Total failure by Jolley to strengthen Midfield

Might just be the worst midfied Ive ever seen.

Will you do one and climb back under your bridge and do us all a favour..

Hessenthaler gets 8 out of 10 every week and does nothing.

Like H Clifton - great energy but not much creativity

Whitehouse - up and down but lacks class

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

Might just be the worst midfied Ive ever seen.

Shut up go back under your rock we've lost to one of the favourites to go up did you expect us to be undefeated all season?

Think you need to stay on Championship manager mate

Quoted from CodHead

Shut up go back under your rock we've lost to one of the favourites to go up did you expect us to be undefeated all season?

its a fair question, and a fair assessment....shame no one at present is able to provide a defence for Jolley....

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

its a fair question, and a fair assessment....shame no one at present is able to provide a defence for Jolley....

Sorry we've lost 1 game let's get some Jolley Out banners made

We have a busy and workmanlike midfield.
We would all like a creative quality midfielder but the accusation made on this thread is utter nonsense

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

We have a busy and workmanlike midfield.
We would all like a creative quality midfielder but the accusation made on this thread is utter nonsense

so that's an admission that the midfield lacks creativity, and that Im wrong to blame Jolley...

not sure which fence you are sitting on, but you are definitely sat down

Quoted from CodHead

Sorry we've lost 1 game let's get some Jolley Out banners made

Im happy for him to stay til October,,,,see if he gets anyone in that can link the frontmen, and stop playing for corners and throw ins

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

Might just be the worst midfied Ive ever seen.

Not watched much football in your life then?

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

Im happy for him to stay til October,,,,see if he gets anyone in that can link the frontmen, and stop playing for corners and throw ins

Ever heard of playing to your strengths?
We aren't Man City we don't have the players to play Tiki Taka football  

Don’t rise to him. He’s clearly fishing.

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

Hessenthaler gets 8 out of 10 every week and does nothing.

Like H Clifton - great energy but not much creativity

Whitehouse - up and down but lacks class

I'll ask you a question, do you actually know anything about football??...
Hessenthaler is superb at what he dies, breaks up attacks, protects the back 4 and uses the ball simply and efficiently...
Whitehouse gives you the box to box player who is always in the right place to collect the ball.
And in all honesty I'd puck Vernham or Cook in before Clifton...
Just understand one thing, we are Grimsby Town FC...not Barcelona....

Quoted from CodHead

Ever heard of playing to your strengths?
We aren't Man City we don't have the players to play Tiki Taka football  

perhaps, but the odd decent pass into the frontmen isn't too much to ask is it?

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

Might just be the worst midfied Ive ever seen.

Another exciting Saturday night at yours I see.

Here we go 😂

Quoted from LH

Another exciting Saturday night at yours I see.

Is that Saturday night takeaway with Ant and Dec

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'll ask you a question, do you actually know anything about football??...
Hessenthaler is superb at what he dies, breaks up attacks, protects the back 4 and uses the ball simply and efficiently...
Whitehouse gives you the box to box player who is always in the right place to collect the ball.
And in all honesty I'd puck Vernham or Cook in before Clifton...
Just understand one thing, we are Grimsby Town FC...not Barcelona....

i know enough to understand that if you dont get the front players in the game, via a creative middle, you dont win games.

We had 30 percent of possession, that says to me we can't really get a foothold in the middle of the park, Hess does very little from an attacking perspective, and ask yourself how many goals that current 3 will give us this season,,,id suspect 10 might be about it.

Whitehouse in fairness probably needs 15-20 games before an assessment is made, Cook isn't strong enough, and Vernam I think is better wide, bit wide players are not what Jolley wants

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

perhaps, but the odd decent pass into the frontmen isn't too much to ask is it?

Does the through ball from Clifton to put Green through against Bradford count?

Quoted from sam gy

Does the through ball from Clifton to put Green through against Bradford count?

no....we scored from a corner, which is what i think is the main game plan...

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

i know enough to understand that if you dont get the front players in the game, via a creative middle, you dont win games.

We had 30 percent of possession, that says to me we can't really get a foothold in the middle of the park, Hess does very little from an attacking perspective, and ask yourself how many goals that current 3 will give us this season,,,id suspect 10 might be about it.

