Time for change of formation

Its been clear all season that a 4-3-3 with wide strikers doesnt work with the personnel we have. To start it isolates Hanson up top with no one to link with. There was times in that 1st half when Green got the ball out wide and had nobody within 50 yards of him for support.
Our midfield is lightweight with no creation so just 3 in there sees us being bypassed and some of our better players are put of position or left on the bench.

I feel that a 3-5-2 with wing backs and a man in the hole behind the front 2 could be an answer, think something like this...


                                  McKeown

                Pollock     Waterfall      Ohmen

Hendrie       Hessenthaler       Robson    Gibson

                                    Wright

                         Green       Hanson

Think that with Wrights pace and energy he can get about the pitch, link play and create. Similar to the Embleton role last year.
I also believe that its well overdue to rest Davis and Whitehouse.
Pollock deserves a run in the team and Robson made a difference when he came on yesterday.

Thoughts?

We've seen that 3-5-2 more often than not fails, hence it was swiftly binned after being our original plan. 😒

I would move Robson into the Wright role and bring in Clifton. Swap Green for Ogbu and let Wright slowly work his way into the team as he has been out for a long time. Would start it as a 5  3  2  to get a foot hold in the game first.

Time for a change of personnel. Board, manager and players.

At the moment the only formation that gives us a chance would be, 6-5-4.

In the immortal words of Mike Bassett......this week we will be playing 4,4 effing 2
‘nuff said.........

We have turned into a team of wimps . Can’t remember anyone bar Pollock and Hess hitting anyone hard in a tackle.  Thought the Lincoln boys were meant to be tough?

Quoted from Stew0_0

Its been clear all season that a 4-3-3 with wide strikers doesnt work with the personnel we have. To start it isolates Hanson up top with no one to link with. There was times in that 1st half when Green got the ball out wide and had nobody within 50 yards of him for support.
Our midfield is lightweight with no creation so just 3 in there sees us being bypassed and some of our better players are put of position or left on the bench.

I feel that a 3-5-2 with wing backs and a man in the hole behind the front 2 could be an answer, think something like this...


                                  McKeown

                Pollock     Waterfall      Ohmen

Hendrie       Hessenthaler       Robson    Gibson

                                    Wright

                         Green       Hanson

Think that with Wrights pace and energy he can get about the pitch, link play and create. Similar to the Embleton role last year.
I also believe that its well overdue to rest Davis and Whitehouse.
Pollock deserves a run in the team and Robson made a difference when he came on yesterday.

Thoughts?

When many have been wanting more pace in the side especially out wide I just don't see the point in bringing in Max Wright into the middle of the pitch

Macca
Hendrie Pollock Waterfall Gibson
Wright Clifton Hess Rose
Ogbu Hanson##

I don't even believe in that team myself... we are in big trouble

352
Waterfall Pollock Davis
Hendrie Hess Clifton Robson Gibson
Hanson Ogbu

Where do you out Wright in a 352?
Should Hanson play in 433? Mobile enough?

451
Hendrie Pollock Waterfall Gibson
Wright Clifton Hess Robson Rose
Hanson

F*ck knows

Hess
Good L2 player but...
In a successful team he would be about 5th/6th on the list of your top players
He's not a 10 goals a season man from midfield
He's not a gamechanger

He's a water carrier - essential to any team but should be going largely unnoticed

I think it sums up our team and where we are

A lot of vanilla but very little mint choc chip(choose your favourite flavour)

Quoted from ginnywings

Time for a change of personnel. Board, manager and players.

Besides that though everything is going swimmingly.

Good heavens, not again?

Let’s rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic one more time eh?

McKeown

Hendrie
Pollock
Ohman
Gibson

Wright
Clifton
Hessenthaler
Ogbu

Hanson
Vernam

Quoted from Abdul19

McKeown

Hendrie
Pollock
Ohman
Gibson

Wright
Clifton
Hessenthaler
Ogbu

Hanson
Vernam

Works for me but to be honest I think the shape is immaterial when our mid field lacks any form of creativity. We don’t have a mid field player who always wants the ball and it prepared to make themselves available at every opportunity

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Works for me but to be honest I think the shape is immaterial when our mid field lacks any form of creativity. We don’t have a mid field player who always wants the ball and it prepared to make themselves available at every opportunity

Yes we do Herts, Hess is always there, always makes himself available, unfortunately we have an habit of hoofing it up over our midfield, that's the bloody problem!!

