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At last, we are officially out of the EU tonight.

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promotion plaice
January 31, 2020, 11:02pm

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And about time, don't believe all the scare mongering, they need us as much as we need them.


When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?”
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Maringer
January 31, 2020, 11:58pm
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They really don't.

They would certainly like to have a close relationship with us with as few changes as possible to reduce any damage to the EU economy but, ultimately, we're no longer members of the club so expect the negotiations to reflect this. The integrity of the EU and Single Market as a whole is of much, much more importance than their relationship with us

We've got 11 months now for those who promised us Brexit would be a great success to come up with a free trade deal with the EU which doesn't damage our economy too much. It's pretty much an impossibility given the complexities of the relationship and the decades we've been linked together. If the rhetoric from Johnson, Gove and Co is anything but bluff (and it has to be bluff because they can't be that stupid otherwise?), it's going to be a tricky year.

If you've got the time, here's a good run down of the problems we'll have in getting even a basic trade deal done, especially in the time limit Johnson has foolishly imposed on us:

https://www.politics.co.uk/blo.....about-johnson-s-trad

First time I can recall that I've been on this forum for weeks with too much going on at work and at home to consider it. Doubt I've missed much because, despite lots of promises to the contrary, Johnson's government really hasn't done much. Probably the laziest Prime Minister we've ever had.

Anyway, I only hope that the negotiators somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat or the EU goes gentle on us because otherwise, it will be a fraught year, even if nothing materially changes until after the transition period. I'd imagine the rhetoric around fishing will indicate the direction of travel. A big politicial issue in both the UK and the EU so that will set the scene for the rest of the negotiations. If we don't pretty much agree to the status quo after the initial sabre rattling, I'd be amazed and appalled because that will lead to almost everything else off the table for us for the important bits of our economy.
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aldi_01
February 1, 2020, 8:55am

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11 months now of cryarsing from those negotiating on our behalf because the EU won’t play nicely...


'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
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lew chaterleys lover
February 1, 2020, 9:45am
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Quoted from Maringer
They really don't.

They would certainly like to have a close relationship with us with as few changes as possible to reduce any damage to the EU economy but, ultimately, we're no longer members of the club so expect the negotiations to reflect this. The integrity of the EU and Single Market as a whole is of much, much more importance than their relationship with us

We've got 11 months now for those who promised us Brexit would be a great success to come up with a free trade deal with the EU which doesn't damage our economy too much. It's pretty much an impossibility given the complexities of the relationship and the decades we've been linked together. If the rhetoric from Johnson, Gove and Co is anything but bluff (and it has to be bluff because they can't be that stupid otherwise?), it's going to be a tricky year.

If you've got the time, here's a good run down of the problems we'll have in getting even a basic trade deal done, especially in the time limit Johnson has foolishly imposed on us:

https://www.politics.co.uk/blo.....about-johnson-s-trad

First time I can recall that I've been on this forum for weeks with too much going on at work and at home to consider it. Doubt I've missed much because, despite lots of promises to the contrary, Johnson's government really hasn't done much. Probably the laziest Prime Minister we've ever had.

Anyway, I only hope that the negotiators somehow pull a rabbit out of a hat or the EU goes gentle on us because otherwise, it will be a fraught year, even if nothing materially changes until after the transition period. I'd imagine the rhetoric around fishing will indicate the direction of travel. A big politicial issue in both the UK and the EU so that will set the scene for the rest of the negotiations. If we don't pretty much agree to the status quo after the initial sabre rattling, I'd be amazed and appalled because that will lead to almost everything else off the table for us for the important bits of our economy.


You have been wrong on pretty much everything so far with your droning anti UK and anti Conservative party monologues so I expect this one to go the same way.

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KingstonMariner
February 1, 2020, 10:44am
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How has he been wrong? We’re not properly out yet. We’ve just moved from being a rule maker to being a rule taker for the next 11 months.

Fishing or finance? Hmmm! I wonder how that’s going to go.


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Maringer
February 1, 2020, 11:01am
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You have been wrong on pretty much everything so far with your droning anti UK and anti Conservative party monologues so I expect this one to go the same way.



And this is one of the reasons I've not tried to find the time for this forum. I made a post containing some opinions, backed it up with a link to some information (and with every post I make on this forum), yet you leave a content-free response. Trying to play the man, not the ball to use football parlance.

Are you confident that the government can succeed in these negotiations given the difficulties pointed out in the linked page? If so, tell us why.