Whitehouse in fairness probably needs 15-20 games before an assessment is made, Cook isn't strong enough, and Vernam I think is better wide, bit wide players are not what Jolley wants

Whitehouse needs 15-20 games before an assessment is made but it’s OK to throw Pollock in with a handful of substitute appearances.

Right.

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

i know enough to understand that if you dont get the front players in the game, via a creative middle, you dont win games.

We had 30 percent of possession, that says to me we can't really get a foothold in the middle of the park, Hess does very little from an attacking perspective, and ask yourself how many goals that current 3 will give us this season,,,id suspect 10 might be about it.

Whitehouse in fairness probably needs 15-20 games before an assessment is made, Cook isn't strong enough, and Vernam I think is better wide, bit wide players are not what Jolley wants

Don't you??...think Lincoln smashed this league without a decent midfield last season?...
Granted, Premier league/Championship you need that creativity by virtue of the quality of defence they are up against but in league 2 the way in which the game is played is not pretty and never will be...
Our problem right now is we are playing too direct and not mixing it up, plus today we came up against a team that is renowned for possession so regardless of who we had in midfield would have made no difference...
On the balance of play we had more shots on target and more possibilities in the final third, just unfortunately we didn't manage to convert...

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Whitehouse needs 15-20 games before an assessment is made but it’s OK to throw Pollock in with a handful of substitute appearances.

Right.

?

not sure that i was including Pollock in any assesment, way too young at this stage.  My criticism is of the manager for clearly going 4-3-3, and not providing the required quality of player to support that system.

Never mind, Hamson will get an award for most balls won in the air, so we can all party out on that

I think this is the strongest we have been for a while all over the pitch but i do think we lack a creative midfielder.

By no means a dig and happy the way we have played so far just a constructive observation.

Bring in a more creative midfielder and i cant think were we can complain.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

I think this is the strongest we have been for a while all over the pitch but i do think we lack a creative midfielder.

By no means a dig and happy the way we have played so far just a constructive observation.

Bring in a more creative midfielder and i cant think were we can complain.

so who would you drop? if such a creative player was found...

Id be dropping clifton

Quoted from Hagrid

Id be dropping clifton

be Hess for me, Clifton has the better engine, and is involved in the game.....might get 4-5 goals as well, which is more than Hessenthaler

Even i think it is far too early to start having a pop. very early days for a team with 5 or so new players against a well drilled side . Every team wants a midfield master but they dont come cheap and are few and far between at this level

Think this thread has run its course
Come back when u have calmed down or sobered up

Think this thread has run its course
Come back when u have calmed down or sobered up

Think this thread has run its course
Come back when u have calmed down or sobered up

Maybe not even drop anyone... Why cant he be bought off the bench?

For games were we cant break them down and looking for a goal.

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

no....we scored from a corner, which is what i think is the main game plan...

So when you say ‘decent pass’ you mean an assist? Are we only judging our midfield on whether they get an assist or not? Let me know what the rules are.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

Think this thread has run its course
Come back when u have calmed down or sobered up

really?


ok will do only on condition that you do the same when you have removed your head from the sand

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

really?


ok will do only on condition that you do the same when you have removed your head from the sand

You are a troll sonny, go back to join your little friends in the little boys paddock.

What a stupid thread ....

Game 1 - Won away at a side that are tipped for the drop.

Game 2 - Came back from behind versus a relegated side who have spent some cash and have more to spend

Game 3 - Won at home versus a side that are a league above us and play decent football

Game 4 - Lost away at a side who have decent resources (FFP and will be in the mix if not automatic this season.

We need creativity for sure but pretty much every side in the 4th Division does and always has had.

Get a f*****ng grip.

Not to feed the troll but Elliot Whitehouse has been added to the team after playing zero games last year.

Im sure Jolley has tried to add and probably still is, but we don't want a guff signing for signings sake. Got to be a useful addition to what with have and of the right character too. And be local or willing to relocate.

This creative midfielder idea is a load of cobblers in the present lower leagues. Nobody has a player with that job spec. If we did it would be less than 5 minutes before somebody was yelling he doesn’t tackle/track back/cover the grass .......

