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Fan Owned Club

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pontoonlew
November 23, 2020, 5:10pm
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I think this season has made it painfully obvious (as if it already wasn't) exactly who is holding our club back. Mr Fenty and Mr Day have made bad decision after bad decision, the only credit I can give them is leaving us with some cash in the bank but what's the point if we continue to aim to avoid relegation and absolutely nothing else?

I'm personally not willing to watch the club rot whilst we have a manager in charge who seems genuinely invested in us pushing forward, we have money in the bank and a genuine chance to actually progress after 20 years of decline.

I genuinely think that to have a chance of progressing, we need to do something as a fanbase to properly bring about change. I'm calling on The Trust and the fans to put together a proposal that allows us to become fan owned. We've shown the sheer power of our fanbase previously and with the right people behind it I've absolutely no doubt we'd make a very good go at it. It also gives the flexibility to allow somebody remotely capable of running a football club to do so and be rid of the absolute dinosaurs that currently run it because I've seen absolutely nothing to suggest Day or Fenty will ever take us forward.
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moosey_club
November 23, 2020, 5:16pm
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Nice idea.

Rally around everyone and get a fund of at least 2 million then approach JF to buy him out/ clear his loans and bobs your mothers brother.


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male private Nale
November 23, 2020, 5:26pm
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How do fan owned clubs work ? How are decisions made ? Is it a board of fans elected then they make all decisions or is it every major decision goes to a vote to all fans?

If it is the former then what makes you think those voted in would make the right decisions?

If it is the latter then it would get bogged down in in fighting I imagine pretty quickly.

Is there a third way?

I believe the only way out of this in the medium term would be, if the rumours are to be believed, that Pettit and the other GY london based multi millionaire (whose name escapes me) makes an offer Fenty can't refuse then it would be them that take the club forward in the Brentford model of how to run a football club..
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golfer
November 23, 2020, 5:30pm
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We are already FAN owned.
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grimsby pete
November 23, 2020, 5:31pm

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How anybody can say Day is not forward thinking baffles me.

He said last year we aim to be in the championship in five years.  


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             68 Years following the Town

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pontoonlew
November 23, 2020, 5:37pm
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Quoted from male private Nale
How do fan owned clubs work ? How are decisions made ? Is it a board of fans elected then they make all decisions or is it every major decision goes to a vote to all fans?

If it is the former then what makes you think those voted in would make the right decisions?

If it is the latter then it would get bogged down in in fighting I imagine pretty quickly.

Is there a third way?

I believe the only way out of this in the medium term would be, if the rumours are to be believed, that Pettit and the other GY london based multi millionaire (whose name escapes me) makes an offer Fenty can't refuse then it would be them that take the club forward in the Brentford model of how to run a football club..


I've spoken to a couple of guys involved in fan ownership today (at Wimbledon, who btw are in the league above us and have just moved into a new stadium). The idea is fans would elect a board and then each trust member would have a single vote, nobody would own a larger share, it's all equal.

I see no reason personally why this cannot be explored further with the right backing.
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KingstonMariner
November 23, 2020, 5:39pm
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Quoted from male private Nale
How do fan owned clubs work ? How are decisions made ? Is it a board of fans elected then they make all decisions or is it every major decision goes to a vote to all fans?

If it is the former then what makes you think those voted in would make the right decisions?

If it is the latter then it would get bogged down in in fighting I imagine pretty quickly.

Is there a third way?

I believe the only way out of this in the medium term would be, if the rumours are to be believed, that Pettit and the other GY london based multi millionaire (whose name escapes me) makes an offer Fenty can't refuse then it would be them that take the club forward in the Brentford model of how to run a football club..


Normally there is a board of directors made up of representatives of the Trust who take all the day to day decisions. Only rarely do votes go out to the whole membership. Examples of that would be whether to permit outside parties to buy the club, or proposals on major capital raising initiatives.

AFC Wimbledon have used this model to go from a few blokes having a trial on the Common in 2002 to playing in their own stadium in League One in 2020, with several promotions on the way. All with a fan base lower than Town’s.


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realist
November 23, 2020, 5:48pm
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Wouldn't trust the Trust to run our football club. We are in the shite forever.
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Yoda
November 23, 2020, 6:12pm
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The trust would give it back to Fenty.!!
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grimsby pete
November 23, 2020, 6:31pm

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Quoted from pontoonlew


I've spoken to a couple of guys involved in fan ownership today (at Wimbledon, who btw are in the league above us and have just moved into a new stadium). The idea is fans would elect a board and then each trust member would have a single vote, nobody would own a larger share, it's all equal.
.


That's how our board works one man one vote if it's not unanimous we go with Fenty idea.

Think about it.  


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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Ruston AT
November 23, 2020, 7:18pm
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Does anybody think 2mil would buy out a control freak.
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TownSNAFU5
November 23, 2020, 7:20pm
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Mr Day was canny enough not to say which Championship.
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MuddyWaters
November 23, 2020, 7:29pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete
How anybody can say Day is not forward thinking baffles me.

He said last year we aim to be in the championship in five years.  


That was when Jolley was appointed in March 2018. We’re over halfway through the five years Pete.
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Ipswin
November 23, 2020, 9:20pm
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Quoted from Ruston AT
Does anybody think 2mil would buy out a control freak.


This 'fan owned' shite comes up every six months or so or more frequently when we are more crap than usual.

Even if somehow a fans consortium could raise the cash to buy the club and pay Fenty off how on earth are they going to have the funds to run it and buy the players we need ?

STs and match receipts might keep the club running on a day to day basis but to attract players better than those seen on Ploggers every weekend you have to a) buy them and b) pay them

A fans ownership couldn't run it any better than the current regime and wouldn't be able to invest financially either so there wou;d be no change



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MNH1972
November 23, 2020, 9:39pm
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Why should we pay for all of Fenty mistakes.
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pontoonlew
November 23, 2020, 10:10pm
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Quoted from Ipswin


This 'fan owned' shite comes up every six months or so or more frequently when we are more crap than usual.