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Yes we do Herts, Hess is always there, always makes himself available, unfortunately we have an habit of hoofing it up over our midfield, that's the bloody problem!!

I have a problem with Hess to be honest.

I think he looks a lot better than he actually is because he never, ever takes any risks. Neat and tidy, yes, but his first thought is always to go backwards or sidewards. We need a midfielder who can break through the lines or create something for the "strikers" and we haven't got one.

Jim Dobbin was neat and tidy, but he also created a lot of goals and scored a few as well. Being neat and tidy in this team is bringing zilch to our chances of winning a game, or heaven forbid, scoring a goal.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I have a problem with Hess to be honest.

I think he looks a lot better than he actually is because he never, ever takes any risks. Neat and tidy, yes, but his first thought is always to go backwards or sidewards. We need a midfielder who can break through the lines or create something for the "strikers" and we haven't got one.

Jim Dobbin was neat and tidy, but he also created a lot of goals and scored a few as well. Being neat and tidy in this team is bringing zilch to our chances of winning a game, or heaven forbid, scoring a goal.

Where as Whitehouse is basically a fitness instructor who gets the odd fluke ....offers nothing

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Yes we do Herts, Hess is always there, always makes himself available, unfortunately we have an habit of hoofing it up over our midfield, that's the bloody problem!!

I think he is actually the holding mid fielder in front of the back 4 we’ve been missing for ages, his goal record and lack of finishing ability testifies to that if only he has better around him.

Jolley said he used stats a lot that’s why Hess, Clifton and Whitehouse are all very similar they keep moving and cover ground but not in the channels in front of them, then again in a 4-3-3 there’s far too much for them to cover.

Finance some wingers in Jan with a view to playing a simple 4-4-2.  Until then, perhaps 4-3-1-2 or something similar would play to some of our strengths?

                                McKeown

Hendrie/Hewitt   Pollock     Waterfall       Gibson

         Clifton         Hessenthaler        Robson  

                             Vernam/Cook

                     Green/Ogbu       Wright

This can become a 4-4-2 when defending with adequate protection for the full-backs, but allows us to transition better in attack with a more advanced midfielder and plenty of counter attacking pace.  No point in playing Hanson without wingers IMO.

Hursty at a time like this would have us keeping us shape in a rigid 4-5-1.

Build a coherent defensive solidity and then build from that once a few points on the board and confidence builds after halting a negative slide.

Gotta be careful with all this ethos of how to play and expansive attacking football when so down in the doldrums and confidence shot at so we couldn't hit a barn door anyway half the time.

Needs must temporarily, build a solid foundation and then develop from there.

I normally avoid these type posts as it feels a bit Football Manager but the fact the club (by-word for Jolley I supposed) failed to address, or rather contributed, to the lack of balance in the squad is our biggest issue in my opinion.  

We've four centre-backs who are all very much about muchness.  Big lads, relatively solid in the air, no pace and with the exception of Pollock incapable of little else other than hoofing it.

Our midfielders are exactly the same.  Pure graft with very, very little creativity.  

Only one winger.

Host of strikers but nothing that really stands out as anything different.

The lack of width naturally leads to a 4-3-3 which because of the lack of confidence/real attacking intent results in a 4-5-1 and we're pegged further and further back.

At the back we've no alternative on the left so it's Gibson, that said he's probably one a few who are deserving of a start anyway.   On the other side I liked how Hewitt started the season whilst Hendrie was in poor form.  Hewitt has tailed off but I'm not sure if Hendrie is back on song either.  Hewitt offers more going forward and at a guess is quicker than Hendrie, in a defence that lacks pace anyway that's a big consideration.