In any case it isn’t what the side needs. Despite 3 good signings up front we still are firing blanks. We needed Morecambe’s defence to gift us two goals for a win and we had opportunities to beat Bradford. Just one goal from a sniffer would have done it. Even Hanson for all his aerial dominance failed to hit the target today. These are experienced strikers we have up there. The club is full to bursting with strikers. Why on earth can’t we get them to hit the ball properly on target and wide of the keeper? Please don’t let’s get hung up on creativity. This league is about hard work, pace and finishing.

Would The Boys Paddock care to list the affordable creative midfielders Mr Jolley should have bought in the summer

The Boys Paddock, you sound like a right sharp object 😂

Get a grip and support your team and enjoy your evening dark cloud 🤣

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

Might just be the worst midfied Ive ever seen.

Might just be the worst post I’ve ever seen! Get a grip

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

so that's an admission that the midfield lacks creativity, and that Im wrong to blame Jolley...

not sure which fence you are sitting on, but you are definitely sat down

How we lacking? We had 13 shots all be it only 2 on target.. FGR had 9.. does their midfield lack creativity then?.. your a clown

Quoted from Pogo

How we lacking? We had 13 shots all be it only 2 on target.. FGR had 9.. does their midfield lack creativity then?.. your a clown

I wouldn't give him the credit of being a clown...at lest they make people laugh..unless you're comparing him to Stephen King's "IT"...

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

This creative midfielder idea is a load of cobblers in the present lower leagues. Nobody has a player with that job spec. If we did it would be less than 5 minutes before somebody was yelling he doesn’t tackle/track back/cover the grass .......

In any case it isn’t what the side needs. Despite 3 good signings up front we still are firing blanks. We needed Morecambe’s defence to gift us two goals for a win and we had opportunities to beat Bradford. Just one goal from a sniffer would have done it. Even Hanson for all his aerial dominance failed to hit the target today. These are experienced strikers we have up there. The club is full to bursting with strikers. Why on earth can’t we get them to hit the ball properly on target and wide of the keeper? Please don’t let’s get hung up on creativity. This league is about hard work, pace and finishing.

Agree with this, especially the highlighted part. Our problem still is scoring goals, as it has been for a good while. The type of team that goes places is one that would have put away at least one of the chances we created yesterday, and would have left with a point or three.

Although it's not very pretty to watch, the style of play we have adopted this season is the way to go in League 2, but you have to take a good percentage of the few chances that come along. We are four games into the season and we have scored four goals. We are quite tight at the back on initial impressions, so we won't have to score a boatload to pick up points, but i think we will see a lot of games decided by the odd goal either way, and quite a few draws. Unless we can get the ball in the net a bit more regularly, we will have another mid table season. It seems a long time since we had a healthy goal difference.

Quoted from ginnywings

Agree with this, especially the highlighted part. Our problem still is scoring goals, as it has been for a good while. The type of team that goes places is one that would have put away at least one of the chances we created yesterday, and would have left with a point or three.

Although it's not very pretty to watch, the style of play we have adopted this season is the way to go in League 2, but you have to take a good percentage of the few chances that come along. We are four games into the season and we have scored four goals. We are quite tight at the back on initial impressions, so we won't have to score a boatload to pick up points, but i think we will see a lot of games decided by the odd goal either way, and quite a few draws. Unless we can get the ball in the net a bit more regularly, we will have another mid table season. It seems a long time since we had a healthy goal difference.

the point you quote is absolute balderdash, Hanson has scored goals, do you think all of them where from inside his own half, or he made them himself. We dont score goals, because we dont create enough chances, it really is that simple. Joleey needs to sort this and sort it now..the football is middle of the road garbage, and its about time that he realised it. Same garbage, same season.

[img]https://imgshare.io/image/ZWDa8[/img]

Oversimplified but 15 shots away compared to their 10 says we created plenty of opportunity. An off day from Hanson when he should have scored a few times nothing to do with the midfields lack of creativity.

We've had more shots and more shots on target than the opposition in all three of the league games we've played.

A more balanced 'post' title would be 'Concerned over lack of creativity in midfield'

If the original poster had offered a more nuanced argument I would have far more sympathy

'Total failure'? Over the top garbage. I think MJ has consistently said he is trying to get a creative type into the club and I assume that search continues

'Strengthen' - Elliott Whitehouse is (in many ways) a new signing and has strengthened things

The concern is - and it is a genuine concern - that all three midfielders are of a type; strong running, combative, 100% committed, great engines etc but lacking the craft and guile to serve up quality delivery

Having said all of that our strikers were wasteful yesterday so perhaps not a huge issue?

