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Wow 44 pages and counting if we were mid table no one would care😃
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forza ivano
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Quoted from forza ivano



Given the weather forecast, presumably the NL expect airport style snow clearing of the pitches and teams transport by helicopter into the grounds. Of course because of covid they would have to be chinooks for social distancing. The cost would be born by the home team as they would have failed to provide adequate cover for the pitch and undersoil heating, not to mention the failure of snowploughs to clear a bus route from the oppositions ground.

I think this sums up the stupidity the NL is going through. Many teams are in the process of going bankrupt and the NL board head in sand shouts carry on as normal. Problem what problem.


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RichMariner
February 3, 2021, 7:37pm
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Quoted from Mariner93er
We talk about teams wanting to play in because they still have a chance of promotion, but we’re talking something like 11 teams for two places. I can see a few of those teams weighing things up and deciding it’s be too big of a risk to continue.


This.

There will be some difficult decisions for clubs to make. Was it Port Vale last season who accepted that positions should be determined by ppg, leaving them just short? They drew a lot of praise for that.

Not quite the same situation of course, but if 11 teams are in the running for 2 promotion spots, that's going to leave 9 more than a little disappointed at the end of the season - not promoted and saddled with a loan that will be around their necks for a couple of decades (think I read they're given 20 years to repay at a low rate of interest?).

It'll make them, and the NL, poorer for the future.

I get that they'll want to play - for the players and their fans. However, these are extraordinary times and they require extraordinary measures. They also need some sound, logical thinking, which means looking beyond the end of their noses.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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These threats from the NL to Clubs sound as if they have been trained by Putin.  Such strongarm tactics are likely to backfire.
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Eastendmariner
February 3, 2021, 7:50pm
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why risk being ten years in debt for the sake of a slim chance of going up let's face no fans no memories no away trips while yr team wins promotion Only the promotion parade through the high street watching from your TV because we are still under lockdown

NL JUST SCRAP THE SEASON  


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Seen the Mariners win AWAY at 70 league Grounds

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ska face
February 3, 2021, 7:53pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
These threats from the NL to Clubs sound as if they have been trained by Putin.  Such strongarm tactics are likely to backfire.


Yep, given that the whole issue is the fault of the NL, you’d expect a bit of humility and perhaps something of a charm offensive on their end to try and keep teams sweet. It’s in their interest for the leagues to continue, getting people’s backs up over a non-issue like this is going to be counterproductive.
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Eastendmariner
February 3, 2021, 7:54pm
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From what I can remember most of them can't afford to print a Matchday ticket still using Bingo tickets as a means of  entry I'm not having a go but the financial problems are there to see.


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toontown
February 3, 2021, 8:07pm
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This is easy to predict, not from an understanding of the financial situations of the clubs, or from a reading of the political situation in none league - just simply from knowing that a voiding of the season would suit town best. I can therefore confidently predict the opposite will happen...
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forza ivano
February 3, 2021, 8:27pm

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BACKLASH BEGINS
https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1357044900420857860

Tonbridge Angels have added to the list of signatories
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DB
February 3, 2021, 9:12pm
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Reading between the lines it looks like these 18 clubs are struggling financially and are asking the NL for help. As said on many posts loans will not help them so whose going to? They obviously want to keep the NL as 66 clubs but if they have no money to pay with what can the NL do? Even if their players played for free their would still be the overheads of the ground plus travelling costs for the away team.

All the NL seem to be doing is dithering, probably at the beck and call of the larger more financially stable clubs. The NL board seem to have forgotten the names of Macclesfield and Bury.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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moosey_club
February 3, 2021, 9:14pm
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Quoted from toontown
This is easy to predict, not from an understanding of the financial situations of the clubs, or from a reading of the political situation in none league - just simply from knowing that a voiding of the season would suit town best. I can therefore confidently predict the opposite will happen...


There is a position for you as science officer on the Starship Enterprise , such logic would serve you well. Do you by any chance have pointy ears ?


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ginnywings
February 3, 2021, 9:23pm

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All this palaver and back biting so two teams from 66 have the chance of getting into the EFL. It's this sort of short sightedness and pursuit of glory at all costs that gets teams in financial trouble in the first place.

Bigger, richer clubs, strong arming the smaller ones for their own ends. Crazy!
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TownSNAFU5
February 3, 2021, 9:54pm
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Bigger clubs strong-arming smaller clubs.   Like Pompey not paying us money rightly due when in the Championship equivalent?
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KingstonMariner
February 3, 2021, 9:59pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
All this palaver and back biting so two teams from 66 have the chance of getting into the EFL. It's this sort of short sightedness and pursuit of glory at all costs that gets teams in financial trouble in the first place.

Bigger, richer clubs, strong arming the smaller ones for their own ends. Crazy!


Same thing as people buying stuff on tick and getting into debt because they see the shiny shiny stuff dangled in front of them.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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RonMariner
February 3, 2021, 10:25pm

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Quoted from forza ivano


Do you have to throw a six to start?
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BlackandWhiteBarmy2
February 3, 2021, 10:36pm
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Darlington have already said that they will vote to pass Resolutions 1 and then vote to pass Resolution 3. I can see a lot of the NL North and South teams doing the same, thus allowing them to end their season without annoying the bigger clubs in the NL by allowing them to decide their own fate.


And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
These threats from the NL to Clubs sound as if they have been trained by Putin.  Such strongarm tactics are likely to backfire.


They reminded me of Ursula Von Der Leyen's to Astra Zeneca and look how that ended up!


I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
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Marinerdeano
February 3, 2021, 10:54pm
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Most NL Prem teams keeping pretty quiet on the formal vote. Like a bit of a game of poker, keeping their cards close to their chests, with a 28 day window to perhaps see where they are then position wise, with the league being quite tight.
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forza ivano
February 4, 2021, 2:57pm

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Kettering, Chippenham and Slough have announced today that they won't be fulfilling the weekend fixtures. Interesting to see what the NL will do in response to this insubordination!
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ska face
February 4, 2021, 3:05pm

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Quoted from forza ivano
Kettering, Chippenham and Slough have announced today that they won't be fulfilling the weekend fixtures. Interesting to see what the NL will do in response to this insubordination!


Probably fine the offenders and tell them to add it onto their loan applications 🙃
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GrimRob
February 4, 2021, 3:09pm

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Quoted from forza ivano
Kettering, Chippenham and Slough have announced today that they won't be fulfilling the weekend fixtures. Interesting to see what the NL will do in response to this insubordination!


"Any Club without just cause failing to fulfil an engagement to play a Competition match on the appointed date shall for each offence be liable to expulsion from the Competition and/ or such other disciplinary action the Board may determine, including the deduction of up to a maximum of three points from the offending Club’s record, any expenses incurred by their opponents, and a fine. "



'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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pen penfras
February 4, 2021, 3:25pm

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Quoted from GrimRob


"Any Club without just cause failing to fulfil an engagement to play a Competition match on the appointed date shall for each offence be liable to expulsion from the Competition and/ or such other disciplinary action the Board may determine, including the deduction of up to a maximum of three points from the offending Club’s record, any expenses incurred by their opponents, and a fine. "



What bizarre legislation. 'We can kick you out, or dock a maximum of 3 points'

I can't see that happening, but you never know.

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DB
February 4, 2021, 3:55pm
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Quoted from GrimRob


"Any Club without just cause failing to fulfil an engagement to play a Competition match on the appointed date shall for each offence be liable to expulsion from the Competition and/ or such other disciplinary action the Board may determine, including the deduction of up to a maximum of three points from the offending Club’s record, any expenses incurred by their opponents, and a fine. "



Can't see them being expelled, can't fine them if they've no money, no opponents expenses because they've told them now they aren't playing so it looks like 3 points. The only thing is what happens if more do the same.

NL in a total mess. Don't play and we punish you or do play and you might easily go bust.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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moosey_club
February 4, 2021, 6:39pm
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Quoted from DB


Can't see them being expelled, can't fine them if they've no money, no opponents expenses because they've told them now they aren't playing so it looks like 3 points. The only thing is what happens if more do the same.

NL in a total mess. Don't play and we punish you or do play and you might easily go bust.


Just bung the drain , leave the hose on Friday night....oh dear match postponed its waterlogged ...beyond our control  


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2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
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ginnywings
February 4, 2021, 8:14pm

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Quoted from moosey_club


Just bung the drain , leave the hose on Friday night....oh dear match postponed its waterlogged ...beyond our control  


They'd have to doctor the water meter first. They couldn't afford the bill.
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forza ivano
February 4, 2021, 9:05pm

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Quoted from forza ivano
Kettering, Chippenham and Slough have announced today that they won't be fulfilling the weekend fixtures. Interesting to see what the NL will do in response to this insubordination!


Crzon Ashton have joined the club, whilst Billericay will only be playing non contract and under 23 players v St Albans on Saturday (so much for playing on and maintaining the integrity of the league....)
Blyth Spartans voting for the season to be null and voided.
Incidentally Simon Heslop is club captain there, and of their tweets today congratulates him on the arrival of a daughter
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Norseman
February 4, 2021, 9:31pm
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NL will carry on with no threat of relegation. Teams not in promotion race will all do what billericay are doing
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KingstonMariner
February 4, 2021, 9:31pm
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Quoted from moosey_club


Just bung the drain , leave the hose on Friday night....oh dear match postponed its waterlogged ...beyond our control  


If it’s anything like the ground here they won’t need to


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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ginnywings
February 4, 2021, 10:13pm

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Quoted from Norseman
NL will carry on with no threat of relegation. Teams not in promotion race will all do what billericay are doing


I've been saying this for a while. The league will have no integrity and the teams at the top will be winning easily against the also rans

It's not a full and fair competition if that happens and they ought to just forget it this season. I think some clubs in step 1 will refuse to play if they vote to carry on.
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The Yard Dog
February 4, 2021, 10:45pm
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The incoming cold and snowny weather will have a impact on the fixtures in the lower leagues, possible back log of fixtures.
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GrimRob
February 4, 2021, 11:06pm

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Quoted from ginnywings


I've been saying this for a while. The league will have no integrity and the teams at the top will be winning easily against the also rans

It's not a full and fair competition if that happens and they ought to just forget it this season. I think some clubs in step 1 will refuse to play if they vote to carry on.


The EFL need to confirm that's acceptable if that happens. A mickey mouse competition to decide league places is not within the spirit of the rules.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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ginnywings
February 4, 2021, 11:22pm

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Quoted from GrimRob


The EFL need to confirm that's acceptable if that happens. A mickey mouse competition to decide league places is not within the spirit of the rules.


Agreed and the EFL are being very quiet on the issue. Unless they are waiting to see which way the vote goes.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 4, 2021, 11:29pm
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Quoted from ginnywings


Agreed and the EFL are being very quiet on the issue. Unless they are waiting to see which way the vote goes.


It is very, very rare that I disagree with you on anything (other than Dave Gilbert’s boot size - 6.5, not 7) but surely whichever sh1t teams finish in the bottom two in League 2 should be relegated.

It’s the bottom two in the League who will have failed.

But it won’t be us because Stefan Payne’s going to be banging braces like a lusty orthodontist
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DB
February 4, 2021, 11:54pm
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At the moment the dithering board of the NL are making the EFL Board a laughing stock. The EFL Board weeks ago should have grasped the nettle and told the NL what was expected.

I agree that the leagues relegation issue should be decided by a teams performance under normal circumstances, but these are not normal circumstances. The EFL should now step in and say one way or the other if relegation is or is not going to take place.

If they do some will like the decision and some will not, either way all would know what will happen.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 5, 2021, 12:07am
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Quoted from DB
At the moment the dithering board of the NL are making the EFL Board a laughing stock. The EFL Board weeks ago should have grasped the nettle and told the NL what was expected.

I agree that the leagues relegation issue should be decided by a teams performance under normal circumstances, but these are not normal circumstances. The EFL should now step in and say one way or the other if relegation is or is not going to take place.

If they do some will like the decision and some will not, either way all would know what will happen.


With the peak plateauing / dropping and only a couple of weeks until the weather improves, the L2 season will complete. So what difference does it make if the NL doesn’t complete? The bottom two in L2 deserve to be relegated. Hopefully it won’t be us.
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ginnywings
February 5, 2021, 12:38am

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It is very, very rare that I disagree with you on anything (other than Dave Gilbert’s boot size - 6.5, not 7) but surely whichever sh1t teams finish in the bottom two in League 2 should be relegated.

It’s the bottom two in the League who will have failed.

But it won’t be us because Stefan Payne’s going to be banging braces like a lusty orthodontist


Yes, if it's a fair competition.

How can it be fair in the NL if some teams have played opponents when they were at full strength and focused on winning, then those same teams get suddenly depleted and become much easier to beat?

Let's say Torquay played a team in the lower reaches and lost to them earlier in the season, then one of their promotion rivals plays them in the coming weeks when they are much weakened and roll them over easily. How is that fair?

What if some teams decide they can't carry on and refuse to play? What happens to their record? What if some teams had played them and some hadn't; then what?

That's without the covid situation. Teams are saying they can't afford to test players and are being given no help to do so, putting their players at risk.

I have no problem with the two worst teams being relegated from League 2, even if one of them is ourselves, but there needs to be a fully functioning league for them to drop into, that's the rules. You can't relegate two teams from the stable EFL league into an unstable National League, which itself will be operating with no relegation.
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DB
February 5, 2021, 12:49am
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With the peak plateauing / dropping and only a couple of weeks until the weather improves, the L2 season will complete. So what difference does it make if the NL doesn’t complete? The bottom two in L2 deserve to be relegated. Hopefully it won’t be us.


Please don't take up being a weather forecaster. That apart I agree with you and tried to make the point that the weak leadership need to act, one way or the other. If the bottom 2 drop fair dues, but let them drop into a properly managed league.


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 5, 2021, 1:18am
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Quoted from ginnywings

I have no problem with the two worst teams being relegated from League 2, even if one of them is ourselves, but there needs to be a fully functioning league for them to drop into, that's the rules. You can't relegate two teams from the stable EFL league into an unstable National League, which itself will be operating with no relegation.


That is true

I support the underdog and I’m worried I’m going to feel dirty come the end of the season. But I agree that this season (and last season but we didn’t really know it) is the year to be dirty for the future of our club
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Marinerdeano
February 5, 2021, 7:12pm
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https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1357756501868220417?s=19

Keeping a tab on it all. Defiinitely think some of those mid table conference prem teams are going to give it a few games and see where they are. We need a top 7 or 8 pack to pull away!
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MarinerDevil
February 5, 2021, 8:47pm
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I've stopped looking at it now.  Some clubs are dragging it out as expected and we're just setting ourselves up for disappointment by willing the outcome to fall our way.  

We need to do it on merit.
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BraStrap
February 6, 2021, 5:23pm
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Less than 10 games played today across the 3 divisions. Not in a rush are they?
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IlkleyMariner
February 6, 2021, 6:02pm
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Think we have to assume we must survive based on our own performances
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Hagrid
February 6, 2021, 6:06pm

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Rolling out testing so Its gonna continue im sure
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Dan
February 6, 2021, 6:07pm

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Quoted from IlkleyMariner
Think we have to assume we must survive based on our own performances


The reason this thread has hit 49 pages is because it’s obvious we can’t.


Quoted from John Fenty, April 2013
I deconstructed the flag to the point where it was safe and couldn’t be considered a danger
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RonMariner
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Quoted from Dan


The reason this thread has hit 49 pages is because it’s obvious we can’t.


Indeed.

I am past the denial stage, past the anger stage. Now I'm in the acceptance stage.
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A league’s integrity cannot be changed midway through you cannot start with promotion and relegation and then change your mind teams at the bottom. are going to not play as there are no consequences

I think any team relegation league 2 have a legal challenge on this
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Eastendmariner
February 6, 2021, 7:33pm
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I have to say I totally agree  any league that changes its mind about relegation but plays on exspect img promotion loses intergrity  


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MrFisherman
February 7, 2021, 7:12am

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It's easy to work out that the National League will vote to void  their league
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ginnywings
February 7, 2021, 8:47am

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Quoted from MrFisherman
It's easy to work out that the National League will vote to void  their league


Really?

I don't understand the voting system at all.
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ska face
February 7, 2021, 8:57am

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Quoted from MrFisherman
It's easy to work out that the National League will vote to void  their league


In the words of my old maths teachers - “please show your working”. I could do with some good news today.

I’ve seen the league are offering free testing, but this seems like a bit of a half measure and doesn’t address the fundamental issue which is a lack of funding to replace lost gate receipts.

From my rough calculations and the statements issued recently, I think it’s gonna be very tight. Res 1 will pass so clubs will vote to decide the date on their own division.

As for Res 2 (end Nat League), you need 12 from 23 teams to vote FOR. You’ve already got 3 against and 1 abstention, with 1 for. So you effectively need 11 from 18 to vote for. Torquay will presumably vote against, so you’re needing 11 from 17.
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GrimRob
February 7, 2021, 10:06am

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They have 28 days to vote in which is ludicrous in itself.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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pontoonlew
February 7, 2021, 10:34am
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Quoted from GrimRob
They have 28 days to vote in which is ludicrous in itself.


Teams that want it to continue will hold off right until the end to force the hand of others. I still cannot see any scenario in which enough will vote to void the season, the decision to provide tests was the nail in our free pass coffin.
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ginnywings
February 7, 2021, 10:35am

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With Wrexham abstaining, we could get an 11 team split, then what?

I think they will vote to play on personally. Football clubs are not renowned for their reticence in getting into debt, especially if they think there is a chance of promotion.

The fun will start if some refuse to carry on.
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ska face
February 7, 2021, 10:41am

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Deadline is roughly three weeks tomorrow (1st March) ish?

All clubs expecting to have bids submitted, assessed and approved by then? Or half a season’s worth of funding secured from private sources in that time? Be unlikely. Are teams really going vote to carry on without any guarantee of funding for a second time this season?

The 28 days can’t be extended, think the NL might force a few hands in having issued the resolutions so early - think they want it voiding. Like we said a while back, might come down to who can save face better and pin the blame on the other parties.
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ska face
February 7, 2021, 10:45am

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Quoted from ginnywings
With Wrexham abstaining, we could get an 11 team split, then what?


Season goes on. Resolution needs 50% majority to pass, so over 11.5 votes. Anything else and it falls.
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TownSNAFU5
February 7, 2021, 10:53am
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5 days of snow, waterlogged pitches, more NL postponements expected and a backlog of matches to be played;  all helps our cause.
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pontoonlew
February 7, 2021, 10:55am
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Quoted from ska face
Deadline is roughly three weeks tomorrow (1st March) ish?

All clubs expecting to have bids submitted, assessed and approved by then? Or half a season’s worth of funding secured from private sources in that time? Be unlikely. Are teams really going vote to carry on without any guarantee of funding for a second time this season?

The 28 days can’t be extended, think the NL might force a few hands in having issued the resolutions so early - think they want it voiding. Like we said a while back, might come down to who can save face better and pin the blame on the other parties.




One thing is for sure, if we were 30 points clear at the top, Honest Phil would be voting to end regardless.

Sounds very naive but that division is going to be a excrement show next year and if we do drop, we’ll be taking on some very skint competition.
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mariner91
February 7, 2021, 11:09am
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Quoted from pontoonlew




One thing is for sure, if we were 30 points clear at the top, Honest Phil would be voting to end regardless.

Sounds very naive but that division is going to be a excrement show next year and if we do drop, we’ll be taking on some very skint competition.


My thoughts too. Obviously it would be fairly horrendous if we do go down but if they continue and push themselves all into debt then the standard may be lower than it would be otherwise. And I would trust SSP to be able to take advantage of this far more than I would Fenty and his not-so-merry men.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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ska face
February 7, 2021, 11:16am

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Good interview with the Southport manager here (starts 1:30 in). Sums up what a lot of clubs will be thinking regarding the NL board & the position clubs are in.

https://youtu.be/a1DozHzz5SU


Don’t think there’s any love lost between clubs and the authorities. The point about knowingly trading insolvent is important. Get enough clubs to think like this and you never know.
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ginnywings
February 7, 2021, 11:24am

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Quoted from mariner91


My thoughts too. Obviously it would be fairly horrendous if we do go down but if they continue and push themselves all into debt then the standard may be lower than it would be otherwise. And I would trust SSP to be able to take advantage of this far more than I would Fenty and his not-so-merry men.


We would need to use the parachute payments well and throw some money at it. Hopefully do what Crawley and Fleetwood did when we were down there and dominate the league.

I fear though that they will vote for a salary cap and we would stuck down there indefinitely.

This could turn out to be a bittersweet season with the new owners we have craved, but end up marooned in the black hole of the NL. It would be so GTFC and the final act of a disastrous reign from JF.
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Yoda
February 7, 2021, 11:28am
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How can you change a league halfway through a season and for it not have its integrity tested.
I think there would be a legal challenge from any clubs relegated from league 2
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pontoonlew
February 7, 2021, 11:43am
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Quoted from Yoda
How can you change a league halfway through a season and for it not have its integrity tested.
I think there would be a legal challenge from any clubs relegated from league 2


As much as I want to agree, that’s exactly what we’re asking to happen in our own league
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ska face
February 7, 2021, 11:54am

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The real test of integrity will come if teams are forced to play without the means to do so, because others want to chance it. Are you going to get players on strike, first teams being furloughed and replaced with youth players, games postponed and massive fixture backlogs?

I can remember what a farce the league & playoffs became when we were down there because the Conference Board had booked Wembley for the playoff final and Vanarama Big Day Out, so wouldn’t even contemplate changing dates due to contractual/commercial reasons. Nothing will have changed since then.
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Marinerdeano
February 7, 2021, 12:08pm
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No doubt the National League have acted appallingly here. I do feel sorry for clubs but I still can't believe not one asked for the specific funding arrangement in writing. They are dragging out a farcical season and now potentially running their club into unnecessary debt and for what? Probably 1 other promotion place (other than Torquay) that will be up for grabs again next season.
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DB
February 7, 2021, 4:23pm
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Quoted from ska face
The real test of integrity will come if teams are forced to play without the means to do so, because others want to chance it. Are you going to get players on strike, first teams being furloughed and replaced with youth players, games postponed and massive fixture backlogs?

