Ethnophaulism discussion

Quoted from ClarkyGTFC

Already signed according to Tondeur on the wireless

Who, the surrender monkey or Robson?

Quoted from 123614

Who, the surrender monkey or Robson?

The Frenchman. Confirmed by IH in his post match interview.

Quoted from 123614

Who, the surrender monkey or Robson?

You talking about the nation that dominated continental Europe for hundreds of years and had an empire second only to our own?

Quoted from Rik e B

You'd never have guessed you love Europe Kingston... 😅

As for Grandin; a stopgap to bulk out the squad and bring competition for places till the end of the Season at which point Ollie can seek out more long term options?

And/or reward Grandin with another year if he's proved himself useful?

Ollie's been thrust into a job with an immediate brief window, he might be lumping for faces that are tried and trusted with him without having the time to do full due diligence on everybody he doesn't know personally given the shirt time frame available and all his many other tasks to be on with.

Im sure our scouting network isn't extensive!

Just can’t stand lazy stereotypes Rik* And that lame old Yank thing about the French is just about the most historically inaccurate balderdash around - and if Cousin Jonathan had any manners he’d remember that but for The help of Frere Jacques, he’d still be singing God Save the Queen.

* Mind you, as Jimmy Carr (I think it was) said ‘people go on about lazy racism as if that was the really bad thing. What we really don’t want again is a load of very active racists.’

Quoted from KingstonMariner

You talking about the nation that dominated continental Europe for hundreds of years and had an empire second only to our own?

Yes I am, those that surrendered to the Germans just 7 weeks in to the 2nd World War, then made peace with the Germans.  However, my post was a little bit of banter, I don't wish to be embroiled in political discussions.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Just can’t stand lazy stereotypes Rik* And that lame old Yank thing about the French is just about the most historically inaccurate balderdash around - and if Cousin Jonathan had any manners he’d remember that but for The help of Frere Jacques, he’d still be singing God Save the Queen.

* Mind you, as Jimmy Carr (I think it was) said ‘people go on about lazy racism as if that was the really bad thing. What we really don’t want again is a load of very active racists.’

Are you referring to the French surrender to the Germans?

Quoted from 123614

Yes I am, those that surrendered to the Germans just 7 weeks in to the 2nd World War, then made peace with the Germans.

The alternative was to be slaughtered en masse. The French army was utterly beaten (as was the British Expeditionary Force) and had suffered much greater losses than the Germans (or the British, for that matter). A lot of it was down to poor leadership as the soldiers certainly fought as hard as they could - the German losses of troops and equipment showed this. Almost a million French troops were liberated from camps in Germany at the end of the war so it's not as though it was a barrel of laughs for most of them. Not to mention tens of thousands who died as part of the resistance.

Bad leadership and tactics leads to bad outcomes. Just ask the allied troops in Singapore who suffered so much following that needless surrender.

Quoted from Maringer

The alternative was to be slaughtered en masse. The French army was utterly beaten (as was the British Expeditionary Force) and had suffered much greater losses than the Germans (or the British, for that matter). A lot of it was down to poor leadership as the soldiers certainly fought as hard as they could - the German losses of troops and equipment showed this. Almost a million French troops were liberated from camps in Germany at the end of the war so it's not as though it was a barrel of laughs for most of them. Not to mention tens of thousands who died as part of the resistance.

Bad leadership and tactics leads to bad outcomes. Just ask the allied troops in Singapore who suffered so much following that needless surrender.

It's easy for idiots to scoff at what the French went through from 1940-44 when we live in a country with a 20 mile moat around it and we were in the fortunate position to have radar stations set up which was 100% the key to winning the Battle of Britain and avoiding the Germans invading us too.

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Well done Kingston for turning a thread about a new player into a discussion about the Second World War ffs !!!

Nothing to do with Black_and_White_Bear using an offensive/racist term to describe our latest signing. No, it's all Kingston's fault.

Quoted from Rik e B

You'd never have guessed you love Europe Kingston... 😅

As for Grandin; a stopgap to bulk out the squad and bring competition for places till the end of the Season at which point Ollie can seek out more long term options?

And/or reward Grandin with another year if he's proved himself useful?

Ollie's been thrust into a job with an immediate brief window, he might be lumping for faces that are tried and trusted with him without having the time to do full due diligence on everybody he doesn't know personally given the shirt time frame available and all his many other tasks to be on with.

Im sure our scouting network isn't extensive!