So, like any successful blend in any football team, you need balance between those attributes and flair (1966 World Cup - Charlton, Ball and Stiles being an obvious example)

Problem comes I believe is the fact GTFC are a long way down pecking order for attracting creative midfielders and goal-machine forwards in terms of splashing cash

We are obviously going more direct this season - that's fine (even though I prefer passing) - but even the Godfather of long ball at BP - Slade - found room for creative types (eg: Woodhouse).

I always feel long ball football has its limitations - teams can be sussed out and tactics put in place to prevent them being so effective; so you do need an alternative and balance in the squad

I don't think it is a massive handicap at this stage having the current midfield but an 'Osborne/Embleton' type (in the former's case for his qualities on the pitch) would give a far greater balance and more options...Harry probably giving way

But again, 4/6pts from next two games and the argument should go away... such is the nature of the game

Hoping, at some point, to see Hewitt in centre mid in what he says is his preferred position. Probably Harry dropping out.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Hoping, at some point, to see Hewitt in centre mid in what he says is his preferred position. Probably Harry dropping out.

We've already seen it against doncaster and whilst he wasn't poor I would say he was fairly anonymous, doesn't have the engine and positivity of clifton or the interception abilities of hess. Maybe Hewitt can do better than that game but he would have to show it.

Quoted from The Boys Paddock

the point you quote is absolute balderdash, Hanson has scored goals, do you think all of them where from inside his own half, or he made them himself. We dont score goals, because we dont create enough chances, it really is that simple. Joleey needs to sort this and sort it now..the football is middle of the road garbage, and its about time that he realised it. Same garbage, same season.

Well, it's an opinion, but if you want to call it absolute bollox, then fire away. Facts are facts, and we created more chances than they did, so your argument falls down there somewhat.

Most League 2 football is middle of the road garbage, and the teams that succeed at this level, are the ones who win the most duels and second balls, not the teams who play one touch, flowing football. It's more about speed, strength and stamina than it is about guile. We could just as easily come away from there with a 1-0 win, but we didn't take any of our chances and they did.

My note to self worked.

I didn’t bite this time 😇

Quoted from Posh Harry

My note to self worked.

I didn’t bite this time 😇

I wish I'd listened to my own advice, the troll sucked me in on this one😂😂

Quoted from Rik e B

[img]https://imgshare.io/image/ZWDa8[/img]

Oversimplified but 15 shots away compared to their 10 says we created plenty of opportunity. An off day from Hanson when he should have scored a few times nothing to do with the midfields lack of creativity.

Exactly. But we need to get at least one goal a game to be in with a chance of being at the top end of this league.  We have 3 strikers up there and whatever Hurst thinks about strikers, that is their job description after all. The chances were there. Not taken.

Just watching the Sheffield v Palace game and although they are trying to play Man City style I would argue that there isn't a midfielder on show who is putting defence splitting passes through or is controlling the pace and flow of the game, in fact it's quite frantic. I think we have all seen Barcelona and believe any professional footballer can do what they do, I'm sorry but hey are basically the exception to the rule. At the end of the day if we keep picking up points and are somewhere near the playoffs then I think honk we would all be quite happy.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Exactly. But we need to get at least one goal a game to be in with a chance of being at the top end of this league.  We have 3 strikers up there and whatever Hurst thinks about strikers, that is their job description after all. The chances were there. Not taken.

Hurst? I know Jolley is from Yorkshire but they don’t all look the same you know! 😄

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Exactly. But we need to get at least one goal a game to be in with a chance of being at the top end of this league.  We have 3 strikers up there and whatever Hurst thinks about strikers, that is their job description after all. The chances were there. Not taken.

Looks like the last few seasons' play-off teams have averaged between 1.3 and 1.5 goals per game, to give you an idea.  Champions usually get closer to 2pg.  

We have a higher than average expected goals statistic so far which suggests we're creating good quality chances.  I think the issue is that because our midfielders are extremely similar players, we can't readily change our approach mid-game.  We need a player that we can rely on to unlock doors when our usual route fails.  It's a real shame Osborne didn't work out.  Hopefully we can use Wright's pace and directness well during the season to give us a different angle.

What an absolute pathetic thread this one is!