I can remember what a farce the league & playoffs became when we were down there because the Conference Board had booked Wembley for the playoff final and Vanarama Big Day Out, so wouldn’t even contemplate changing dates due to contractual/commercial reasons. Nothing will have changed since then.


Firstly it's good to see  you up running after yesterdays result, you were a bit down I seem to recall.

You make a very good point about the means to do so. I believe that it is illegal for a company to trade if you are insolvent. As, like Town, many of the clubs will be LTD companies then without sufficient income they may be trading illegally. The NL should keep a watch on this as it is not only a matter of integrity but a formality.

If Town were to drop then I think a reasonable case could be brought against the NL for none of their teams to be promoted as many of their teams may be, or traded while insolvent.



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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 7, 2021, 4:29pm
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Quoted from DB


Firstly it's good to see  you up running after yesterdays result, you were a bit down I seem to recall.

You make a very good point about the means to do so. I believe that it is illegal for a company to trade if you are insolvent. As, like Town, many of the clubs will be LTD companies then without sufficient income they may be trading illegally. The NL should keep a watch on this as it is not only a matter of integrity but a formality.

If Town were to drop then I think a reasonable case could be brought against the NL for none of their teams to be promoted as many of their teams may be, or traded while insolvent.



A company can still trade if it is insolvent
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Hagrid
February 7, 2021, 4:31pm

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Dovers chairman has resigned from the NL board. Indicates to me as if season will continue
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ginnywings
February 7, 2021, 4:37pm

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It'll continue because the haves will prevail over the have-nots. It is always thus.

Whether it should is a different matter, but the teams with a sniff of promotion will make sure it does.
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DB
February 7, 2021, 4:38pm
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A company can still trade if it is insolvent


For how long? I'm thinking BHS, House of Fraser, Debenhams etc


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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 7, 2021, 4:50pm
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Quoted from DB


For how long? I'm thinking BHS, House of Fraser, Debenhams etc


If I made a loan to GTFC plc of £2.5m and, say a director, let’s call her Joanne Plenty, ran off with the money. The company would then be insolvent, as liabilities exceed assets.

It could still continue to trade.

Particularly if I agreed a generous (and slow) repayment plan
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pen penfras
February 7, 2021, 5:03pm

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If I made a loan to GTFC plc of £2.5m and, say a director, let’s call her Joanne Plenty, ran off with the money. The company would then be insolvent, as liabilities exceed assets.

It could still continue to trade.

Particularly if I agreed a generous (and slow) repayment plan


That's not what insolvency is.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 7, 2021, 5:06pm
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Quoted from pen penfras


That's not what insolvency is.


DB was talking about being insolvent.

If liabilities exceed assets you are insolvent.
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DB
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If I made a loan to GTFC plc of £2.5m and, say a director, let’s call her Joanne Plenty, ran off with the money. The company would then be insolvent, as liabilities exceed assets.

It could still continue to trade.

Particularly if I agreed a generous (and slow) repayment plan


So why didn't it work for BHS etc. This is not a pop at you but a look at something that might help Town if the worst happened.

UTM


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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 7, 2021, 5:13pm
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Quoted from DB


So why didn't it work for BHS etc. This is not a pop at you but a look at something that might help Town if the worst happened.

UTM


You can make an agreement with creditors. But it depends on who the creditors are and whether the company has any chance of becoming solvent again.
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DB
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You can make an agreement with creditors. But it depends on who the creditors are and whether the company has any chance of becoming solvent again.


So in the event of the worst do you think it is something Town could look at? Also the word 'Integrity'  would come into it somewhere.



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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 7, 2021, 5:21pm
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Quoted from DB


So in the event of the worst do you think it is something Town could look at? Also the word 'Integrity'  would come into it somewhere.



Assuming the takeover has not gone through yet (don’t even dare ask again!), GTFC plc is currently insolvent.

Last time I looked it was still trading
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DB
February 7, 2021, 5:25pm
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Assuming the takeover has not gone through yet (don’t even dare ask again!), GTFC plc is currently insolvent.

Last time I looked it was still trading


Thank you for your wisdom (not being sarcastic) and I'm not even asking again. Happy in the knowledge that somewhere their is a post that 1 of the 3 said about another week.

UTM



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ginnywings
February 7, 2021, 5:26pm

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The insolvency rules are different for football clubs, much to the annoyance of HMRC, who have fought and lost more than one legal battle over unpaid taxes from clubs struggling financially.
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pen penfras
February 7, 2021, 5:44pm

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Assuming the takeover has not gone through yet (don’t even dare ask again!), GTFC plc is currently insolvent.

Last time I looked it was still trading


GTFC is not insolvent. Insolvent means unable to pay bills etc. If the loan had repayment terms, we very well may be unable to pay players or the loan, but there isn't, so we're not.

Some of the biggest companies in the world are insolvent by your logic, and that's obviously not true.
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pen penfras
February 7, 2021, 5:46pm

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DB
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Quoted from ginnywings
The insolvency rules are different for football clubs, much to the annoyance of HMRC, who have fought and lost more than one legal battle over unpaid taxes from clubs struggling financially.


Thank you Ginny I didn't know.


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grimsby pete
February 7, 2021, 6:50pm

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All this talk about doom and gloom so let's look at the facts.

We started the season with a crazy man in charge who brought in untried non league players and some experienced players that were crocked and they have hardly played.

Hurst has brought in some better players and can organise our team far better than runaway.

We only have to finish third from bottom and with the squad we have now that is the lowest we will finish.

In fact I am confident we might even finish 4th or even 5th bottom .


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NorthseaMariner
February 7, 2021, 7:02pm
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I’m your biggest fan at the moment Pete, You’re bang on, we have better players, a manager we know and know what he can do and a long way to go this season.
So, we have nothing to lose and all to play for. Let’s get out there and go and get the wins we require.
Let’s have less of the “ We’re doomed” mentality.
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ginnywings
February 7, 2021, 7:14pm

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Quoted from Hagrid
Dovers chairman has resigned from the NL board. Indicates to me as if season will continue


His reasoning is interesting. He is saying that clubs taking on loans are breaking the competition rules. He's also saying what a lot of us have said, which is basically that the bigger, richer clubs, are expecting clubs with no money and nothing to play for, to take on large loans that they can't afford because it suits them and their quest to get into the EFL.

He is not very complimentary of the NL board.
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KingstonMariner
February 7, 2021, 7:45pm
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All this talk of the NL voting in 28 days reminds me of that film.

Are we going to see a load of zombie clubs (no income) come the end of the month.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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ska face
February 7, 2021, 7:57pm

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Quoted from DB


Firstly it's good to see  you up running after yesterdays result, you were a bit down I seem to recall.

You make a very good point about the means to do so. I believe that it is illegal for a company to trade if you are insolvent. As, like Town, many of the clubs will be LTD companies then without sufficient income they may be trading illegally. The NL should keep a watch on this as it is not only a matter of integrity but a formality.

If Town were to drop then I think a reasonable case could be brought against the NL for none of their teams to be promoted as many of their teams may be, or traded while insolvent.



La lutte continue 👍

I think we’re all overlooking the role of Sport England in this as well. They still have to approve any loan applications - are they going to do so for clubs which run almost permanent losses annually? They have a duty to ensure taxpayers money is going to be returned, regardless of whether it’s over ten or twenty years. If a team has never tuned a profit, is it right - or likely- that they are given a loan on favourable terms?
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DB
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Quoted from ska face


La lutte continue 👍

I think we’re all overlooking the role of Sport England in this as well. They still have to approve any loan applications - are they going to do so for clubs which run almost permanent losses annually? They have a duty to ensure taxpayers money is going to be returned, regardless of whether it’s over ten or twenty years. If a team has never tuned a profit, is it right - or likely- that they are given a loan on favourable terms?


Unfortunately my idea is not workable, see previous posts on this thread. However you have raised hopes for plan B, or is it C!

As you say Sports England have to sanction the use of taxpayers money in a proper way. How about writing to local MP's as we have fans all over the country, it may seem to be a national campaign.  


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February 7, 2021, 9:11pm

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Quoted from grimsby pete
All this talk about doom and gloom so let's look at the facts.

We started the season with a crazy man in charge who brought in untried non league players and some experienced players that were crocked and they have hardly played.

Hurst has brought in some better players and can organise our team far better than runaway.

We only have to finish third from bottom and with the squad we have now that is the lowest we will finish.

In fact I am confident we might even finish 4th or even 5th bottom .


That could equally apply to the U.S.A.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
All this talk of the NL voting in 28 days reminds me of that film.

Are we going to see a load of zombie clubs (no income) come the end of the month.


Braintrees!!!
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Norseman
February 8, 2021, 1:19pm
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How do we know all will take on loans. The ones who have no chance of promotion, and know they wont get relegated may not. They may just furlough all the full timers and expensive players, then  play their kids who they dont pay
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wigworld
February 8, 2021, 1:29pm

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Assuming the takeover has not gone through yet (don’t even dare ask again!), GTFC plc is currently insolvent.

Last time I looked it was still trading


We're benignly insolvent.  

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Quoted from Norseman
How do we know all will take on loans. The ones who have no chance of promotion, and know they wont get relegated may not. They may just furlough all the full timers and expensive players, then  play their kids who they dont pay


Will still cost money to put games on. Stewards, manager, coaches, medical staff, floodlights, players, utility bills will still have to be paid for.


Up The Mariners!
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Things are about to get very nasty in the NL. The vote will be close. Likely to be a narrow majority for continuing. 13-9 or 12-10 unless a few clubs change their mind. Note a few clubs saying they would “like to continue” rather than saying they can and will.

But a majority for continuing...

At which point those against continuing are likely to rally together and in effect go on strike and issue the ultimatum that they will resign en-masse rather than continue due to lack of funds. They will be buoyed by the NL North & South having stopped.

Their aim will be to obstruct things long enough and postpone enough matches that completing the league will be impractical and the bankrolled clubs back down and agree to null and void.
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DB
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You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Quoted from DB


I'm not one for crosses and ticks too much and I don't agree with DB too much but a red cross for posting a link to an NL site in a thread about the NL is quite frankly ridiculous. There is no point in the system if it's just being used as a personality judgement rather than a comment on the content of a post.



And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery

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I'm not one for crosses and ticks too much and I don't agree with DB too much but a red cross for posting a link to an NL site in a thread about the NL is quite frankly ridiculous. There is no point in the system if it's just being used as a personality judgement rather than a comment on the content of a post.



You're pinning your hopes way too much on rational thought, sense and critical thinking. This is the internet.


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I'm not one for crosses and ticks too much and I don't agree with DB too much but a red cross for posting a link to an NL site in a thread about the NL is quite frankly ridiculous. There is no point in the system if it's just being used as a personality judgement rather than a comment on the content of a post.



Thank you for your comments. Not to press the point too much the FA has a Respect programme, so perhaps as we disagree we can respect each other.


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DB
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Quoted from ginnywings


His reasoning is interesting. He is saying that clubs taking on loans are breaking the competition rules. He's also saying what a lot of us have said, which is basically that the bigger, richer clubs, are expecting clubs with no money and nothing to play for, to take on large loans that they can't afford because it suits them and their quest to get into the EFL.

He is not very complimentary of the NL board.


He also says that NL clubs are breaking the rules of their competition:_

"as I have said twice at board meetings, I believe that the competition rules are being broken by allowing the proposed loans, let alone encouraging them. (Page 155 Appendices 08 of the rule book)."  
https://nonleaguedaily.com/dover-chairman-parmenter-resigns-from-national-league-board/

If this is true then the NL has lost its integrity and any club relegated from L2 may have a legal case to stay in L2.

It also makes you wonder why the EFL are still on the fence and not telling the NL that their will be no relegation and promotion this season.


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ska face
February 8, 2021, 10:42pm

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Quoted from ska face

As for Res 2 (end Nat League), you need 12 from 23 teams to vote FOR. You’ve already got 3 against and 1 abstention, with 1 for. So you effectively need 11 from 18 to vote for. Torquay will presumably vote against, so you’re needing 11 from 17.


Kings Lynn vote FOR the resolution.

10 from 17 required.

9 of bottom 11 still to declare.
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RichMariner
February 9, 2021, 11:36am
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A lot has been said about the integrity of the competition, and it's a very valid point.

Say the season continues. Clubs that didn't want to continue will be forced to play on. As a previous poster stated, in order to avoid taking on a loan to see the season out, they could furlough their players and play the kids.

Thus handing three points to any team that hasn't already played them.

But say you're Wrexham, and you played [said team] when they were full strength back in November, and you played them again at the start of January, just before things got postponed.

Then imagine you're a promotion rival of Wrexham's who's yet to play [said team] this season due to an earlier postponement. That's six points on a plate if they're gonna play kids, you'd think.

This isn't fair. Clubs will be gaining an assumed advantage while others would be at a relative disadvantage.

It brings into question the integrity of the entire competition. How can you judge the achievements of each club fairly when they've not been competing against each other fairly?

The playing fields must be level for each club. If they're not, serious questions need to be asked.

I sense that the vote will approve the season to continue, but I really doubt that will be the last we hear of it.


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KingstonMariner
February 9, 2021, 1:15pm
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The problem then is with no promotion from the NL or relegation to it from L2, clubs at the bottom of L2 lose that hazard. Then other L2 contenders are in the same position as those who list out in the NL. And so on...  


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For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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RichMariner
February 9, 2021, 1:39pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
The problem then is with no promotion from the NL or relegation to it from L2, clubs at the bottom of L2 lose that hazard. Then other L2 contenders are in the same position as those who list out in the NL. And so on...  


Fair point.

I guess the difference is that L2 clubs (like us) are already receiving a sum of money from the PL and we're not required to take on a loan that will hang around our necks for the next decade or two.

So I imagine we won't furlough players - and those we do play will be doing their best to impress so they get a contract for next season.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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forza ivano
February 9, 2021, 7:43pm

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Dover chairman adds another layer of intrigue
https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1359179478178660354
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February 9, 2021, 7:53pm
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Forgive me for not trawling back through this thread. When is a decision expected and would such a decision by final, or open to appeal?


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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KingstonMariner
February 9, 2021, 7:54pm
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Roughly the end of February.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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February 9, 2021, 8:01pm
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Quoted from smokey111
Forgive me for not trawling back through this thread. When is a decision expected and would such a decision by final, or open to appeal?


To be fair you’d need to take a week off work to trawl back through this thread
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RichMariner
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By the time all clubs submit a vote, and presuming they vote to continue playing, it'll take another while before they each understand what loan they'll be able to take on.

Once all the paperwork has been completed, and they finally get the money, they could be in more debt than the loans can cover.

The National League are quite clearly making this up as they go along. There has been no grand plan, and the issue stems from a lack of clarity that was their duty to understand at the outset.

It looks like a very costly mistake at a level of football where there isn't much cash floating about. A truly sad state of affairs for lower league football in this country.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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February 9, 2021, 10:40pm
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Quoted from RichMariner
By the time all clubs submit a vote, and presuming they vote to continue playing, it'll take another while before they each understand what loan they'll be able to take on.

Once all the paperwork has been completed, and they finally get the money, they could be in more debt than the loans can cover.

The National League are quite clearly making this up as they go along. There has been no grand plan, and the issue stems from a lack of clarity that was their duty to understand at the outset.

It looks like a very costly mistake at a level of football where there isn't much cash floating about. A truly sad state of affairs for lower league football in this country.


66 club chairmen and a National League Board and not one asked for the financial terms in writing. All very strange.
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TownSNAFU5
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Whatever happens with the vote(s), you are going to end up with 2 opposing camps of about equal strength and numbers.  Bitter disputes breaking out because each club is threatened in some way.  Self matters.

A type of football civil war.  No one is likely to win or profit from this weak leadership, possible legal irregularities and absolute mess.

Except possibly GTFC ironically.  
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DB
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Our only hope, apart from starting to win games, is civil war breaks out in the NL between the have's and have nots (Money).
The have nots about 8/9 clubs say sorry we're playing the season out, no money. The NL cannot fine them as they have no money, cannot deduct points as they've stopped playing, cannot relegate them as their too many.

League over this year and Town stay up.


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Sigone
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Quoted from DB
Our only hope, apart from starting to win games, is civil war breaks out in the NL between the have's and have nots (Money).
The have nots about 8/9 clubs say sorry we're playing the season out, no money. The NL cannot fine them as they have no money, cannot deduct points as they've stopped playing, cannot relegate them as their too many.

League over this year and Town stay up.


All ready for the EFL to jump in and split league 2 and Conf into League 2 north/south...I can dream  
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IlkleyMariner
February 10, 2021, 8:46am
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Quoted from Sigone


All ready for the EFL to jump in and split league 2 and Conf into League 2 north/south...I can dream  


Think the self interest of L2 clubs would resist this as their share of payouts would reduce. Operationally could work.
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February 10, 2021, 10:10am

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Dover chairman threatening to 'cease football operations' in the next couple of days if funding is not forthcoming. The first of many I presume.

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....ue-football-furlough
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RichMariner
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Football is for the fans.

If those clubs who vote to end the season — because, quite understandably, they don't want to take on any debt — are forced to play on, it could drive them into the ground so that when fans are able to attend matches, some may not have a club left to return to.

That's quite a frightening thought.

Maybe it's with bias, but even so I know that deep down, as hard as it would be for Town in Torquay's position to end the season, you're ending your hopes of promotion but doing it for the greater good.

Might urine you off at night, but you'd at least sleep well knowing you haven't potentially ruined another football club (which is unforgivable. An unfit owner doing it is one thing, but for a fellow club (or clubs) to do it would be something else).


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It's amazing that in all the turmoil of the NL which is now basically about money that they have forgotten 2 names.

Bury

Macclesfield

Promotion is one thing, survival is another.


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ginnywings
February 10, 2021, 12:02pm

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Quoted from DB
It's amazing that in all the turmoil of the NL which is now basically about money that they have forgotten 2 names.

Bury

Macclesfield

Promotion is one thing, survival is another.


Those two clubs should be a warning, but they won't be. Football clubs will always take financial risks if there is a sniff of glory.

Difference in this case is that some clubs are being pressured into taking financial risks by those that have more clout and money. It's a unique situation that football hasn't come across before. They should just put everything to one side and void the season for the good of all, but I fear thy won't.
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RichMariner
February 10, 2021, 12:09pm
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Can you imagine the fallout?

Clubs like Stockport, Hartlepool, Sutton, Notts Co, Altrincham, Wrexham, Eastleigh, Boreham Wood, Maidenhead voting to finish the season. Only one of them will go up (presuming Torquay win the league).

All of them will have taken on loans — and forced loans upon the likes of Kings Lynn and Dover, who clearly don't want to play on. How many clubs could go out of business because of this decision?

Then you wonder...

How many clubs won't go out of business if they abandon the season now?

Like I said in an earlier post, you'd be gutted to null and void the season if your team is going well. But which decision is short term greed, and which is for the greater good?

You just hope — not for Grimsby Town's sake, but for the sake of lower league football — that the right decision wins out in the end.


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pen penfras
February 10, 2021, 12:41pm

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Quoted from RichMariner
Can you imagine the fallout?

Clubs like Stockport, Hartlepool, Sutton, Notts Co, Altrincham, Wrexham, Eastleigh, Boreham Wood, Maidenhead voting to finish the season. Only one of them will go up (presuming Torquay win the league).

All of them will have taken on loans — and forced loans upon the likes of Kings Lynn and Dover, who clearly don't want to play on. How many clubs could go out of business because of this decision?

Then you wonder...

How many clubs won't go out of business if they abandon the season now?

Like I said in an earlier post, you'd be gutted to null and void the season if your team is going well. But which decision is short term greed, and which is for the greater good?

You just hope — not for Grimsby Town's sake, but for the sake of lower league football — that the right decision wins out in the end.


I hope for Grimsby Town's sake, but it is the right decision.
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DB
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Full statement from Dover chairman looks as if he mothballing the club. From what he says the money has run out and the NL are not doing any longer what they said they set out to do.

https://nonleaguedaily.com/dover-chairman-parmenter-really-concerned-over-risk-to-clubs/


It's only a matter of time before more follow. The NL cannot punish all clubs who take a similar route.


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TownSNAFU5
February 10, 2021, 2:58pm
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The Dover Chairmen (and others who will undoubtably follow) are taking action to best look after their clubs because there is a leadership vacuum in NL management and control.

This action by Dover was inevitable and understandable.  They are showing their own leadership.

We have seen ourselves how inept the NL were.  When they needed to do the right thing for football and their clubs.  Their biggest and most important crisis.  To date they failed miserably.  


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RichMariner
February 10, 2021, 3:18pm
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You turn to your leaders in times of crisis, and the National League is showing no leadership.

They should really be listening to all 66 clubs, understanding their financial positions as a priority and then considering their on-field ambitions.

Instead they're basically putting them all on an island and asking them to fight it out among themselves


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ska face
February 10, 2021, 3:43pm

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Wonder how many NL Commercial Managers signed deals with sponsors & advertisers on the basis of a full season being played, and whether that money has already been spent?
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BobbyCummingsTackle
February 10, 2021, 3:51pm
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Quoted from ska face
Wonder how many NL Commercial Managers signed deals with sponsors & advertisers on the basis of a full season being played, and whether that money has already been spent?


But that's not too hard to sort out - they can offer an extended period etc. The majority of sponsors of NL teams (not all!) are locally based companies and the sponsorship/commercial deal will have been done between a small group of people who know each other. A lot of sponsors will be looking at empty stadiums and thinking that an element of their money is being wasted anyway. They'll jump at the chance of still being sponsors (or whatever) when we're back to 'normal'.


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Bradford P A have stopped playing until the mess is sorted out.

https://bpafc.com/saturdays-game-with-hereford-is-postponed/

You do have to wonder why the NL do not take into account the financial plight of teams when making their decisions.


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Seems like the situation shifts slightly one way one day and then back the other the following day. Somebody earlier on said they were trying to "filibuster" the league which I think is a reasonable analysis. Stagger on so they can abandon the season but maybe played enough to make up points on a PPG basis?