Even if somehow a fans consortium could raise the cash to buy the club and pay Fenty off how on earth are they going to have the funds to run it and buy the players we need ?

STs and match receipts might keep the club running on a day to day basis but to attract players better than those seen on Ploggers every weekend you have to a) buy them and b) pay them

A fans ownership couldn't run it any better than the current regime and wouldn't be able to invest financially either so there wou;d be no change



Aye, tell that to Wimbledon.

The ‘it’ll never work’ attitude just sums us up as a club, absolutely no ambition whatsoever and stuck right where we deserve to be based on that.
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Swansea_Mariner
November 23, 2020, 10:13pm
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Literally how could it be any worse if anyone can rationally explain  that then fair play to them.
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moosey_club
November 23, 2020, 10:27pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Aye, tell that to Wimbledon.


The ‘it’ll never work’ attitude just sums us up as a club, absolutely no ambition whatsoever and stuck right where we deserve to be based on that.


Did they have to buy the club from a man who has held absolute control for 15 yrs, is owed around £2m, seems adamant he is getting his money back before he relinquishes control and even then would want whoever takes over to have more money at their disposal than he would have put in himself ?



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HertsGTFC
November 23, 2020, 10:32pm

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First you need a lot of cash to takeover and give your bank and the EFL (though they’ll believe any charlatan) confidence that you can move the club forward, stay in the black and court other investors.

Then you’d need a team of people who may or not be paid to pretty much dedicate their time and professional expertise in accounting, law, commerce and a number of other areas.

If you get this you then need an elected board that can please all of the people all of the time and not argue with each other, could be a real challenge that judging by some threads on this board over the years. Also those people will needs skins thicker than a trawler hull as you won’t be able to go for a pint or go round Asda without getting stick if things are going badly.

Then you’ll need a biblical miracle worker or alchemist to get us out of the sh1t hole that is BP and give the new regime scope to attract further investment to actually make it work. As much as it’s not very palatable in our current home we are a pretty unattractive investment.

It’s a nice thought but I’d be amazed if it ever happened.



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ginnywings
November 23, 2020, 11:18pm

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As much as I would love a fan owned and run club, it usually comes about when the situation is so desperate, that there is no other alternative but for the fans to resurrect a dead duck club from extinction after all other avenues have been exhausted. The fans are forced into it and have to sink or swim. Also, there isn't usually anyone to pay to gain control like the situation we have.

If JF pulled the plug tomorrow and left us in the lurch, then I'm sure our fans would rise to challenge if no other parties were interested, but that's not likely to happen.

Despite years of underachievement on the pitch, the club has remained steadfastly solvent off it. There is no reason for the fans to assume control. Our only hope at the moment is that Ollie does the biz and makes us more attractive and successful, hopefully developing some saleable assets along the way.
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 12:40am
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The only reason it won’t work is because of the negativity of fans as has just been demonstrated here. You get the club you deserve.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 12:41am
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Quoted from Ipswin


This 'fan owned' shite comes up every six months or so or more frequently when we are more crap than usual.

Even if somehow a fans consortium could raise the cash to buy the club and pay Fenty off how on earth are they going to have the funds to run it and buy the players we need ?

STs and match receipts might keep the club running on a day to day basis but to attract players better than those seen on Ploggers every weekend you have to a) buy them and b) pay them

A fans ownership couldn't run it any better than the current regime and wouldn't be able to invest financially either so there wou;d be no change



And how much have the current owners put in over the last half a dozen years?


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I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 12:55am
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Quoted from moosey_club


Did they have to buy the club from a man who has held absolute control for 15 yrs, is owed around £2m, seems adamant he is getting his money back before he relinquishes control and even then would want whoever takes over to have more money at their disposal than he would have put in himself ?



Sure they didn’t have to pay off an existing owner. But they had equally big hurdles to overcome. First of all they had no ground. They had to start at village level football. So the only income was what they got through the turnstiles, and sponsorship (Combined Counties level isn’t a great draw for advertisers), less what they paid in rent.

After a season or so they got the money together to buy the lease on the ground they were sub-letting from Kingstonian. That cost more than what it would cost to buy Fenty out. Then raised the money to invest in upgrading the ground to League standard.

Then they went and built a completely new stadium.

All the naysayers are effectively saying Grimsby folk haven’t got what it takes.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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aldi_01
November 24, 2020, 6:13am

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Fan owned clubs work, there’s evidence of that.

GTFC don’t need to be fan owner though, they just need a new owner. I’m sure plenty will leap to the defence of Fenty and chums but anyone that wants the club to move forward both on and off the pitch knows that we need fresh blood and fresh ideas. Some ideas would be nice.

The stumbling block is always Fenty, he is adamant he wants his loans back which is fine but there always seems to be a caveat. Like last time, wanting to remain in control for a prolonged handover then when he suits he walks away. Does he honestly want to sell? He can say he does but if he’s as desperate as he claims he’s have moved us on by now.

People defend him, people bash him but whenever the club starts to do its usual and seemingly become a chaotic mess this discussion returns, that should tell people something.

It is possible to support the club/team and recognise that the leadership is woeful.


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TAGG
November 24, 2020, 7:04am

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Why are people dismissing this out of hand??

There must be some brains out there who could get together and look at this idea??

If its a non starter then fair enough but I think the vast majority think that something needs to be done to try and change the downward trajectory of the club.

Our club needs saving by whatever means so everything possible should be looked at and just not dismissed.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
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Ipswin
November 24, 2020, 7:30am
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Aye, tell that to Wimbledon.