I think Grandin will be a similar situation to Clarke - a contract until the end of the season and if you prove yourself then another season. I have it on very good authority that Clarke wanted 18 months but Ollie said "prove yourself and we'll see".

Quoted from GollyGTFC

It's easy for idiots to scoff at what the French went through from 1940-44 when we live in a country with a 20 mile moat around it and we were in the fortunate position to have radar stations set up which was 100% the key to winning the Battle of Britain and avoiding the Germans invading us too.

I object to being called an idiot for something that started off as a bit of banter.  This is why I don't like politics in forums.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Nothing to do with Black_and_White_Bear using an offensive/racist term to describe our latest signing. No, it's all Kingston's fault.

OMG, really!  It's a well known bit of banter, not racist in anyway, and is actually factual.

Quoted from Maringer

The alternative was to be slaughtered en masse. The French army was utterly beaten (as was the British Expeditionary Force) and had suffered much greater losses than the Germans (or the British, for that matter). A lot of it was down to poor leadership as the soldiers certainly fought as hard as they could - the German losses of troops and equipment showed this. Almost a million French troops were liberated from camps in Germany at the end of the war so it's not as though it was a barrel of laughs for most of them. Not to mention tens of thousands who died as part of the resistance.

Bad leadership and tactics leads to bad outcomes. Just ask the allied troops in Singapore who suffered so much following that needless surrender.

Better than fighting though eh? Unlike our young men who after Dunkirk dusted themselves down and got stuck back in, not to mention the tens of thousands of Jews eagerly rounded up by their own traitorous countrymen and shipped to their doom in the death camps of Poland and Germany.

The past is the past, I grew up in the eighties with all that 'bloody Germans' narrative but after working there for a while a came back with a totally different viewpoint; what a wonderfully welcoming country and people who we could learn a thing or two from about taking a bit of pride in our surroundings (not a bit of litter in sight in two weeks over there and immaculately presented homesteads throughout, well, barring the East which was a bit poverty-stricken looking, bare breezeblock etc)

As I said to a German colleague over there I befriended who mentioned one of us English seemed to dislike them, it's nothing to do with him or the current generation what Hitler did and anyway the German people were tricked and draconianly forced into following him. I said its akin to black people hating me because I'm white and the injustices of slavery all those years ago -nothing to do with me personally.

Quoted from 123614

OMG, really!  It's a well known bit of banter, not racist in anyway, and is actually factual.

Calling a black, French player a "surrender monkey" has no racial connotations? And that's before we consider the "surrender" part of your xenophobic insult. It's not banter. If you met him in person would you call him that? No, You wouldn't. I bet some of your best friends are black aren't they?

Some 25,000 French civilians were killed on D-Day oor soon after.  The French Resistance were also very brave and fighting against the odds.

More personally,  I did a walking race in France (Roubaix) in the 1990s.  I can still remember the tasty food given to us free.  

Quoted from Rik e B

The past is the past, I grew up in the eighties with all that 'bloody Germans' narrative but after working there for a while a came back with a totally different viewpoint; what a wonderfully welcoming country and people who we could learn a thing or two from about taking a bit of pride in our surroundings (not a bit of litter in sight in two weeks over there and immaculately presented homesteads throughout, well, barring the East which was a bit poverty-stricken looking, bare breezeblock etc)

As I said to a German colleague over there I befriended who mentioned one of us English seemed to dislike them, it's nothing to do with him or the current generation what Hitler did and anyway the German people were tricked and draconianly forced into following him. I said its akin to black people hating me because I'm white and the injustices of slavery all those years ago -nothing to do with me personally.

I found it completely different, having served there in the British Army during the Cold War.  Our local bakery manger made it clear she didn't like the British, and I was once accosted in a quiet little bar where we went to eat by a German soldier who was serving in the German forces at the time.  Yes there were good people who were friendly but also a lot that were not.  (BTW, draconianly is not a word.)  

Thanks, don't have time to spellchecker everything and first thing that came to mind 🤭

Was that East Germany? Vastly different attitudes I hear, I didn't stick about there to really meet anyone, just straight from B&B to job then moved straight on to West where stayed the rest of two weeks. And they were very Anglo friendly (the odd anti-English neanderthal -there was one meathead we worked with and his couple of taggers on who just grunted at us and angrily cursed in German at us all the time at the slightest thing who clearly despised us)

Maybe times have changed or maybe I visited a quite touristy area (Baveria).

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Calling a black, French player a "surrender monkey" has no racial connotations? And that's before we consider the "surrender" part of your xenophobic insult. It's not banter. If you met him in person would you call him that? No, You wouldn't. I bet some of your best friends are black aren't they?