I'm inherently sceptical of anything that seems positive so I'd be surprised if we were saved by it. More likely they finish, shackled with loans and non-league becomes third world football again and we're stuck in it forever.

Situation would be way easier if they had fewer teams in the mix. Problem is we seem to have 10 or more teams trying to play on with a 1 in 10 chance of getting promoted and all their debt problems becoming self resolving.

I expect it to come to a head at some point, especially if a pitifully low number of games continue to be played. The combination of Covid, rubbish pitches and terrible weather just seems too much for them.


I've wasted my life in black and white, a pathetic act for a worthless cause
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DB
February 11, 2021, 2:34pm
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As I understand it, and I may be wrong !, the National League comes under the control of the FA. As the FA had to approve the decisions made by the National League as in the ratification of the closure of the National League last year.

Surely the FA have some sort of rules to govern the current situation in the National League, how can the FA ratify the decisions of the National League in respect of clubs not fulfilling fixtures?. How can the FA accept the decision of the National League in trying to get clubs to take out loans they don't want to. The questions can be added to, but the FA some time sooner or later has to step in and take the National League into hand.  




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grimsby pete
February 11, 2021, 2:58pm

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We would not be showing so much interest in this if we were mid table.

What I want is for us to survive because we have enough points to keep us safe.

Not because the NL have suspended their season so no relegation from L2.


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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DB
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Quoted from grimsby pete
We would not be showing so much interest in this if we were mid table.

What I want is for us to survive because we have enough points to keep us safe.

Not because the NL have suspended their season so no relegation from L2.


Pete I absolutely agree with you and hope my posts about the national league are an utter waste of time. The next 4/5 games may be critical for our survival, 10+ point would be good.



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psgmariner
February 12, 2021, 11:32am

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ska face
February 12, 2021, 11:45am

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kicking the can down the road. Shameful abdication of responsibility from all those in leadership positions so far.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1360182762729312262
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ginnywings
February 12, 2021, 12:15pm

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Boris has already hinted that the 22nd may not bring any firm announcements. Some of these teams haven't played since October anyway, so they may as well just end the thing now and everyone can get on with their lives.

Seems that all leagues are sat around waiting to see what others are doing. Someone in authority needs to just make a decision for them. The voting system in the NL is a convoluted joke.
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TownSNAFU5
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Taken from the York Press papaer today:



11th February
"Regrettable misunderstanding" over Government funding to National League


"Secretary Nigel Huddleston has said National League clubs’ belief that continued Government support would arrive as grants can be put down to a “regrettable misunderstanding”.

In a letter to a constituent, Huddleston said the National League failed to confirm the nature of continued Government support before communicating with its member clubs.

The Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport never told the league that funds would come as grants and not loans, Huddleston said".
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ginnywings
February 12, 2021, 1:49pm

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The threats have started from NL board.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/sp.....fulfilling-fixtures/
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Hagrid
February 12, 2021, 1:55pm

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What a shitshow we’re heading for.
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Eastendmariner
February 12, 2021, 1:55pm
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they will carry on and what will have is just one big mess of debt and teams going bankrupt and the NL will collapse  which will take years to rectify  


Mariner Trust Life Member  

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DB
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Looks like the NL board willing not be whipping clubs into submission . Gateshead say they will not be playing

https://nonleaguedaily.com/gateshead-confirm-they-will-not-play-afc-fylde-game/


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louth_in_the_south
February 12, 2021, 2:07pm

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The NL board are completely gutless and are waiting to use club’s decisions not to play to absolve them from making the decision to abandon the season .


Lower F5
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DB
February 12, 2021, 2:12pm
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Another NL club Hampton & Richmond say no

https://nonleaguedaily.com/app.....-back-null-and-void/


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DB
February 12, 2021, 2:18pm
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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
The NL board are completely gutless and are waiting to use club’s decisions not to play to absolve them from making the decision to abandon the season .


This reminds me about people who make decisions but don't think them through and then things then go wrong. Followed by I didn't realise, it's not my fault. I didn't do it. Basically the blame game and the NL do not want to take responsibility for their rules and those of the FA which they operate under.


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Les Brechin
February 12, 2021, 2:32pm

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Quoted Text
Any club without just cause failing to fulfil an engagement to play a competition match on the appointed date shall for each offence be liable to expulsion from the competition and/or such other disciplinary action the board may determine, including the deduction of up to a maximum of three points from the offending club’s record, any expenses incurred by their opponents, and a fine.


Seems like a global pandemic is not a "just cause" then.

Makes you wonder what would be!


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DB
February 12, 2021, 2:46pm
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Quoted from Les Brechin


Seems like a global pandemic is not a "just cause" then.

Makes you wonder what would be!



The booze cupboard running dry at National League H Q


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DB
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You do have to worry about the mentality of the NL board and the latest crap they are saying, no fines or sanction !


https://nonleaguedaily.com/no-fines-or-sanctions-have-been-raised-or-recommended-national-league/

So why would Blyth Spartans say they've been fined !

https://nonleaguedaily.com/blyth-spartans-say-club-fined-over-not-fulfilling-bradford-pa-game/

Somebody is lying big time and I can't see it being Blyth.

We seriously need to do everything possible to avoid a drop into such a shambles of a run league. Preferably on the pitch or legally quoting every rule the NL and FA have broken to keep the NL going.


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Grantham_Mariner
February 12, 2021, 3:30pm

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The National League Board should all resign, and the F.A. should then take over, void the season, and look to get new leagues ready for when football can continue.

Fine a club that can't play because of financial problems, if they can not afford to test their players they can not risk playing. Threatening to deduct points when it is obvious the season will not be completed.

Bunch of amateurs!  It was the National League that said you can not play in our leagues if you can not afford to complete the season! How things change!


If the football is bad you can always watch the gulls.
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GollyGTFC
February 12, 2021, 4:03pm

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Quoted from ska face
kicking the can down the road. Shameful abdication of responsibility from all those in leadership positions so far.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/status/1360182762729312262


I don't think it's that at all. Most of those leagues hadn't even played 10 games yet. I think they are keeping their options open. If they can't get crowds back in until October they could then restart the "current" season (which would become 2020-22 season) and complete that one rather than having to force a truncated new season in 7 months.

If a new season can start in August then they will null and void and start again.
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TownSNAFU5
February 12, 2021, 8:15pm
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Talking of a crisis.   At Ipswich Town in the 1960s , 70s, and 80s.  They only had one type of crisis.  That was when they run out of claret in the Boardroom.   No wonder the team was so successful with calm leadership like that. (Winning the Prem equivalent, finished 2nd twice and won the Uefa Cup).

Managers included Sir Alf Ramsey and Sir Bobby Robson.

They could give the NL Board a few pointers in how to run football successfully.
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moosey_club
February 12, 2021, 10:50pm
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Quoted from DB
You do have to worry about the mentality of the NL board and the latest crap they are saying, no fines or sanction !


https://nonleaguedaily.com/no-fines-or-sanctions-have-been-raised-or-recommended-national-league/

So why would Blyth Spartans say they've been fined !

https://nonleaguedaily.com/blyth-spartans-say-club-fined-over-not-fulfilling-bradford-pa-game/

Somebody is lying big time and I can't see it being Blyth.

We seriously need to do everything possible to avoid a drop into such a shambles of a run league. Preferably on the pitch or legally quoting every rule the NL and FA have broken to keep the NL going.


Blyth have said they have been charged.....The NL are saying no sanctions have been raised......i dont think either is incorrect, Blyth will have to answer the charges and at that point the NL have the option to implement the sanctions. I would think by the time the hearing comes to the fore so many clubs would have refused to play the NL wont want to set a precedent they would have to follow for every other occurrence.


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KingstonMariner
February 13, 2021, 12:20am
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Quoted from DB
Another NL club Hampton & Richmond say no

https://nonleaguedaily.com/app.....-back-null-and-void/


A damning statement from the Beavers at the end of that announcement.

😉


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I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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TownSNAFU5
February 13, 2021, 12:24pm
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Farsley Celtic have refused to travel to play York City today.  This is despite the fact that they would have been the first team to play in their new stadium.

Another nail in the NL coffin for stopping this season.
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pontoonlew
February 13, 2021, 12:31pm
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
Farsley Celtic have refused to travel to play York City today.  This is despite the fact that they would have been the first team to play in their new stadium.

Another nail in the NL coffin for stopping this season.


We still can’t use that as any hope as it’s NLN/S teams doing all of this. NL teams are carrying on as normal which shows you exactly where their vote is heading imo.
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Swansea_Mariner
February 13, 2021, 1:15pm
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Most of the national league fixtures are off again today, so that leaves almost all the teams having to reschedule an additional fixture between now and the end of the season.
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Swansea_Mariner
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Look at this completely farcical, its just total nonsense continuing with stuff like this going on:

[url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/sport/stones-furlough-entire-first-team-squad-242444/[/url]
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ginnywings
February 13, 2021, 6:28pm

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Integrity of the league they say.

My ar$e.
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February 13, 2021, 6:33pm
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They may be tinpot but their League got 3 games on today whereas we only managed 2  


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ska face
February 13, 2021, 6:42pm

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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Look at this completely farcica, its just total nonsense continuing with stuff like this going on:

[url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/sport/stones-furlough-entire-first-team-squad-242444/[/url]


Called it last week. Tonbridge Angels done the same. There’ll be more too.
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GollyGTFC
February 13, 2021, 6:43pm

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The NL regular season is due to finish 15 weeks today (29th May). So that's 15 Saturday's and 15 midweeks between now and the end of the season. 30 fixture dates before teams will need to play more than twice a week. And...

Games remaining...

29 - Dover Athletic
27 - Solihull Moors
26 - Barnet, Chesterfield, Kings Lynn Town, Maidenhead United & Notts County
25 - Bromley, Sutton United. Wealdstone & Woking
24 - Boreham Wood, Dagenham and Redbridge, Eastleigh, Halifax Town, Hartlepool United, Stockport County & Yeovil Town
23 - Aldershot Town, Weymouth & Wrexham
22 - Torquay United
21 - Altrincham

And you have to factor in that almost every team still has a blank fixture (where they should have played Macclesfield Town) left. The four teams in bold still have at least the FA Trophy QF to play & then possibly another 2 rounds after that (all to be completed before the NL season concludes. And Notts County still have last season's Final to play.

So, Notts County still have 26 league matches to fit in and at least 2 FA Trophy matches (possible 4) and have no game on 13th March (should have been away at Macclesfield). So that's a minimum of 28 matches and 1 "bye week" or a maximum of 30 matches & 1 blank to squeeze into 15 midweeks & 15 Saturdays.

And Dover have 29 league matches and a "bye week" to play in those 30 available fixture slots. And to make matters worse they were due to play Torquay 2 weeks today but that's been postponed due to the FA Trophy. So they are already at the point where they need to play 3 fixtures in 1 week. And that's if every one of their fixtures for the rest of the season go ahead as planned.

Not going to happen.

As much as some clubs "want" to continue, reality is catching up with the NL.
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Northbank Mariner
February 13, 2021, 7:50pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
The NL regular season is due to finish 15 weeks today (29th May). So that's 15 Saturday's and 15 midweeks between now and the end of the season. 30 fixture dates before teams will need to play more than twice a week. And...

Games remaining...

29 - Dover Athletic
27 - Solihull Moors
26 - Barnet, Chesterfield, Kings Lynn Town, Maidenhead United & Notts County
25 - Bromley, Sutton United. Wealdstone & Woking
24 - Boreham Wood, Dagenham and Redbridge, Eastleigh, Halifax Town, Hartlepool United, Stockport County & Yeovil Town
23 - Aldershot Town, Weymouth & Wrexham
22 - Torquay United
21 - Altrincham

And you have to factor in that almost every team still has a blank fixture (where they should have played Macclesfield Town) left. The four teams in bold still have at least the FA Trophy QF to play & then possibly another 2 rounds after that (all to be completed before the NL season concludes. And Notts County still have last season's Final to play.

So, Notts County still have 26 league matches to fit in and at least 2 FA Trophy matches (possible 4) and have no game on 13th March (should have been away at Macclesfield). So that's a minimum of 28 matches and 1 "bye week" or a maximum of 30 matches & 1 blank to squeeze into 15 midweeks & 15 Saturdays.

And Dover have 29 league matches and a "bye week" to play in those 30 available fixture slots. And to make matters worse they were due to play Torquay 2 weeks today but that's been postponed due to the FA Trophy. So they are already at the point where they need to play 3 fixtures in 1 week. And that's if every one of their fixtures for the rest of the season go ahead as planned.

Not going to happen.

As much as some clubs "want" to continue, reality is catching up with the NL.


This begs one question Golly, have you got a wife??..
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ska face
February 13, 2021, 7:59pm

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Leave it while tomorrow if you want to proposition the man.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 13, 2021, 8:01pm
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


This begs one question Golly, have you got a wife??..


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Quoted from ska face
Leave it while tomorrow if you want to proposition the man.


The day I proposition a man is the day I join George Michael...
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dicko995
February 13, 2021, 8:13pm

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A careless whisper there Northbank
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Quoted from dicko995
A careless whisper there Northbank


More if a "wake me up before you go go".... 🤣🤣
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Marinerdeano
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Quoted from pontoonlew


We still can’t use that as any hope as it’s NLN/S teams doing all of this. NL teams are carrying on as normal which shows you exactly where their vote is heading imo.


But some that want to curtail the season from the NL Prem may choose the option to bring in the conference N/S vote to strengthen this vote (that only needs 25%?).
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The wife has just told me Dover Athletic have announced they cannot fulfil any further fixtures until adequate funding is secured.
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DB
February 13, 2021, 11:15pm
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Depending upon your faith in statistics we may not need the NL to help us out. Hursty, on his own, has 44% win rate and 26% draw rate which equates 8 wins and 5 draws from our remaining 19 games giving 29 points.

On a thread it was suggest that 50 point is the magic number, so 21 points we have and the 29 will give us the 50. Now I don't know where the wins will come from but it gives some hope if you like statistics.


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Swansea_Mariner
February 13, 2021, 11:30pm
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Dover furlough confirmed, national league now down to 22 teams

[url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/sport/dover-and-out-we-cant-play-anymore-242471/[/url]

I assume this means all the results from their existing games will have to be expunged.
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DB
February 13, 2021, 11:39pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Dover furlough confirmed, national league now down to 22 teams

[url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/sport/dover-and-out-we-cant-play-anymore-242471/[/url]

I assume this means all the results from their existing games will have to be expunged.



Tip of the iceberg !



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dapperz fun pub
February 14, 2021, 12:07am
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Dover furlough confirmed, national league now down to 22 teams

[url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/sport/dover-and-out-we-cant-play-anymore-242471/[/url]

I assume this means all the results from their existing games will have to be expunged.


Kings Lynn to follow
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arryarryarry
February 14, 2021, 1:12am
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Quoted from DB
Depending upon your faith in statistics we may not need the NL to help us out. Hursty, on his own, has 44% win rate and 26% draw rate which equates 8 wins and 5 draws from our remaining 19 games giving 29 points.

On a thread it was suggest that 50 point is the magic number, so 21 points we have and the 29 will give us the 50. Now I don't know where the wins will come from but it gives some hope if you like statistics.


I really hope you are right but for the past couple of months you have been saying we will win the next game
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GYinScuntland
February 14, 2021, 1:29am

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I think football as we used to know it is finished for ever.
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Vance Warner
February 14, 2021, 7:28am
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Not sure if the Dover news is good for us or not. It’s less fixtures to complete and one less vote in favour of stopping the season. How many clubs would need to pull out before the integrity of the conference was compromised enough to not allow promotion and relegation to the league? Either way it looks like our world famous pyramid is collapsing.
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ska face
February 14, 2021, 7:45am

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Surely they are still afforded a vote, they’re not being removed from the league and I suspect they won’t be as others will be in the same boat. Another 3,4,5 teams do this and you’re then looking at those on the fence, leaning towards continuing but with slim promotion hopes. Are they going to continue with a league where a handful of teams have dropped out?
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Mikey_345
February 14, 2021, 7:48am
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Dover furlough confirmed, national league now down to 22 teams

[url]https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/sport/dover-and-out-we-cant-play-anymore-242471/[/url]

I assume this means all the results from their existing games will have to be expunged.


Doesn’t take many (3/4?) of these to make the league unviable.

Even if majority want to continue a couple downing tools damages the integrity of the league.


All Town aren’t we

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mariner91
February 14, 2021, 8:39am
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You'd have to expect anyone from 12th place down to realistically be thinking privately that they have virtually no chance of promotion so does it make sense for the long term viability of their club to continue this season? On top of that you've got smaller clubs like Eastleigh, Boreham Wood and Maidenhead who still have an outside chance of promotion but is it worth chasing that very slim opportunity if it means saddling yourself with a debt which may well stop you having that opportunity again in the next five years or so? The top 5 are all clearly going to vote to continue but despite what many chairmen are saying publicly I bet deep down reality is that it makes no sense to continue.

That's before you start looking at what might happen if the NLN and NLS stop meaning no relegation. You'd be raging if your promotion rival hammered Yeovil's youth team and you'd dropped points to the first team a month ago.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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GollyGTFC
February 14, 2021, 8:52am

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A lot of deluded Notts County fans seem to think the league will stop in the next few weeks and promotion will still happen and be decided by PPG.

Expect a fair few NL clubs to come out in support of Dover and also refuse to play in the coming days.
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Mikey_345
February 14, 2021, 9:33am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
A lot of deluded Notts County fans seem to think the league will stop in the next few weeks and promotion will still happen and be decided by PPG.

Expect a fair few NL clubs to come out in support of Dover and also refuse to play in the coming days.


EFL won’t allow promotion on PPG I wouldn’t have thought.


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MeanwoodMariner
February 14, 2021, 9:39am

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Quoted from Mikey_345


EFL won’t allow promotion on PPG I wouldn’t have thought.


They did last year.
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pontoonlew
February 14, 2021, 10:38am
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


They did last year.


It’s been mentioned numerous times already but just in the avoidance of doubt. The EFL will not allow PPG promotions if their own leagues are able to complete (which they will be).
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Mikey_345
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Quoted from MeanwoodMariner


They did last year.


Because no league other than the top 2 completed. If (which we will) the EFL complete there’s zero chance of admittance from PPG


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ginnywings
February 14, 2021, 11:26am

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The NL is fast becoming a parody. It'll soon resemble the Ripping Yarns episode Golden Gordon.

I think I may send my footballing CV to Maidstone and Tonbridge Angels for consideration. Have boots, will travel.

The EFL could end all this by saying no promotion this season without a full and fair league programme. Come back next year when fans are back. That would put everyone out of their misery.
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psgmariner
February 14, 2021, 11:33am

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If it does get canned and no relegation from league 2 happens then you have to say Ollie and Fenty played a blinder signing all that cheap garbage in the summer.  


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ginnywings
February 14, 2021, 11:36am

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Quoted from psgmariner
If it does get canned and no relegation from league 2 happens then you have to say Ollie and Fenty played a blinder signing all that cheap garbage in the summer.  


All of whom have had to be replaced at greater cost. Buy cheap, buy twice.

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GrimRob
February 14, 2021, 12:19pm

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If three other clubs besides Dover pull out then they can't relegate them all. At that point, the league collapses. What would really help us is if the EFL say they would not accept promotion from a much-truncated league. Probably asking a bit too much at this stage though as the EFL would rather the NL self-destruct then they end up getting a share of the blame.


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ginnywings
February 14, 2021, 12:26pm

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Quoted from GrimRob
If three other clubs besides Dover pull out then they can't relegate them all. At that point, the league collapses. What would really help us is if the EFL say they would not accept promotion from a much-truncated league. Probably asking a bit too much at this stage though as the EFL would rather the NL self-destruct then they end up getting a share of the blame.


There will be no relegation from the NL anyway, as NLN/NLS will probably void their seasons.
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DB
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Quoted from arryarryarry


I really hope you are right but for the past couple of months you have been saying we will win the next game


I will always say that. I can't think why I should have other thought at the start of a match. I'm an optimist and yes were going to stay up.


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MeanwoodMariner
February 14, 2021, 4:22pm

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Quoted from pontoonlew


It’s been mentioned numerous times already but just in the avoidance of doubt. The EFL will not allow PPG promotions if their own leagues are able to complete (which they will be).


It has been mentioned a few times as you say. But I've not been able to find any mention of this rule on the EFL website regarding promotion to the League. It covers ground regulations, financial solvency, and the National League being a sufficiently functional league for 2 teams to drop in to, but there's no mention of what happens regarding seasons concluding with PPG.

2 teams were promoted from the NL last year despite it finishing with PPG. League 1 didn't complete their season last year but were still allowed promotion to the Championship, which did complete every game. Every precedent suggests that if the NL can complete "enough" games, then that will be sufficient for 2 teams to be promoted.
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Mikey_345
February 14, 2021, 5:21pm
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Relegation up and down the internal leagues of EFL is slightly different. There were a couple of releases from the EFL around the time NL were discussing how to start/complete their season and EFL wanted to ensure the integrity of promotion/relegation..... I read them for myself but cannot remember the dates.

I think you’ll find last year was made a lot easier as in the end no other team was eventually relegated. Macclesfield unfortunately went bust.


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KingstonMariner
February 15, 2021, 1:37am
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
The wife has just told me Dover Athletic have announced they cannot fulfil any further fixtures until adequate funding is secured.


She needs to get out more.

(Assuming she’s not from East Kent)


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For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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GollyGTFC
February 15, 2021, 7:19am

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Last season there was no relegation & promotion between the National League and the 4 regional tier 3 divisions below.

This is how many games were completed in each of those step 3 divisions...

Northern Premier League - 74.7% (345 matches out of 462 completed)
Southern Premier Central - 75.5% (349 matches out of 462 completed)
Southern Premier South - 73.8% (341 matches out of 462 completed)
Isthmian Premier League - 77.1% (356 matches out of 462 completed)

TOTAL - 75.3% (1,391 matches out of 1,848 completed)

So if 75% of the season being completed isn't enough for relegation & promotion between the National League and the divisions below to happen, why on earth should the EFL consider accepting NL clubs on a PPG league table?

