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smokey111
February 18, 2021, 1:11pm
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Green Book.

8/10.

An Italian/American bouncer takes a gay, black concert pianist across the southern states of America during the 1960s. He acts as his driver/confidant/protector.  True story. Heart warming and funny.


"The socialism I believe in is everybody working for the same goal and everybody having a share in the rewards. That’s how I see football, that’s how I see life.” Bill Shankly
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KingstonMariner
February 18, 2021, 3:59pm
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Quoted from Rick12
Apology's for the late reply just seen your post.

Ive always had faith since little and Jesus is just an extension to that.

Unless you was there at the time of Jesus and saw him there is no other way of me convincing you he existed but Iam certain you would have seen him. Maybe not what he was in the bible which may of been exaggerated  but certainly a devout Jewish preacher who tried to do something good and believed in something greater than him .

This historian puts it best :

“The reality is that we don’t have archaeological records for virtually anyone who lived in Jesus’s time and place,” says University of North Carolina religious studies professor Bart D. Ehrman, author of Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth. “The lack of evidence does not mean a person at the time didn’t exist. It means that she or he, like 99.99% of the rest of the world at the time, made no impact on the archaeological record.”

You can pick holes in anything and I can debate your points  until it becomes circular in argument and where do we stop?.

Ive actually been  to the holy land and entered Jesus's tomb in the church of the Holy Selpulchre which I found a very moving experience   .This has been a site of pilgrimage within 130 years of Jesus's death. All this is loosely  backed up by National Geographic scientists who done  research on the site . Likewise I have been to the Western Wall which is the  holiest site of the Jewish faith of which Jesus was part of and where Jews go to pray to the present day  . The wall was built 19 years before Christ. This is further solid archaeological evidence of which you cant dispute.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/10/jesus-christ-tomb-burial-church-holy-sepulchre/


I don’t need to pick holes in this argument. They are there for all without blind faith to see. That ‘historian’ has set out to prove something, which proper historians would not do. He’s not even a historian - he’s a religious studies prof as your extract states!

Pointing out flaws in fallacious arguments isn’t circular. It’s the fallacious argument that ‘it must be true because you can’t prove he didn’t exist’ that is circular.

So this prof. He’s saying there is no impact on the archaeological record like 99.99% of people (probably correct). Agree it doesn’t prove Jesus never existed, but it sure as eggs are eggs does not prove he existed either. He’s basically admitting “there’s nothing to see here”.

Then there’s the site which has been a place of pilgrimage for 1900 years.  Evidence of a cult does not prove anything either. There are ancient cult sites much older. Doesn’t mean that Ba’al or Mithras or any of the other myriad deities that people believed in existed either.

The Wailing Wall being built 19 years before Jesus’ birth proves nothing about whether Jesus existed. IT IS NOT ARCHAEOLOGICAL PROOF OF ANYTHING except that someone built a wall there in the first century BC. (I’m taking your date for the Wall as read - I don’t know when it was built, but I’d have guessed it was older than that).

A person’s feelings on being in a specific place or situation are also Not Historical evidence either (which is where we came in to this debate).

My advice would be to drop the claim that there is historical evidence for Jesus until you can come up with some real evidence. Your faith should be enough for you. You don’t need to justify your BELIEFS to me. The fact that I don’t think there is any historical evidence for Jesus does not mean that I don’t have any belief in him. I just don’t like claims that something is provable when it isn’t. Claims like that lead to all sorts of entanglements and trouble.

There’s more historical evidence for the Trojan War, King Arthur and Robin Hood (though not necessarily as the stories tell us) but they are far from accepted as fact by historians. Do I believe those things happened? Possibly yes. Would I be happy if they were proven true. Yes (maybe not the Trojan War bit because that would be unrelenting misery). Would I be happy if Jesus was proven to be a historical character anything like as good as the stories? Yes. Even if he was ‘just a good man’.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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KingstonMariner
February 18, 2021, 4:08pm
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Quoted from Sandford1981


I see your point entirely and even if you are factually correct (I have no idea either way, as I’m not religious and history is not a strong point of mine) , My point was not a right or wrong Issue per se, it was more related to faith and truth rather than fact.

As far as I’m concerned Rick or anyone could espouse the most wonderfully incorrect nonsense going and still not have to justify it to anyone so long as it’s not harm doing.


I’m not disputing faith. I’m disputing the claim that something is a historical fact when it isn’t a fact. Incorrect claims, even seemingly innocent ones that are made without malice, can often lead to unpredictable and harmful outcomes. Especially when attached to strong views on something.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Sandford1981
February 18, 2021, 4:08pm
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The little things 7/10

Kern County Deputy Sheriff Joe Deacon is sent to Los Angeles for what should have been a quick evidence-gathering assignment. Instead, he becomes embroiled in the search for a serial killer who is terrorizing the city.