In the middle of the defence Pollock should be first choice, his age is irrelevant.  He's our best centre-back.  Davis doesn't seem the same since his injury, which is a shame as he thought he was excellent in the opening games.  Waterfall doesn't impress me at all, he might well be a leader but he's exposed too often.  Ohman looks to have gone backwards a bit since he came over when he was dominant but I'd still have him in over Davis and Waterfall at present.

In the middle Hessenthaler is a must, back protecting the defence too rather than being pushed further forward.  I don't dislike Clifton but a) he's not in the best of form and b) he's not a holding midfielder. Whitehouse, I'm sorry to say I'm in agreement with those who wonder what he offers.  A lot of running about in circles.  Robson has something about him but he's incredibly inconsistent and I wonder if he sometimes has the heart for a battle.  That said he's the only midfielder we've got who can pick a pass out.   I'd go with Hendrie (not because I think it's his best position but because he is capable of keeping it tidy and things ticking over) alongside Hess in protecting a very vulnerable back four.  Robson pushed a bit further forward to try and make things happen.

Up top, I'm completely discounting Green.  I just don't see what he offers.  He's not exceptionally hard working.  He doesn't work off Hanson.  He doesn't win anything in the air.  He doesn't have the pace to go past people.  If anything he seems to spend a lot of time running into defenders or giving silly free-kicks away.  

Hanson is on a hiding to nothing at the minute as he's doing nothing but chasing down punts into the corner.  It's not his game and we're wasting a selection by asking him to do it.   He also looks like he could do with a rest.

In the absence of real creativity we surely have to turn to pace in the hope of unlocking sides.  That comes in the form of Wright and Rose, for me they would be either side of Ogbu.  In the absence of Hanson you would hope that we wouldn't be as inclined to go long every time and Ogbu, if nothing else, offers a little bit of unpredictability.  Which I think was the front three the last time we won against Exeter?

Hewitt Ohman Pollock Gibson
           Hess Hendrie
               Robson
Wright Ogbu Rose

Bloody desperate as hell and the lack of alternatives in the side is staggering.  

This.  Good post. Agree with your selections. Why not try that XI. Only Clifton unlucky to miss out really.

I actually think we are at a stage where the subs bench should be full of the youth teamers or those like Cardwell or Vernam who haven't had a chance.  You didn't mention Ring, who has been a bust, or Cook, who works hard but like Green, actually offers little.

Does anyone have a clue as to whether Buckley or Curran are anywhere near good enough?

So many off-form players, So little pace or width.  Hmm.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I normally avoid these type posts as it feels a bit Football Manager but the fact the club (by-word for Jolley I supposed) failed to address, or rather contributed, to the lack of balance in the squad is our biggest issue in my opinion.  

We've four centre-backs who are all very much about muchness.  Big lads, relatively solid in the air, no pace and with the exception of Pollock incapable of little else other than hoofing it.

Our midfielders are exactly the same.  Pure graft with very, very little creativity.  

Only one winger.

Host of strikers but nothing that really stands out as anything different.

The lack of width naturally leads to a 4-3-3 which because of the lack of confidence/real attacking intent results in a 4-5-1 and we're pegged further and further back.

At the back we've no alternative on the left so it's Gibson, that said he's probably one a few who are deserving of a start anyway.   On the other side I liked how Hewitt started the season whilst Hendrie was in poor form.  Hewitt has tailed off but I'm not sure if Hendrie is back on song either.  Hewitt offers more going forward and at a guess is quicker than Hendrie, in a defence that lacks pace anyway that's a big consideration.

In the middle of the defence Pollock should be first choice, his age is irrelevant.  He's our best centre-back.  Davis doesn't seem the same since his injury, which is a shame as he thought he was excellent in the opening games.  Waterfall doesn't impress me at all, he might well be a leader but he's exposed too often.  Ohman looks to have gone backwards a bit since he came over when he was dominant but I'd still have him in over Davis and Waterfall at present.