Johnson has repeatedly insisted that there won't be any additional paperwork for shipments to and from NI which simply isn't true. He's either ignorant or simply lying. Probably both. With these people in charge of the show and foolishly limiting the negotiating time-limit to 11 months, even the most ardent Brexiteer should be very worried about where we are heading.
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28195
February 1, 2020, 11:31am
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So at the age of 48 after all my life I’m no longer a European, my rights have been taken away together with an economic freedom in the biggest global free market.

Yet, I’m still not aware of what benefits this will have?

Listened to the political drivel last night talking how we need to heal our divided society? Yes, that is correct but it was those same politicians who triggered this mess over 4 years ago and created the divisions that didn’t exist.

Celebrate Brexit day but you have been conned. Rule Britannia.
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Marinerz93
February 1, 2020, 1:24pm

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Despite the constant moaning, despite the constant know it all's trying to undermine democracy, and despite all the hysterics and fear mongering.

Finally



Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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Ipswin
February 1, 2020, 2:12pm
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Quoted from 28195
So at the age of 48 after all my life I’m no longer a European, my rights have been taken away together with an economic freedom in the biggest global free market.

Yet, I’m still not aware of what benefits this will have?




Which is the reason why, once it is known exactly what effect (benefits or otherwise) leaving will have, the opinion of the people (who voted in the first referendum without knowing what leaving would entail) should have been sought a second time.

Personally I doubt it will have any benefits, I expect us to get totally screwed unless we roll over on fishing. It won't matter to me at my advanced age but it sure has screwed it up for my grand kids. Taking back our 'sovereignty' will mean nowt if the economy is copulated



On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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grimsby pete
February 1, 2020, 2:55pm

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Regarding the fishing rights who will go out to sea in all weather's working all hours from today's youth. ?

Most of them just want to go to uni or have a 9 to 5 job.

The experienced fishermen like my brother in law are far too old now.

We still get plenty of fish coming through Grimsby so use it as a bargaining point.


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28195
February 1, 2020, 6:03pm
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I do hope Grimsby and the Humber get something out of it, the idea of a free trade zone in the ports could stimulate growth or manufacturing. My ancestors migrated to Grimsby from other parts of the UK and World due to its success.. Let’s hope this area can be great again for the future.
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Maringer
February 1, 2020, 6:08pm
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Pete, if you read that link, you'll see that it mentions that we don't eat 80% of the fish in our waters. We just don't want them so most are currently exported to the EU. If we apply the 200 mile exclusion zone (as is our right), what are we going to do with these extra fish which we catch? The EU will impose huge tariffs so unlikely they will have them. Are we suddenly going to start eating the stuff that we currently won't touch with a bargepole?

You're probably quite right about people actually wanting to go to sea. I've read that lots of boats up in Scotland for example are crewed by Philippinos and Vietnamese - some of them are pretty much enslaved by unscrupulous skippers.
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KingstonMariner
February 1, 2020, 6:41pm
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I wouldn’t mind these Brexiteers if they were at least honest about the downside. But no it’s all going to be rosey apparently. Clueless or lying?


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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grimsby pete
February 1, 2020, 7:26pm

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Quoted from Maringer
Pete, if you read that link, you'll see that it mentions that we don't eat 80% of the fish in our waters. We just don't want them so most are currently exported to the EU. If we apply the 200 mile exclusion zone (as is our right), what are we going to do with these extra fish which we catch? The EU will impose huge tariffs so unlikely they will have them. Are we suddenly going to start eating the stuff that we currently won't touch with a bargepole?

You're probably quite right about people actually wanting to go to sea. I've read that lots of boats up in Scotland for example are crewed by Philippinos and Vietnamese - some of them are pretty much enslaved by unscrupulous skippers.


That was my point Grimsby people do not want to go to sea now so use the fishing grounds as a bargaining point.Fish will still come to Grimsby so no workers will lose their jobs
The EU will then concede another point that we want but they don't want to give us so it's a win win they are happy they can catch fish in our waters and we are happy because we could not catch all the fish anyway plus the EU have given us one of our demands.

All will be well on the end.



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Marinerz93
February 1, 2020, 8:28pm

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Quoted from KingstonMariner
I wouldn’t mind these Brexiteers if they were at least honest about the downside. But no it’s all going to be rosey apparently. Clueless or lying?