Pacing and editing issues but if you can suspend your belief enough there’s a decent enough movie in there. Denzel is likeable as always and Jared Leto is good again.


“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
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Sandford1981
February 18, 2021, 9:03pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
The Dig.

Story of the discovery of Sutton Hoo on the eve of the second world war. It's one of those genteel British films that I can take or leave, but I enjoyed it a lot. It's a fascinating story and if you like history as I do, it's recommended.

8/10


Just finished this Ginny. I’ve gone 9/10. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks


“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
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ginnywings
February 18, 2021, 10:09pm

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Quoted from Sandford1981


Just finished this Ginny. I’ve gone 9/10. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks


Glad you enjoyed it.
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Withnail
February 20, 2021, 9:08pm
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Just stumbled across this thread and had to add my penny's worth after seeing a reference to Early Doors.

I missed this wonderful comedy when it was first broadcast as I was living in Oz at the time.

A friend introduced me to it about 10 years ago and I thought it was bloody marvellous with some hilarious characters, not to mention their catch phrases such as Tommy "I'll stay on me own..."

I in turn introduced my brother in law to Early Doors who now says it's his favourite comedy of all time.

He traveled up from his home in Somerset to see the live show in Manchester which he described as one of the best nights of his life.

I learnt to love the Royle Family, despite not appreciating it when it first came out, as I was in my early 20s, so it was all about going out rather than watching TV, let alone watching people watch TV!

I think Early Doors pips RF for me though.

I was weighing up my 3 favourite comedy series and couldnt whittle it down, so had to go with my top 5 instead - see what you think...

Alan Partridge, The Office, Phoenix Nights, Early Doors, Peep Show.

Saxondale and Curb Your Enthusiasm almost made the cut, as did Royle Family.

Quite interesting that three of my top five are based in the North West, as are two of the three of my 'best of the rest'.

On to films...the last couple I really enjoyed at the cinema were Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri and 1917.

Really enjoyed '71 as someone else mentioned and rewatched some of my all time favourites over Christmas - Trainspotting, Withnail and I, Apocalypse Now, The Departed and OJ Made in America (on iPlayer), a series of documentary film, which won an Oscar.

All the President's Men (iPlayer) is definitely worth a watch if you've not seen it, as are Gran Torino, La Haine, The Boxer and Crazy Heart.
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Withnail
February 20, 2021, 9:19pm
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Another film which I probably wouldn't have chosen to have seen at the flicks at the time were it not for a young lady...was Brokeback Mountain. How that didn't clear up at the Oscar's and win best picture is a joke.
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Rick12
February 21, 2021, 9:23am
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Quoted from KingstonMariner

My advice would be to drop the claim that there is historical evidence for Jesus until you can come up with some real evidence. Your faith should be enough for you. You don’t need to justify your BELIEFS to me. The fact that I don’t think there is any historical evidence for Jesus does not mean that I don’t have any belief in him. I just don’t like claims that something is provable when it isn’t. Claims like that lead to all sorts of entanglements and trouble.

There’s more historical evidence for the Trojan War, King Arthur and Robin Hood (though not necessarily as the stories tell us) but they are far from accepted as fact by historians. Do I believe those things happened? Possibly yes. Would I be happy if they were proven true. Yes (maybe not the Trojan War bit because that would be unrelenting misery). Would I be happy if Jesus was proven to be a historical character anything like as good as the stories? Yes. Even if he was ‘just a good man’.
I am genuinely glad you have some faith in Jesus. I think the biggest example of Jesus's presence can be seen though  by his actions  and the testimony he left behind. Trying to create a better society  for everyone through love for all and a belief in a higher power. Its why there are over 2.3 billion followers of Christianity in the world today. Likewise science confirms this view as well. If a child  doesn't get love in the catchment age of
approximately 0-11 years their brains will forever be impaired.

History has been one of man trying to understand what created the universe. Some think its chance whilst the majority in polls have some sort of belief in the  divine.

Guru Nanak and the Sikh religion is the newest of the worlds main religions started in 1500 CE. He was another one who expressed similar sentiments to Jesus. Ive seen this as well as stated before in another thread. A Sikh maths teacher I had in collage was a cut above any teacher/lecturers I ever had . He had  a strong belief in God and tried living a good life.

One of the best concrete example of religions in my view which we can see today is the Native American view. They believe in a divine creator "Wakantanka" .Their whole belief stems largely around worshipping  and living in harmony  with planet earth and worshipping the divine. Granted there aren't that many followers left due to the way they were treated in history but some descendants of Native Americans still try to follow the old way.

I think there is some truth in all religions and I try to take something from every one.


One life,one love .
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Sandford1981
February 21, 2021, 12:32pm
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Kingston / Rick - Could I make a suggestion to start a religious thread where this discussion can carry on without it diluting film chat?


“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
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