The ‘it’ll never work’ attitude just sums us up as a club, absolutely no ambition whatsoever and stuck right where we deserve to be based on that.


How many millions or even thousands have you got to invest?



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Ipswin
November 24, 2020, 7:31am
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


And how much have the current owners put in over the last half a dozen years?


Nothing I thought that's what you were moaning about A fan owned club would be just the same Your average fan hasn't got the necessary funds needed



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HertsGTFC
November 24, 2020, 7:46am

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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Sure they didn’t have to pay off an existing owner. But they had equally big hurdles to overcome. First of all they had no ground. They had to start at village level football. So the only income was what they got through the turnstiles, and sponsorship (Combined Counties level isn’t a great draw for advertisers), less what they paid in rent.

After a season or so they got the money together to buy the lease on the ground they were sub-letting from Kingstonian. That cost more than what it would cost to buy Fenty out. Then raised the money to invest in upgrading the ground to League standard.

Then they went and built a completely new stadium.

All the naysayers are effectively saying Grimsby folk haven’t got what it takes.


Clearly Wimbledon is a great success story but as mad as it sounds didn’t starting at such a low level allow them to grow organically and at a pace that was right for them?

I don’t know the full story but it would be good to understand how they enabled their new ground as we could learn something from that regardless of our model.

I think it’s also worth noting that in terms of location, density of population and economies that part of Greater London is a very different place to NE Lincs and I suggest provides more opportunity to garner investment.

Though the principle is great the reality is that it’s two different scenarios. Finding the money to buy out JF and then under write and sustain a model that isn’t very successful in footballing terms but is relatively safe financially would in reality be a massive challenge if not impossible.

People would surely cough up their own £10s, £20s, £100s and we’ve raising 1000s is doable millions though is a completely different ball game.

The overall view is yes the club is under funded to meet our expectations, aspirations and hopes but let’s not lose sight of the fact we are covering the salaries of around 30 pros, could we have got through the first part of this season with more quality than quantity? Some of our current issues on the pitch are not solely the fault of those off it.



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pontoonlew
November 24, 2020, 8:05am
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Quoted from Ipswin


How many millions or even thousands have you got to invest?



Tell you what, if I had the chance to do it I’d run it a damn sight better than these lot. A few months ago our social media guy went on holiday and the club went to flipping pot, Fenty and Day can’t even get the very basics right and fail to see the value in the small things that’d make a huge difference.

I did get an emailed response from Dave Roberts(who’s response was fantastic) today, the figures quoted are flipping eye watering and it’s absolutely no wonder nobody has taken us on, Fenty’s stranglehold is way worse than I thought.

As a fan base with good fund raising and innovation we could come up with it, that or raise enough attention for people that do have the money to do it. However this thread has demonstrated our fan base are just as willing to accept dross as our major shareholder is willing to deal it out in bucket loads.

It’s beginning to become obvious why our club and our town are in such a mess, it’s the inward looking people in it that are the issue.
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Ipswin
November 24, 2020, 8:14am
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Quoted from pontoonlew




As a fan base with good fund raising and innovation we could come raise enough attention for people that do have the money to do it. .


But that's a completely different matter, for a start it wouldn't be a club run by the fans then would it.

Problem is there is every chance that the attention of someone who does not have GTFC  at heart like the fans and a Bury or Charlton type owner moves in



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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 8:20am
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Tell you what, if I had the chance to do it I’d run it a damn sight better than these lot. A few months ago our social media guy went on holiday and the club went to flipping pot, Fenty and Day can’t even get the very basics right and fail to see the value in the small things that’d make a huge difference.

I did get an emailed response from Dave Roberts(who’s response was fantastic) today, the figures quoted are flipping eye watering and it’s absolutely no wonder nobody has taken us on, Fenty’s stranglehold is way worse than I thought.

As a fan base with good fund raising and innovation we could come up with it, that or raise enough attention for people that do have the money to do it. However this thread has demonstrated our fan base are just as willing to accept dross as our major shareholder is willing to deal it out in bucket loads.

It’s beginning to become obvious why our club and our town are in such a mess, it’s the inward looking people in it that are the issue.


Fantastic that you got a reply from Dave Roberts but I’m guessing that the price tag includes all the money spent on hiring and firing a multitude of poor players and inept managers.
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dapperz fun pub
November 24, 2020, 8:25am
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Tell you what, if I had the chance to do it I’d run it a damn sight better than these lot. A few months ago our social media guy went on holiday and the club went to flipping pot, Fenty and Day can’t even get the very basics right and fail to see the value in the small things that’d make a huge difference.

I did get an emailed response from Dave Roberts(who’s response was fantastic) today, the figures quoted are flipping eye watering and it’s absolutely no wonder nobody has taken us on, Fenty’s stranglehold is way worse than I thought.

As a fan base with good fund raising and innovation we could come up with it, that or raise enough attention for people that do have the money to do it. However this thread has demonstrated our fan base are just as willing to accept dross as our major shareholder is willing to deal it out in bucket loads.

It’s beginning to become obvious why our club and our town are in such a mess, it’s the inward looking people in it that are the issue.


We live in a town that asks for nothing and gets nothing , we have been failed miserably by politicians of both persuasions for decades the sitting mps imo being particulary useless. Our club is dying in front of us and I applaud your ambition to do something positive to stop this however the vice hold the club is in means the position will not improve and I can only see olly departing ( hope I’m wrong ) rather than having the embarrassment of taking us to non league
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pen penfras
November 24, 2020, 8:26am

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Quoted from pontoonlew


Tell you what, if I had the chance to do it I’d run it a damn sight better than these lot. A few months ago our social media guy went on holiday and the club went to flipping pot, Fenty and Day can’t even get the very basics right and fail to see the value in the small things that’d make a huge difference.

