Premier League ...the disease

I see Everton have posted losses of £111m for the last period of 13 months.....and spent a whopping 85% of income on wages.....while I don't mind Everton blowing some rich owners money I find it absolutely galling that the Premier League won't even blink because their rules deem it ok that a club is allowed to lose £100m+ in a three year period...and Everton just scrape under as they made money in the initial year of this period.
All that money and they are still less than ordinary, i would imagine that if you take into account the initial income they receive from PL they must have blown circa £250m just to be that ordinary.
The whole League is a fking disease infecting clubs with financial addiction.

Fking obscene.

Rant over. 🤐

The Premier League is the epitome of a capitalist organisation, not a sporting body in the strictest sense. It's in their interest to allow clubs to spend whatever they like; it's that which allows the league to attract the world's best talent and to subsequently reap the financial rewards of the of the global interest that talent attracts.

The clubs are mostly underwritten by phenominally rich owners, but even if one club were to go pop, along would come another one to replace them and everyone (with the exception of that club's fans) would happily move on. In reality, a club in that kind of financial trouble would probably have found itself floundering in the football league (see: Wanderers, Bolton) by that time so it wouldn't even be their problem anyway.

Sad but true.

What an abomination.

How would you feel if Town did a Bournemouth? Rich owner, etc

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

How would you feel if Town did a Bournemouth? Rich owner, etc

Honestly - I’d lose interest

For me the one value that sets clubs like ours apart, and makes them worth supporting through bad times as well as good, is authenticity

Clubs that are funded by rich owners are fake

Clubs like ours that are funded by the genuine fans, value their integrity, and represent the local community, are authentic

We have a Real Football Club supported by Real Football Fans (overwhelmingly)

The Premier Theatre, has lots of real fans, it also has a lot of football tourists (who don’t know why we despise half and half scarves. Who would wear a GTFC-Lincoln , a GTFC-Scunthorpe or a GTFC-Hull scarf ?) and hanger-ons (who want to be associated with success and only consider the top brands).  I hate it when Sky cameras scan stadiums before a televised game to show obvious visitors taking selfies of themselves to show their friends that they’ve been to a Premier Theatre.

The broad based pyramid that produced the best football structure in the world is slowly (or presently not so slowly) destroying clubs at a rate never seen before.  Gregor Robertson, I think wrote somewhere about 18 months ago that around a dozen and a half clubs were on the verge of imploding - since then we have had Bury, Bolton, Macclesfield, Notts County, Chesterfield etc.

Whatever has happened, for better or worse, as I understand it The Mighty Mariners will be here to fight another day - I appreciate its not great fighting with one hand tied behind your back but fight again we will.

Whether there is a parallel with local produce v mass produced, with CAMRA (Campaign For Real ALE) I don’t know, but what we should be a part of (if not the leaders of) is a Campaign For Real Football.

I genuinely wonder how I would feel if we ended up in The Premier League with gates of 10,000 but it would certainly be a ride I fancy a go on.

It's strange. I'd be more excited and want tk to be in the Championship more so than the Prem. I'd hate to see us score then atand around for a few minutes for some twit sat with a computer screen to find any way possible to cancel the goal off.

And now they have VAR controlling the decisions . If Var was ever rolled out the the EFL I would seek my football fix lower down the pyramid. I suspect the championship will follow in the next 2/3 years but there isn’t enough money in lg1 and lg2 for the powers to be interested . Where the is huge money there is and always will be someone wanting to control it imo

It’s all well and good having a negative view of the top flight but what about fans of clubs who don’t know any different, what about ‘real’ fans who’ve been there before rich owners.

Town fans say they’d lose interest if we flew up there with a rich owner but that’s balderdash, as a footballs we want our team to win, to compete with the best and be the best we can be. There’s no way anyone can say they’d love it or hate it.

The premier league is what it is, I don’t really care either way, although for 20 years now people have been saying at some point it’ll go bust...we’re still waiting.

Fact is, the one club that came close was bailed out and supported to some extent, yes we all know that was done to protect the brand and the league but they still did it, whereas the EFL who are desperate to compete with the top flight have urine weak rules and regulations and are so inconsistent in their application of them.

The premier league is the ultimate capitalist venture although it still lags behind some of the othe big sporting brands like F1 and NFL (one thing the premier league has done rightly or wrongly is seen their viewing figures increase unlike NFL which has been through a rough spell by their standards).

