Brexit deal agreed

Quoted from Chrisblor

Nah i'm absolutely sick to death of older, generally financially comfortable Brexit voters, who've benefitted significantly from EU membership throughout their adult lives, waving away tangible examples of why Brexit isn't good actually, and being completely unable to explain what these future benefits are supposed to be and how they'll be realised. The harsh economic reality of global free trade means the bigger side always wins in trade negotiations. We've crippled our economy, and many of our rights (i'd have been nice to have the option to move to Europe if I wanted to - you've copulated that for us now), for what? A low odds punt on things being 'better' in some unspecified way a couple of years down the line based on a load of lies spun by some rich duplicitous posh illegitimates who've shorted the excrement out of the British economy and spent the last 4 years moving all their money and business operations outside of the UK. Why should I be pleasant to people who are still trying to tell me this is a good thing?

If you read my post again I did  not say you were wrong   what I did say was you were unpleasant calling an elderly person a old illegitimate.

Well Ska from your comments you'll have a lot to do in life to earn some respect. Codcheeeky they should have prepared for the very worst and then they would have been ready.

You should be pleasant Chrisblor because we older generation have been through the last near 50 years realising that the politicians of our youth conned us into voting for the EU. We voted for a trading agreement , not a Lisbon or Maastricht treaty or any other treaty. We did not vote for a European parliament, European Commissioners or to hand over our fishing rights so the European fishermen could dredge our waters dry of fish and take away any chance of a decent trawler fleet for Grimsby.
I could go on and on about what we lost.

The old saying is that you do not know what you've got until you've lost it. That is why you should respect the older people of which all of you will be one day. Been there done it got the medal and regretted. Experience is king, opinions and thoughts mean nothing.

As for financially better of why didn't our so called European friends make our pensions like those of Germany etc.  

I'm still waiting for the run down of just how we are going to benefit from leaving the world's largest, wealthiest and most successful trading bloc, a move which puts up enormous barriers to trading with our nearest neighbours. Some of which have been mentioned in this thread.

I get the 'sovereignty' argument about having full self-determination within the bounds of our political system. I don't think it held much more water than a sieve as we did elect the MEPs who effectively chose the commission members, but I suppose that was arguable to some extent. The funny thing, of course, was that our MEPs were elected using PR so it was actually much more representative of the votes cast than our own FPTP parliamentary system where most votes count for absolutely nothing!

Ultimately, the economic arguments for leaving the EU seem to depend on a magic asterisk which assumes that things will now get better for some unspecified reason. It's what the incompetents currently in government are attempting to promote every time they open their mouths with pathetic boosterism, despite the ongoing shitshow with the pandemic.

Quoted from DB

As for financially better of why didn't our so called European friends make our pensions like those of Germany etc.  

You do realise that the EU doesn't pay British (or German) pensions, right? You're surely just trolling for a response?

The UK government of the day decides how high pensions are (or aren't) and the way pensions are calculated is dependent of the system used in each country. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU at all. How bizarre that someone should try to use it as a benefit of Brexit/attack on the EU.  

Quoted from Maringer

You do realise that the EU doesn't pay British (or German) pensions, right? You're surely just trolling for a response?

The UK government of the day decides how high pensions are (or aren't) and the way pensions are calculated is dependent of the system used in each country. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU at all. How bizarre that someone should try to use it as a benefit of Brexit/attack on the EU.  

This is the main problem in a packet of post nuptial problems.

Most of the problems in the UK in the past 48 years have not been caused by the EU.

They have not been caused by Turks queuing up to smash up the white cliffs of Dover.

They haven’t even been caused by Mrs Syed at number 34, who forgot to take her bins out on 27 July - as noted by Neighbourhood Watch, and forever she shallt be admonished.

It is you, me and the inept prime ministers we keep electing (plus the fact that over the past 150 years we have been on a downward spiral, economically, culturally and morally).

The EU had / has nothing to do with it.