No doubt there are going to be good and bad times, but for once I'd like the remainers to take their heads out of the EU's bottom and admit Britain didn't vote to join a political union when it voted to join a common market, had it stayed a common market we wouldn't be were we are now.

The common market was hijacked by charlatans who wanted all the power and none of the accountability, I'm glad we are out because it certainly wasn't rosy for the likes of all fishing towns all over the UK, the EU's fishing quota's crippled Grimsby. This may have not touched your life but it certainly touched the lives of thousands of people living and working in Grimsby, putting scores of fish merchants out of business and fishermen out of work and other trades that depended on the fishing trade. I know at least one fish merchant who took his own life because of the financial ruin the EU brought his business.

Clueeless and lying can be aimed at both sides of the debate but only one side has consistently lost, now conceded defeat on get on Boris stonking majority you remoaners helped create.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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Bawmariner
February 2, 2020, 12:29am
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Quoted from Marinerz93



No doubt there are going to be good and bad times, but for once I'd like the remainers to take their heads out of the EU's bottom and admit Britain didn't vote to join a political union when it voted to join a common market, had it stayed a common market we wouldn't be were we are now.

The common market was hijacked by charlatans who wanted all the power and none of the accountability, I'm glad we are out because it certainly wasn't rosy for the likes of all fishing towns all over the UK, the EU's fishing quota's crippled Grimsby. This may have not touched your life but it certainly touched the lives of thousands of people living and working in Grimsby, putting scores of fish merchants out of business and fishermen out of work and other trades that depended on the fishing trade. I know at least one fish merchant who took his own life because of the financial ruin the EU brought his business.

Clueeless and lying can be aimed at both sides of the debate but only one side has consistently lost, now conceded defeat on get on Boris stonking majority you remoaners helped create.


So if the common market is fine why are we leaving the customs union. This was in place when we joined the EEC so why don't we just revert back to that? We would have to accept rules as part of being part of a customs union but that is a reality that can't be avoided. If you want to be part of trade blocks and agreements you need rules in place so the other side can trust you.

The fishing into Grimsby was in decline long before we joined the EEC. The cod wars really did for it. What was left was taken to pieces by a mix of EU laws de-industrialisation of the UK and our elected EU representatives not standing up for the UK. The fishing industry isn't coming back though with or without EU laws.
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Marinerz93
February 2, 2020, 12:01pm

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Quoted from Bawmariner


So if the common market is fine why are we leaving the customs union. This was in place when we joined the EEC so why don't we just revert back to that? We would have to accept rules as part of being part of a customs union but that is a reality that can't be avoided. If you want to be part of trade blocks and agreements you need rules in place so the other side can trust you.

The fishing into Grimsby was in decline long before we joined the EEC. The cod wars really did for it. What was left was taken to pieces by a mix of EU laws de-industrialisation of the UK and our elected EU representatives not standing up for the UK. The fishing industry isn't coming back though with or without EU laws.


Under the common market was there freedom of movement of people or was that just implemented when we had our sovereignty given away without our consent with the federalization of Europe.

I know the cod wars and government of the times incompetence caused the most damage to our fishing fleet but you missed out that the money for scrapping trawlers from the EU offered to UK trawler owners was very attractive and coupled with the cutting of quota's it was becoming more and more difficult for the trawler owners to turn a profit, EU wanted our fishing grounds and under CFP they achieved that.

If you knew anything about how the quota's effected what was left of our fishing fleet you would know that under the quota's imposed by the EU on the UK,  fisherman would often go to see and come back for almost nothing as the trawler fuel costs and maintenance meant anything caught went to pay for that which left next to nothing for the crew as they had to throw back fish they could have ordinarily sold, not all of it had to go back as some fish species are naturally smaller than others, but EU net sizes have to be obeyed. That's why it was more attractive to get a massive lump sum from the EU and scrap the trawler than sail it. No doubt some of the trawler owners were greedy but that greed was facilitated by your glorious EU who knew what it meant or didn't care what happened to those who it effected.

By the way what protection did the righteous EU offer those in the fish trade as it cut the quota's which they did several times and from working in the industry I saw how each round of cuts effected the fish market as I was on it every morning for at least 2 years before I quickly realised the way things were going that if I didn't find work outside the fish trade I and many like me would end up on the dole which did happen to those who stayed in the main.