And it is worth noting that the plan was that this season the NL North & South would have been 24 clubs each rather than the 21 and 22 there are. So they could have accepted the 4 PPG champions from the division below without having to relegate anyone out of the NL North & South.

It's very simple. The NL needs to finish their season in full and on time or there will be no promotion & relegation between the EFL & the NL.

PPG is an absolute no no!
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ska face
February 15, 2021, 7:24am

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The EFL need to come out and be clear on their stance with this situation. Just for the sake of my sanity if nothing else.

Be good to see clubs taking on financially crippling loans only to be told by the EFL in May “oooooh it’s a no from us, thanks guys”.
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pen penfras
February 15, 2021, 8:57am

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I think the bigger concern is about the stability of the league rather than whether PPG is allowed. The EFL will only relegate teams to a stable division that allows them to compete, and at the moment there is absolutely no way that anybody can say the NL is that. And with the unknowns of what covid will look like next year, there's a very good argument for the bottom 2 teams to say that they shouldn't be kicked out into what may well end up as oblivion in 12 months time.
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Nutsy
February 15, 2021, 12:31pm
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As much as I want the National League suspending to stop us sliding down, I see only two options:
1 - keep on and finish the season and see what clubs fold
2 - Points per game and end the season based on that
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ska face
February 15, 2021, 12:34pm

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PPG isn’t an option that the clubs have. At the minute, it’s null & void within the next fortnight, or play on. Dover, at least, have said they’re not going to play on so it’s already shāgged.
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GollyGTFC
February 15, 2021, 1:01pm

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The first 35 minutes of the Non-League Show on BBC Three Counties Radio from yesterday are worth a listen. Quite an in depth look at the situation in the NL.
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smokey111
February 15, 2021, 1:08pm
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Is a decision imminent?


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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ska face
February 15, 2021, 1:13pm

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Ollie Bayliss (and the bloke from Radio York) seems to think a decision should be made this week. They also seem fairly confident that the NL will continue.
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RichMariner
February 15, 2021, 1:54pm
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I'm confident the NL will vote to continue, but the integrity of the competition has already been compromised by Dover choosing not to play on.

They won't get relegated as the league below them will be null and void, and the NL can't fine them because they haven't got any money.

I'm sure it won't be too long before some other clubs, like Kings Lynn, take the same stance.

Then you've got the fixture pile-up, which could get worse as any further bad weather - frost or rain - will worsen pitches that are already in a poor state.

So yes, NL clubs will probably vote to carry on, but then there's going to be fall-outs between the clubs that voted to carry on and those who are being forced to carry on and take on a debt they never wanted.

I guess they could avoid the debt by furloughing their squads, but that brings us right round to where this post started, and that's the integrity of the competition.

If it's not competitive or fair then you cannot judge the achievements of each club fairly. Would the EFL accept a promoted team based on the fact that it never played Dover and only had to beat starting XIs made up of free transfers taken from the street?


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RonMariner
February 15, 2021, 2:09pm

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I thought the NL cancelling was a very long shot, but now that Dover have made a stand it will only take a couple more to follow suit and the entire thing will collapse in a heap.

It could happen.
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GollyGTFC
February 15, 2021, 2:45pm

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Quoted from RonMariner
I thought the NL cancelling was a very long shot, but now that Dover have made a stand it will only take a couple more to follow suit and the entire thing will collapse in a heap.

It could happen.


This.

Domino effect.
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Swansea_Mariner
February 15, 2021, 5:37pm
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If your Barnet for example, completely cut adrift, why on earth would you take on another half million pounds of debt when you can just furlough your entire staff, save on most of your costs and face no fear of relegation.

I can't see clubs being kicked out because it will end in litigation, how could the NL board argue in court that a club should purposely break it's own rules by taking on loans.

I would think more clubs will undoubtedly follow Dover, whether its enough to cause the season to void is another question.
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DB
February 15, 2021, 5:52pm
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I think come the end of the month the vote will not matter. Clubs who stand no chance of promotion will think why carry on with a loan. If we do a Dover then the season will have to end.

Can any chairman justify taking a loan to have his club relegated. It will not matter what those at the top want, and vote for, they have to play those at the bottom end of the league. No match's means the league will fold, it's not a matter of if, but when.


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smokey111
February 15, 2021, 6:22pm
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Quoted from DB
I think come the end of the month the vote will not matter. Clubs who stand no chance of promotion will think why carry on with a loan. If we do a Dover then the season will have to end.

Can any chairman justify taking a loan to have his club relegated. It will not matter what those at the top want, and vote for, they have to play those at the bottom end of the league. No match's means the league will fold, it's not a matter of if, but when.


This.

I, for one, will breathe a huge sigh of relief when (fingers crossed) it happens.


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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Meza
February 15, 2021, 6:54pm

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I personally think promotion and relegation will still happen.

i think 2 will be relegated from Lg2 into NL and 2 promoted from NL to Lg2.  No relegations from NL.


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Meza
February 15, 2021, 6:54pm

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I personally think promotion and relegation will still happen.

i think 2 will be relegated from Lg2 into NL and 2 promoted from NL to Lg2.  No relegations from NL.


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ginnywings
February 15, 2021, 8:04pm

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I expect the NL are dragging it out for another week, hoping Bojo will have some news regards easing the lockdown on 22nd Feb. I think they will be disappointed.
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IlkleyMariner
February 15, 2021, 8:06pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
I expect the NL are dragging it out for another week, hoping Bojo will have some news regards easing the lockdown on 22nd Feb. I think they will be disappointed.


Think u r right.
Can’t see fans back before Easter then maybe not at all this season.
Dover chairman spot on.....
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Eastendmariner
February 15, 2021, 8:26pm
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can't see it myself even Euro 2021 will fall by the wayside we won't be back till 21/22   so the NL is under pressure to go on


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Meza
February 15, 2021, 8:40pm

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you have 3 different bodies looking after each league (ha if thats what you call looking after).  EPL, EFL, VNL, why cant this all be under 1.  The season will not stop but the boys at the top (PREM) will force the leagues to continue so they can honour their contractual commitments and have the promotion / relegation from each league to continue.  Those clubs that refuse to play i.e. Dover will just have there points and games bypassed and the league will continue until 2 teams can be promoted.  


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Maringer
February 15, 2021, 9:57pm
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Euro 2021 will go ahead (though it's still officially called Euro 2020, I think!). Wouldn't surprise me if they held the tournament in just one or two cities rather than spread around Europe, however. I can't see any fans being allowed regardless, so it doesn't really matter where it is held as long as there are good enough stadia to be used.

God only knows what is going to happen with the NL/EFL.
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DB
February 16, 2021, 3:18am
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Quoted from Meza
I personally think promotion and relegation will still happen.

i think 2 will be relegated from Lg2 into NL and 2 promoted from NL to Lg2.  No relegations from NL.


If their is no relegation from the NL then their is no integrity and also will the NL break it's own rules.


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Meza
February 16, 2021, 7:36am

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Quoted from DB


If their is no relegation from the NL then their is no integrity and also will the NL break it's own rules.


Integrity means nothing to these people, finishing the league is their only priority, as since when will EFL give 2 monkeys about Grimsby Town or any team for that matter so many clubs they have failed in the past without a care in the world.  They wont care what league they will be sending Town into.


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Les Brechin
February 16, 2021, 7:56am

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Quoted from Meza


Integrity means nothing to these people, finishing the league is their only priority, as since when will EFL give 2 monkeys about Grimsby Town or any team for that matter so many clubs they have failed in the past without a care in the world.  They wont care what league they will be sending Town into.


I don't really think they'll be "sending" us into The National League. If we finish in the bottom 2, we'll deserve to be relegated.


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GollyGTFC
February 16, 2021, 8:44am

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Unless there is 100% certainty that crowds will be back in stadia by August and the NL will start their season then there is no way the EFL will be able to send 2 of it’s members into oblivion.

What ever you think about the bottom 2 clubs deserving to be relegated the EFL rules are clear that their has to be a league for the departing clubs to join. That is far from certain and given the civil war breaking out at that level I can’t see how the NL could be deemed to be a secure league.

In fact the NL is in such a mess I wouldn’t even want Stevenage sent there.
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MNH1972
February 16, 2021, 8:57am
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Tonbridge Angels furloughed full squad and brought in a new team to play for free!!
Is this what is called elite sport ?
I’m sorry this is not right and football teams should not be furloughing players never mind a full squad
I’m sure somewhere down the line the words “Fair Competition” will be used
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Hagrid
February 16, 2021, 9:00am

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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Unless there is 100% certainty that crowds will be back in stadia by August and the NL will start their season then there is no way the EFL will be able to send 2 of it’s members into oblivion.

What ever you think about the bottom 2 clubs deserving to be relegated the EFL rules are clear that their has to be a league for the departing clubs to join. That is far from certain and given the civil war breaking out at that level I can’t see how the NL could be deemed to be a secure league.

In fact the NL is in such a mess I wouldn’t even want Stevenage sent there.


You’re so wrong. The EFL dont care. Finish bottom 2, you’ll go to the NL and deserve too. Simple
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NorthseaMariner
February 16, 2021, 9:03am
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Well that’s not going to be us is it. 🤔
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Poojah
February 16, 2021, 9:45am
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Quoted from Les Brechin


I don't really think they'll be "sending" us into The National League. If we finish in the bottom 2, we'll deserve to be relegated.


The frustrating question for me is who are “we” in this context? The ownership? The manager? The players? Absolutely, however the overwhelming majority of those most culpable won’t even be here when (or perhaps if) next season kicks off.

Who’s left to pick up the pieces? Once again, as it always is, it’s the fans. Do “we” deserve it?

It’s well documented what the fans did to drag this club back out of non-league, driven by the pain we had already endured in our multiple failed attempts.

Since arriving back in the EFL, we’ve consistently delivered top 10 average attendances. This in spite of the fact that the team has consistently delivered lower bottom half finishes, and that we typically receive below average away followings from other clubs due to our awkward geographical position.

As for the quantity and quality of our own away support, I need say nothing about that.

I, like many others, waived my right to a refund for the remainder of last season’s ticket. I paid for my season ticket again prior to the season in hope that I might get to see some live Town action, but with the understanding that I may very well get to witness fúck all in the flesh.

Why did I do that? I’d already shelled out £140 for iFollow, so I had nothing to gain on that front. Ultimately, in these uncertain times I wanted the club to have my money to survive, both in existential terms and in football league status.

Almost one and a half thousand others did the same. Many, I’m sure will have done so despite financially uncertain times for themselves. I would love to know how our percentage of season ticket revenue versus ‘normal’ times compares to others in League Two, but I am confident that it will be up there amongst the highest and absolutely certain it will be better than bottom two.

Ultimately, the money generated by the fans in tough times, and more importantly their trust, has been misspent. There are people responsible for the debacle this season has turned out to be who deserve absolutely everything coming their way, and boy is it coming for some.

But yet again, it is the fans that suffer. And I think there are, genuinely, few fan bases which pound for pound deserve what is happening to us yet again less than we do.


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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GollyGTFC
February 16, 2021, 10:41am

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Quoted from MNH1972
Tonbridge Angels furloughed full squad and brought in a new team to play for free!!
Is this what is called elite sport ?
I’m sorry this is not right and football teams should not be furloughing players never mind a full squad
I’m sure somewhere down the line the words “Fair Competition” will be used


Tonbridge would argue without doing that they would be insolvent and all those players and staff would be made redundant.

The furlough scheme was designed to protect viable jobs for when we’re back to normal/the new normal.

I don’t think you can argue that Tonbridge are a viable business once crowds return. They have a long history to back that up.
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Zmariner
February 16, 2021, 10:42am
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Quoted from Poojah


The frustrating question for me is who are “we” in this context? The ownership? The manager? The players? Absolutely, however the overwhelming majority of those most culpable won’t even be here when (or perhaps if) next season kicks off.

Who’s left to pick up the pieces? Once again, as it always is, it’s the fans. Do “we” deserve it?

It’s well documented what the fans did to drag this club back out of non-league, driven by the pain we had already endured in our multiple failed attempts.

Since arriving back in the EFL, we’ve consistently delivered top 10 average attendances. This in spite of the fact that the team has consistently delivered lower bottom half finishes, and that we typically receive below average away followings from other clubs due to our awkward geographical position.

As for the quantity and quality of our own away support, I need say nothing about that.

I, like many others, waived my right to a refund for the remainder of last season’s ticket. I paid for my season ticket again prior to the season in hope that I might get to see some live Town action, but with the understanding that I may very well get to witness fúck all in the flesh.

Why did I do that? I’d already shelled out £140 for iFollow, so I had nothing to gain on that front. Ultimately, in these uncertain times I wanted the club to have my money to survive, both in existential terms and in football league status.

Almost one and a half thousand others did the same. Many, I’m sure will have done so despite financially uncertain times for themselves. I would love to know how our percentage of season ticket revenue versus ‘normal’ times compares to others in League Two, but I am confident that it will be up there amongst the highest and absolutely certain it will be better than bottom two.

Ultimately, the money generated by the fans in tough times, and more importantly their trust, has been misspent. There are people responsible for the debacle this season has turned out to be who deserve absolutely everything coming their way, and boy is it coming for some.

But yet again, it is the fans that suffer. And I think there are, genuinely, few fan bases which pound for pound deserve what is happening to us yet again less than we do.


This really struck a chord with me. My situation exactly the same, season tickets wanting to support the club. I have not looked at the league table in terror for months now, I watch virtually no otherfootball,When Saturday comes, I logon with some sort of deluded expectation and it is rubbish every week and has been for months.
My conclusion, as much as I have loved the Mariners over the years, is that this is a really toxic hobby.
Because I am unashamedly a Mariners addict I have had to distance myself from the whole shambles as pathetic as it sounds as it makes me bloody miserable
Once we are back in the National league, I am going to find it nearly impossible to generate enthusiasm unless the new owners somehow paint a picture that looks a lot different. I went to several of the away games in nonleague around the London area as that was where I was working at the time. Anybody who thought these were good awaydays is my hero as I thought that most of them were crap. I dragged myself to Wembley to watch the FA Trophy games with the same enthusiasm that you would watch the charity shield!
My point is that for me, and I suspect a lot of others We are getting close to throwing the towel in as we just live on past glories. Utm
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louth_in_the_south
February 16, 2021, 11:39am

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Speak for yourself Z I had some cracking away days at those clubs in and around the London area . Better than a lot of league games .

Once was enough having said that .


Lower F5
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ginnywings
February 16, 2021, 12:04pm

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Darlington refusing to play Boston tonight. Losing 50k a month and saying it is against the leagues rules to be playing while insolvent.

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BobbyCummingsTackle
February 16, 2021, 1:03pm
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Quoted from Zmariner


This really struck a chord with me. My situation exactly the same, season tickets wanting to support the club. I have not looked at the league table in terror for months now, I watch virtually no otherfootball,When Saturday comes, I logon with some sort of deluded expectation and it is rubbish every week and has been for months.
My conclusion, as much as I have loved the Mariners over the years, is that this is a really toxic hobby.
Because I am unashamedly a Mariners addict I have had to distance myself from the whole shambles as pathetic as it sounds as it makes me bloody miserable
Once we are back in the National league, I am going to find it nearly impossible to generate enthusiasm unless the new owners somehow paint a picture that looks a lot different. I went to several of the away games in nonleague around the London area as that was where I was working at the time. Anybody who thought these were good awaydays is my hero as I thought that most of them were crap. I dragged myself to Wembley to watch the FA Trophy games with the same enthusiasm that you would watch the charity shield!
My point is that for me, and I suspect a lot of others We are getting close to throwing the towel in as we just live on past glories. Utm


So, there is an important point here because the world is pretty sh*tty at the moment and your mental health is really important.....

Supporting Grimsby Town is a choice we have all made and investing emotion in the club is also a choice. We may not have made that choice consciously but it is still a choice. Therefore, it is also a choice to not support Grimsby Town and not invest emotional capital in the club. Any one of us who says something like 'it really depresses me...' is demonstrating their emotional investment in the club.

We have to rationally step back and say to ourselves that being so involved in GTFC is not good for our mental health.

And there is a hugely important factor that you may find useful for someone to try to explain. We ,as fans, have absolutely no control over what happens at the club on or off the pitch. Therefore, we are investing our emotion into something that we have no control over and we are leaving our emotional state open to chance. Part of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy teaches us that we have to accept that there are things in life that we can control and things we can't. So what we have to do is take control of the things we can control and change them for the better. We also have to learn to 'step away' from the things we can't control and minimise their impact on us.

I did this some years ago with Town when my wife said to me that she dreaded the football results on a Saturday afternoon because my mood and behaviour for the rest of the weekend changed according to Town's result. I was aware of this but not the impact it made on others. I felt that this wasn't fair on her and the people close to me. I also knew that I was anxious about Town results and pretty low when they lost. For a number of years I had little or no interest in Town and Saturday afternoon stopped having a major impact on my emotions and my family. I made a conscious decision to 'take out' a factor that I had no control over.

If Town go down to the NL at the end of this season I will be disappointed but it will be for seconds. I have taught myself that I can't get emotional about Town because I can't control what they do. Another thing I tell myself regularly is that club is so poorly managed that it's failure is inevitable and I shouldn't worry about that.

I am not saying that we should stop supporting Town but I am saying that you should think about your mental health in relation to them.

Some of you will be reading this and thinking 'tree hugging sh*t' or 'I have no choice about supporting Town, it's not a choice it's a religion (or whatever)'. It isn't, it's a choice. Don't take my word for it, go ask a close family member what affect Town's result has on your mood for the rest of the day/weekend/week.

You can't control what Town does but you can control the impact it has on you.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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DB
February 16, 2021, 1:05pm
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You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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ska face
February 16, 2021, 1:42pm

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3 to play on.
3 to null & void.
1 abstention.

16 to declare.

First to 12 takes it.

9 votes from 16 remaining required.  

28th Feb deadline.
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MarinerWY
February 16, 2021, 2:28pm

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Quoted from Poojah


The frustrating question for me is who are “we” in this context? The ownership? The manager? The players? Absolutely, however the overwhelming majority of those most culpable won’t even be here when (or perhaps if) next season kicks off.

Who’s left to pick up the pieces? Once again, as it always is, it’s the fans. Do “we” deserve it?

It’s well documented what the fans did to drag this club back out of non-league, driven by the pain we had already endured in our multiple failed attempts.

Since arriving back in the EFL, we’ve consistently delivered top 10 average attendances. This in spite of the fact that the team has consistently delivered lower bottom half finishes, and that we typically receive below average away followings from other clubs due to our awkward geographical position.

As for the quantity and quality of our own away support, I need say nothing about that.

I, like many others, waived my right to a refund for the remainder of last season’s ticket. I paid for my season ticket again prior to the season in hope that I might get to see some live Town action, but with the understanding that I may very well get to witness fúck all in the flesh.

Why did I do that? I’d already shelled out £140 for iFollow, so I had nothing to gain on that front. Ultimately, in these uncertain times I wanted the club to have my money to survive, both in existential terms and in football league status.

Almost one and a half thousand others did the same. Many, I’m sure will have done so despite financially uncertain times for themselves. I would love to know how our percentage of season ticket revenue versus ‘normal’ times compares to others in League Two, but I am confident that it will be up there amongst the highest and absolutely certain it will be better than bottom two.

Ultimately, the money generated by the fans in tough times, and more importantly their trust, has been misspent. There are people responsible for the debacle this season has turned out to be who deserve absolutely everything coming their way, and boy is it coming for some.

But yet again, it is the fans that suffer. And I think there are, genuinely, few fan bases which pound for pound deserve what is happening to us yet again less than we do.


In that sense no we don't deserve it, but I'm sure many others clubs' fans also feel aggrieved when they go down, having put so much in. I'm not sure a good number of town fans would give much sympathy to other clubs who have been relegated after being shite on the pitch, even if they have had unjust mismanagement for years. In that sense we do deserve it as a club, it's on the ground results that decide it and everything else is irrelevant circumstance as far as that goes.

Doesn't mean I aren't properly drunk off mind.
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Mikey_345
February 16, 2021, 2:30pm
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Quoted from ska face
3 to play on.
3 to null & void.
1 abstention.

16 to declare.

First to 12 takes it.

9 votes from 16 remaining required.  

28th Feb deadline.


Thanks Ska.

Point remains, which I think you’ve raised aswell. Say there is a 13/10 split in favour of carrying on, how many are going to follow in Dovers footsteps.

For me the vote is irrelevant if there are a number of clubs wanting to end as they are running insolvent. It only takes 3/4 more and the league cannot continue IMO. Well at least it can’t and still be taken as a serious competition


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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GollyGTFC
February 16, 2021, 2:34pm

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Quoted from Hagrid


You’re so wrong. The EFL dont care. Finish bottom 2, you’ll go to the NL and deserve too. Simple


The EFL are the 72 member clubs. The 72 member clubs are the EFL. Grimsby Town are 1/72 of the EFL.

I know bashing the EFL is all the rage, but the general failure to realise the above if incredible.

And anyway, the EFL have rules about cessation of membership and the rule is quite clear. The club exiting downwards must have a league to join. If the NL can not 100% guarantee the 2021/22 will start on time and be completed in full the EFL will not allow 2 of its members to have to become NL clubs.
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GollyGTFC
February 16, 2021, 2:38pm

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Quoted from Mikey_345


Thanks Ska.

Point remains, which I think you’ve raised aswell. Say there is a 13/10 split in favour of carrying on, how many are going to follow in Dovers footsteps.

For me the vote is irrelevant if there are a number of clubs wanting to end as they are running insolvent. It only takes 3/4 more and the league cannot continue IMO. Well at least it can’t and still be taken as a serious competition


I think it will end up with court proceeding being issued and the clubs refusing the play in the meantime will ultimately lead to the fixture pileup to be too great for the season to be completed and the season will be voided.
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forza ivano
February 16, 2021, 3:03pm

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i think it's irrelevant for GTFC as to what Step 2 clubs are, or are not, doing.
It looks pretty certain that  step2 will vote to null and void the season, but Step 1 will continue  (once again the footballing gods will conspire to do everything they can to hinder us!)
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ska face
February 16, 2021, 3:15pm

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I still don’t see where people are getting the idea that Step 1 continuing is nailed on. Like we said (p)ages ago, there’s been plenty of talk from clubs, but how many actually have the means to continue without any guarantee that they’ll get another penny from anywhere this season?