Yes, my best friend in the Army was black and still is my best friend after 50 years. and his nickname in the Platoon was Snowball, was not a problem for him at all, maybe Army banter is a bit too much for civilians, but it is certainly NOT racist.,   I see that you tried to take the monkey part out of context by making it bold, ( I corrected it for you) .  The actual whole phrase is 'cheese eating, onion wearing, surrender monkey, and is not racist at all.  Racist Definition:  "A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another."

Quoted from Rik e B

Thanks, don't have time to spellchecker everything and first thing that came to mind 🤭

Was that East Germany? Vastly different attitudes I hear, I didn't stick about there to really meet anyone, just straight from B&B to job then moved straight on to West where stayed the rest of two weeks. And they were very Anglo friendly (the odd anti-English neanderthal -there was one meathead we worked with and his couple of taggers on who just grunted at us and angrily cursed in German at us all the time at the slightest thing who clearly despised us)

Maybe times have changed or maybe I visited a quite touristy area (Baveria).

Oh no, we were not allowed to go into East Germany, I was stationed in a town Called Celle in Northern West Germany.

I was gonna say, is the 'cheese munching' part racist? 🧀🤔

I’ve always found germans to be very polite, friendly and welcoming. I like them. I suppose there must be some bad apples though, but i’ve never met any.

Some people might think so.  

Quoted from NorthseaMariner

I’ve always found germans to be very polite, friendly and welcoming. I like them. I suppose there must be some bad apples though, but i’ve never met any.

Maybe the ones that were not very friendly with me and my family, just didn't like British Soldiers.

Right of course BAWB, duh (me).

I've worked or schooled with a few black people over the years who had what would be perceived as racist nicknames but they had absolutely no problem with. Maybe it because racist comments were much more overt back then and stuck as nicknames or maybe it because when you good friends or acquaintances with someone they laugh it off or dont take offence.

Or maybe sinisterly they didn't like at first but when 20 white people round you and you all alone you just give up and accept it?

Dam was tryna get thread back on topic and contributing to the opposite 🙊

Well my nickname in the Platoon was Camel, I had no problem with that though to this day I still don't know where it came from.

Did you pee a lot??

The Germans are generally ok as well.  I spent 3 years there in the RAF.

You have to treat people as individuals and as you find them.  That applies everywhere.  

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

The Germans are generally ok as well.  I spent 3 years there in the RAF.

You have to treat people as individuals and as you find them.  That applies everywhere.  

Agreed, I was friendly and polite to all the locals we met, and I didn't even punch the German soldier who had a go at me!!

Quoted from 123614

Yes, my best friend in the Army was black and still is my best friend after 50 years. and his nickname in the Platoon was Snowball, was not a problem for him at all, maybe Army banter is a bit too much for civilians, but it is certainly NOT racist.,   I see that you tried to take the monkey part out of context by making it bold, ( I corrected it for you) .  The actual whole phrase is 'cheese eating, onion wearing, surrender monkey, and is not racist at all.  Racist Definition:  "A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another."

You missed out garlic? I never said you were racist. But if you think describing a french person using terms like that doesn't constitute xenophobic, racist and/or offensive terms then you probably need a new dictionary. Have a nice day.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You missed out garlic? I never said you were racist. But if you think describing a french person using terms like that doesn't constitute xenophobic, racist and/or offensive terms then you probably need a new dictionary. Have a nice day.

Fuc off onto the non football forum!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Calling a black, French player a "surrender [/b]monkey[/b]" has no racial connotations? And that's before we consider the "surrender" part of your xenophobic insult. It's not banter. If you met him in person would you call him that? No, You wouldn't. I bet some of your best friends are black aren't they?

I wasn't going to get involved in yet another thread been hijacked by someone to enforce their own agenda.  But that does it for me.
If you want to call someone for the comments about cheese eating surrender monkeys that's up to you.  But that phrase has been used for years about  the French in general.  To assume it was used because the player is Black is yet another example of some well meaning but annoyingly interfering oh so PC nitwit.  You have as much right as anyone to comment about the 'phrase' itself.  But please don't look for racism when it isn't there.  Or should Town be playing in 'of colour' and white. ??

FFS.


P.S.  Just to enforce your stereotypical views, Yes I do read the daily Mail,YesI did vote leave, Yes I did vote Tory (only just though) and finally I do have friends have a different skin colour to myself.