Many of the UK’s fish stocks are now shared, so it means the UK will still have to cooperate with the EU, and other coastal states (such as Norway and the Faroe Islands) in managing that. It's common knowledge that the UK fishing fleet currently lacks the necessary trawlers to catch all the fish in the UK shared zone, it would still likely have to permit foreign vessels access to catch any surplus fish stocks and this could be negotiated in a we give you permits and we can sell our fish in your markets too. If / When we build back up our own fishing fleet then we can negotiate either higher costs for permits or catch our own and the more we can catch and sell it within the UK, bearing in mind the cheaper fish becomes and that can only be a good thing for restaurants / chippy's.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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KingstonMariner
February 2, 2020, 10:42pm
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So why didn’t we adopt the Danish method then when it came to scaling back the fishing fleet?

Or why didn’t we adapt to catching the wide variety of fish and shellfish in our waters and sell it to the Spanish and French and Belgians? No reason but the flipping incompetence of our fishing industry lad  err s and their eagerness to take the quick buck.

Blaming Johnny Foreigner is a convenient get out for the people that treated the hard-working folk of Grimsby and Hull as ‘casual workers’. It’s flipping disgusting  what British business did to our people. All sided and abetted by Tory governments. It wasn’t until Labour we’re back in power that any compensation was given to the poor buggers that risked life and limb and were thrown on the scrap heap.

Maybe you’ve forgotten that. Or maybe your surname is Ross.


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Rik e B
February 4, 2020, 2:52am

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As one of the biggest contributors to EU budget they certainly will miss us, and they extremely concerned about having a competitive neighbour on their doorstep that will show other nations there is a better way than their protectionist racket.

Hence they desperate to tie us down with 'level playing field' arrangements and close alignment.
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Rik e B
February 4, 2020, 2:59am

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I cannot be arrised to argue back and forth with those who got a bee in their bonnet it not gone their way.

I'll simply make one prediction. Everything will be okay. Britains economy will continue to grow and succeed and people will look back and think what was all the worry about.

Maybe some short term bumps in the road, but a price worth paying to be sovereign law makers and not law takers with a democratic system of representation not the anti-democtratic charade over in Brussels.

France and Netherlands vote against Lisbon Treaty, tough we're doing it anyway.

About time the people finally listened to.
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Roast Em Bobby
February 4, 2020, 8:50am
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Quoted from Marinerz93


when we had our sovereignty given away without our consent with the federalization of Europe.


Wasn't it John Major who signed the Maastricht Treaty and the public voted the Tory's back in after he signed it?  So in effect it was with the consent of the UK people.
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Roast Em Bobby
February 4, 2020, 9:54am
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Quoted from Rik e B


Maybe some short term bumps in the road, but a price worth paying to be sovereign law makers and not law takers with a democratic system of representation not the anti-democtratic charade over in Brussels.


Who elected Dominic Cummings then?
Why are the Yanks interfering in who we buy our IT equipment from, and threatening trade sanctions if we choose Huwai?

Only two positions in EU are not democratically elected, and even those are chosen by people who have been elected by the people.

We are heading towards the far right already with journalists being excluded from briefings.

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Marinerz93
February 4, 2020, 6:39pm

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Quoted from KingstonMariner
So why didn’t we adopt the Danish method then when it came to scaling back the fishing fleet?

Or why didn’t we adapt to catching the wide variety of fish and shellfish in our waters and sell it to the Spanish and French and Belgians? No reason but the flipping incompetence of our fishing industry lad  err s and their eagerness to take the quick buck.

Blaming Johnny Foreigner is a convenient get out for the people that treated the hard-working folk of Grimsby and Hull as ‘casual workers’. It’s flipping disgusting  what British business did to our people. All sided and abetted by Tory governments. It wasn’t until Labour we’re back in power that any compensation was given to the poor buggers that risked life and limb and were thrown on the scrap heap.

Maybe you’ve forgotten that. Or maybe your surname is Ross.


Good and fair points in catching shell fish how did that go down when our fishing boats were rammed by the French. No arguments about Trawler owners about making a quick buck, I never blamed Johnny Foreigner, I blamed the EU.

Labour we’re back in power that any compensation was given to the poor buggers that risked life and limb and were thrown on the scrap heap. is utter balderdash.

It think it was a fish worker Lillian Bilocca who was one of the headscarf revolutionaries who campaigned for compensation for fisherman, not any Labour MP and it wasn't until 2012 under a coalition government of Conservative and Lib Dems that the fishermen were offered compensation and an apology to fishermen who lost their livelihoods in the 1970s. More than 35 years after the workers lost their jobs, the £1,000 compensation offered to 2,500 fisherman was criticised for being insufficient and excessively delayed  People like, my dad, Grandad and other family relatives and many other fisherman and the like died well before this payment was made, and it wasn't the labour party, Labour did fcuk all when they were in power, this was in their gift to do that and they didn't give a excrement.