I can’t see Blozza letting fans in until August from the way he’s been going on. The Sport England board don’t meet next until early March, by which point the votes will have been cast. The Dover Chairman said they needed about £400k just to get to the end of the season, and they’ll have one of the smaller budgets in the division.

I’m not saying it won’t happen, I just can’t see anything that points to clubs losing touch with reality en masse in the hope of squeezing into one of two promotion slots.
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GrimRob
February 16, 2021, 3:31pm

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What's the point of the clubs in the bottom third of Step 1 (or Step 2) playing on? If they do with no relegation then they are just accruing debts for the benefit of others in the division and no benefit unless they go on Hail Mary winning runs. If they do with relegation they could go down. It's lose/lose.


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DB
February 16, 2021, 3:33pm
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Quoted from Mikey_345


Thanks Ska.

Point remains, which I think you’ve raised aswell. Say there is a 13/10 split in favour of carrying on, how many are going to follow in Dovers footsteps.

For me the vote is irrelevant if there are a number of clubs wanting to end as they are running insolvent. It only takes 3/4 more and the league cannot continue IMO. Well at least it can’t and still be taken as a serious competition


I agree the vote will be irrelevant  as I can see a few of the bottom 10 clubs without a realistic promotion chance not playing. Why would any club chairman want to borrow money to get relegated. A lot will be looking at Dover and their reasons for not playing and think yep they're right. We'll stop.



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diehardmariner
February 16, 2021, 3:36pm
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Yeah, you've got to think that sensibly most chairman/owners/boards are going to look at it and think it's just not worth the risk of saddling their club with mountains of debt for a gamble.  

From mid-tableish down, there's nothing to play for as it's pretty much nailed on that there's no relegation this year.  From, let's say, from Halifax upwards...you've got to have balls of steel to roll that dice and carry on.  Even if you're Torquay, would you gamble?  Sutton can catch you with their games in hand and you've still got 20 games to play, could win them all, could drop to 8th....

Perspective of it is 2012/13 (I think) we were top of the pile over Xmas and New Year, but it was fairly tight and I believe Newport could go above us with a game in hand.  Right there and then, would you have wanted Town to have run the risk of burdening the club with debt because there's a chance we might go up?   I know I certainly wouldn't.

Bloody awful for the likes of Torquay and Sutton, but there are only two that will escape that mess.  The rest are going to be caught up in the fallout for a long time.
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ginnywings
February 16, 2021, 3:57pm

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Every club that votes to null and void or refuse to play is another straw on the camel's back of the NL.
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RichMariner
February 16, 2021, 4:19pm
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I'm not seeing any clubs saying they'll accept the outcome of the vote.

If the majority vote to continue the season, I just think those that didn't will do what Dover have done, thus making it impossible for the season to complete.

I mean, what can the NL do about that? They can't deduct points from them, because there will be no relegation, and they can't fine them because they haven't got any money. You can't saddle a club with debt for wanting to avoid taking on a debt. Morally, that'd make the NL bankrupt.

If this were a poker hand, and I was the NL, I think I'd fold.

You've got to consider the worst case scenario for each situation:

Force clubs to take on loans to complete the season? You're putting the existence of clubs in doubt and fatally damaging the integrity of your own competition.

Stop clubs who voted to finish the season? You'll deny a small group of them a reasonable chance of promotion and maybe weaken your hand with any future bargaining with the EFL.

Either way, the NL don't come out of this well. It's damage limitation either way - but (crucially) one route doesn't critically damage many of their member clubs.


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GollyGTFC
February 16, 2021, 4:33pm

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Quoted from ska face
I still don’t see where people are getting the idea that Step 1 continuing is nailed on. Like we said (p)ages ago, there’s been plenty of talk from clubs, but how many actually have the means to continue without any guarantee that they’ll get another penny from anywhere this season?

I can’t see Blozza letting fans in until August from the way he’s been going on. The Sport England board don’t meet next until early March, by which point the votes will have been cast. The Dover Chairman said they needed about £400k just to get to the end of the season, and they’ll have one of the smaller budgets in the division.

I’m not saying it won’t happen, I just can’t see anything that points to clubs losing touch with reality en masse in the hope of squeezing into one of two promotion slots.


Yes. I think a lot of people are assuming clubs that have said they “want” to continue will actually vote that way. Wanting to do something and being able to actually do it are two completely different things.
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Eastendmariner
February 16, 2021, 4:37pm
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we all know that 2 are promoted for NL and they need to have a good season to do it good players and a lot of Money that means 2 are successful the rest have failed  TBH  too bigger risk to be saddled with debt for a long time teams are gonna fold and the league will disintegrate


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DB
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I think at the beginning of the year the NL got their steamroller out, only to find their wasn't any fuel in it.


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February 16, 2021, 4:41pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


Yes. I think a lot of people are assuming clubs that have said they “want” to continue will actually vote that way. Wanting to do something and being able to actually do it are two completely different things.


Look. The NL is going to continue. Simple as that
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Mikey_345
February 16, 2021, 4:53pm
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Quoted from Hagrid


Look. The NL is going to continue. Simple as that


It may very well do. The point I and others are making is in what form. 5/6 teams refuse that then makes a mockery out of the ‘competition’


All Town aren’t we

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louth_in_the_south
February 16, 2021, 5:01pm

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Look . Hagrid’s pi.ssed off and believes we’re doomed ok .


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supertown
February 16, 2021, 5:03pm
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Quoted from Hagrid


Look. The NL is going to continue. Simple as that


Why the messing about with the vote, should have just asked you I guess 🤨
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TownSNAFU5
February 16, 2021, 5:16pm
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I can see legal action being taken against the NL.   Clubs putting in money collectively.  (Well what they have).
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pen penfras
February 16, 2021, 5:23pm

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I don't think the NL are doing the wrong thing by putting it to a vote. The mess is that it started when clubs clearly didn't know what was in place. The same as the EFL, but we got luckier.

The problem with the vote is that only a unanimous decision to continue is really viable. If some clubs can't afford to play on and take loans, which also breaks the NL's own rules, then a vote is meaningless.

How they deal with Dover will be interesting too. If they're lone wolves, then expulsion might happen. But if 4 or 5 clubs do the same, then the integrity of the league would be destroyed by expelling them all. I expect the vote will be to continue, but I don't think that means that it will continue at all.
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ska face
February 16, 2021, 5:27pm

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I wouldn’t be surprised to see teams carry on, but having money dry up before the season’s out. Expect players to be out on strike like Macc last season.
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Les Brechin
February 16, 2021, 6:50pm

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Quoted from Mikey_345


It may very well do. The point I and others are making is in what form. 5/6 teams refuse that then makes a mockery out of the ‘competition’


Dover already have up to 8 games to catch up on other teams in the league. If their next 2 or 3 are called off for refusing to play then it'll be a hell of a job for them to finish the season if the NL try to make them carry on.


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February 16, 2021, 7:00pm

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I wish we could focus 69 pages worth of positive energy into escaping the relegation battle than hypothesising about whether or not the NL will discontinue.


i would really like to know biccys favourite biscuit.
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supertown
February 16, 2021, 7:31pm
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Quoted from gtfc_akpa_akpro
I wish we could focus 69 pages worth of positive energy into escaping the relegation battle than hypothesising about whether or not the NL will discontinue.


I kind of agree but realistically we could be in that league next season so it is somewhat important where it goes
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ska face
February 16, 2021, 7:33pm

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Quoted from gtfc_akpa_akpro
I wish we could focus 69 pages worth of positive energy into escaping the relegation battle than hypothesising about whether or not the NL will discontinue.


Nobody’s stopping you, Eileen Drewery.
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Knut Anders Fosters Voles
February 16, 2021, 7:48pm
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Quoted from ska face


Nobody’s stopping you, Eileen Drewery.


Staring down at the precipice from the cliff edge of League 2,  it is more likely to be Eileen Dover
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GrimRob
February 16, 2021, 9:08pm

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Quoted from gtfc_akpa_akpro
I wish we could focus 69 pages worth of positive energy into escaping the relegation battle than hypothesising about whether or not the NL will discontinue.


We only play for 90 minutes a week. There are 9,990 other minutes to spend sleeping, eating, expelling bodily wastes, gazing despondently at the league table and a little time left to speculate on which way the National League vote is going to go.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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moosey_club
February 16, 2021, 9:41pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


The EFL are the 72 member clubs. The 72 member clubs are the EFL. Grimsby Town are 1 72 /72 of the EFL.

I know bashing the EFL is all the rage, but the general failure to realise the above if incredible.

And anyway, the EFL have rules about cessation of membership and the rule is quite clear. The club exiting downwards must have a league to join. If the NL can not 100% guarantee the 2021/22 will start on time and be completed in full the EFL will not allow 2 of its members to have to become NL clubs.


Amended  


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moosey_club
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Staring down at the precipice from the cliff edge of League 2,  it is more likely to be Eileen Dover


Ben's sister ?


2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
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2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
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Poojah
February 16, 2021, 10:02pm
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So, having followed this thread a tiny bit, what are the potential scenarios assuming Town fail to climb out of the League Two relegation zone?

- NL clubs vote to complete the season, season completes: Town are relegated

- NL clubs vote to complete the season: season fails to complete by end of May: Town are reprieved

- NL clubs vote to end the season: Town are reprieved

Are there other scenarios, or is that simple? I've seen it suggested on here that the EFL have already confirmed that they will not allow promotion / relegation to / from League Two in the event that it is able to complete but the NL cannot (i.e. PPG cannot be applied to a promotion scenario only) - is this definitely the case?

If I have it right (and adittedly there's every chance I don't!), you'd have to say that as we enter the second half of February with more than half the season to play for most sides, and the possibility of more postponements due to a combination of weather and Covid, it does look a tall order to get everything completed in time.


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Bawmariner
February 16, 2021, 10:16pm
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Quoted from Poojah
So, having followed this thread a tiny bit, what are the potential scenarios assuming Town fail to climb out of the League Two relegation zone?

- NL clubs vote to complete the season, season completes: Town are relegated

- NL clubs vote to complete the season: season fails to complete by end of May: Town are reprieved

- NL clubs vote to end the season: Town are reprieved

Are there other scenarios, or is that simple?
I've seen it suggested on here that the EFL have already confirmed that they will not allow promotion / relegation to / from League Two in the event that it is able to complete but the NL cannot (i.e. PPG cannot be applied to a promotion scenario only) - is this definitely the case?

If I have it right (and adittedly there's every chance I don't!), you'd have to say that as we enter the second half of February with more than half the season to play for most sides, and the possibility of more postponements due to a combination of weather and Covid, it does look a tall order to get everything completed in time.


Town could finish outside the relegation zone. Actually on second thoughts I think those are the only three scenarios.
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moosey_club
February 16, 2021, 10:49pm
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Quoted from Poojah
So, having followed this thread a tiny bit, what are the potential scenarios assuming Town fail to climb out of the League Two relegation zone?

- NL clubs vote to complete the season, season completes: Town are relegated

- NL clubs vote to complete the season: season fails to complete by end of May: Town are reprieved

- NL clubs vote to end the season: Town are reprieved

Are there other scenarios, or is that simple? I've seen it suggested on here that the EFL have already confirmed that they will not allow promotion / relegation to / from League Two in the event that it is able to complete but the NL cannot (i.e. PPG cannot be applied to a promotion scenario only) - is this definitely the case?

If I have it right (and adittedly there's every chance I don't!), you'd have to say that as we enter the second half of February with more than half the season to play for most sides, and the possibility of more postponements due to a combination of weather and Covid, it does look a tall order to get everything completed in time.


We finish bottom , the EFL are gutted at the prospect that they may lose the best run club in the League to non league and come to a behind the scenes deal that if we just slip a couple of boxes of our finest smoked haddock into their HQ they will sort it for us to stay up, just like the old days.




Unfortunately as part of the consortiums takeover deal and dock plans the final smoke houses were demolished to make way for a vegan food and smoothie village , EFL arent too chipper about receiving a kale and butternut squash smoothie instead and relegate us after all.



2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW
2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
2018/19  LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  
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KingstonMariner
February 17, 2021, 12:13am
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Quoted from DB
I think come the end of the month the vote will not matter. Clubs who stand no chance of promotion will think why carry on with a loan. If we do a Dover then the season will have to end.

Can any chairman justify taking a loan to have his club relegated. It will not matter what those at the top want, and vote for, they have to play those at the bottom end of the league. No match's means the league will fold, it's not a matter of if, but when.


That didn’t seem to trouble John Fenty!


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GollyGTFC
February 17, 2021, 6:47am

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Quoted from Poojah
So, having followed this thread a tiny bit, what are the potential scenarios assuming Town fail to climb out of the League Two relegation zone?

- NL clubs vote to complete the season, season completes: Town are relegated

- NL clubs vote to complete the season: season fails to complete by end of May: Town are reprieved

- NL clubs vote to end the season: Town are reprieved

Are there other scenarios, or is that simple? I've seen it suggested on here that the EFL have already confirmed that they will not allow promotion / relegation to / from League Two in the event that it is able to complete but the NL cannot (i.e. PPG cannot be applied to a promotion scenario only) - is this definitely the case?

If I have it right (and adittedly there's every chance I don't!), you'd have to say that as we enter the second half of February with more than half the season to play for most sides, and the possibility of more postponements due to a combination of weather and Covid, it does look a tall order to get everything completed in time.


Another scenario is they vote to continue, a few clubs follow Dover’s lead and threaten legal action and the league descends into chaos with so many games postponed that there is no possibility of the season finishing and the NL is null and void by default.
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GollyGTFC
February 17, 2021, 6:55am

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Worth considering the reports that a significant number of clubs haven’t voted yet and will only do so at the last moment including some who have voiced the opinion that they “want” to continue.

Why? If they were going to continue at all costs they would have voted already wouldn’t they? I am starting to think the vote will be a lot closer than some are predicting and might even be either 11-11 (with Wrexham abstaining) or a slender win for null and void.

Clubs waiting for a change of government policy suggests they will vote null and void when the government don’t back down (which they won’t).
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supertown
February 17, 2021, 7:51am
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There could be half a dozen who follow Wrexham’s lead
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MarinerGaz
February 17, 2021, 8:05am

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Quoted from supertown
There could be half a dozen who follow Wrexham’s lead


Wrexham are only abstaining as they do not qualify for the loans, all the other clubs are directly affected.
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pen penfras
February 17, 2021, 8:40am

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Quoted from MarinerGaz


Wrexham are only abstaining as they do not qualify for the loans, all the other clubs are directly affected.


That's not a reason to abstain. I think they're doing it because they don't want to make an unpopular decision either way and their new owners will keep them going this season if they have to.
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Marinerdeano
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Quoted from GollyGTFC
Worth considering the reports that a significant number of clubs haven’t voted yet and will only do so at the last moment including some who have voiced the opinion that they “want” to continue.

Why? If they were going to continue at all costs they would have voted already wouldn’t they? I am starting to think the vote will be a lot closer than some are predicting and might even be either 11-11 (with Wrexham abstaining) or a slender win for null and void.

Clubs waiting for a change of government policy suggests they will vote null and void when the government don’t back down (which they won’t).


Perhaps some are waiting to see how realistic a playoff bid really is and if some teams begin to pull away by end of February cast their vote then.
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ginnywings
February 17, 2021, 11:21am

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They are all waiting for the big Bojo roadmap announcement on Monday. Think there is zero chance fans will be allowed into grounds anytime soon, and the grant/loan situation isn't going to change either, so with the time to vote running out fast, we will know next week which way the vote goes.

If they vote to carry on, it won't end there because some will simply refuse to play or put out weakened sides.

I cannot see a way that the league will continue as a full and fair competition, so it will then be down to the powers that be to decide what is, or is not, acceptable regarding promotion and relegation to and from the NL.

There could also be legal challenges from both NL and EFL teams.

It's a complete mess, and to my mind, without fans, it's pointless to carry on, just so 2 teams from about 6 or 7 have a shot at promotion to the detriment of everybody else who can't afford to carry on.
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February 17, 2021, 12:02pm
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The FA have said they plan to use the FA Cup final (and another game, I forget which) as an experiment in getting fans back into stadiums, therefore no fans in grounds before mid May at the earliest.

The Daily Mail is reporting today that Johnson's roadmap will take us through to July (whatever you think of the Mail, it does have a direct line to Johnson and his cronies).

No fans for the rest of the season means no income for the rest of the season (or very much reduced) so loans will have to support clubs through to the start of next season (about 7 months).

If I was the chief exec or chairman of a small business (which is what NL clubs are) there is no way I would saddle the business with 7 months of debt when I have a viable and free alternative.


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Even if a majority vote to carry on, I can't see how they can force Dover and any other clubs that don't want to continue the season to take out loans and get into debt just to benefit a few clubs at the top.

I can see some of the 'no' voters simply following Dover's lead, at which point the NL becomes non-viable anyway.    
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Some of the clubs in the top half May even see this as a chance to consolidate their financial position ready for a push next year. Most of these clubs will be running at a loss, so if they’ve got the opportunity to cut costs to almost nothing for 4,5,6 months, it wouldn’t be too bad an idea.
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February 17, 2021, 12:32pm
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I am genuinely saddend how desperate you lads have become. Wanting teams to vote to end the legue when they have a chance of promotion - I am certain you would not be doing that if you were 1st/2nd in the NL. I would be stunned if any of you are bothered by how much debt Dover have or may carry forward.

I genuinally would hate to see you drop, as you are a decent size club, with a  rich history - But if you drop you deserve too - Not the fans fault, but decisons by your man JF have cost the club. But I do seem to remember pretty much everyone on here though IH was agreat appointment, and also good reception for most of the players signed.

Should have gone for someone on the way up, not the way down - Anyway I think you will survive, think Southend and Barrow will drop.  
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GrimRob
February 17, 2021, 12:42pm

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I am genuinely saddend how desperate you lads have become. Wanting teams to vote to end the legue when they have a chance of promotion - I am certain you would not be doing that if you were 1st/2nd in the NL. I would be stunned if any of you are bothered by how much debt Dover have or may carry forward.

I genuinally would hate to see you drop, as you are a decent size club, with a  rich history - But if you drop you deserve too - Not the fans fault, but decisons by your man JF have cost the club. But I do seem to remember pretty much everyone on here though IH was agreat appointment, and also good reception for most of the players signed.

Should have gone for someone on the way up, not the way down - Anyway I think you will survive, think Southend and Barrow will drop.  


It's like timewasting, tut tut when it's someone else but happily do it yourself.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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BlackandWhiteBarmy2
February 17, 2021, 12:52pm
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It seems the problem with the loans is that they take precedence over football creditors this is against the rules governing the sport.

https://www.thenonleaguefootba.....ue-rules-over-loans/


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DB
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I am genuinely saddend how desperate you lads have become. Wanting teams to vote to end the legue when they have a chance of promotion - I am certain you would not be doing that if you were 1st/2nd in the NL. I would be stunned if any of you are bothered by how much debt Dover have or may carry forward.

I genuinally would hate to see you drop, as you are a decent size club, with a  rich history - But if you drop you deserve too - Not the fans fault, but decisons by your man JF have cost the club. But I do seem to remember pretty much everyone on here though IH was agreat appointment, and also good reception for most of the players signed.

Should have gone for someone on the way up, not the way down - Anyway I think you will survive, think Southend and Barrow will drop.  


Desperate times call for desperate measures and were not in the NL.


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arryarryarry
February 17, 2021, 1:07pm
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Quoted from DB


Desperate times call for desperate measures and were not in the NL.


I think you missed the word "if" out and I agree with him.
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RichMariner
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I am genuinely saddend how desperate you lads have become. Wanting teams to vote to end the legue when they have a chance of promotion - I am certain you would not be doing that if you were 1st/2nd in the NL. I would be stunned if any of you are bothered by how much debt Dover have or may carry forward.

I genuinally would hate to see you drop, as you are a decent size club, with a  rich history - But if you drop you deserve too - Not the fans fault, but decisons by your man JF have cost the club. But I do seem to remember pretty much everyone on here though IH was agreat appointment, and also good reception for most of the players signed.

Should have gone for someone on the way up, not the way down - Anyway I think you will survive, think Southend and Barrow will drop.  


I suppose we are desperate, but we're in a pretty desperate situation on the pitch and in the league. I don't think it should surprise you that we're taking such an interest in the NL and hoping things work out in our favour.

BUT that's not to say any of us are revelling in this. I think we're unanimous in saying we'd rather stay up on merit. I'm still working on the principle that we have a chance to stay up on merit. I'm desperate for us to win every game and pull away from the bottom two so we're not affected by what's happening in the league below.

Absolutely agree that if we get relegated, it'll be because we deserved it. No arguments there.

I don't feel comfortable about being this desperate, but us fans have been to hell and back and we're not keen on returning, especially after all the money we've put into the club to firstly help it get promoted back into the EFL and secondly keep it afloat last summer and into this season.

Morally, I do genuinely believe it's best for non-league football and clubs in general that the NL season is null and void. Having weighed up both sides, it's the outcome that damages the fewest clubs.

Would I be miffed if I was a Torquay fan? For sure. Desperate? Only to continue. Our minds would change with our position, surely this is just natural? However, morally, even if I were a Torquay fan, I could just about understand the decision — not that I'd like it.

If I were a Dover fan and saw my club forced to take on a debt, I'd be livid, especially if it put the very existence of my club in peril.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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louth_in_the_south
February 17, 2021, 1:43pm

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As long as we stay in the FL I couldn’t care less what other fans think .


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TownSNAFU5
February 17, 2021, 3:09pm
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We are not cheating to get penalties, or going into Administration to avoid paying debts.  Just having bad (or good) thoughts about NL League management.  
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Fillipe Noche
February 17, 2021, 3:43pm
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
We are not cheating to get penalties, or going into Administration to avoid paying debts.  Just having bad (or good) thoughts about NL League management.  