I did get an emailed response from Dave Roberts(who’s response was fantastic) today, the figures quoted are flipping eye watering and it’s absolutely no wonder nobody has taken us on, Fenty’s stranglehold is way worse than I thought.

As a fan base with good fund raising and innovation we could come up with it, that or raise enough attention for people that do have the money to do it. However this thread has demonstrated our fan base are just as willing to accept dross as our major shareholder is willing to deal it out in bucket loads.

It’s beginning to become obvious why our club and our town are in such a mess, it’s the inward looking people in it that are the issue.


What are these "eye watering" figures?

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pontoonlew
November 24, 2020, 9:06am
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Quoted from pen penfras


What are these "eye watering" figures?



For the loans and current shareholder buyout, it's a minimum of £3.5m. There's absolutely no wonder it's not an attractive acquisition for anybody.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 24, 2020, 10:11am
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Quoted from pontoonlew


For the loans and current shareholder buyout, it's a minimum of £3.5m. There's absolutely no wonder it's not an attractive acquisition for anybody.


This has always been the problem, hasn't it?

No astute business consortium is going to pay someone eyewatering amounts, which is basically paying him back for a litany of failings.

It is very unlikely anybody, fans groups, business partners or anybody else is going to stump up that sort of money, in addition to the sums needed to make a difference in the future. I actually don't think too much money would be needed once new owners were in place, just a new beginning and get us all pulling together would do wonders.

How DO we get new owners though is the dilemma?

I feel for Ollie, I really do, having to step into this twilight world of a poor owner, with no investment who takes his loans back, but with a fan base who still seems to think he is untouchable.

What was the discussion like over that fish and chip lunch?  Why would Ollie be so enthusiastic with talk of a new stadium (pipedream under this board) or where any new money was going to come from? Did Ollie say he would raise money through players sales to pay Fenty off?

Without covid I am sure we would have made a much better fist of it - the matchday income would have allowed better player recruitment and so forth, but let's be honest, until the curse of Fenty is lifted we will not move forward.

The only thing we can hope for is in January we pay decent salaries for experienced players, crowds return and things get back to normal and the team turns it around, and then Ollie starts from next season with a normal budget and contracts, sells one or two to pay Fenty off and then see who would invest in the club. I don't think there is a quicker way out of this than letting things naturally evolve, but we must keep away from the danger zone and Ollie must remain in charge to oversee an overhauling of the club once we get through this gruesome time.
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marinerdazza
November 24, 2020, 10:19am
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Fan owned clubs can work. I suspect however, that Wimbledon had a large pool of local expertise being a London club. One issue with us is that we're so spread out.
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pontoonlew
November 24, 2020, 10:22am
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This has always been the problem, hasn't it?

No astute business consortium is going to pay someone eyewatering amounts, which is basically paying him back for a litany of failings.

It is very unlikely anybody, fans groups, business partners or anybody else is going to stump up that sort of money, in addition to the sums needed to make a difference in the future. I actually don't think too much money would be needed once new owners were in place, just a new beginning and get us all pulling together would do wonders.

How DO we get new owners though is the dilemma?

I feel for Ollie, I really do, having to step into this twilight world of a poor owner, with no investment who takes his loans back, but with a fan base who still seems to think he is untouchable.

What was the discussion like over that fish and chip lunch?  Why would Ollie be so enthusiastic with talk of a new stadium (pipedream under this board) or where any new money was going to come from? Did Ollie say he would raise money through players sales to pay Fenty off?

Without covid I am sure we would have made a much better fist of it - the matchday income would have allowed better player recruitment and so forth, but let's be honest, until the curse of Fenty is lifted we will not move forward.

The only thing we can hope for is in January we pay decent salaries for experienced players, crowds return and things get back to normal and the team turns it around, and then Ollie starts from next season with a normal budget and contracts, sells one or two to pay Fenty off and then see who would invest in the club. I don't think there is a quicker way out of this than letting things naturally evolve, but we must keep away from the danger zone and Ollie must remain in charge to oversee an overhauling of the club once we get through this gruesome time.


I think the general consensus has been that the figure would've been slightly lower than that (around £2m) so for it to be almost double that as a bare minimum is disappointing.

It seems to me that the decisions made around the pandemic were different to everybody elses and it's backfired massively. We accounted for the worst case scenario and nothing else, that to me is a mistake in itself because those errors will take another couple of seasons to undo and we'll need to rebuild over that time (again).

The best case scenario for me is a couple of investors coming in with backing from the trust.

The Euromillions is £120m tonight...  
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diehardmariner
November 24, 2020, 10:56am
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As much as I'd like GTFC to be fan owned, I don't think it's needed.   I don't really care who the majority shareholder in the club is or who owns what proportion of shares. I just want us to be run better.

What's needed more than anything is for the club to invest in a very good CEO.  We're not run well and that much is clear to see.  We need root and branch change to how we're run and it needs to be someone completely external who can come in and turn us around.

Might seem like a large investment at the time but I'd be confident it would more than repay itself quite quickly.  
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lew chaterleys lover
November 24, 2020, 11:04am
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Quoted from diehardmariner
As much as I'd like GTFC to be fan owned, I don't think it's needed.   I don't really care who the majority shareholder in the club is or who owns what proportion of shares. I just want us to be run better.

What's needed more than anything is for the club to invest in a very good CEO.  We're not run well and that much is clear to see.  We need root and branch change to how we're run and it needs to be someone completely external who can come in and turn us around.

Might seem like a large investment at the time but I'd be confident it would more than repay itself quite quickly.  


A competent CEO would be a good start, but obviously, Fenty won't hear of it. In any case it would be a waste of money because the final say is always Fenty's  and unless the CEO agrees with him we are back to square one.