Our only hope is luck, Paul Hurst and the possibility that Poojah runs for PM in 2024

Quoted from Maringer

You do realise that the EU doesn't pay British (or German) pensions, right? You're surely just trolling for a response?

The UK government of the day decides how high pensions are (or aren't) and the way pensions are calculated is dependent of the system used in each country. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU at all. How bizarre that someone should try to use it as a benefit of Brexit/attack on the EU.  

I was responding to Ska "i'm absolutely sick to death of older, generally financially comfortable Brexit voters, who've benefitted significantly from EU membership". to make the point that British pensioners have not benefited from the EU as he states. You have taken my comments out the context of my reply. Not trollig for any response, just making a valid point.

Quoted from DB

I was responding to Ska "i'm absolutely sick to death of older, generally financially comfortable Brexit voters, who've benefitted significantly from EU membership". to make the point that British pensioners have not benefited from the EU as he states. You have taken my comments out the context of my reply. Not trollig for any response, just making a valid point.

You measured the benefits of being in the E.U. in terms of state pension provision which has now been pointed out to you is erroneous.

Quoted from DB

Well Ska from your comments you'll have a lot to do in life to earn some respect. Codcheeeky they should have prepared for the very worst and then they would have been ready.

You should be pleasant Chrisblor because we older generation have been through the last near 50 years realising that the politicians of our youth conned us into voting for the EU. We voted for a trading agreement , not a Lisbon or Maastricht treaty or any other treaty. We did not vote for a European parliament, European Commissioners or to hand over our fishing rights so the European fishermen could dredge our waters dry of fish and take away any chance of a decent trawler fleet for Grimsby.
I could go on and on about what we lost.

The old saying is that you do not know what you've got until you've lost it. That is why you should respect the older people of which all of you will be one day. Been there done it got the medal and regretted. Experience is king, opinions and thoughts mean nothing.

As for financially better of why didn't our so called European friends make our pensions like those of Germany etc.  

The demise of the Grimsby trawler fleet which was based mainly around fishing off Iceland and into the White Sea had little to do with the E.U but everything to do with NATOs reaction to the threat to evict the Americans from their Icelandic base during the Second Cod War. Add to that the incompetence of the negotiators of the then Labour government and the greed of the trawler owners in their rush to pocket the scrappage monies and Grimsby was destined to go the way of many industries- a process accelerated under the "Blessed Margaret".

Quoted from barralad

The demise of the Grimsby trawler fleet which was based mainly around fishing off Iceland and into the White Sea had little to do with the E.U but everything to do with NATOs reaction to the threat to evict the Americans from their Icelandic base during the Second Cod War. Add to that the incompetence of the negotiators of the then Labour government and the greed of the trawler owners in their rush to pocket the scrappage monies and Grimsby was destined to go the way of many industries- a process accelerated under the "Blessed Margaret".

I agree with you but we no longer have any trawlers in Grimsby, just a few seine netters or similar. What Maggie accelerated the EU finished off in one way or another.

There are lots of reasons which have led to the situation these days, when hardly any fish at all is landed in Grimsby - almost nil in 2019. There was £8m of shellfish landed in Grimsby though, mainly crabs (non-quota species), caught off the Yorks/Lincs coast.

Others on this board will have more knowledge (I don't work in the sector, I just soak up all the data) but the Brexit deal on fishing does look poor - it adds up something like this:

Value of UK share of quota in UK waters:
2020: £827m
2026: £972m

Value of EU share of quota in UK waters:
2020: £580m
2026: £434m

Link:

In theory there are more economic gains to be had if the government decides to strengthen the 'economic link' between the UK and its vessels. Currently a lot of foreign owned, uk-flagged and quota-holding vessels bring little economic benefit to the UK because they land and/or sell all their catch overseas, and have no UK crew. Example - in 2018 9000 tonnes of flatfish and whitefish was landed by 'UK' vessels in the Netherlands. A fair chunk of this will be UK quota sold from Grimsby to Dutch interests who set up UK companies and reflagged vessels to the UK, to fish the central and southern North Sea.