Exactly right and couldn’t agree more. Through John’s expert business leadership, we as a club are financially sound, and should not be put at risk in a tin pot league that is financially unstable

Until the National League sorts itself out, I am advocating going back to the days when there was no promotion into the football league or relegation from the same.

If you want to be linked to the football league then you should at least have a duty to demonstrate stability and sustainability. For me the National League doesn’t. I’d hold that stance whether we were bottom of EFL2 or top of the Championship
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Northbank Mariner
February 17, 2021, 3:46pm
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche


Exactly right and couldn’t agree more. Through John’s expert business leadership, we as a club are financially sound, and should not be put at risk in a tin pot league that is financially unstable [b][/b]

Until the National League sorts itself out, I am advocating going back to the days when there was no promotion into the football league or relegation from the same.

If you want to be linked to the football league then you should at least have a duty to demonstrate stability and sustainability. For me the National League doesn’t. I’d hold that stance whether we were bottom of EFL2 or top of the Championship


I've come to the conclusion you are a parody account, either that or mentally unstable..
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denni266
February 17, 2021, 3:51pm

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Through John’s expert business leadership, we as a club are financially sound, and should not be put at risk in a tin pot league that is financially unstable [b][/b]

Its because of his tight behind spending that we are in this mess  end of
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BlackandWhiteBarmy2
February 17, 2021, 4:09pm
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche


Exactly right and couldn’t agree more. Through John’s expert business leadership, we as a club are financially sound, and should not be put at risk in a tin pot league that is financially unstable

Until the National League sorts itself out, I am advocating going back to the days when there was no promotion into the football league or relegation from the same.

If you want to be linked to the football league then you should at least have a duty to demonstrate stability and sustainability. For me the National League doesn’t. I’d hold that stance whether we were bottom of EFL2 or top of the Championship


What if we were in the top 2 of the National League?



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BraStrap
February 17, 2021, 4:09pm
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Sounds like Step 2 is going to go null and void. Some teams to take legal action on grounds of restricted practices.
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MuddyWaters
February 17, 2021, 4:23pm
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I am genuinely saddend how desperate you lads have become. Wanting teams to vote to end the legue when they have a chance of promotion - I am certain you would not be doing that if you were 1st/2nd in the NL. I would be stunned if any of you are bothered by how much debt Dover have or may carry forward.

I genuinally would hate to see you drop, as you are a decent size club, with a  rich history - But if you drop you deserve too - Not the fans fault, but decisons by your man JF have cost the club. But I do seem to remember pretty much everyone on here though IH was agreat appointment, and also good reception for most of the players signed.

Should have gone for someone on the way up, not the way down - Anyway I think you will survive, think Southend and Barrow will drop.  


Given the choice between staying in the league or the moral high ground, I'm happy for a 'null & void' outcome. Seems slightly odd that a fan of a  club that was non league more recently than us has lost his memory so rapidly.
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DB
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche


Exactly right and couldn’t agree more. Through John’s expert business leadership, we as a club are financially sound, and should not be put at risk in a tin pot league that is financially unstable

Until the National League sorts itself out, I am advocating going back to the days when there was no promotion into the football league or relegation from the same.

If you want to be linked to the football league then you should at least have a duty to demonstrate stability and sustainability. For me the National League doesn’t. I’d hold that stance whether we were bottom of EFL2 or top of the Championship


£400K of loans which have not been paid off over the years is not financially sound. If it is financially sound why does JF want his money out, surely to keep the club financially sound it would be better for him to leave his money where it is?

PS  24 hours and still no answer to my other questions, how much more time do you need?


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DB
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Chester 3rd in NLN have decided to stop playing. This may be an answer to all who say that teams in the promotion hunt will want to carry on. A new perspective on the whole messy situation.

https://nonleaguedaily.com/chester-will-not-play-until-decision-over-season-made/


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Bristol Mariner
February 17, 2021, 6:18pm

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I am genuinely saddend how desperate you lads have become. Wanting teams to vote to end the legue when they have a chance of promotion - I am certain you would not be doing that if you were 1st/2nd in the NL. I would be stunned if any of you are bothered by how much debt Dover have or may carry forward.

I genuinally would hate to see you drop, as you are a decent size club, with a  rich history - But if you drop you deserve too - Not the fans fault, but decisons by your man JF have cost the club. But I do seem to remember pretty much everyone on here though IH was agreat appointment, and also good reception for most of the players signed.

Should have gone for someone on the way up, not the way down - Anyway I think you will survive, think Southend and Barrow will drop.  


Patronising 🛎  end


GTFC Exile, Bristol Mariners
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February 17, 2021, 6:24pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Given the choice between staying in the league or the moral high ground, I'm happy for a 'null & void' outcome. Seems slightly odd that a fan of a  club that was non league more recently than us has lost his memory so rapidly.


He'll be one of the 70% of their fans that only saw the last four months of their stint in non-league so no wonder it doesn't register much.


Looking forward to a brighter future now Fenty has gone.
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Bristol Mariner
February 17, 2021, 6:27pm

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Quoted from Fillipe Noche


Exactly right and couldn’t agree more. Through John’s expert business leadership, we as a club are financially sound, and should not be put at risk in a tin pot league that is financially unstable

Until the National League sorts itself out, I am advocating going back to the days when there was no promotion into the football league or relegation from the same.

If you want to be linked to the football league then you should at least have a duty to demonstrate stability and sustainability. For me the National League doesn’t. I’d hold that stance whether we were bottom of EFL2 or top of the Championship


I sense you have a blinded love for ‘John’ and that’s why you spout absolute excrement on here all the time..when your hero has packed his bag and walked off with his money and money from the Trust, probably leaving us in the NL - what will you do at night?


GTFC Exile, Bristol Mariners
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February 17, 2021, 6:29pm
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Quoted from Bristol Mariner


I sense you have a blinded love for ‘John’ and that’s why you spout absolute excrement on here all the time..when your hero has packed his bag and walked off with his money and money from the Trust, probably leaving us in the NL - what will you do at night?


Probably shine the butt plug ready for action!...
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What if we were in the top 2 of the National League?



Other than due to extenuating circumstances (such as now) dropping promotion to the EFL would be criminal.
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MarinerWY
February 17, 2021, 10:08pm

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What if we were in the top 2 of the National League?



If we were top of national league we'd be kicking right off if it got cancelled, there would be cries of 'being punished for other clubs not being run properly', arguments thst points per game should be done, the lot.

I hope National League gets pulled and we stay up. But Im not going to say I think that would be just or that there is some precedent for it. It would be an undeserved get-out-of-jail card and I'd take it, and admit to the top NL teams' fans that it was completely unfair and I would genuinely be sorry for them.

I bloody hope it happens.
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DB
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You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Mikey_345
February 17, 2021, 10:45pm
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That’s a very misleading article. They have abstained and not changed from that. Only difference is they’ve voted for resolution 1 and hope it continues but have still abstained.

"The club has now voted in favour of Resolution 1 but will maintain its position of abstaining on the other resolutions,"


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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ginnywings
February 17, 2021, 10:45pm

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Quoted from DB


Surprise!

They have moved into the play off spots and change their tune.
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louth_in_the_south
February 17, 2021, 10:47pm

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I think Wrexham would always be voting to continue given their recent investment.


Lower F5
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louth_in_the_south
February 17, 2021, 10:51pm

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Just having had a quick look at the NL table I think the vote will end up 13-10 in favour of stopping.


Lower F5
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BlackandWhiteBarmy2
February 17, 2021, 10:58pm
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Quoted from Heisenberg


Other than due to extenuating circumstances (such as now) dropping promotion to the EFL would be criminal.


I agree. I was just wondering why Mr Noche had to come out with his slagging of a league we were in until recently rather than just putting it as you did.



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ska face
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Quoted from Mikey_345
That’s a very misleading article. They have abstained and not changed from that. Only difference is they’ve voted for resolution 1 and hope it continues but have still abstained.

"The club has now voted in favour of Resolution 1 but will maintain its position of abstaining on the other resolutions,"


Yep, absolute toss from the BBC there. To be expected for anything below the top half of the Prem, mind ✊💦


Dorking owner saying he expects null & void decision imminently at that step but they’re taking legal advice and will be challenging the validity of the resolutions. He can suck it out my ring, N&V across the board please gents!

Also says they should cut loose the teams that don’t want to continue and let those who so get on with it. What kind of impact would that have on the league, where there is no relegation and only promotion to be gained? Be good for the neutrals no doubt and plenty of high scoring games as teams have nothing to lose. Totally skews the division though with half of it still to be played.  
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Hagrid
February 17, 2021, 11:15pm

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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
Just having had a quick look at the NL table I think the vote will end up 13-10 in favour of stopping.


No chance
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louth_in_the_south
February 17, 2021, 11:22pm

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Ok sorry. My fu.cking mistake. Sorry


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louth_in_the_south
February 17, 2021, 11:26pm

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I’ll have a private bet on it if you want mr Hagrid ?


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Eastendmariner
February 17, 2021, 11:27pm
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I hope yr righT UTM even though we have plenty of games  nr us next year ?


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louth_in_the_south
February 17, 2021, 11:36pm

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Tempting but I’ll stick with the EFL thanks 😂


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GYinScuntland
February 18, 2021, 12:35am

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, football as we've known it is finished.
As in life in general these days we're stabbing each other in the back, classic divide and rule.
The fact that a thread can go on for 75 pages with a majority wanting football to end in the hope that we don't drop is disgraceful.
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DB
February 18, 2021, 3:12am
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Quoted from GYinScuntland
I've said it before and I'll say it again, football as we've known it is finished.
As in life in general these days we're stabbing each other in the back, classic divide and rule.
The fact that a thread can go on for 75 pages with a majority wanting football to end in the hope that we don't drop is disgraceful.


Football as I new it finished when money and the prem started. How many local players play in their local team now ?
Touching 70 and all I remember is people stabbing each other in the back, it's not nice and I don't like it but it's been a fact of life for decades so get use to it.
The reason this thread is so long goes back to last August when JF and oloway failed miserably to provide a football team of any calibre. They had already disbanded the basics of a good team for youth and shouted covid, covid it's all down to covid. Unfortunately the other 71 clubs took no notice of it. Then you have the inept mismanagement of the NL who want clubs to saddle themselves with debt, against their own rules and become insolvent with no means to pay the loan back. A league which Town may slip into.

So that my friend briefly is why this thread is 75 pages and may go on for another 75! until the mess called National League is sorted out and made null and void, or Town crawl to safety. I prefer the later but will take the first.



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Hagrid
February 18, 2021, 9:14am

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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
I’ll have a private bet on it if you want mr Hagrid ?


yeah gwon then Sir, Its a bet id be happy to lose!
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louth_in_the_south
February 18, 2021, 9:27am

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I bet you 2 pints at the first game we’re allowed back to next season that there are 12 or more teams that vote to cancel this season!!


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Hagrid
February 18, 2021, 9:35am

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I havent had an alcoholic drink since November!😅 i assume you mean National league teams not N & S also? If so yes the bet is on
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louth_in_the_south
February 18, 2021, 9:39am

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Given how things have gone that’s an unbelievable achievement.
NL teams only . Bet on mate .


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Hagrid
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Nice one! And i do hope im buying
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pontoonlew
February 18, 2021, 10:04am
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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
Given how things have gone that’s an unbelievable achievement.
NL teams only . Bet on mate .


Willing to bet 22 pints, it’s absolutely not going to happen
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GollyGTFC
February 18, 2021, 11:49am

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Quoted from DB


No.

They are honouring their abstention.

They have however voted for resolution 1 which allows each tier to decide their own fate rather than the league making a decision as a whole.
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GollyGTFC
February 18, 2021, 11:51am

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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
I’ll have a private bet on it if you want mr Hagrid ?


I would be happy to bet it won’t finish 13-10. Mainly because it can’t. There are only 22 votes with Wrexham abstaining.
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grimsby pete
February 18, 2021, 12:02pm

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What happens if it's 11-11 ?

Is there a tie break question ?


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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DB
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Interesting report on BBC North west tonight from about 15 mins in:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000sfks/north-west-tonight-evening-news-17022021

Curzon, Chester and Southport say no to continuing

Fylde, Chorley and Stockport say Yes to continue

Altringham confirmed that the report was wrong and they voted yes to continue


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toontown
February 18, 2021, 12:09pm
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Quoted from DB
Interesting report on BBC North west tonight from about 15 mins in:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000sfks/north-west-tonight-evening-news-17022021

Curzon, Chester and Southport say no

Fylde, Chorley and Stockport say Yes

Altringham confirmed that the report was wrong and they voted yes


Sorry, is that yes to voiding or yes to continuing?
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DB
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Quoted from toontown


Sorry, is that yes to voiding or yes to continuing?


Sorry I have amended the post to make it clearer


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RichMariner
February 18, 2021, 12:49pm
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Irrespective of who votes for what, quite simply I can't see the season concluding on time and in a way that's fair and valid.

You could have teams like Torquay playing a bunch of strangers thrown together by a club that didn't want to continue but was forced to. How valid does that make your achievements, when your promotion rivals had to play the same team when they were full strength?

The vote is the vote and that's fair enough. Vote whichever way you like.

But the teams that want the season null and voided are the ones with the upper hand here. If they're co-ordinated, they could all agree to refuse to play. I'm really not sure what the NL can do to punish them. Expel them... to where? No one can come up in their place; they're not completing their seasons at that level.

There you go, NL. Enjoy next season with just 14 clubs in your league.

As we keep saying, only one thing is true: the outcome of the vote will not be the end of this. Null and void the season, and it will be challenged. Don't null and void the season, and it will be challenged. Any legal challenges will just prolong the agony and make it worse for those who want to complete the season. More time and money wasted.


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Zero_as_a_limit
February 18, 2021, 1:43pm
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Quoted from RichMariner
You could have teams like Torquay playing a bunch of strangers thrown together by a club that didn't want to continue but was forced to. How valid does that make your achievements, when your promotion rivals had to play the same team when they were full strength?


Different sport, but the teams that vote 'no' could just do this using supporters for the rest of the season:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3z89yt

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KingstonMariner
February 18, 2021, 1:48pm
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Quoted from RichMariner
Irrespective of who votes for what, quite simply I can't see the season concluding on time and in a way that's fair and valid.

You could have teams like Torquay playing a bunch of strangers thrown together by a club that didn't want to continue but was forced to. How valid does that make your achievements, when your promotion rivals had to play the same team when they were full strength?

The vote is the vote and that's fair enough. Vote whichever way you like.

But the teams that want the season null and voided are the ones with the upper hand here. If they're co-ordinated, they could all agree to refuse to play. I'm really not sure what the NL can do to punish them. Expel them... to where? No one can come up in their place; they're not completing their seasons at that level.

There you go, NL. Enjoy next season with just 14 clubs in your league.

As we keep saying, only one thing is true: the outcome of the vote will not be the end of this. Null and void the season, and it will be challenged. Don't null and void the season, and it will be challenged. Any legal challenges will just prolong the agony and make it worse for those who want to complete the season. More time and money wasted.


Expel isn’t the same as relegate. Being expelled from the National League means you haven’t got any more fixtures in a recognised league. You’d have to see who wanted to admit you and potentially start some way down the regional pyramids.


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ivanosandwich
February 18, 2021, 2:20pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete
What happens if it's 11-11 ?

Is there a tie break question ?


Yes, in true Fishy Buster style, the attendance at the game between Woking v Dover
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RonMariner
February 18, 2021, 2:59pm

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Whatever way the vote goes, I just can't see clubs intentionally running up debt to please a few at the top who think they might go up.

I think Dover may be the first of many who refuse to carry on.
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davmariner
February 18, 2021, 4:05pm
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Chesterfield have voted to continue which is an odd one given they’re not exactly clear of relegation. Can’t see it being curtailed now.


Up The Mariners!
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pontoonlew
February 18, 2021, 4:55pm
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Chesterfield were a ‘swing’ club and that news means people on here aren’t going to get your wish.

I think we need to close this thread and hope our fantastic new squad are someday capable of beating 10 men.
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ginnywings
February 18, 2021, 5:14pm

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Quoted from davmariner
Chesterfield have voted to continue which is an odd one given they’re not exactly clear of relegation. Can’t see it being curtailed now.


Chances are, there won't be any relegation and other teams will be severely weakened if they are forced to play on with youth teamers and a cobbled together side, so Chesterfield may think they can climb into a play off spot. They are 12 points off the top 5 with games in hand.
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louth_in_the_south
February 18, 2021, 5:36pm

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Quoted from pontoonlew


Willing to bet 22 pints, it’s absolutely not going to happen


Ok I’m in . I’m going to be absolutely copulated regardless of what league were in .


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TownSNAFU5
February 18, 2021, 5:38pm
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If we close this thread then, can I mention some indirect good news for us in NL?

Last Tuesday ex Town defender Alex Whitmore scored the first goal in York’s first game at their new stadium. He was playing for Fylde, who won 3-1.  Paddy McLaughlin played for York.

No crowd and a home defeat for York.  Denting their promotion hopes, which will probably be curtailed and expunged  along with the result.

York have been after a new stadium as long as us.  They got funding in 2008.  It has still taken 13 years with numerous and different problems.  They have a 8,000 seat capacity.

(Thanks to Barrattstander for identifying the Whitmore goal).
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louth_in_the_south
February 18, 2021, 5:39pm

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Quoted from GollyGTFC


I would be happy to bet it won’t finish 13-10. Mainly because it can’t. There are only 22 votes with Wrexham abstaining.


I did take that into account as I said 12


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Manchester Mariner
February 18, 2021, 5:40pm

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They need to sort this out quick smart so fellas on here know whether or not to organise that open top bus parade to celebrate staying up via null and void.  


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louth_in_the_south
February 18, 2021, 5:42pm

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If it ends up 11-11 do Wrexham have the final say ?


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Mikey_345
February 18, 2021, 5:58pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew
Chesterfield were a ‘swing’ club and that news means people on here aren’t going to get your wish.

I think we need to close this thread and hope our fantastic new squad are someday capable of beating 10 men.


I think you’ve missed the point a few have made. It probably will be a majority in favour to continue. In fact I don’t see many arguing with that fact.

However if you get 3/4 more teams refuse to play like Dover then it cannot finish on the same terms and one would argue that would affect the final outcome.


All Town aren’t we

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louth_in_the_south
February 18, 2021, 6:16pm

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It’s all well and good you all poo pooing the chances of a majority voting to finish the season but if you were in charge of a club at NL level what would you do ? I’d publicly say I wanted to continue but when it came down to a final vote I’d be voting no and putting all my employees on furlough and saving myself a fat wedge of ££££ .


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ska face
February 18, 2021, 6:25pm

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Aren’t Chesterfield still pulling about £250,000 in parachute payments this year? Might go some way to explaining their position.
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DB
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If the vote is to continue and the clubs that voted to stop have to play they would in theory have to continue. However if they didn't take a loan and had no money who would pay their expenses?


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DB
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Quoted from ska face
Aren’t Chesterfield still pulling about £250,000 in parachute payments this year? Might go some way to explaining their position.


Given their league position they are getting money from somewhere.


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Mikey_345
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Quoted from DB
If the vote is to continue and the clubs that voted to stop have to play they would in theory have to continue. However if they didn't take a loan and had no money who would pay their expenses?


Yes but I have a feeling a few more will join Dover and simple say no, we can’t without funding. They know the NL have no comeback to that


All Town aren’t we

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arryarryarry
February 18, 2021, 6:47pm
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Quoted from Mikey_345


I think you’ve missed the point a few have made. It probably will be a majority in favour to continue. In fact I don’t see many arguing with that fact.

However if you get 3/4 more teams refuse to play like Dover then it cannot finish on the same terms and one would argue that would affect the final outcome.


Surely if a majority vote to continue, the others will have to accept that or risk being removed from the N.L. so what does it matter to the outside Football World if the National League Board and the teams that voted to continue are happy that a team may win the League based on possibly playing some weakened teams?

Why would the EFL be that bothered if the N.L. finishes and the team that finishes top wants to be promoted and that position has been accepted by a majority of teams?
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Les Brechin
February 18, 2021, 6:49pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
If we close this thread then, can I mention some indirect good news for us in NL?

Last Tuesday ex Town defender Alex Whitmore scored the first goal in York’s first game at their new stadium. He was playing for Fylde, who won 3-1.  Paddy McLaughlin played for York.

No crowd and a home defeat for York.  Denting their promotion hopes, which will probably be curtailed and expunged  along with the result.

York have been after a new stadium as long as us.  They got funding in 2008.  It has still taken 13 years with numerous and different problems.  They have a 8,000 seat capacity.

(Thanks to Barrattstander for identifying the Whitmore goal).


Nathan Pond was playing for Fylde too.



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Mikey_345
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Quoted from arryarryarry


Surely if a majority vote to continue, the others will have to accept that or risk being removed from the N.L. so what does it matter to the outside Football World if the National League Board and the teams that voted to continue are happy that a team may win the League based on possibly playing some weakened teams?

Why would the EFL be that bothered if the N.L. finishes and the team that finishes top wants to be promoted and that position has been accepted by a majority of teams?


In theory yes. But at what stage does it become a farce. There will be a point if that happens the EFL will need to clarify if a non completed season qualifies for promotion which they have previously said numerous times does not.

It’s a mess down there and I can only see it getting worse if they ask teams to play who simply cannot due to being insolvent.

They aren’t going to remove teams from the League. There’s zero chance they’d get away with it, teams would have a huge legal case against them. NL own rules say they cannot compete if playing whilst insolvent.


All Town aren’t we

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pontoonlew
February 18, 2021, 7:19pm
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Confirmed that NL is to continue with N/S null and void
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ginnywings
February 18, 2021, 7:21pm

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It's against the league's own rules to play while insolvent as it is to take on loans, so the NL board can't really punish them for pulling out.

