Film Club

Quoted from Sandford1981

To me religious faith by its very definition is believing In something in spite of little or no evidence to support that belief.

I am not religious and agree with the majority of what you are saying but really Rick doesn’t have to justify his faith by providing evidence. It is his truth and that’s what’s important at the end of the day, if having faith helps people get by or makes someone a better person then perhaps that’s all the ‘evidence’ required.

Quoted from Rick12

As noted Ive spoken to highly educated people in this area that have cited this fact .And yes Ive glossed over some archaeological studies in full by biblical archaeologists.Likewise Ive read a fair few books on the subject  by biblical non religious/religious historians/scholars  which are both New York times bestsellers that all support the case that Jesus existed.

[so something must be true because it was a best seller?! Come on man, you don’t seriously think that! There have been NO archaeologists who who said ‘you know what, we have proof that Jesus Christ existed and the Gospels are true. That would be THE sensation of the age. And archaeologists are apt to weave stories out of not much more than a few patches of darker earth.]

Its actually earlier . My apology's. These letters written by Paul were approximately twenty to thirty years after the generally accepted time period for the death of Jesus, around AD 30–36.

[apologies, you have me there on the alleged dating of Paul’s letters, assuming that they were written when claimed. And Paul had a particular view of the Jesus story that wasn’t accepted by all followers of Jesus until after Constantine imposed the Nicene Creed on everyone in the Roman Empire and persecuted folk with other views.]

Fair point but the fact remains it was all based on the impact of one man Jesus that tried to something good in his society at that time.

[just because the story is about a good man/said n of god doesn’t mean it’s true. Great story though it is, surely THE best ever, it does not mean it’s true. LOTR is a cracking story but it is fantasy]

Iam no expert but heres a few .Tactictus and Pliny the Younger .

[which works of Tacitus and Pliny reference Jesus? You might be no expert, I can accept that. Therefore without proper references, how can anyone take your word for it? Yes, I’m prepared to accept YOU BELIEVE it’s true, but claiming that that is the same as historical fact is not just going too far, but misleading.]

No but shes the head of our country and being a big royalist someone I respect and admire .

[hey, I have great respect for my late mother, but I don’t think she was right on lots of things]

Its not stupid though Kingston its facing  facts especially for the case of whether Jesus existed or not from the position of whether the majority of modern day historians believed this .I think your the one who is a bit naive here. Granted apart from the bible what we have is little in the way of other evidence but there are Jesus's earliest disciples and followers of them that were prepared to give up their lives and martyred in horrific circumstances"torn to pieces by lions and stoned to death" for the message Jesus gave when he was alive.Again this is backed up by ancient documents.

[many people believed in Hitler and gave up their lives for his cause. Doesn’t make it right. I use that example purely to show the lack of logic in your argument. I’m not equating Jesus to Hitler.]

I think you need to look at the broader issue.As noted Ive spoken to people who have specialised in this area as a job all their working lives and are now retired and there in a position to understand the issue of who Jesus was far better than you or me.Hence unless you have a masters and Phd in this area I suggest you should respect  these people a bit more as they've invested far more time and energy in this field of expertise than you or I have ever done

[So tell me who these people where that you’ve spoken to that understand the historicity of Jesus. They wouldn’t be non-historians would they?].

Quoted from KingstonMariner

He bloody well does when he claims it is historical fact! If not where do you draw the line?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

See above refutations of your arguments. Now I’m not knocking your faith. You can believe what you believe. And of all the things to believe in, the version of Jesus passed on in the accepted Gospels is a great thing to believe in. Believing in that DESPITE the lack of evidence might even have a great wisdom behind it if you accept the lack of evidence. But if you are claiming that people’s strong faith is the same as historical evidence then you are either confused or deliberately trying to mislead. I think better if you than that you are trying to mislead.

I’d have more respect if you accepted that no one has found any real evidence but that you still had faith, but that you said that you believed there was a deeper truth.