In the middle Hessenthaler is a must, back protecting the defence too rather than being pushed further forward.  I don't dislike Clifton but a) he's not in the best of form and b) he's not a holding midfielder. Whitehouse, I'm sorry to say I'm in agreement with those who wonder what he offers.  A lot of running about in circles.  Robson has something about him but he's incredibly inconsistent and I wonder if he sometimes has the heart for a battle.  That said he's the only midfielder we've got who can pick a pass out.   I'd go with Hendrie (not because I think it's his best position but because he is capable of keeping it tidy and things ticking over) alongside Hess in protecting a very vulnerable back four.  Robson pushed a bit further forward to try and make things happen.

Up top, I'm completely discounting Green.  I just don't see what he offers.  He's not exceptionally hard working.  He doesn't work off Hanson.  He doesn't win anything in the air.  He doesn't have the pace to go past people.  If anything he seems to spend a lot of time running into defenders or giving silly free-kicks away.  

Hanson is on a hiding to nothing at the minute as he's doing nothing but chasing down punts into the corner.  It's not his game and we're wasting a selection by asking him to do it.   He also looks like he could do with a rest.

In the absence of real creativity we surely have to turn to pace in the hope of unlocking sides.  That comes in the form of Wright and Rose, for me they would be either side of Ogbu.  In the absence of Hanson you would hope that we wouldn't be as inclined to go long every time and Ogbu, if nothing else, offers a little bit of unpredictability.  Which I think was the front three the last time we won against Exeter?

Hewitt Ohman Pollock Gibson
           Hess Hendrie
               Robson
Wright Ogbu Rose

Bloody desperate as hell and the lack of alternatives in the side is staggering.  

Good insight DHM.  Wright, Rose and Ogbu.  Pace and unpredictability.  Just the qualities to make opposing teams wary of our threat, to think about us and sit-back more.

Swindon often dominated our half and even our penalty area.  They knew that we did not have the pace and guile to hurt them on any counterattack.  (The game was already up when Rose and Wright came on.  Rose still managed to play with some desire).

We do have different options up front, if not in other areas.We never followed up how effective we were at scoring goals and winning well, as we were at Exeter.

(4-1-4-1)

Russell

Hewitt
Davis
Waterfall
Gibson

Hendrie

Wright
Hessenthaler
Robson
Ogbu (Cook if he was fit)

Hanson

Subs: McKeown, Öhman, Pollock, Whitehouse, Clifton (Ogbu if Cook was fit), Green & Rose.

Priority in January: finding a decent defensive midfielder and a winger. Offloading Ring & Vernam. Replacing Gibson & Robson if they are recalled.

Just back to basics 4-4- flipping two tried and tested it works players know what’s expected and it cover most bases

Quoted from diehardmariner

Host of strikers but nothing that really stands out as anything different.  

You could just as easily argue that we do not actually have any strikers.

For what it is worth I think Jolley brought in such a lopsided squad that it is hard to do anything else but 4-3-3 for a few games as you say. Perhaps a new manager might be able to persuade a couple of wide boys to join us in the New Year and give some options.

A big problem is lack of stability especially in defence. We need to stop fannying about with the selections and pick the best back four on the books to play every game with changes only for injury/suspension and work from there.

Hendrie is one of our faster outfield players - certainly quicker than Hewitt, though neither is really up to playing wing-back. I also don't rate Hendrie in midfield (though I'd prefer to see him there than Hewitt!).

Hewitt has that excellent cross on him from a rolling ball, but unfortunately, we've not really got him into a position to use it since the early stages of the season. He struggled against Swindon but then so did most of the team.

Davis in poor form recently but I'd say he's probably the best of our central defenders with the ball at his feet - that's not saying much, however. Gibson poor on Saturday as well, though he's generally been decent.

I'd say Ogbu is the one striker we have who offers something a lot different to the others but, after an encouraging start, he's just gone backwards. At this point in his career, Rose should be making appearances off the bench to gain the experience he missed when waiting for his visa. He has the physical capabilities (when fit) and the skill but needs to perhaps learn more about playing as a striker.

You know you've got problems with a lack of pace and attacking flair when a young lad with 4 League starts to his name is seen to be the potential saviour for the season.