They were also badly advised and encouraged to start the league for this year without funding in place beyond January. Many say they wouldn't have started had they known.
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ginnywings
February 18, 2021, 7:23pm

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Quoted from pontoonlew
Confirmed that NL is to continue with N/S null and void


Think that was obvious all along. Remains to be seen what the fallout will be.
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DB
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Quoted from pontoonlew
Confirmed that NL is to continue with N/S null and void


From where please


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Hagrid
February 18, 2021, 7:24pm

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Its on The national leagues twitter. intercourse. Well we’ll have to do it ourselves
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GrimRob
February 18, 2021, 7:25pm

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'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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ska face
February 18, 2021, 7:27pm

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Goodbye cruel world!
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Mikey_345
February 18, 2021, 7:28pm
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7 in favour of null and void, 13 against.

Think this still has an awful lot left in it this story. Can see a lot of those 7 simply refusing to play or furloughing and putting a makeshift team together.

Don’t think many are surprised with the result. It’s what comes after this that is more important I feel.


All Town aren’t we

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pontoonlew
February 18, 2021, 7:30pm
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7 against 13 in the NL, be interesting to see what those 7 decide to do.

I’d say our only thing to cling onto now will be the EFL stepping in and saying the league has lost its integrity.
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MarinerDevil
February 18, 2021, 7:31pm
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Yeah this still has legs in it but any chance of the EFL removing relegation this season - for whatever reason - is quite low in my opinion.

Win our next ten games and we can watch the NL crumble under legal challenges from afar.  
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LH
February 18, 2021, 7:41pm

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Marvellous.


😀🔫
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DB
February 18, 2021, 7:42pm
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So no relegation should mean no promotion. The NL is about promotion and relegation so you have to have both to have a league, otherwise their is no integrity.


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MarinerDevil
February 18, 2021, 7:45pm
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Quoted from DB
So no relegation should mean no promotion. The NL is about promotion and relegation so you have to have both to have a league, otherwise their is no integrity.

But if there is no relegation from L2, wouldn't the teams in the L1 relegation zone then argue the same, and so on?

We could definitely argue that integrity is diminished by teams furloughing first-team players and fielding weaker sides.  I certainly expect that question to be raised.
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Eastendmariner
February 18, 2021, 7:47pm
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well we have to stand by their decision  no team relegated  but promotion for 2 No Integrity at all so when the NL collapses  I won't have any sympathy with teams going bust


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Mikey_345
February 18, 2021, 7:48pm
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Quoted from MarinerDevil

But if there is no relegation from L2, wouldn't the teams in the L1 relegation zone then argue the same, and so on?

We could definitely argue that integrity is diminished by teams furloughing first-team players and fielding weaker sides.  I certainly expect that question to be raised.


Good point. However there is an argument that the EFL is moving between leagues in the same band. EFL to NL is slightly different.

The more realistic and most likely in my opinion is that a few clubs don’t continue then the EFL really have to step in and clarify their position. They did so before the season started.


All Town aren’t we

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DB
February 18, 2021, 7:50pm
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Quoted from MarinerDevil

But if there is no relegation from L2, wouldn't the teams in the L1 relegation zone then argue the same, and so on?

We could definitely argue that integrity is diminished by teams furloughing first-team players and fielding weaker sides.  I certainly expect that question to be raised.


I understand your point but I can remember when relegation to the Conference was not automatic. These are strange times calling for a practical solution for today only. Hopefully next season normal rules will apply.


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ginnywings
February 18, 2021, 7:51pm

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Quoted from MarinerDevil

But if there is no relegation from L2, wouldn't the teams in the L1 relegation zone then argue the same, and so on?

We could definitely argue that integrity is diminished by teams furloughing first-team players and fielding weaker sides.  I certainly expect that question to be raised.


The EFL aren't in a financial mess. The NL is, so there's no comparison.

For me, unless there is a full and fair league programme in the NL, they shouldn't expect to put a team in the EFL.
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DB
February 18, 2021, 7:54pm
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Quoted from Mikey_345


Good point. However there is an argument that the EFL is moving between leagues in the same band. EFL to NL is slightly different.

The more realistic and most likely in my opinion is that a few clubs don’t continue then the EFL really have to step in and clarify their position. They did so before the season started.


Which was


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DB
February 18, 2021, 7:58pm
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So what about Dover and their results? They will play if somebody pays but who is going to pay?


You can please some of the forumites some of the time but not all the forumites all of the time
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Eastendmariner
February 18, 2021, 8:08pm
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The EFL aren't in a financial mess. The NL is, so there's no comparison.

For me, unless there is a full and fair league programme in the NL, they shouldn't expect to put a team in the EFL.

q from giinywings

I would tend to agree relegation to NL is painful enough but into a league that a has a gamble attitude to it is worrying what happens if 6 clubs fold in the NL through this idea of continuing and 3-4  are tinkering  on going bust because of the loans theyv'e taken on . WE won't have a league to play in 21/22 What then ?


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Marinerdeano
February 18, 2021, 8:08pm
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2 clubs hadn't registered their vote yet so that's potentially 9 clubs unable to fulfil their fixtures, afterall had they wanted to continue you'd think they would have voted by now.
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Mikey_345
February 18, 2021, 8:40pm
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Quoted from Marinerdeano
2 clubs hadn't registered their vote yet so that's potentially 9 clubs unable to fulfil their fixtures, afterall had they wanted to continue you'd think they would have voted by now.


Pretty sure we will know in next few days. Clubs will start giving their position/plans. If they all continue we will have to do it ourselves.

Which I would say I still think we will do anyway, so this is academic to us - crazy I know 😂


All Town aren’t we

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pontoonlew
February 18, 2021, 8:46pm
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Quoted from Marinerdeano
2 clubs hadn't registered their vote yet so that's potentially 9 clubs unable to fulfil their fixtures, afterall had they wanted to continue you'd think they would have voted by now.


Think you’ll find those 2 votes were clubs hoping to delay proceedings to get their own way and carry things on.
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Marinerdeano
February 18, 2021, 8:48pm
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Quoted from Mikey_345


Pretty sure we will know in next few days. Clubs will start giving their position/plans. If they all continue we will have to do it ourselves.

Which I would say I still think we will do anyway, so this is academic to us - crazy I know 😂


Love the faith!
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Mikey_345
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Quoted from Marinerdeano


Love the faith!


Town fan blind optimism mate. It’s the hope that kills you! 😂


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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140348
February 18, 2021, 9:02pm
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Latest NL to continue. Promotion and relegation as normal.  North and South leagues null and void. .                                  Check BBC  sport website.  
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Swansea_Mariner
February 18, 2021, 9:13pm
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Looking at what the Kings Lynn owner been saying today I can't see them continuing given the result.
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moosey_club
February 18, 2021, 9:54pm
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If we end up in that sh!t show then its down to our decisions and we will have deserved to be relegated.
Season starts in earnest this Saturday.



2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW
2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
2018/19  LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  
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ginnywings
February 18, 2021, 10:03pm

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Watch us get relegated and be replaced by Hartlepool, then be invaded by the 'Pool trolls once again.  
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Posh Harry
February 18, 2021, 10:13pm
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The most important thing we need to know is will Hagrid be on the beer by the time crowds are allowed back in BP to be able to claim his 2 pints 🙂
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promotion plaice
February 18, 2021, 10:17pm

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Quoted from Posh Harry
The most important thing we need to know is will Hagrid be on the beer by the time crowds are allowed back in BP to be able to claim his 2 pints 🙂

5p a pint, six months out of date     



When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?”
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MarinerDevil
February 18, 2021, 10:22pm
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From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56119952):

"I spoke to someone in the EFL earlier who said promotion and relegation between the two leagues is still expected.

But will Barrow and Grimsby - the current bottom two - feel it is fair to be relegated if the league below has had a season where just over the half the teams completed it?

Thursday's announcement brings an end to one long-running saga. But anyone who thinks it will end the argument is almost certainly mistaken."


At least the rest of the season's going to be exciting.  
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Marinerdeano
February 18, 2021, 10:34pm
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I feel bad for starting this thread but if I hadn't someone else would have. It just feels like clinging on to some kind of hope at the moment. As has been said, a small proportion of the club may deserve to be in a predicament based on poor decision-making but the the fans don't deserve to go through all of this again and I'd personally take any kind of reprieve. The National League have proved that it's not just its lowly nature that makes it so undesirable to be in.
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TownSNAFU5
February 18, 2021, 10:38pm
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I don’t want the rest of the season to be exciting,  I like mid-table boring mediocrity.  
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Hagrid
February 18, 2021, 10:46pm

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Quoted from Posh Harry
The most important thing we need to know is will Hagrid be on the beer by the time crowds are allowed back in BP to be able to claim his 2 pints 🙂


I’m trying to hold off till May, though i came very close to breaking after the stevenage loss. Can get royally drunk and celebrate staying up, or drink to oblivion if we go down
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RonMariner
February 18, 2021, 11:37pm

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I suppose there is another get out of jail card.......someone in L2 could go into agmin and get a points deduction.


Yes, I am THAT desperate.
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Posh Harry
February 18, 2021, 11:43pm
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Quoted from Hagrid


I’m trying to hold off till May, though i came very close to breaking after the stevenage loss. Can get royally drunk and celebrate staying up, or drink to oblivion if we go down


Fair play fella. I struggle to make it from Monday to Friday so that is impressive stuff 👏👏
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moosey_club
February 18, 2021, 11:53pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
Watch us get relegated and be replaced by Hartlepool, then be invaded by the 'Pool trolls once again.  


To be fair....they are MASSIVE....


2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW
2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
2018/19  LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  
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ska face
February 19, 2021, 6:20am

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That season under Jolley where we just stayed up, I wasn’t particularly årsed one way or the other if we went down. And really it was the same this season until we found out the takeover was on - losing didn’t bother me, the thumping at Tranmere was funny more than anything. Wasn’t my club anymore, it was Fenty’s plaything and if he broke it, that’s his problem.

But just as we’re finally free of that albatross, it kills me that his last act is to drag us out of the league AGAIN whilst disappearing off into the sunset with £2.5m of our money. It just feels so unjust, it’s infuriating.
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aldi_01
February 19, 2021, 7:34am

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Quoted from ska face
That season under Jolley where we just stayed up, I wasn’t particularly årsed one way or the other if we went down. And really it was the same this season until we found out the takeover was on - losing didn’t bother me, the thumping at Tranmere was funny more than anything. Wasn’t my club anymore, it was Fenty’s plaything and if he broke it, that’s his problem.

But just as we’re finally free of that albatross, it kills me that his last act is to drag us out of the league AGAIN whilst disappearing off into the sunset with £2.5m of our money. It just feels so unjust, it’s infuriating.


But but but he’s a supporter like the rest of us, he’s done a good job and everything. There’s even people that support him and they’re all waiting in the woodwork to come out and pipe him off one more time...his mate Phil said so...

Until the takeover announcement and PH coming back in I’d never never felt so disconnected from the club and the team. I get that Covid and being unable to attend caused some of that but I honestly looked at the players and the flipping idiot manager and it felt like I was watching some attempt at football and not my/our beloved GTFC.

Fenty will swan off with his cash like nothings ever gone wrong and holloway will continue to pedal nonsense; Day, Marley et al will probably just disappear in to the background and return to being no marks. Meanwhile, we’ll probably descend in to the footballing abyss once more and probably take another 5/6 years to escape...

I think we all predicted the vote would go this way, I guess now we’ll see how competitive the league remains and so forth. An Aldershot supporting mate reckons it could descend in to farce and thinks you’ll see a few more clubs furloughing players and the like.


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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pontoonlew
February 19, 2021, 7:38am
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Quoted from RonMariner
I suppose there is another get out of jail card.......someone in L2 could go into agmin and get a points deduction.


Yes, I am THAT desperate.


Let’s face it, the majority of The Fishy lapped up our bizarre pre season in the summer because they thought that exact scenario was going to happen.
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aldi_01
February 19, 2021, 7:43am

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Quoted from pontoonlew


Let’s face it, the majority of The Fishy lapped up our bizarre pre season in the summer because they thought that exact scenario was going to happen.


The club did. I’m convinced we planned for the season to be null and void before Christmas. Covid contracts, people still furloughed, unheard of Sunday league players, Holloway lost whatever marbles he had left, the club almost lauding it up because of said Covid contracts...now look. flipping morons.

Everyone predicted Southend and their financial woes would be gone by now, it would appear not. Likelihood is that any club feeling the financial strain would probably make it through this season...next year is where it would hit them.

Never in my life as a town fan did I expect us to be in a situation where we were begging for other clubs to go under or for a league to curtail early, to be sweating over our place in the league and so forth. Once I can go with, it shouldn’t happen but we know it can, but this is the fourth time now...all under the stewardship of one man...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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Davec
February 19, 2021, 8:12am
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Quoted from aldi_01


The club did. I’m convinced we planned for the season to be null and void before Christmas. Covid contracts, people still furloughed, unheard of Sunday league players, Holloway lost whatever marbles he had left, the club almost lauding it up because of said Covid contracts...now look. flipping morons.

Everyone predicted Southend and their financial woes would be gone by now, it would appear not. Likelihood is that any club feeling the financial strain would probably make it through this season...next year is where it would hit them.

Never in my life as a town fan did I expect us to be in a situation where we were begging for other clubs to go under or for a league to curtail early, to be sweating over our place in the league and so forth. Once I can go with, it shouldn’t happen but we know it can, but this is the fourth time now...all under the stewardship of one man...


Some people on the fishy did also.
I remember when Phillip Day did that interview about Charles Vernam leaving for free when we failed to activate the extension and some posters on this forum was saying how it was the right decision and the club has done the right thing.

I remember when the Covid clauses cost us players and some posters on this forum were again saying how Covid clauses is a great idea as it stops us going bust.

I remember when it was clear signings were being done on the cheap some posters on this forum were saying this was the right way to go assembling a cheap squad as the season will be null and void or 5 or 6 clubs atleast will go bust gaurenteeing our survival and we would be financially be in a better position next season to sign players.

The same posters who were praising these decisions are now criticising the club for these decisions.

Threads can easily be located for reference if anybody wants to argue against this.

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louth_in_the_south
February 19, 2021, 8:17am

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Well my bet went well as per my usual betting failures.
Hagrid , I look forward to to meeting you at BP next season whether we’re playing Boreham or Bradford 😂😂


Lower F5
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pontoonlew
February 19, 2021, 8:19am
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Quoted from Davec


Some people on the fishy did also.
I remember when Phillip Day did that interview about Charles Vernam leaving for free when we failed to activate the extension and some posters on this forum was saying how it was the right decision and the club has done the right thing.

I remember when the Covid clauses cost us players and some posters on this forum were again saying how Covid clauses is a great idea as it stops us going bust.

I remember when it was clear signings were being done on the cheap some posters on this forum were saying this was the right way to go assembling a cheap squad as the season will be null and void or 5 or 6 clubs atleast will go bust gaurenteeing our survival and we would be financially be in a better position next season to sign players.

The same posters who were praising these decisions are now criticising the club for these decisions.

Threads can easily be located for reference if anybody wants to argue against this.



Spot on.

The board spectacularly copulated up in the summer but let’s not pretend they were anything other than backed by the fans for doing so. It’s alright saying now in hindsight that it was wrong, I wish the voices had been that loud in the summer!
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ginnywings
February 19, 2021, 8:54am

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Quoted from pontoonlew


Spot on.

The board spectacularly copulated up in the summer but let’s not pretend they were anything other than backed by the fans for doing so. It’s alright saying now in hindsight that it was wrong, I wish the voices had been that loud in the summer!


Wouldn't have mattered what the fans felt or said. We are the best run club ever, so the cabal would just do what they were going to do, because they are always right.
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Swansea_Mariner
February 19, 2021, 9:01am
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Clap trap I can't recall a majority of posts on here supporting the stance on Vernams contract, as I recall people were saying it was another Patterson, Buutterfield type intercourse up
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ska face
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Clap trap I can't recall a majority of posts on here supporting the stance on Vernams contract, as I recall people were saying it was another Patterson, Buutterfield type intercourse up


Yep, these two living in an alternative universe. The lack of friendlies and Covid clauses were well picked up at the time, especially after Theo Robinson turned us down, and I seem to remember the general consensus was people were fine with Vernam leaving but not once it emerged it was down to the contracts rather than footballing reasons.

Regardless, like has been mentioned before, means fck all what people on here thought at the time or even today for that matter. Fenty has fcked us and it’s been decades in the making.
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pontoonlew
February 19, 2021, 9:57am
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[url]https://forum.thefishy.co.uk/Blah.pl?m-1593878334/s-0/[/url]

You only need to look at the red crosses on every post from fans ringing the alarm bells loud and clear to understand our fans attitude to the excrement running of our club.

As I've said previously, once the fans properly stood up against the board they copulated off. However for years now, fans have praised obviously stupid decisions and shot down those who even suggested it might be a bad idea.

There's absolutely no wonder we got served up shite, it's what the majority asked for.
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Fillipe Noche
February 19, 2021, 10:50am
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A genuine question

The National League has acted as a self appointed arbitrator, by deciding that there will be no relegation from the NL to NLN NLS. They have essentially made the decision to break the football relegation and promotion pyramid.

Should they be allowed to do this?

Why allow them to be judge and jurors over this decision?

I say cut them off for the time being until such a time that it is fit to reconnect again
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Madeleymariner
February 19, 2021, 10:51am

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Gosh, how wrong we were.  

"Footballers will be available that would normally be out of our reach so if Vernam does go I'm sure Ollie will find a replacement just as good if not better."

PS not my post  
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BobbyCummingsTackle
February 19, 2021, 11:02am
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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
A genuine question

The National League has acted as a self appointed arbitrator, by deciding that there will be no relegation from the NL to NLN NLS. They have essentially made the decision to break the football relegation and promotion pyramid.

Should they be allowed to do this?

Why allow them to be judge and jurors over this decision?

I say cut them off for the time being until such a time that it is fit to reconnect again


I don't want to be a c*ck here but the NL is the arbiter of what happens in the league. There is no higher power. The FA controls the laws of the game but a league can do whatever it wants as long as it's within the laws of the game, promotion and relegation are just how the league system happens to run through custom and practice.


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promotion plaice
February 19, 2021, 11:21am

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Quoted from Madeleymariner
Gosh, how wrong we were.  

"Footballers will be available that would normally be out of our reach so if Vernam does go I'm sure Ollie will find a replacement just as good if not better."

PS not my post  

It was me that posted that  

Like many others on here at the time I got sucked in with all the bullshit, phone melting and all that  



When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?”
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TownSNAFU5
February 19, 2021, 11:26am
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What about “integrity” though”?
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aldi_01
February 19, 2021, 11:27am

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Quoted from Fillipe Noche
A genuine question

The National League has acted as a self appointed arbitrator, by deciding that there will be no relegation from the NL to NLN NLS. They have essentially made the decision to break the football relegation and promotion pyramid.

Should they be allowed to do this?

Why allow them to be judge and jurors over this decision?

I say cut them off for the time being until such a time that it is fit to reconnect again


Leagues are indeed allowed to do this, at every level of the game...have been able to for a while...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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RichMariner
February 19, 2021, 11:39am
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I imagine those clubs who have been forced to continue will be doing their sums and making some big decisions over the next day or two.

The NL are basically telling them to complete the season and if they don't have the finances to do it then apply for a loan, to be repaid over the next decade, thus weakening their budgets for each of the next 10 seasons as they attempt to pay it off.

Call me old fashioned but this just doesn't seem a very nice thing to do. Surely the NL has a duty to look after its member clubs, not drive them into debt?

They might complete this season but they might also drive a few clubs into insolvency along the way. That can't be right.

Maybe these clubs will refuse the loan and play kids — it's looking like the only viable option. This is meant to be an 'elite' division.

It's an absolute joke of a division. Yes, you're damn right I wouldn't care this much if we weren't on the precipice. But we are, so I care. If that makes me a bad person then so be it. But I'm not hoping for a club to go to the wall just so it grants us a reprieve; I'm hoping the opposite.

Null and voiding the NL season will protect clubs and stop them spending/borrowing money they don't have. It hasn't happened, but I wonder how those who 'lost' the vote are going to play things now.


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Heisenberg
February 19, 2021, 11:46am
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Clap trap I can't recall a majority of posts on here supporting the stance on Vernams contract, as I recall people were saying it was another Patterson, Buutterfield type intercourse up


Nobody was saying it was a good move, I agree. It was madness and the majority were furious about it, me included. And there was Holloway saying “the EFL advised us to not renew his contract” - seriously, who needed their advice on that?!! They’re like a bunch of kids needing to be told what to do. It was obvious - give your best player a good contract, and at the very least, activate the option clause to ensure he doesn’t go for free. Amateur hour at its absolute worst.

And as for having one friendly, against CLEETHORPES, Christ almighty.
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DB
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Quoted from RichMariner
I imagine those clubs who have been forced to continue will be doing their sums and making some big decisions over the next day or two.

The NL are basically telling them to complete the season and if they don't have the finances to do it then apply for a loan, to be repaid over the next decade, thus weakening their budgets for each of the next 10 seasons as they attempt to pay it off.

Call me old fashioned but this just doesn't seem a very nice thing to do. Surely the NL has a duty to look after its member clubs, not drive them into debt?

They might complete this season but they might also drive a few clubs into insolvency along the way. That can't be right.

Maybe these clubs will refuse the loan and play kids — it's looking like the only viable option. This is meant to be an 'elite' division.

It's an absolute joke of a division. Yes, you're damn right I wouldn't care this much if we weren't on the precipice. But we are, so I care. If that makes me a bad person then so be it. But I'm not hoping for a club to go to the wall just so it grants us a reprieve; I'm hoping the opposite.

Null and voiding the NL season will protect clubs and stop them spending/borrowing money they don't have. It hasn't happened, but I wonder how those who 'lost' the vote are going to play things now.


Your right what you say. I believe that 7 clubs voted not to continue so it will be interesting what they will they will do. If they do a Dover then the league will be untenable. If they field weakened teams then it can be argued that they are not complying with the spirit of the competition and are competing in name only. If they have no money and will not take the loans the options for them are decreasing all the time.

As many have posted it's a mess.


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GrimRob
February 19, 2021, 12:59pm

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It should be renamed to the Notional League


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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BobbyCummingsTackle
February 19, 2021, 2:07pm
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
What about “integrity” though”?