We won't go anywhere with Fenty, I think we can agree on that, but even with a normal budget in a normal season we would probably do much better on the field with the manager we have got, and I cannot see any other way round it other than success on the field leading to more money leading to Fenty being paid off.
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TheRealJohnLewis
November 24, 2020, 12:04pm
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If JF is asking for £3.5m, it shows how much of a crook and certainly proves not a real fan. Going off the accounts from last year as I don't have eyes on the latest results. JF has £975k (£400k (?) of which he stole/bullied/conned off of the Trust!). He also has loans of £1.55m assuming he hasn't taken anymore out of the club.  Therefore the max he should receive is £975k-(£400k)+1550k  = £2.125m.  The is zero goodwill in GTFC, so he can not demand extra.

If or when he eventually leaves I would be disgusted if he didn't give the shares back to the trust, there's no way he should profit from that episode.
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Mayaman
November 24, 2020, 12:07pm
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I'm gonna download Football Manager 2021 and get some practice in.
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TheRealJohnLewis
November 24, 2020, 12:10pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner
As much as I'd like GTFC to be fan owned, I don't think it's needed.   I don't really care who the majority shareholder in the club is or who owns what proportion of shares. I just want us to be run better.

What's needed more than anything is for the club to invest in a very good CEO.  We're not run well and that much is clear to see.  We need root and branch change to how we're run and it needs to be someone completely external who can come in and turn us around.

Might seem like a large investment at the time but I'd be confident it would more than repay itself quite quickly.  


I would love to see the club fan-owned but I agree that it doesn't need to be.  The way I see a CEO is that they are the figurehead, the voice and the decision-maker within a company. At present, JF does all of these, apart from his words come out of Day's mouth.

Change is needed but with all the apathy shown on all of these threads, nothing will.  Fans have all the power here, we can make a change, we just need a voice and a figurehead.   We need fan representation, that works for the fans and not for the club.

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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 1:21pm
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 1:24pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC


Clearly Wimbledon is a great success story but as mad as it sounds didn’t starting at such a low level allow them to grow organically and at a pace that was right for them?

I don’t know the full story but it would be good to understand how they enabled their new ground as we could learn something from that regardless of our model.

I think it’s also worth noting that in terms of location, density of population and economies that part of Greater London is a very different place to NE Lincs and I suggest provides more opportunity to garner investment.

Though the principle is great the reality is that it’s two different scenarios. Finding the money to buy out JF and then under write and sustain a model that isn’t very successful in footballing terms but is relatively safe financially would in reality be a massive challenge if not impossible.

People would surely cough up their own £10s, £20s, £100s and we’ve raising 1000s is doable millions though is a completely different ball game.

The overall view is yes the club is under funded to meet our expectations, aspirations and hopes but let’s not lose sight of the fact we are covering the salaries of around 30 pros, could we have got through the first part of this season with more quality than quantity? Some of our current issues on the pitch are not solely the fault of those off it.



That population density and higher wealth also makes London a more expensive place to run a football club and buy/rent land to build a ground. Which is why they were in that position in the first place - their owner saw a chance to make a fast buck by selling the old Plough Lane ground for property development. There are also many other football clubs in the area and other activities and entertainments on offer than in NE Lincs, so it’s much easier for people to drift away from their club.

I’d say that where starting from scratch helped is in helping people realise it had to be done and it was on them. But look at how far they’ve come in little more than the time Fenty has been in charge. They had to do something or immediately lose their club.

Of course it’s two different scenarios, but it shows what can be done. I think the difference is just what you believe. I could look up the information and share it. But right now Im of the mindset that you can lead a horse to water but can’t make it drink. If you wanted to you could easily look into how Wimbledon raised the money at each key stage.

Judging by the reaction on here people simply don’t want to seriously look into the idea, or are quite happy to wait forever for a rich man to arrive and save the day, and blame others when it doesn’t happen.




Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 1:31pm
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Quoted from marinerdazza
Fan owned clubs can work. I suspect however, that Wimbledon had a large pool of local expertise being a London club. One issue with us is that we're so spread out.


That is a fair point, but technology has improved massively since AFCW started. Distance is less of an obstacle and I bet there’s plenty of talented people not far away from GY.

We have crowds equal or better than a Wimbledon plus we have a large diaspora on top of that. That could be worked to our advantage. It’s a big resource to tap into.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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lew chaterleys lover
November 24, 2020, 2:01pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


That is it exactly. Yet still there are far too many people who think John Fenty is good for GTFC. In reality, he just sucks the life of the club and has done almost since day one. If you could put together a video showing how not to run a community-based football club John Fenty would have the copyright on it.

I would love to know what rationale Ollie is using for his "well run" mantra. I suspect it is a smokescreen to put the club in a good light for the battles ahead, but I hope to high heaven we see the back of Fenty in the not too distant future.
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Swansea_Mariner
November 24, 2020, 2:09pm
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How on earth do they get to a figure like £3.5m???
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Tommy
November 24, 2020, 2:55pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner
As much as I'd like GTFC to be fan owned, I don't think it's needed.   I don't really care who the majority shareholder in the club is or who owns what proportion of shares. I just want us to be run better.

What's needed more than anything is for the club to invest in a very good CEO.  We're not run well and that much is clear to see.  We need root and branch change to how we're run and it needs to be someone completely external who can come in and turn us around.

Might seem like a large investment at the time but I'd be confident it would more than repay itself quite quickly.  


I don't disagree but JF is too much of a power/control freak to allow someone else that responsibility and authority while he is......lets face it....chairman in all but name.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 3:09pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
How on earth do they get to a figure like £3.5m???


Purely a guess but I'm thinking shares (which aren't really worth anything in a football club), loans and debentures/guarantees. Oh, and the goodwill.....
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Lincoln Mariner 56
November 24, 2020, 3:12pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
How on earth do they get to a figure like £3.5m???