We have to realise it isn’t going anywhere and it won’t change. Clubs like Everton will continue to post losses, clubs like Bournemouth will forever be lauded up by unaware, ignorant pundits like they’re a small club done good, ignoring the billionaire owner but in defence of the premier league...they created the brand and the league...the clubs started falling over themselves to be part of it.

We’re a million miles away and that’s fine by me. I’m more concerned about the man at the top of my club than other clubs at the very top continually over spending and living in cloud cuckoo.

Interesting that whilst many continually chastise the premier league other issues seemingly get forgotten...I notice there’s in investigation in to the governance of the PFA taking place.

I’ve thought, rather cynically, for a while that VAR is doing a cracking job of deflecting attention away from the real issues within the game. Huge issues around crooked or unfit owners, still rising increases of racism etc. (This may also imply that people are more likely to report it or we’re better at catching folk. This has certainly been proven with sexual offending, aptitude of those investigating has increased rather than the actual numbers of perps). We’ve seen clubs in the EFL fall apart and disappear, unregulated agents, continual over spending and failure to meet tax burdens etc.

Meanwhile everyone is just getting their knickers in a twist over VAR...it’s the least of our worries.

Much like the top flight, does a great job of masking those real concerns...

So in 2030 we’re top of the Championship six points clear on the last game of the season. The FL are about to present us with that famous old trophy to confirm our place alongside the English footballing elite for the first time in nearly a century. The ground is empty because we’ve been bankrolled by some billionaire’s money. Stop kidding yourselves.

The last time we were top of the Championship the news was overshadowed the following day by England beating Germany 5-1.    

Looking at just the football in the Premiership:  did Villa fans enjoy being 6-0 down after 90 mins to Man City? Is this really better than competing on level terms in the Championship?

The rich clubs are getting richer, better and more consistent at winning. Top 6 teams rarely lose these days to teams in the bottom 3.

Liverpool set a points record in the top 5 leagues in Europe, winning 20 out of their first 21 games.   This records includes competing against money-bags Man City, who have also been setting their own records.

Liverpool impresssive record was better than 6 other record-breaking teams in Europe.  All these 7 teams have set points records from the start of the season in the last 10 years. This is no coincidence - they don't award more points per game now.

(Liverpool have taken their performances, consistency and results to another level.  Helped by the expertise of their backroom staff.   They also recruit and coach players better than most clubs..  This is underpinned by them tracking the progress of 100,000 footballers across the world and for all ages).

We all know the PL is about money but we forget what it has done to the likes of us. Buying abroad and using all that sponsor money and foreign owners' money to flood the game with foreign "talent". Even Norwich who have a strict budget policy go and sign Bundesliga reserves instead of looking for talent in UK leagues. Money that should be percolating down the pyramid is just going for short term gains to some agent and no account club abroad.

People pointed to Keith Burkinshaw signing Villa and Ardiles or Chelsea signing Zola in 1996 and said they would raise standards but they were signed to generate money. The PL has never ever been interested in football per se, only the rewards that can come from success and the CL. Now it is killing the game altogether with a technical gimmick called VAR.

Quoted from LH

So in 2030 we’re top of the Championship six points clear on the last game of the season. The FL are about to present us with that famous old trophy to confirm our place alongside the English footballing elite for the first time in nearly a century. The ground is empty because we’ve been bankrolled by some billionaire’s money. Stop kidding yourselves.

No, the ground would be full, of course. But where are those so called ‘fans’ right now?

To respond to your point, I suspect that a percentage of current fans would not be there, me included, for a variety of reasons. Some would simply not be able to afford to buy the season ticket sold at exorbitant prices.

Personally my motivation for supporting town is that it’s my heritage. It keeps me connected with my father and my grandfather and all the other family members that would go to Blundell Park whether the team was doing well or badly, and whether they could afford it or not.

Of course I want Town to succeed, but I want that success to be genuine, and sustainable, financed by new fans whose loyalty has been earned not bought. If that means we never make the Premiership, so be it.

In the unlikely event of the scenario you describe I might as well start going to Leeds. Elland Road is walking distance from where I live and I would feel just as connected to them as I would to a fake Town side bankrolled by some billionaire.