I expect you to reply, but I'll leave it alone myself unless this is moved to NON FOOTY.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

You missed out garlic? I never said you were racist. But if you think describing a french person using terms like that doesn't constitute xenophobic, racist and/or offensive terms then you probably need a new dictionary. Have a nice day.

Lol, I guess you're one of these 'PC' guys who can't take a joke, you have a nice day too.

Surely interpreting the term ‘monkey’ as racist is in itself racist.

I’m pretty sure that when he coined the phrase ‘cheese eating Surrender monkey’ for an episode of The Simpsons the writer had no intention whatsoever of implying that all French are of colour or that only the coloured ones are cowards.

p.s. sorry Les, only saw your request after posting

I thought Planet Of The Apes was a good film.

My grandad was a nice man and German.

He was only 2years old when he came to England though 😀in 1870.

"Cheese-eating surrender monkeys", sometimes shortened to "surrender monkeys", is a pejorative term for French people. It was coined in 1995 by Ken Keeler, a writer for the television series The Simpsons, and has entered two Oxford quotation dictionaries.



I always wondered which war involving France earned them that nickname, turns out it was the one of the writers for The Simpsons

My eldest grandaughter is married to a Frenchman and when they got married 3 years ago went on a "working honeymoon" to Reunion Island for 6 months. Although Grandin wasn't there then they watched J.S. Saint Pierroise several times and were quietly impressed but were under the impression that they were an amateur team- but I can't imagine Grandin going all that way to play amateur football.

All I can gather from this thread is there's a lot of tyrannical woke nonsense creeping into the Fishy with its phoney anti-racism taking offence at every little conversational slip up

I didn't want pass off-topic comment any more out of respect for those who want to hear about Grendin but some of this is ridiculous.

Should we we all petition to NBC or whoever it is that the Simpson creator be immediately removed for the racist phrase he coined like Alistair Campbell has just been for quoting Shakespeare?

And should anyone who offends someone three times be put forward for Fishy removal?

Come on.

And sorry footy only folk, the problem when these things happen is you feel you have to respond so sadly it never ends.

Shut it down. Start again!

This thread has been spawned from another which got off topic

Quoted from 123614

OMG, really!  It's a well known bit of banter, not racist in anyway, and is actually factual.

So are the French ‘cheese eating surrender monkeys’ or not? (Based on one episode that Maringer has pointed out most definitely wasn’t a case of cowardice).

How would you characterise the British given our surrender to an inferior and poorly equipped force at Singapore?

I know you mean it as a bit of banter but it’s lame and ignorant. Like calling us fat Northern bin dippers.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So are the French ‘cheese eating surrender monkeys’ or not? (Based on one episode that Maringer has pointed out most definitely wasn’t a case of cowardice).

How would you characterise the British given our surrender to an inferior and poorly equipped force at Singapore?

I know you mean it as a bit of banter but it’s lame and ignorant. Like calling us fat Northern bin dippers.

Cheese eating surrender monkeys was coined by a script writer for The Simpsons where grounds keeper Willie was asked to teach French.

It was used by the national Review Online for France's lack of support for going to war with Saddam, citing France has already failed the loyalty test. If it uses its veto, France will get the blame for hollowing out the Security Council, rather than the US, which is going to war, no matter what.  About the time they were renaming French Fries to Freedom Fries.

The UN "is being used as a shield to protect a lawless nation", declared Tony Blankley of the Washington Times. But the real bile was reserved for the French, the "Cheese-eating surrender monkeys" as the National Review Online called them in a phrase picked up from the Simpsons and gleefully reproduced in several publications. Andrew Sullivan published a spoof e-mail about Jacques Chirac sending his elite L'Abandonnement du Field d'Honneur Battalion to help the Iraqis. Sullivan said that condescension for the French had "turned into contempt"; Blakeley called the French "contemptuous"; male private Morris in the New York Post said France was "pro-Saddam"; George Will described French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin as "oleaginous" (unctuous and oily) and Fox TV host Cal Thomas said Powell made so strong a case that "only the duped, the dumb and the desperate" like de Villepin could ignore it.

They were all outdone in French-bashing by Christopher Hitchens of Vanity Fair, who was given the run of the op-ed page of the Wall Street Journal on Thursday to categorise Chirac as "a positive monster of conceit . . . a vain and posturing and venal man . . . the rat that tried to roar." Ingratitude from a Vichy France that had to be rescued from Nazism was a common theme in letters from readers, one of whom in the Wall Street Journal, wrote simply, "God Bless France! She's always there when she needs us." Security Council members are faced with the prospect that if they obstruct the drive for UN approval for war, they will suffer the wrath of the only super-power - and definitely its conservative columnists. France has already failed the loyalty test. If it uses its veto, France will get the blame for hollowing out the Security Council, rather than the US, which is going to war, no matter what.