We are talking about football, integrity is in very short supply.


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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RonMariner
February 19, 2021, 3:55pm

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Might help the players focus. While cancellation of the NL looked possible, even probable,  it may have been tempting to think we would be ok regardless of what we did on the pitch anyway.

Now we know the cavalry is almost certainly not coming to our rescue it is all down to us.      
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Mikey_345
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Kings Lynn releasing a statement today that they can fulfil their next two games but cannot commit to carrying on past 27th Feb at this stage.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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RonMariner
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Quoted from Mikey_345
Kings Lynn releasing a statement today that they can fulfil their next two games but cannot commit to carrying on past 27th Feb at this stage.


If KL and Dover chuck the towel in results from something like 40 games will have to be voided.

If another couple of clubs follow suit then it really does start to look chaotic.
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DB
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Quoted from RonMariner


If KL and Dover chuck the towel in results from something like 40 games will have to be voided.

If another couple of clubs follow suit then it really does start to look chaotic.


It's already chaotic , the NL board just won't admit it. Heads in sand hope the situation will go away.


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louth_in_the_south
February 19, 2021, 4:43pm

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It’ll start to drastically change the table if results are wiped out left right and centre.


Lower F5
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aldi_01
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Quoted from Mikey_345
Kings Lynn releasing a statement today that they can fulfil their next two games but cannot commit to carrying on past 27th Feb at this stage.


Interesting that the teams finding it difficult are teams that once upon time threw cash at things, Kings Lynn and Dover were two that instantly come to mind.

I know they’re all struggling but those two have made it clear they’re essentially unable to finish the season when not so long ago both were paying wages above what plenty of league 2 clubs were.

Will this make the league a farce? I guess so, I’m sure the excrement weather hasn’t helped, let alone Covid. I notice tomorrow the only games off are Macclesfield (obvs) and Dover/Kings Lynn.

I know there are teams well behind and some have played bang on the money, it just seems a mess and in truth whatever the outcome it was never going to please all of the people.

It’s also extremely sad and a pretty big example of how excrement we are and what has happened to us...again, to be wishing that a league be cancelled in order to stay up...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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GrimRob
February 19, 2021, 5:25pm

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The best way out is to Merge League 2 and Step 1 into League 2 North and South with National League North and South feeding into them. Step 2 would become Step 1 so everyone in non-league would rise a Step. Almost everyone would have reduced costs and attendances when they get back should be up.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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February 19, 2021, 5:38pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
The best way out is to Merge League 2 and Step 1 into League 2 North and South with National League North and South feeding into them. Step 2 would become Step 1 so everyone in non-league would rise a Step. Almost everyone would have reduced costs and attendances when they get back should be up.


The best thing to do would be to not try to support professional football in about 140 towns where about 80 of those towns patently can't support a full time professional football club.

I'm editing my own post here - 80 may be a wildly optimistic estimate.


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GollyGTFC
February 19, 2021, 5:41pm

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Quoted from GrimRob
The best way out is to Merge League 2 and Step 1 into League 2 North and South with National League North and South feeding into them. Step 2 would become Step 1 so everyone in non-league would rise a Step. Almost everyone would have reduced costs and attendances when they get back should be up.


Won’t happen. Where is the extra cash for 24 more L2 clubs going to come from?

L2 clubs get around £1m from the EFL TV deal & PL Solidarity payments. NL clubs gets around £10k a piece from their TV deal with BT.

Are 24 L2 clubs going to voluntarily half their TV & SP money to admit 24 more clubs?

No chance.
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Swansea_Mariner
February 19, 2021, 5:44pm
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Looks like Dover are sticking to their guns, and with the Kings Lynn statement
its going to be an interesting couple of weeks.
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Mikey_345
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As well as the likes of Dover and KL (potentially) not completing you also have clubs that will probably furlough higher earners and play a blend of non contract/kids. Chesterfield already done this with a few in January.

That in my opinion is the likeliest result that will lead to serious questions been asked.

Say your 18th and have voted to stop. Are you seriously going to risk your clubs future. Many I fear won’t and the league will gradually lose what little integrity it has left.


All Town aren’t we

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IlkleyMariner
February 19, 2021, 8:09pm
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Quoted from GollyGTFC


Won’t happen. Where is the extra cash for 24 more L2 clubs going to come from?

L2 clubs get around £1m from the EFL TV deal & PL Solidarity payments. NL clubs gets around £10k a piece from their TV deal with BT.

Are 24 L2 clubs going to voluntarily half their TV & SP money to admit 24 more clubs?

No chance.


No

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The Yard Dog
February 19, 2021, 9:52pm
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Just looked at the National League fixtures list, last scheduled weekend fixtures 29th May, then the play-offs on top, well into June.
Most teams not halfway through the season.
With more fixtures likely to be cancelled.
Its going to be a challenge completing the season.
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TownSNAFU5
February 19, 2021, 10:12pm
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The Dover Chairman called the National League a “shambles” today.  He did correct this statement saying that they are “a complete shambles”.

He was also annoyed that they had done nothing for the 7 clubs that are broke.

His comments were given prominence by BBC Sport.
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GollyGTFC
February 19, 2021, 10:16pm

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Quoted from TownSNAFU5
The Dover Chairman called the National League a “shambles” today.  He did correct this statement saying that they are “a complete shambles”.

He was also annoyed that they had done nothing for the 7 clubs that are broke.

His comments were given prominence by BBC Sport.


There are more than 7 clubs broke.
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marinerdazza
February 20, 2021, 8:36am
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And as if by magic. The money appeared.


Edit: a govt announcement this morning, and it’s loans again??!!!
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Mikey_345
February 20, 2021, 9:36am
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Quoted from marinerdazza
And as if by magic. The money appeared.


Edit: a govt announcement this morning, and it’s loans again??!!!


Loans and only for 19 of the teams in both steps. Potentially to last until August or when fans get in? Don’t think this actually changes anything.

The clubs that don’t want to continue also didn’t want to saddle their clubs with debt.


All Town aren’t we

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The Yard Dog
February 20, 2021, 5:28pm
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With no promtotion from the National league North & South and the National League is carrying on with the season, what happens to Dover, who have stated that they will not fulfil their league campaign and King's Lynn not sure after the next two games.
Other clubs may follow, how can it be called a league competition.
It will be interesting to see how the National League deal with the up and coming problems.
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DB
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It's just a matter of time before the other 7 clubs join Dover. No chairman is going to bankrupt his club, unfortunately the NL board are blind to their actions.


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IlkleyMariner
February 20, 2021, 6:20pm
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Quoted from The Yard Dog
With no promtotion from the National league North & South and the National League is carrying on with the season, what happens to Dover, who have stated that they will not fulfil their league campaign and King's Lynn not sure after the next two games.
Other clubs may follow, how can it be called a league competition.
It will be interesting to see how the National League deal with the up and coming problems.


National league are one short of the 24 teams they want.
It will be easy to arrange a playoff of north and south and promote at least one team, more if teams like Dover refuse to play.

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ginnywings
February 20, 2021, 6:22pm

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Quoted from DB
It's just a matter of time before the other 7 clubs join Dover. No chairman is going to bankrupt his club, unfortunately the NL board are blind to their actions.


Or they will fill their squads with loan signings, youth players and some who will play for expenses only.

Will be some interesting results.
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DB
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner


National league are one short of the 24 teams they want.
It will be easy to arrange a playoff of north and south and promote at least one team, more if teams like Dover refuse to play.



Who and how would the teams be chosen for a play off? Too many variables to ponder.


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IlkleyMariner
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The league management have from now till May to work out a way forward
Surely any idiot could do that.

Oh they are not just any idiot, they are a very special group of idiots as they have shown.
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DB
February 20, 2021, 7:08pm
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Quoted from IlkleyMariner
The league management have from now till May to work out a way forward
Surely any idiot could do that.

Oh they are not just any idiot, they are a very special group of idiots as they have shown.


The saying p!ss up in brewery comes to mind !


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louth_in_the_south
February 20, 2021, 11:07pm

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So ironic given their stance in previous seasons to clubs being solvent


Lower F5
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supertown
February 20, 2021, 11:12pm
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If you are losing money week in week out and there is no relegation, where is the incentive to play on .
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forza ivano
February 22, 2021, 10:40pm

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https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/post/an-update-from-our-chairman
just to show what a difficult dilemma is facing many National League clubs
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BlackandWhiteBarmy2
February 22, 2021, 11:09pm
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Between a rock and a hard place, with no guidance at present.


And when you fall back into the mud it hurts a lot.
No! None of it was true, none of those things we thought we could see existed at all.
All that was really there was still more misery

Emile Zola
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Mikey_345
February 23, 2021, 7:17am
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https://www.wealdstone-fc.com/post/an-update-from-our-chairman

Another NL club thinking of furloughing or closing shop. Interesting they say a number of clubs are considering the same.


All Town aren’t we

@GTFCLondon

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DB
February 23, 2021, 4:02pm
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https://nonleaguedaily.com/clubs-are-now-in-the-worst-of-all-worlds-solihull-moors-chairman-eales/

The chairman of Solihull Moors is quoted as saying :-

These are undoubtedly complex issues to resolve but I would like to place on the record this club’s thanks to the board of the National League in trying to look after the interests of the whole league and to finding an equitable solution

“Dover have already indicated that they will not complete the season without further financial support, and it is likely other clubs will follow. Whilst I have sympathy for this position, I do not think any club can unilaterally decide not to fulfil fixtures, and accordingly, I think there have to be proportionate penalties for such clubs.

“Otherwise, they are gaining a financial advantage in a season where there is no longer relegation, and they are also negatively impacting the integrity of the competition for the remaining clubs.”

I have read such selfishness from a chairman about the league his club is playing in. His obviously thinking about promotion and doesn't give dam about clubs with no money.

The integrity of the NL disappeared weeks ago, now confirmed by no relegation. So what penalties will he want for Dover. Can't fine them as they have no money, can't deduct points as no relegation.

With a chairman like him their is no wonder that league is a total mess.

What financial advantage does a club with zero bank balance have. The next step is to go bust.


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RonMariner
February 23, 2021, 5:33pm

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This issue is far from over. I am finding it harder and harder to see this division continuing to the end of the season.
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bawarmy
February 23, 2021, 5:47pm
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Didn’t all league 2 clubs vote on relegation from the league last year? I think I read that 20 of the 24 voted no relegation. Ironically honest John and Phil voted to have relegation as it wasn’t going to be us. Could come and bite them on their backsides this year if they have another vote.

Edit
Found it
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/grimsby-town-macclesfield-stevenage-relegation-4142574
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DB
February 23, 2021, 5:59pm
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Quoted from RonMariner
This issue is far from over. I am finding it harder and harder to see this division continuing to the end of the season.


I agree. All I can see now that as their is no relegation that all clubs with money problems will play until the cash runs out, or before if they've got sense and then shut shop till next season. Eventually the league will have to end this season null and void. The Board of the NL probably don't want to take blame until its fait accompli, and then say what could we do. Very weak management.


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arryarryarry
February 24, 2021, 4:51am
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Quoted from DB
https://nonleaguedaily.com/clubs-are-now-in-the-worst-of-all-worlds-solihull-moors-chairman-eales/

The chairman of Solihull Moors is quoted as saying :-

These are undoubtedly complex issues to resolve but I would like to place on the record this club’s thanks to the board of the National League in trying to look after the interests of the whole league and to finding an equitable solution

“Dover have already indicated that they will not complete the season without further financial support, and it is likely other clubs will follow. Whilst I have sympathy for this position, I do not think any club can unilaterally decide not to fulfil fixtures, and accordingly, I think there have to be proportionate penalties for such clubs.

“Otherwise, they are gaining a financial advantage in a season where there is no longer relegation, and they are also negatively impacting the integrity of the competition for the remaining clubs.”

I have read such selfishness from a chairman about the league his club is playing in. His obviously thinking about promotion and doesn't give dam about clubs with no money.

The integrity of the NL disappeared weeks ago, now confirmed by no relegation. So what penalties will he want for Dover. Can't fine them as they have no money, can't deduct points as no relegation.

With a chairman like him their is no wonder that league is a total mess.

What financial advantage does a club with zero bank balance have. The next step is to go bust.


The NL could sanction a points deduction for next season.
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aldi_01
February 24, 2021, 6:03am

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You’d imagine that Dover, and anyone else that ends up not fulfilling fixtures will end up with points deductions starting from next season, which will probably see the sides currently at the bottom this year (who will avoid relegation) simply being the same next season...delaying the inevitable I guess.

It’s becoming a real mess and I’m not sure anyone team or person/league is to blame. The conference has always been a bit of a basket case and makes some bizarre decisions. I guess, as a football fan, whilst we’ve looked worse than conference and our club has been operating well below conference, we’re not down there. The thought of Day/Fenty being involved in this is terrifying.


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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mike_d
February 24, 2021, 12:03pm
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I am uncertain of their ability to furlough and then play new players - the intention of furloughing is to keep staff employed when there's no work for them. I can't furlough members of my staff and use someone else to do their work. Surely it can be argued by the HMRC that replacing players who could play is not in the legalities of furloughing...
Could any employment experts/ HMRC representatives care to clarify?


To quote - Insanely amazing or amazingly insane. Life as a Town Fan.
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pen penfras
February 24, 2021, 12:21pm

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Quoted from mike_d
I am uncertain of their ability to furlough and then play new players - the intention of furloughing is to keep staff employed when there's no work for them. I can't furlough members of my staff and use someone else to do their work. Surely it can be argued by the HMRC that replacing players who could play is not in the legalities of furloughing...
Could any employment experts/ HMRC representatives care to clarify?


Barrow have done this. And with our ridiculous squad, I'm surprised we haven't. Clubs in the NLS did this too.
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DB
February 24, 2021, 2:23pm
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I think to an extent the NL has a big problem caused by covid. Some teams have been able to play consecutive matches and get a run going. Others have won a game and then hit by covid, then their next opponents have covid. This results in stop start on the pitch and destroys any momentum and rhythm.

Some teams have benefited by postponements by having injured players return to the team, who would have been laid off foe a few matches. I cannot see any justifiable argument for deducting points from teams for next season because they have run out money.

The whole covid thing with the NL is an utter and total mess. It has been mismanaged and clubs that were solvent have been put in precarious positions by an inept board.  The only solution to me is to make it null and void. I do feel for the Torquay's etc. but you have to look at the full picture and not the 'elite' few.


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Swansea_Mariner
February 24, 2021, 6:08pm
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You'd think those seven clubs would be doing some back channeling on whether to stop playing as the options to me seem to be:

  • Spend circa half a million pounds for no reason;
  • Take some kind of points deduction/much smaller than half a million fine for next season.

If you've got a third of the division starting off on minus points I would have thought that would be much more favorable to chucking half a million down the drain
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DB
February 24, 2021, 7:14pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
You'd think those seven clubs would be doing some back channeling on whether to stop playing as the options to me seem to be:

  • Spend circa half a million pounds for no reason;
  • Take some kind of points deduction/much smaller than half a million fine for next season.

If you've got a third of the division starting off on minus points I would have thought that would be much more favorable to chucking half a million down the drain


Can't really see why they should get any points deduction for doing what the league rules tell to do, stay solvent!


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KingstonMariner
February 24, 2021, 8:50pm
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Quoted from DB


Can't really see why they should get any points deduction for doing what the league rules tell to do, stay solvent!


Rules are stay solvent AND fulfill your fixtures.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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DB
February 24, 2021, 9:06pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Rules are stay solvent AND fulfill your fixtures.


But you one to do the other


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KingstonMariner
February 24, 2021, 11:31pm
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Quoted from DB


But you one to do the other


No. The rules are you have to do both. Not easy obviously. But the rules are not mutually exclusive.

The big question is will the NL enforce both. I doubt they will. Micawberism rules ok in football.


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WOZOFGRIMSBY
February 25, 2021, 2:23pm

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Sounds a bit of a ridiculous situation. And why weren’t actions put in place at the start of the season, by both the NL and the EFL with regards to what would happen if you know, anything crazy like a second wave hit the country. This cannot be left at the doors of the clubs and the league’s executives not make the decision.

If it was at the best interest of the clubs involved, a decision should’ve been made when the second lockdown went into full affect


He’s one of our loans
He’s one of our loans
Harvey Cartwright
He’s one of our loans
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DB
February 25, 2021, 3:37pm
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Yeovil have are/have run out of money :-

https://nonleaguedaily.com/yeovil-will-not-be-able-to-complete-this-season-without-loan/

Looks like they will take a loan but it's not 100%. They could stop playing after 1st March.


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louth_in_the_south
February 25, 2021, 9:35pm

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Maybe all the clubs who voted to continue could give them a grant


Lower F5
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aldi_01
February 26, 2021, 6:25am

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Given that 22bn was spent on a system that didn’t work and multi multi million pound deals were given to mates of ministers, surely someone on the NL executive committee has a government minister friend that could just slip them enough cash to hand out to the clubs that need it...no strings attached?

In all seriousness it just seems a mess. You can’t criticise clubs for voting to play on but you can also sympathise with clubs in a mess, the whole thing has swiftly turned in to farce and doesn’t seem to in anyway able to improve...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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DB
February 26, 2021, 7:00am
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Quoted from louth_in_the_south
Maybe all the clubs who voted to continue could give them a grant


I don't think so. Sharks don't give up their food


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WOZOFGRIMSBY
February 26, 2021, 10:40am

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Quoted from aldi_01
Given that 22bn was spent on a system that didn’t work and multi multi million pound deals were given to mates of ministers, surely someone on the NL executive committee has a government minister friend that could just slip them enough cash to hand out to the clubs that need it...no strings attached?

In all seriousness it just seems a mess. You can’t criticise clubs for voting to play on but you can also sympathise with clubs in a mess, the whole thing has swiftly turned in to farce and doesn’t seem to in anyway able to improve...


Let’s hope not !!

The last thing we want is a bail out. The only way we can guarantee that we are not affected by the NL is by getting the points required on the pitch.

If we start looking over our shoulders then it takes the focus off what’s in front



He’s one of our loans
He’s one of our loans
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He’s one of our loans
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arryarryarry
February 26, 2021, 2:17pm
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89 pages and counting, I wonder how many other EFL clubs are worrying about the National League and how many on here are actually that concerned about the welfare of National League clubs or is it just a case of hoping it all goes mammaries up so that we are safe from relegation?
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DB
February 26, 2021, 3:25pm
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Quoted from arryarryarry
89 pages and counting, I wonder how many other EFL clubs are worrying about the National League and how many on here are actually that concerned about the welfare of National League clubs or is it just a case of hoping it all goes mammaries up so that we are safe from relegation?


Hit the nail on the head  arry for plan B. Plan A is get enough points to make 22nd place or higher


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Madeleymariner
February 26, 2021, 10:19pm

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I'm all for it going mammarys up if it keeps us in the league. The only team that matters to me are GTFC.
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DB
February 27, 2021, 6:43pm
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After todays Harrogate loss I was trying to find something positive. It appears Yeovil have run out of money and need a loan. Don't like the idea and I would much prefer football to dictate leagues but a null and void NL would be acceptable.

https://nonleaguedaily.com/yeovil-will-not-be-able-to-complete-this-season-without-loan/


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RonMariner
February 28, 2021, 10:43am

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We just are not delivering on the pitch.

Voiding the NL is now, I think, our best hope of avoiding the drop.

Sad but true.
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Swansea_Mariner
February 28, 2021, 1:05pm
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[url]https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/kings-lynn-town-v-weymouth-7795062[/url]

On the brink furloughing several players and those who don't qualify asked to take pay cuts. Cant see that being acceptable to the PFA
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DB
February 28, 2021, 1:10pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
[url]https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/kings-lynn-town-v-weymouth-7795062[/url]

On the brink furloughing several players and those who don't qualify asked to take pay cuts. Cant see that being acceptable to the PFA


Somebody gave Kings Lynn a few grand

https://nonleaguedaily.com/kings-lynn-town-receive-sizeable-four-figure-donation/

However I seem to recall their chairman saying they needed £50K to keep going.


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Yoda
February 28, 2021, 4:33pm
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The national league is a joke league
the money in that league will be minimal next season.
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DB
March 1, 2021, 4:56pm
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Withnail
March 2, 2021, 9:48pm
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Of course the league will finish.

Forget about this imagined get out jail card as it ain't gonna happen.
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DB
March 2, 2021, 9:52pm
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Quoted from Withnail
Of course the league will finish.

Forget about this imagined get out jail card as it ain't gonna happen.


When you have watched the Crawley, Harrogate and tonight's game then clutching at straws is all we have at the moment. Still pigs might fly.


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Vance Warner
March 6, 2021, 8:57am
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The plot thickens

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....P=Share_iOSApp_Other

Can’t see this happening but if it did we could be playing in a 25 team league next season. Dover might be getting a bit edgy at this news.





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KingstonMariner
March 6, 2021, 9:14am
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Agree with Withnail. Forget this as a hope of saving our skins.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Vance Warner
March 6, 2021, 9:16am
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Not got any hope of us staying up this way but still interested to see how it plays out especially if we are back there next season
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dapperz fun pub
March 6, 2021, 9:22am
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I hoped this was a get out of jail card ..it isn’t . We need to win a few games starting today
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Yup even Kings Lynn are playing on now with some kind of rotational furlough and free agents playing for free, bizarre but its being allowed apparently.
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Madeleymariner
March 6, 2021, 10:16am

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Lets hope every one of them are on their knees by the start of next season, it would be wonderful to be one of the bigger spenders in that league
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GollyGTFC
March 6, 2021, 10:29am

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Quoted from Vance Warner
The plot thickens

https://www.theguardian.com/fo.....P=Share_iOSApp_Other

Can’t see this happening but if it did we could be playing in a 25 team league next season. Dover might be getting a bit edgy at this news.


A 25 team division is a ridiculous idea. They would have to go from 46 fixture dates to 50 fixture dates to accommodate 48 league matches & 2 bye weeks. That would be 4 midweek slots normally used for the huge amount of rearranged matches gone from the calendar and the usual fixture pile-up at the end of the season would be even more chaotic than normal.

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