I would of course still follow Town, as once a Mariner, always a Mariner. I suspect however that I would take the easy exile’s option of doing it remotely.

In the meantime I’m looking forward to the trip over to watch us take on Exeter with the current generation of family members. I expect there will be an extra thousand or so on the gate as a result of the Ollie effect, and I hope the team earn their support at the Stevenage game with a passionate performance, win, draw or lose.

Yes, lower-league players like Keegan and Clemence used to be signed by top clubs.  Now this rarely happens and EFL clubs have to survive on limited income.Many clubs used to survive by relying on selling 1 or 2 players each season.

On another issue, it is a myth that an influx of top foreign players was detriment to the national team.  We did not qualify for the 1974 and 1978 World Cups, even when there were hardly any foreign players in the top flight.  

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Yes, lower-league players like Keegan and Clemence used to be signed by top clubs.  Now this rarely happens and EFL clubs have to survive on limited income.Many clubs used to survive by relying on selling 1 or 2 players each season.

On another issue, it is a myth that an influx of top foreign players was detriment to the national team.  We did not qualify for the 1974 and 1978 World Cups, even when there were hardly any foreign players in the top flight.  

Or Town selling Tees, Green, Wright, Croft, Tilson, Oster, Mendonca .........

On the national team, I don't think foreign imports in the 90s damaged the England team as such but they did make it more difficult as the numbers grew for UK players to play in the PL which must have hurt to national team. What really rankles with me is that they were brought in under false pretences of entertainment and even raising standards when it was completely false - these players were purely for financial gain. Imports like Bergkamp, Henri and Vierra made a fortune for Arsenal and in the long run will have ruined the EFL as well as the PL.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

Yes, lower-league players like Keegan and Clemence used to be signed by top clubs.  Now this rarely happens and EFL clubs have to survive on limited income.Many clubs used to survive by relying on selling 1 or 2 players each season.

On another issue, it is a myth that an influx of top foreign players was detriment to the national team.  We did not qualify for the 1974 and 1978 World Cups, even when there were hardly any foreign players in the top flight.  

The worst part of this was typified by town losing Burrell to Middlesbrough, decent fee for a young lad but unlike Donovan, Drinkell & Wilkinson our young players rarely get the opportunity to play a couple of seasons for our first team. The academy system just hoovers up any possible talent for nominal sums of money with too few transfers taking place which see L2 players moving straight to the Championship never mind the Premiership. Hard to believe Keegan finishes one season at Scunny and starts the next making his debut and scoring for Liverpool (against Forest if memory serves me well).

There are young lads coming through and there’s evidence of that but now the net goes beyond our own shores...and with what is at stake and the likes who can blame top flight clubs for gambling on someone who may make them cash and equally, if that players goes on to become an excellent player, their rival doesn’t have them unless they pay a premium.

There is a wider issue with young lads earning big wages without ever really playing anything other than a glorified reserve game but then who can blame them for taking it. The clubs have caused that by agreeing to pay it. Plenty of clubs in league 1 in that position and a smattering in ours. Happens up and down the leagues but naturally attention is drawn to the top flight.

As I’ve said in my previous post, the debate against the premier league is one that can happen and valid points are made but it’s futile in the long run because it’s not going anywhere.

People may talk about ‘real’ fans and all that jazz but it happens to everyone...I distinctly remember BP being much busier when we were top of the conference in comparison to now.

It’s a natural phenomenon, people would rather watch a winning side. Clubs know that and let’s face it, it’s those fans that get fleeced and exploited. Whilst ticket prices are high, other than that, if town got to that level would any of us do anything different on a match day? Nope! Tourists do and clubs know that so they exploit them...is it wrong? Probably but no different to other businesses.

There are bigger, more pertinent discussion to be had about football that aren’t about VAR and the premier league.

Whatever my disdain for it all I'd follow Town into the Prem and back of course I would, so much as finances allow. I would hope the prices wouldn't go too daft in recognition of the struggle of the working class in our area.

At least behind the goal say, keep prices just about affordable.

I know they'll be up in the Gods but I believe the plan for Anfields latest expansion is that the tickets will be capped at £25 in new area to encourage their traditional working class supporter.