I assume it’s the total of the club’s share capital, which I believe is over £2M, plus the outstanding Fenty loans of £1.5M. But I am no financial expert and those on the Fishy who study the clubs accounts will have a better idea.
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 3:26pm
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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56


I assume it’s the total of the club’s share capital, which I believe is over £2M, plus the outstanding Fenty loans of £1.5M. But I am no financial expert and those on the Fishy who study the clubs accounts will have a better idea.


The club's shares don't all belong to JF.
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Swansea_Mariner
November 24, 2020, 3:32pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


The club's shares don't all belong to JF.


Exactly so why would he need £3.5m to sell up
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 3:46pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner


Exactly so why would he need £3.5m to sell up


I've no idea!
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pontoonlew
November 24, 2020, 3:48pm
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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner


Exactly so why would he need £3.5m to sell up


It's not just Fenty who would need paying...
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 3:50pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew


It's not just Fenty who would need paying...


That's quite a big assumption. Surely someone buying a controlling interest off someone with a controlling interest would talk to other shareholders such as Mike Parker to see how the land lies?
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grimsby pete
November 24, 2020, 3:54pm

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When I win the euro 120 million tonight I will buy all the shares pay back his loans then tell him if he is such a big fan he can pay to watch town in our super duper stadium like everybody else.

Then I would give back the shares to the true fans with a bonus.

I would only hire people from the board down to the gate man who have the club at heart and are true fans.

Then I would leave the running of the club to somebody who loves town as much as me.

Then like Trump I would hire the rest of the family to do certain jobs like driving me to every game while I sit in the back watching a video with a glass of bubbly.

If you are going to dream.

Dream big !!!!!!!!!!!


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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Swansea_Mariner
November 24, 2020, 3:56pm
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Let's get real these shares are worthless they are certainly not worth £2m after the loans are removed from the equation.
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grimsby pete
November 24, 2020, 3:59pm

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Quoted from Swansea_Mariner
Let's get real these shares are worthless they are certainly not worth £2m after the loans are removed from the equation.


I am sure if anybody wants to take over50% of the shares they have to offer to buy out the shares of all the shares holders.


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 4:07pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete
When I win the euro 120 million tonight I will buy all the shares pay back his loans then tell him if he is such a big fan he can pay to watch town in our super duper stadium like everybody else.

Then I would give back the shares to the true fans with a bonus.

I would only hire people from the board down to the gate man who have the club at heart and are true fans.

Then I would leave the running of the club to somebody who loves town as much as me.

Then like Trump I would hire the rest of the family to do certain jobs like driving me to every game while I sit in the back watching a video with a glass of bubbly.

If you are going to dream.

Dream big !!!!!!!!!!!


Like it Pete.

However, you would surely be moving back from Suffolk into the luxury penthouse built on the Harrington Street open corner?
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Lincoln Mariner 56
November 24, 2020, 4:07pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


The club's shares don't all belong to JF.


I assume if you are buying out the majority shareholder you have to make an offer to other shareholders, is that not right finance guys?

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grimsby pete
November 24, 2020, 4:09pm

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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Like it Pete.

However, you would surely be moving back from Suffolk into the luxury penthouse built on the Harrington Street open corner?


Yes nice sea view  


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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golfer
November 24, 2020, 4:13pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Aye, tell that to Wimbledon.

The ‘it’ll never work’ attitude just sums us up as a club, absolutely no ambition whatsoever and stuck right where we deserve to be based on that.


o.k.   Here's my 50p. Take 25p towards buying the club and 20p towards buying a new ground and the other 5p towards buying a few decent players. Will this make me a share holder. This is a brilliant idea.
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Swansea_Mariner
November 24, 2020, 4:23pm
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Not all of those offers have to be accepted though why for example would the trust sell their shares?

Nobody's gonna offer par value for these shares, something nominal like 5p on the pound sounds realistic if your taking on a huge debt due to the loans.
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 4:44pm
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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56


I assume if you are buying out the majority shareholder you have to make an offer to other shareholders, is that not right finance guys?



It is true but I would suspect that most shareholders, as fans, wouldn’t want to sell. That’s why JF only needs around 44% to have control, isn’t it?
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AndyDarloFC
November 24, 2020, 4:53pm
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Fan owned clubs will only work if the fan-base pull together and then stick together through the good/bad times.

You only have too look at Scarborough when they went bust and that fan-base divided between Scarborough fans and I'm sure that at 1 point - There was 2 teams in the town due to divide.
This happened with Northwich Victoria aswell, 2 teams were set up and fans were divided.
The same is happening at Bury right now, most are in favour of the phoenix club and some are still in hope the original will be placed in the football ladder for the 21/22 season.

Thankfully, us at Darlington have stuck together and now it's our club - We are doing well off the field for the 1st time in a long time.
- We've raised collectively 1.5 million pounds in 8 short years to fund our 3 promotions.
- Paid off the legacy debt that Raj Singh left us in back in 2012.
- We've even clubbed together and bought stands for our temp home at Blackwell Meadows.
- We've got no debt currently
- For the away game at Bristol Rovers in the FA Cup this weekend, we've raised an additional £3750 to pay for the players to have a hotel stay the night before for better prep (something we rarely do at the moment).
- Every season we top up the budget with the #BoostTheBudget - This season we raised a grand total of £131,910 for our gaffer Alun Armstrong. We put extra in, because we know that the club is being well ran and we know where every penny goes.
- Since the start of this season, we've did 50/50 draws online for each game. We've played 7 home games so far, we've had over £10,000 in the pot - At least 5k to the winners and 5k to the club - It all adds up.

