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 lew chaterleys lover |
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OK I will say it just one more time.
It’s different because of the context in which it was used.
By displaying the banner just as the players were taking the knee they were clearly challenging the concept of BLM and the players’ protest. If not, why go to the expense and trouble of flying it over the ground at exactly that time?
That makes it racist. It doesn’t have to break laws to be racist in it’s intent. It was deliberately confrontational and inflammatory and making excuses for it is in effect condoning it.
I will say it one more time. You are wrong on every count. Had it been racist he would have been cautioned by the police. No crime racist or otherwise was committed. You seem to be confusing being confrontational with racism. It doesn't work like that. He intended to make a point at the most provocative moment to highlight his case which is fair enough as any campaigner would do the same, including black lives matter. You seem to be bizarrely saying that every alternative view is racist. |
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| AussieMariner |
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The issue with the taking of the knee and the PL is lip service, its a product viewed by millions. Why wasnt the opportunity to take the knee made to the FL..or have i missed something. I wasnt aware that taking the knee was a protest, more of a solidarity movement, but please correct me if i wrong.
Do you think if our league was 'live' at present, and fans were in the stadium that this would go ahead? Do you think it would be supported unanimously...its lip service being played out to protect a product to empty stadiums were fans cannot voice opposition.
I agree it probably is lip service. But that’s not what the banner said. And I agree that it is not supported unanimously - if it were there would be no point in doing it would there? I am simply responding to those who disagreed with the posters who nominated the banner for TWOTW by making excuses for it and saying that it is not racist. It is, and it was intended to be. |
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| TheRonRaffertyFanClub |
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OK I will say it just one more time.
It’s different because of the context in which it was used.
By displaying the banner just as the players were taking the knee they were clearly challenging the concept of BLM and the players’ protest. If not, why go to the expense and trouble of flying it over the ground at exactly that time?
That makes it racist. It doesn’t have to break laws to be racist in it’s intent. It was deliberately confrontational and inflammatory and making excuses for it is in effect condoning it.
So what you are saying is that any comment, banner, spoken word, or even post on a forum that is felt to express a challenge to BLM is inherently racist? Do you really mean that? The logic seems far removed from reality. |
| “If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty." |
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| AussieMariner |
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So what you are saying is that any comment, banner, spoken word, or even post on a forum that is felt to express a challenge to BLM is inherently racist?
Do you really mean that? The logic seems far removed from reality.
No I’m saying that that banner at that place at that time was inherently racist. Whether other comments are racist or not depends on their content and context. |
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| TheRonRaffertyFanClub |
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No I’m saying that that banner at that place at that time was inherently racist. Whether other comments are racist or not depends on their content and context.
Then logically, an action that precipitated a banner is also racist as it was clearly confrontational enough to cause someone to go to the time and expense of the banner. Other comments etc. do not depend on context, I with they did but they are deemed racist if the reader/recipient considers them such. There is no absolute standard and there lies an issue. The whole problem arises from the naivety of Roy Jenkins in 1976 who was entranced by the notions of discrimination laws in parts of the US and left our law full of holes that have never been filled. In fact they are being widened. |
| “If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty." |
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| Sir Matt Tease |
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I agree it probably is lip service. But that’s not what the banner said.
And I agree that it is not supported unanimously - if it were there would be no point in doing it would there?
I am simply responding to those who disagreed with the posters who nominated the banner for TWOTW by making excuses for it and saying that it is not racist. It is, and it was intended to be.
You need to re-read the original post that got you so excited. At no point did I make excuses for it and I did not say it was not racist, I asked what the difference was ? |
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| barralad |
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"Why do black footballers get stopped in their expensive cars and asked how they afford them when white footballers don’t?"
Do you know that to be true, or do just the black players make noise about it accusing them of being racist when maybe the police are wondering how somebody so young has the money to buy such an expensive car. It doesn't happen often to black players, and I will bet any amount that white players have been stopped too and just not said anything.
"Why are there so few blacks in football management when there are so many black players?"