If the premiership is full of foreign players then that means British players being pushed down the leagues, so in theory today’s league 2 players would have been playing championship/league 1 level years back. Then I look at some of our players over the last few years and sometimes wonder how some of then could even be classed as a professional footballer, never mind playing 1/2 leagues higher.

Things I would hate if we got to the Premiership.....

1    The cost of a Ticket (or Seson Ticket)
2    VAR
3    Players who fall to the ground like they have been shot when an opponent just touches them.
4    Not playing every week on Saturday at 3pm
5    £50+ for a replica shirt.
6    Sitting with all the plastic fans that appear from nowhere.

I'm sure some clubs premier league season ticket prices were cheaper than Town's. They don't make the bulk of their money from ticket sales.

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

Things I would hate if we got to the Premiership.....

1    The cost of a Ticket (or Seson Ticket)
2    VAR
3    Players who fall to the ground like they have been shot when an opponent just touches them.
4    Not playing every week on Saturday at 3pm
5    £50+ for a replica shirt.
6    Sitting with all the plastic fans that appear from nowhere.

I think I could bring myself to put up with the above if we were to reach the promised land.

In Grantham’s list the only thing that would be frustrating is the random KO times, although we’d be a no mark team so a vast amount of our games would be 3pm KOs anyway.

Shirts are almost £50 anyway, season tickets naturally rise as the team improves, although there are STs available in the top flight for similar prices to league 1-2 clubs.

Diving exists at every level these days. VAR is male masturbation...but so is going away to Stevenage. I could cope with however excrement it is for an away game at Villa park or Goodison et al.

Glory fans would’ve appeared well before we went up to the top flight, they’d start to appear the moment the club went in to the ascendency...

I'd rather have the glory fans on board than look like a tinpot small-time Charlie with a just a few thousand fans in the upper echelons.

Never quite get the moaning about glory fans or part timers. Most are died in the wool Town who read and listen to all the updates on their Club but just need a bit more coercing out of their hard earned. And any brand new fans... Welcome aboard -hopefully fans for life and start a generational tradition of supporting Town: father, Son, Grandson and on and on.

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

Things I would hate if we got to the Premiership.....

1    The cost of a Ticket (or Seson Ticket)
2    VAR
3    Players who fall to the ground like they have been shot when an opponent just touches them.
4    Not playing every week on Saturday at 3pm
5    £50+ for a replica shirt.
6    Sitting with all the plastic fans that appear from nowhere.

1   Ticket prices won’t be any higher in the PL than they would be if we were still in L2
2   VAR will have been refined by the time we get to the PL
3   A la Moses Ogbu, Ahkeem Rose ect have been doing this season?
4   Almost all of our games would be 3pm KO anyway, we’re never going to be the Man City vs Liverpool exciting TV draw are we! We currently have 2 1pm kick offs a season anyway vs Scunny (spit)
5   I’d be over the moon to be paying an extra £7 for my shirt to watch town in the PL
6   So you’d rather be sat within spitting distance of probably 50 empty seats as has been most of this season so far, rather than sat amongst the next generation of Mariners die hards?

Sorry but every one of the glass half empty points that you’d “hate” if we got the the PL are an absolute joke!

There are no hurdles, financially, geographically or morally, that would stop me following my team, as I have for the past 25 years. My 7 year old son is the next generation, he lives his life waiting for Saturdays, he idolises the team as did I at his age, he stands with me pitch side on the final whistle and claps his team off the pitch wether we’ve won or been hammered 4-0. He is loyal to his team and will be there come rain or shine, Premier League or National League.

UTMM

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

How would you feel if Town did a Bournemouth? Rich owner, etc

I think Bournemouth still hold some dignity.  It still has a family feel.  I'd rather them be up their with a rich owner than go the way of Bury, which they nearly did.  Take a look at their manager.  He was playing for them at Wembley when they played Town. I bumped into their fans on the way home that day.  Cracking bunch of lads who bought me a beer.

I always remember Eddie Howe standing out for them and I rarely focus on opposition players. Maybe because he was so blonde... or maybe because he was a thorn in our side? I remember noticing just how much it seemed to mean to him.

The Premier League is gross in many ways, but it is entertaining and revered around the world, so it serves its purpose.

However, the real problems lie in The Championship. Nearly every club over spending to eye watering levels. That really IS a bubble that has to burst. I’m not sure I’d even be excited about Town being at THAT level anymore.