My advice is: Stick together. Don't let Fenty and co bring you down - You've got a cracking fanbase (I've been to home and away games with Town in the last 10/11 years). You deserve some more success than what you currently have, don't lose that hope - It'll come good before you know it. If we can do it on our small fanbase of 1500/2000 fans, you can do it on your 3500/4000 easy.
You lot are as loyal as you come, you're also my adopted second team since it's the hometown of my daughter, keep the faith. Can't wait to get fans back at the game and I can be alongside my mates at an away game watching Town.

#UTM


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BobbyCummingsTackle
November 24, 2020, 5:00pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Like it Pete.

However, you would surely be moving back from Suffolk into the luxury penthouse built on the Harrington Street open corner?


Yep, who wouldn't want to live on Harrington St after winning 120 mill???!!!!


Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
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MuddyWaters
November 24, 2020, 5:04pm
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Yep, who wouldn't want to live on Harrington St after winning 120 mill???!!!!


You could buy Harrington Street and have nearly all your money left.
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Lincoln Mariner 56
November 24, 2020, 5:13pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


It is true but I would suspect that most shareholders, as fans, wouldn’t want to sell. That’s why JF only needs around 44% to have control, isn’t it?


I’m sure your right. I was just trying to surmise how an asking price of £3.5M could be arrived at and also assume this for the purchaser would be a worst case scenario and fans would hope the price would be much lower.
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Boris Johnson
November 24, 2020, 5:21pm
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I'll put in a Fiver
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Gaffer58
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I’m a shareholder, well I have one on the wall in a frame, so if someone wants to buy out Mr Fenty’s shares and it would help to keep the price down I’m quite happy for it to stay on the wall.
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Ipswin
November 24, 2020, 6:32pm
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Quoted from grimsby pete


Then I would leave the running of the club to somebody who loves town as much as me.



That will be John Fenty Pete

By the way if you win I do not want to hold onto my shares You can certainlky buy them but it is really going to cost you big time



On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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moosey_club
November 24, 2020, 8:08pm
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Quoted from pontoonlew


Tell you what, if I had the chance to do it I’d run it a damn sight better than these lot. A few months ago our social media guy went on holiday and the club went to flipping pot, Fenty and Day can’t even get the very basics right and fail to see the value in the small things that’d make a huge difference.

1. I did get an emailed response from Dave Roberts(who’s response was fantastic) today, the figures quoted are flipping eye watering and it’s absolutely no wonder nobody has taken us on, Fenty’s stranglehold is way worse than I thought.

As a fan base with good fund raising and innovation we could come up with it, that or raise enough attention for people that do have the money to do it. However this thread has demonstrated our fan base are just as willing to accept dross as our major shareholder is willing to deal it out in bucket loads.

2 . It’s beginning to become obvious why our club and our town are in such a mess, it’s the inward looking people in it that are the issue.


1.  Would you care to share the eye watering figures then so we can decide if its worth getting started ?
2. So its all our fault then ? Nice way to get us on board with your takeover plan .  



2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW
2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
2018/19  LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  
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140067
November 24, 2020, 9:46pm
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Ha ha let the fans run the club. No chance of agreeing just look at the bile on here.
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 10:22pm
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Quoted from AndyDarloFC
Fan owned clubs will only work if the fan-base pull together and then stick together through the good/bad times.

You only have too look at Scarborough when they went bust and that fan-base divided between Scarborough fans and I'm sure that at 1 point - There was 2 teams in the town due to divide.
This happened with Northwich Victoria aswell, 2 teams were set up and fans were divided.
The same is happening at Bury right now, most are in favour of the phoenix club and some are still in hope the original will be placed in the football ladder for the 21/22 season.

Thankfully, us at Darlington have stuck together and now it's our club - We are doing well off the field for the 1st time in a long time.
- We've raised collectively 1.5 million pounds in 8 short years to fund our 3 promotions.
- Paid off the legacy debt that Raj Singh left us in back in 2012.
- We've even clubbed together and bought stands for our temp home at Blackwell Meadows.
- We've got no debt currently
- For the away game at Bristol Rovers in the FA Cup this weekend, we've raised an additional £3750 to pay for the players to have a hotel stay the night before for better prep (something we rarely do at the moment).
- Every season we top up the budget with the #BoostTheBudget - This season we raised a grand total of £131,910 for our gaffer Alun Armstrong. We put extra in, because we know that the club is being well ran and we know where every penny goes.
- Since the start of this season, we've did 50/50 draws online for each game. We've played 7 home games so far, we've had over £10,000 in the pot - At least 5k to the winners and 5k to the club - It all adds up.

My advice is: Stick together. Don't let Fenty and co bring you down - You've got a cracking fanbase (I've been to home and away games with Town in the last 10/11 years). You deserve some more success than what you currently have, don't lose that hope - It'll come good before you know it. If we can do it on our small fanbase of 1500/2000 fans, you can do it on your 3500/4000 easy.
You lot are as loyal as you come, you're also my adopted second team since it's the hometown of my daughter, keep the faith. Can't wait to get fans back at the game and I can be alongside my mates at an away game watching Town.

#UTM


It's no good coming on here with positive examples Andy. People like to believe that we can't do it.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
November 24, 2020, 10:46pm
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In the latest accounts Directors' Loans are £1,550,000*. Nothing was paid back over the last year. The last time that Directors' Loans increased was 2015 (i.e. the year of the Bristol Rovers play-off) when they went up to £2,244,550. So in the last 5 years £694,550 so an average of just under £140k paid back each year.

* The last time they were lower was 2008.

Called up Share Capital is £2,291,300. Anyone who is not currently a shareholder would have to offer to buy all shareholders out if they want 51% of the club. Hence the £3.8m figure someone mentioned above. Fenty owns 43%.

On top of this there is other debt.