A huge portion of black players are from foreign countries. After making millions in the game, why would they want to stick around for another 30 years in a country with miserable weather when they could go home and be with their families? Black managers have had some good opportunities and failed miserably, if they'd even been ok, they'd have got subsequent jobs and be on the merry-go-round.
Actually the amount of black players is completely disproportionate to the make up of society. Doesn't your theory of equality and representation mean that we need to remove the number of black players in teams so that there's only 3% black players in this country? No? Didn't think so, because that in itself is racist, giving people an opportunity only because of the colour of their skin and not because of their ability.
I can quote discriminatory things where people have only got jobs because they're of some ethnic minority to make up the numbers rather than based on their ability. There was a case in the police a few years ago where a guy took them to court because he was better than the black person through all stages of the promotion process, but the black person ticked a different box. Positive discrimination is just as wrong...
We can all quote examples to back up our point but what is the source? Very often it's a friend of a friend urban myth. One of my jobs was dealing with complaints from the public about DSS benefitS. If I had a pound for everyone who quoted me the all migrants get a car, mobile phone and other "perks" I'd have retired a very rich person. Almost invariably the letters began "My friend lives next door to.... Oh and I'm sure you are aware that positive discrimination is illegal in this country. There is a world of difference between what you describe and the advertising that applications for jobs by people of ethnic backgrounds will be welcomed. |
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Joseph Joubert. |
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| codcheeky |
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The statement in itself is absolutely no more racist than black lives matter. The intention of the people who did it is most likely racist, but did come just after 3 white people were murdered from a racist attack. You can call it terrorism, but it's Muslim people deliberately killing white people in this country multiple times.
Black people have not been targeted for murder in this country by another sect in a long time.
I take exception to institutionalalised racism comments. I don't believe that to be true in the UK. There are groups of racist idiots from all races, but everybody has an equal opportunity here. It's just difficult for people to break out of the life they're born into, regardless of race. Black people used to be discriminated against, but they have the opportunity to work their way up the ladder nowadays.
If you do not believe in institutional racism you are at odds with every study and government report into it in this country. Every set of figures shows the U K to be institutionally racist. That many like you refuse to accept it because it is uncomfortable and do not want to see it is the problem and why the BLM movement exists. No we are not like the USA but less racist is still racist and nothing to be proud of. |
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| lew chaterleys lover |
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If you do not believe in institutional racism you are at odds with every study and government report into it in this country. Every set of figures shows the U K to be institutionally racist.
That many like you refuse to accept it because it is uncomfortable and do not want to see it is the problem and why the BLM movement exists. No we are not like the USA but less racist is still racist and nothing to be proud of.
The trouble with the UK is that too many people in it are far too critical of every aspect of life, both current and in terms of our history. How can the UK be instiutionally racist when we have become so diverse and as other posters have said we have BAME people at the top of every field? I see people and reports saying that ethnic minorities should have more representation; but we are still a predominantly white country and as their name suggests they are in the minority, which presumably means they will be in the minority in any field you care to mention. There is nothing wrong being in a minority. Too much emphasis is put on it in my view. If I moved to another country to retire I would be in a minority but so what? I am often in the minority within my own household for christ's sake. What would be nice to hear is people media and government talking about the whole of the UK, including all its different cultures and races and treating us as one population instead of creating differences by appealing to different sections of society all the time. We should be one United Kingdom under the law of the land all treated equally and leave it at that. |
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| Squinter |
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If you do not believe in institutional racism you are at odds with every study and government report into it in this country. Every set of figures shows the U K to be institutionally racist.
That many like you refuse to accept it because it is uncomfortable and do not want to see it is the problem and why the BLM movement exists. No we are not like the USA but less racist is still racist and nothing to be proud of.
Yes I agree, there is racism in the UK, but maybe not to the extent that the BLM movement would like us to think. However it is not one way traffic, how can there be a BLM protest one day, then a couple of days later there is a riot in Brixton were 22 police officers were injured ? I've seen the images and the vast majority of offenders were black. |
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lew chaterleys lover
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