Film Club

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I’m not disagreeing about the positive aspects of religion/some religious people, but which serious historians agree Jesus Christ existed? Bearing in mind proper historians base what they write on critically appraised written evidence.....

Serious historians like you say are ones that base everything on hard evidence. Loosely speaking Bart Ehrman (non biblical scholar and historian )  who is agnostic is the one that most springs to mind.Likewise from what I read loosely via books and articles all confirm most historians believe Jesus existed. Similarly ancient documents within 50-60 years of Jesus death were being written  about Jesus. Bear in mind though that literacy levels were low in Jesus time and everything was based on oral tradition. Likewise speaking to teachers in the past who have specialised in this area eg history/religion Ive been told there is more evidence for Jesus than a lot of ancient figures in history.

I think like anything your going to get some doubters though that think Jesus never existed but these are in the minority and quite frankly I feel not with it.Hence you get people nowadays that believe in aliens/ghosts.

Another point as your most likely aware is our own calendar is based on the death of Jesus eg 2022 Ad since Jesus died. Interesting to note as well that our current Queen of England cites Jesus Christ as the person  she's looked to most for help her in her duties as a royal:

her broadcast in Christmas  2000 was devoted to an account of Christ’s life and teaching which, she said,

“provide a framework in which I try to lead my life”.

Quoted from Rick12

Serious historians like you say are ones that base everything on hard evidence.Bart Ehrman (archaeological biblical historian)  who is agnostic is the one that most springs to mind.Likewise from what I read loosely via books and articles all confirm most historians believe Jesus existed. Similarly ancient documents within 50-60 years of Jesus death were being written  about Jesus. Bear in mind though that literacy levels were low in Jesus time and everything was based on oral tradition. Likewise speaking to teachers in the past who have specialised in this area eg history/religion Ive been told there is more evidence for Jesus than a lot of ancient figures in history.

I think like anything your going to get some doubters though that think Jesus never existed but these are in the minority and quite frankly I feel not with it.Hence you get people nowadays that believe in aliens/ghosts.

Another point as your most likely aware is our own calendar is based on the death of Jesus eg 2022 Ad since Jesus died. Interesting to note as well that our current Queen of England cites Jesus Christ as the person  she's looked to most for help her in her duties as a royal:

her broadcast in Christmas  2000 was devoted to an account of Christ’s life and teaching which, she said,

“provide a framework in which I try to lead my life”.

So something you’ve ‘loosely read’ ‘all confirm most historians believe Jesus existed’??? So you haven’t even properly read the articles which you claim claim something done by suppose any of these historians cite contemporary evidence?

Documents written 50-60 years later. I don’t suppose that all these documents you refer to were the New Testament 😆.

You’re really letting the side down when you start citing the fact we use a dating system based on the supposed birth of someone for whom there is no contemporary evidence of. The society that adopted this dating system was avowedly Christian. Hardly evidence. And that dating system came in 100s of years after the claimed birth of their claimed founder. No one is even certain that Dionysius Exiguous got the year right! Not the most reliable witness of something that supposedly happened 100s of years before.

Can you name any ancient historical figures for whom there is less evidence of than Jesus?

And you also portray the Queen as some sort of historical expert. I wasn’t aware of her getting a chair at Oxford.

Look mate, if you believe, believe. That’s fine. Follow the teachings. That’s even better. But don’t come out with crap about there being a lot of evidence or stating that most historians say he existed. You just make yourself look stupid.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So something you’ve ‘loosely read’ ‘all confirm most historians believe Jesus existed’??? So you haven’t even properly read the articles which you claim claim something done by suppose any of these historians cite contemporary evidence?

Documents written 50-60 years later. I don’t suppose that all these documents you refer to were the New Testament 😆.

You’re really letting the side down when you start citing the fact we use a dating system based on the supposed birth of someone for whom there is no contemporary evidence of. The society that adopted this dating system was avowedly Christian. Hardly evidence. And that dating system came in 100s of years after the claimed birth of their claimed founder. No one is even certain that Dionysius Exiguous got the year right! Not the most reliable witness of something that supposedly happened 100s of years before.

Can you name any ancient historical figures for whom there is less evidence of than Jesus?

And you also portray the Queen as some sort of historical expert. I wasn’t aware of her getting a chair at Oxford.

Look mate, if you believe, believe. That’s fine. Follow the teachings. That’s even better. But don’t come out with crap about there being a lot of evidence or stating that most historians say he existed. You just make yourself look stupid.

To me religious faith by its very definition is believing In something in spite of little or no evidence to support that belief.

I am not religious and agree with the majority of what you are saying but really Rick doesn’t have to justify his faith by providing evidence. It is his truth and that’s what’s important at the end of the day, if having faith helps people get by or makes someone a better person then perhaps that’s all the ‘evidence’ required.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So something you’ve ‘loosely read’ ‘all confirm most historians believe Jesus existed’??? So you haven’t even properly read the articles which you claim claim something done by suppose any of these historians cite contemporary evidence?

.