Then there is the guarantee of £325k (presume this is a guarantee to lend the club more money. So to meet the board's demands, an outside buyer would have to have over £4.1m available.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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MuddyWaters
November 25, 2020, 10:50am
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Quoted from grimsby pete
When I win the euro 120 million tonight I will buy all the shares pay back his loans then tell him if he is such a big fan he can pay to watch town in our super duper stadium like everybody else.

Then I would give back the shares to the true fans with a bonus.

I would only hire people from the board down to the gate man who have the club at heart and are true fans.

Then I would leave the running of the club to somebody who loves town as much as me.

Then like Trump I would hire the rest of the family to do certain jobs like driving me to every game while I sit in the back watching a video with a glass of bubbly.

If you are going to dream.

Dream big !!!!!!!!!!!


Did you win? 🥴
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TheRealJohnLewis
November 25, 2020, 11:08am
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
In the latest accounts Directors' Loans are £1,550,000*. Nothing was paid back over the last year. The last time that Directors' Loans increased was 2015 (i.e. the year of the Bristol Rovers play-off) when they went up to £2,244,550. So in the last 5 years £694,550 so an average of just under £140k paid back each year.

* The last time they were lower was 2008.

Called up Share Capital is £2,291,300. Anyone who is not currently a shareholder would have to offer to buy all shareholders out if they want 51% of the club. Hence the £3.8m figure someone mentioned above. Fenty owns 43%.

On top of this, there is other debt.

Then there is the guarantee of £325k (presume this is a guarantee to lend the club more money. So to meet the board's demands, an outside buyer would have to have over £4.1m available.


As you have stated you would need to offer to buy all shares if you purchased more than half of the shares, but you would only need to buy out Fenty. So only £975k for shares and £1.55m for loans.  The £325k is only a promise of further funds should the club needed, so you wouldn't actually need to stump up that money. The other debt does not belong to JF so you wouldn't have to give him that money. So you would only need £2.5m to buy out JF.

All that needs to happy is a group that needs to come together and collectively have more shares than Fenty currently has. If the top 5 shareholders who are not on the board. Mike Parker, (500k), Trust, (321k), Mullens (130k), John Elsom (75k). that gives them just over a million (45%) and they would be deemed as having effective control.  I doubt the trust would go against JF though.

This would then test JF and the claims that he is a true fan, as to whether he demands his loans back immediately and puts the club at risk for his own selfish reason..  

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grimsby pete
November 25, 2020, 11:09am

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Quoted from MuddyWaters


Did you win? 🥴


No not this time   


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             68 Years following the Town

                              Life member of Trust

                               First game   April 1955
                               
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pen penfras
November 25, 2020, 1:11pm

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Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


As you have stated you would need to offer to buy all shares if you purchased more than half of the shares, but you would only need to buy out Fenty. So only £975k for shares and £1.55m for loans.  The £325k is only a promise of further funds should the club needed, so you wouldn't actually need to stump up that money. The other debt does not belong to JF so you wouldn't have to give him that money. So you would only need £2.5m to buy out JF.

All that needs to happy is a group that needs to come together and collectively have more shares than Fenty currently has. If the top 5 shareholders who are not on the board. Mike Parker, (500k), Trust, (321k), Mullens (130k), John Elsom (75k). that gives them just over a million (45%) and they would be deemed as having effective control.  I doubt the trust would go against JF though.

This would then test JF and the claims that he is a true fan, as to whether he demands his loans back immediately and puts the club at risk for his own selfish reason..  



It wouldn't test whether he's a true fan or not. It'd test whether or not he's willing to let other people play with his money, and increase the debt to him if they got it wrong. We already know the answer to that, like anybody else here, he isn't.
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TheRealJohnLewis
November 25, 2020, 2:42pm
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Quoted from pen penfras


It wouldn't test whether he's a true fan or not. It'd test whether or not he's willing to let other people play with his money, and increase the debt to him if they got it wrong. We already know the answer to that, like anybody else here, he isn't.


They wouldn't be increasing Fenty's debt, his debt would be sat there as if it was a bank loan. If they needed extra funds they would have to put in themselves or apply for a loan. It certainly would test whether he was a true fan.  

Virtually every single Town has entrusted JF to play with their money and he hasn't spent wisely!
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MuddyWaters
November 25, 2020, 3:13pm
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Quoted from pen penfras


It wouldn't test whether he's a true fan or not. It'd test whether or not he's willing to let other people play with his money, and increase the debt to him if they got it wrong. We already know the answer to that, like anybody else here, he isn't.


There's thousands of Town fans who have stopped letting him play with their money too.

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KingstonMariner
November 25, 2020, 9:51pm
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Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis


As you have stated you would need to offer to buy all shares if you purchased more than half of the shares, but you would only need to buy out Fenty. So only £975k for shares and £1.55m for loans.  The £325k is only a promise of further funds should the club needed, so you wouldn't actually need to stump up that money. The other debt does not belong to JF so you wouldn't have to give him that money. So you would only need £2.5m to buy out JF.

All that needs to happy is a group that needs to come together and collectively have more shares than Fenty currently has. If the top 5 shareholders who are not on the board. Mike Parker, (500k), Trust, (321k), Mullens (130k), John Elsom (75k). that gives them just over a million (45%) and they would be deemed as having effective control.  I doubt the trust would go against JF though.

This would then test JF and the claims that he is a true fan, as to whether he demands his loans back immediately and puts the club at risk for his own selfish reason..  



You wouldn't have to give JF the £325k, but you'd have to demonstrate that you have it available (and presumably put in some sort of escrow account) . This was the claimed sticking point for the last buy-out proposal. He won't sell unless you meet this. To have effective control without Fenty you'd need the owners of 51% of the shares aligned and have his debt cleared.

I suppose a third party could buy new shares to take a consortium over the threshold (assuming enough new shares are for sale) and buy his debt off him.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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