Labour were in government but no compensation given until Conservatives and Lib Dems in 2012.
1974 to 1979
1997 to 2010

2012 - Conservative / Lib Dems offer apology and compensation, why are they apologising for Labours incompetence



Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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barralad
February 6, 2020, 1:05am
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I think you are getting your time-lines muddled. Marinerz93.
I well remember going to meetings during Blair's first administration with the local Labour M. P.s Mitchell and McIsaac and Dolly Hardy to discuss the nuts and bolts of the compensation settlement.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
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Marinerz93
February 6, 2020, 5:22pm

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Quoted from barralad
I think you are getting your time-lines muddled. Marinerz93.
I well remember going to meetings during Blair's first administration with the local Labour M. P.s Mitchell and McIsaac and Dolly Hardy to discuss the nuts and bolts of the compensation settlement.


The point you've raised is the first I've heard of that Ian and I do believe what you are saying is true, so why wasn't it until the Lib Dem / Tory alliance before anything was done, Labour were in 10 years before that. In the main it was the Hull Fisherman's wives, the headscarf revolutionaries that led the way and were even recognized for their efforts in getting the compensation for Fishermen.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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ginnywings
February 12, 2020, 11:34pm

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My Dad received £20,000 compensation long before 2012, so you are totally wrong with your post. Was late 90's and Dolly Hardy was certainly involved. Think Austin Mitchell was too.

Unfortunately, my Dad was dead and buried by that time, so he never saw a penny for his efforts. It was shared among his kids and i equipped my workshop with my share.

Going back to the original thread title, i think it's a massive mistake leaving Europe and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. There is a definite rise in nationalism around Europe and the rest of the world, with countries retreating behind their borders, blaming "foreigners" for all their ills. Nothing good will come of it and the rise of the right will end in tears.
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Marinerz93
February 15, 2020, 10:10pm

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Quoted from ginnywings
My Dad received £20,000 compensation long before 2012, so you are totally wrong with your post. Was late 90's and Dolly Hardy was certainly involved. Think Austin Mitchell was too.

Unfortunately, my Dad was dead and buried by that time, so he never saw a penny for his efforts. It was shared among his kids and i equipped my workshop with my share.

Going back to the original thread title, i think it's a massive mistake leaving Europe and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. There is a definite rise in nationalism around Europe and the rest of the world, with countries retreating behind their borders, blaming "foreigners" for all their ills. Nothing good will come of it and the rise of the right will end in tears.


You could be right Ginny, after some trawling the net, some received payments in 2001 and some received payments after a report Published:  30 November, 2009, but majority didn't start getting them until 2014. So confusion around why after the report was published Nov 2009, the payments weren't immediate for the majority and why there were split payments to some in 2001 and others had to wait for other reports until 2009 then 2014.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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ginnywings
February 16, 2020, 7:57pm

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Could have been 2001. Thought it was late 90's but the mind plays tricks with memory.
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Marinerz93
February 17, 2020, 3:00pm

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Quoted from ginnywings
Could have been 2001. Thought it was late 90's but the mind plays tricks with memory.


And different sources having different dates with reports and payments made hasn't helped.


Supporting the Mighty Mariners for over 30 years, home town club is were the heart and soul is and it's great to be a part of it.

Jesus’ disciple Peter, picked up a fish to get the tribute money from it, Jesus left his thumb print on the fish, bless'ed is the Haddock.
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jock dock tower
March 10, 2020, 4:13pm
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It will be interesting, now that the coronavirus sh*t has hit the fan to see if Johnson's puppeteer, Cummings, allows him to do the sensible thing and quietly forget the 31/12/20 foolhardy decision to leave the EU, come what may.


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
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Maringer
March 10, 2020, 11:14pm
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At the very least, it would be sensible to ask for an extension to the withdrawal agreement. Johnson wouldn't even have to lose any face for doing so. Wait until the outbreak has settled down around Europe and our major trading partners around the world and then concentrate on the negotiations. Might even work in Johnson's favour if he didn't have such an impossible deadline to attempt to meet.
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Grismby Town Forum - The Fishy GTFC Fishy Boards Non Football › At last, we are officially out of the EU tonight.

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