The problem is some are taking cheese eating surrender Monkey as a racial slur as it has monkey in it, and to do that they are the racists. The phase cheese eating surrender Monkey's in the cartoon is said to a classroom of kids, keep the phrase in context you over sensitive politically correct social bed wetters.

I do know where the whole ‘cheese eating surrender monkey’ thing came from. I don’t need you to explain the whole thing. The stupidity of its use with respect to the French position over the invasion of Iraq in 2003 is that it was a baseless slur on a government that used its intelligence (in all senses of the word) to stay out of an ill-advised foreign adventure that our own government (eager to tongue Uncle Sam’s bottom) didn’t do. Consequently, we have the blood of hundreds of thousands of people on our hands and the French don’t. They also have more credibility on the global stage.

Getting back to my original comment on B&W Bear’s attempt at humour, it is historically inaccurate to describe the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys. I’d rather have them in my side than almost anyone else. I wouldn’t mind but it’s not even funny any more since it first appeared on the Simpsons. For supporters of Death by a Bush to use it just showed how infantile they were. With you’re bed wetting comment, you’re in the same bracket. Or are you really a nine year old?

Quoted from Civvy at last

I wasn't going to get involved in yet another thread been hijacked by someone to enforce their own agenda.  But that does it for me.
If you want to call someone for the comments about cheese eating surrender monkeys that's up to you.  But that phrase has been used for years about  the French in general.  To assume it was used because the player is Black is yet another example of some well meaning but annoyingly interfering oh so PC nitwit.  You have as much right as anyone to comment about the 'phrase' itself.  But please don't look for racism when it isn't there.  Or should Town be playing in 'of colour' and white. ??

FFS.


P.S.  Just to enforce your stereotypical views, Yes I do read the daily Mail,YesI did vote leave, Yes I did vote Tory (only just though) and finally I do have friends have a different skin colour to myself.

I expect you to reply, but I'll leave it alone myself unless this is moved to NON FOOTY.

So why didn’t you jump in when Blackandwhitebear made his non-football comment? Or is ‘surrender monkeys’ a footballing term I haven’t come across yet?

And don’t say it was just banter because banter is something that mates have with each other in each other’s presence. I’m not aware of Grandin being mates with anyone on the fishy.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I do know where the whole ‘cheese eating surrender monkey’ thing came from. I don’t need you to explain the whole thing. The stupidity of its use with respect to the French position over the invasion of Iraq in 2003 is that it was a baseless slur on a government that used its intelligence (in all senses of the word) to stay out of an ill-advised foreign adventure that our own government (eager to tongue Uncle Sam’s bottom) didn’t do. Consequently, we have the blood of hundreds of thousands of people on our hands and the French don’t. They also have more credibility on the global stage.

Getting back to my original comment on B&W Bear’s attempt at humour, it is historically inaccurate to describe the French as cheese eating surrender monkeys. I’d rather have them in my side than almost anyone else. I wouldn’t mind but it’s not even funny any more since it first appeared on the Simpsons. For supporters of Death by a Bush to use it just showed how infantile they were. With you’re bed wetting comment, you’re in the same bracket. Or are you really a nine year old?

I'm offended and everyone is going to hear about it, I'm gonna scream and scream and scream until I wet my bed wha wha.

Do you often argue with 9 year olds, says more about you than me.

I hope your bed is dry before you get in it tonight pumpkin, bless your little offended cotton socks, and we won't mention Brittany, Jesus we wouldn't want that display again would we  

Quoted from KingstonMariner

So why didn’t you jump in when Blackandwhitebear made his non-football comment? Or is ‘surrender monkeys’ a footballing term I haven’t come across yet?

And don’t say it was just banter because banter is something that mates have with each other in each other’s presence. I’m not aware of Grandin being mates with anyone on the fishy.

If you bothered to read and actually digest my comment before exploding with self righteousness you could have saved yourself posting the above nonsense.
My argument was not so much to do with non footy. But the fact that someone was implying the phrase was used because the player concerned is black. IT WASN’T.
It was used because the player is French. I stated that if someone has a problem with the phrase, that is fine. But don’t imply it was used because the player is Black. It clearly wasn’t. It was yet another example of the PC brigade implying stuff that just wasn’t there.