As noted Ive spoken to highly educated people in this area that have cited this fact .And yes Ive glossed over some archaeological studies in full by biblical archaeologists.Likewise Ive read a fair few books on the subject  by biblical non religious/religious historians/scholars  which are both New York times bestsellers that all support the case that Jesus existed.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Documents written 50-60 years later. I don’t suppose that all these documents you refer to were the New Testament 😆.

Its actually earlier . My apology's. These letters written by Paul were approximately twenty to thirty years after the generally accepted time period for the death of Jesus, around AD 30–36.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You’re really letting the side down when you start citing the fact we use a dating system based on the supposed birth of someone for whom there is no contemporary evidence of. The society that adopted this dating system was avowedly Christian. Hardly evidence. And that dating system came in 100s of years after the claimed birth of their claimed founder. No one is even certain that Dionysius Exiguous got the year right! Not the most reliable witness of something that supposedly happened 100s of years before.

.

Fair point but the fact remains it was all based on the impact of one man Jesus that tried to something good in his society at that time.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Can you name any ancient historical figures for whom there is less evidence of than Jesus?

.

Iam no expert but heres a few .Tactictus and Pliny the Younger .

Quoted from KingstonMariner

And you also portray the Queen as some sort of historical expert. I wasn’t aware of her getting a chair at Oxford.
.

No but shes the head of our country and being a big royalist someone I respect and admire .

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Look mate, if you believe, believe. That’s fine. Follow the teachings. That’s even better. But don’t come out with crap  or stating that most historians say he existed. You just make yourself look stupid.

Its not stupid though Kingston its facing  facts especially for the case of whether Jesus existed or not from the position of whether the majority of modern day historians believed this .I think your the one who is a bit naive here. Granted apart from the bible what we have is little in the way of other evidence but there are Jesus's earliest disciples and followers of them that were prepared to give up their lives and martyred in horrific circumstances"torn to pieces by lions and stoned to death" for the message Jesus gave when he was alive.Again this is backed up by ancient documents.

I think you need to look at the broader issue.As noted Ive spoken to people who have specialised in this area as a job all their working lives and are now retired and there in a position to understand the issue of who Jesus was far better than you or me.Hence unless you have a masters and Phd in this area I suggest you should respect  these people a bit more as they've invested far more time and energy in this field of expertise than you or I have ever done.

I rewatched ‘Dead Man’s Shoes‘ last night. What a film, it is 1 of more favourite films so I am rather biased but 9/10.

A disaffected soldier returns to his hometown to get even with the thugs who brutalized his mentally-challenged brother years ago.

There is one particular scene that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. Some of the dark humour is brilliant.

Shane Meadows and Paddy Considine are brilliant writers and directors.
Got me in the mood to dust off ‘A Room for Romeo Brass’.

I rewatched ‘Dead Man’s Shoes‘ last night. What a film, it is 1 of more favourite films so I am rather biased but 9/10.

A disaffected soldier returns to his hometown to get even with the thugs who brutalized his mentally-challenged brother years ago.

There is one particular scene that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. Some of the dark humour is brilliant.

Shane Meadows and Paddy Considine are brilliant writers and directors.
Got me in the mood to dust off ‘A Room for Romeo Brass’.

Quoted from Sandford1981

I rewatched ‘Dead Man’s Shoes‘ last night. What a film, it is 1 of more favourite films so I am rather biased but 9/10.

A disaffected soldier returns to his hometown to get even with the thugs who brutalized his mentally-challenged brother years ago.

There is one particular scene that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. Some of the dark humour is brilliant.

Shane Meadows and Paddy Considine are brilliant writers and directors.
Got me in the mood to dust off ‘A Room for Romeo Brass’.

Yes Ive seen dead mans shoes .Powerful film.

I remember being impressed by Shane Meadows a few years back and buying a few of his films including " "twenty four seven.". I remember at the time liking the British  angle he gave on his films.Hence a lot of his films were quite gritty and it was nice to see something directed by a quality British film director as opposed to the  large majority of  American films which I had seen on terrestrial tv .

Quoted from Rick12

a lot of his films were quite gritty and it was nice to see something directed by a quality British film director as opposed to the  large majority of  American films which I had seen

This was exactly it for me-it’s easy to be seduced by the glitz and glamour of Hollywood and this opened my eyes to a world outside it, which produced great films without the huge budgets and fanfare.

I enjoyed ‘twentyfourseven’ too and the lesser known ‘Somers Town’ is a good watch also.

Considine has made 2 of his own films in ‘Tyrannosaur’ and ‘Journeyman’ which I think are amazing works. Well worth a look if you haven’t seen them already.

The Company You Keep (2012)

After a journalist discovers his identity, a former Weather Underground activist goes on the run. Robert Redford and Shia LeBeouf among others in a good cast.

Decent watch
7/10

'71. (Released 2014)

Film about the troubles in Northern Ireland. Soldier gets separated from his unit in a Irish nationalist area and has to survive.

Very gritty and realistic.

I liked it immensely.

8/10