Ultimately, we've got a lot of players with a bit of ability in one or two areas (and quite a few have played at a higher level) but none are outstanding in any particular regard and I'm not quite sure which formation would be best to link them together. Probably 4-4-2 or 4-5-1, truth be told. Unfashionable though it may be.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

(4-1-4-1)Priority in January: finding a decent defensive midfielder and a winger. Offloading Ring & Vernam. Replacing Gibson & Robson if they are recalled.

I'd be surprised if Gibson were recalled - surely he's nowhere near Newcastle's first team

Quoted from ex-merseymariner

I'd be surprised if Gibson were recalled - surely he's nowhere near Newcastle's first team

He might ask to be recalled!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

You could just as easily argue that we do not actually have any strikers.

For what it is worth I think Jolley brought in such a lopsided squad that it is hard to do anything else but 4-3-3 for a few games as you say. Perhaps a new manager might be able to persuade a couple of wide boys to join us in the New Year and give some options.

A big problem is lack of stability especially in defence. We need to stop fannying about with the selections and pick the best back four on the books to play every game with changes only for injury/suspension and work from there.

To go with the ones in the boardroom do you mean?  

Quoted from MarinerDevil

Finance some wingers in Jan with a view to playing a simple 4-4-2.  Until then, perhaps 4-3-1-2 or something similar would play to some of our strengths?

                                McKeown

Hendrie/Hewitt   Pollock     Waterfall       Gibson

         Clifton         Hessenthaler        Robson  

                             Vernam/Cook

                     Green/Ogbu       Wright

This can become a 4-4-2 when defending with adequate protection for the full-backs, but allows us to transition better in attack with a more advanced midfielder and plenty of counter attacking pace.  No point in playing Hanson without wingers IMO.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the word from JF that we have no money to spend.... so how exactly we can finance any new players I'm not sure

Quoted from Abdul19

He might ask to be recalled!

He doesn’t need to be recalled. His loan is up in January.

1. Get new manager.
2. Implement 442.
3. Try to move on one of the centre backs.
4. Try to move on one or more of Cook, Vernham and Ogbu because I don't really know what they do.
5. Use spare cash to get winger(s).
6. Get takeover done.

Quoted from BrMarin

1. Get new manager.
2. Implement 442.
3. Try to move on one of the centre backs.
4. Try to move on one or more of Cook, Vernham and Ogbu because I don't really know what they do.
5. Use spare cash to get winger(s).
6. Get takeover done.

All of which will never happen....nice try though..

Went to Cambridge. Painful to watch but a valuable point gained. Sounds obvious but start from a solid base, even if that means 5 4 1 or 5 3 2. Get some clean sheets and nick the odd 1 - 0 victory if possible.

Keep changing my mind but would be tempted to go with-
                                 Macca

Hendrie  Pollock Waterfall Ohman Gibson

Clifton     Robson      Hess    Wright

                             Hanson


BUT PLAY INTO HANSON'S FEET. The guy can play on the deck. He has the presence and intelligence to hold the ball and bring in runners (Clifton, Wright and Robson).

Quoted from Posh Harry

He doesn’t need to be recalled. His loan is up in January.

True, but then my epic bantz wouldn't be as hard hitting

I wouldnt mind seeing a 4-4-2 with Hanson and ogbu up front but who do you play out on the left? We have 1 winger in max Wright when realistically we need 3 or 4 in terms of squad depth to even play that.

Let's be honest with the current squad we have your either playing narrow or putting square pegs in round holes. Feel as though we need to be making some moves in the transfer window if we hope to try and get things right on the pitch.

Until reinforcements in January, Wright on the left and Clifton on the right???

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Just back to basics 4-4- flipping two tried and tested it works players know what’s expected and it cover most bases

We've had various managers try all sorts of different formations over the years and they never work. They could work but the type of players you need are way out of our price range.

As you say, 442 works and the players understand it

Why can't they adapt to any other formation than 4  4  2. It is their fxxxing job!!!!

It isn't the 90s, Buckley isn't the manager and we don't have Childs, Rees, Cockerill etc. Why can't we move on? The rest of football has.

And when whatever formation doesn't work as well, we all cry out to change to such and such a one?

Before we know it we doing our own Jolley-esque formational merry-go-round, exactly what he was vilified for 🤔