We created chances yesterday - unfortunately we didn’t do that one thing that they did and that’s put the ball in the back of the net!

We made things happen and we threatened in fact we had more chances than they did -

If we had come away with a 1-0 win would this thread even exist?? Simple answer - No

Get a grip! It’s League 2 (Div 4) we have a decent hard working side - this weekend they failed to score - it happens - let’s not be creating such ridiculous threads every time it does happen

Bang on, although really this thread only exists as a bunch of responses to one plainly dramatic over reaction from one person. It’s not as if there are already a bunch of doom mongers really. That, in itself, is also an overreaction.

It’s a pathetic thread because the OP keeps getting a response to his pathetic trolling.
He’s probably got through three boxes of Kleenex already.
If you feed them They will come 😕

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Hurst? I know Jolley is from Yorkshire but they don’t all look the same you know! 😄

They don’t sound alike either!

Quoted from Civvy at last

It’s a pathetic thread because the OP keeps getting a response to his pathetic trolling.
He’s probably got through three boxes of Kleenex already.
If you feed them They will come 😕

Ooh I say!

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

They don’t sound alike either!

Thank Christ for that! It's bad enough that there's one Mogadon Man on Humberside Sport each Saturday.

Forgetting the fact this original poster was only trying to get a reaction out of us, can I ask, does anyone on here think that maybe the solution to our midfield problem (if at all there even is one) already exists within the squad?  If Jolley persists with 3 midfielders, surely we have 4 central players to choose from in Clifton, Hessenthaler, Whitehouse and Hewitt to take 2 of those spots, and the modern-day Number 10 is a straight choice from either Cook or Vernam?  Those two have guile, and the other two Jolley chooses have the muscle and engine, no matter which two he goes with.

Anyway, just a thought.

Just watched the highlights, and whilst I do believe we still need a creative midfielder, there is still a bit of a myth going round that without one, we are stuffed.

on a 2min clip of highlights, we had 3 very decent chances, where we should score, so we did create chances on Saturday

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Just watched the highlights, and whilst I do believe we still need a creative midfielder, there is still a bit of a myth going round that without one, we are stuffed.

on a 2min clip of highlights, we had 3 very decent chances, where we should score, so we did create chances on Saturday

The problem is, and will continue to be, the same one which has plagued us since Bogle and Amond left, lack of someone who can put the ball in the net from the 'decent chances' we are creating. 2 out of the 3 on Saturday woulkd have done

Quoted from Heisenberg

Forgetting the fact this original poster was only trying to get a reaction out of us, can I ask, does anyone on here think that maybe the solution to our midfield problem (if at all there even is one) already exists within the squad?  If Jolley persists with 3 midfielders, surely we have 4 central players to choose from in Clifton, Hessenthaler, Whitehouse and Hewitt to take 2 of those spots, and the modern-day Number 10 is a straight choice from either Cook or Vernam?  Those two have guile, and the other two Jolley chooses have the muscle and engine, no matter which two he goes with.

If we are going to play 433 then a "No 10" cannot be part of the midfield 3, it would leave us extremely vulnerable when we lose the ball. All three need the engine to get up and down IMO which is why it is three from HC, JH, EW & EH rather then 2 of them plus CV, etc.

Why are people even responding? 7 pages flipping hell.

Quoted from Son of Cod

Why are people even responding? 7 pages flipping hell.

A question you can now ask yourself.

30 crosses a game is the requirement. They can come from anyone but if you cross the ball into the box 30 times, you should score at least once.

Mix the crosses up, near post, far post, long, short, low, driven, deep, byline etc. Some will deflect out for a corner, some will ricochet but providing we have players running into the box we will create chances and score goals.

Quoted from pizzzza

If we are going to play 433 then a "No 10" cannot be part of the midfield 3, it would leave us extremely vulnerable when we lose the ball. All three need the engine to get up and down IMO which is why it is three from HC, JH, EW & EH rather then 2 of them plus CV, etc.

OK, maybe I explained it poorly.  I get what you mean, we're not playing a new-style number 10 behind the strikers, but are Cook and Vernam perfectly good central midfielders to add a bit of sparkle to an already solid central 3?  So in essence, Cook or Vernam to replace one of the established 3 central midfielders?

Quoted from jamesgtfc

30 crosses a game is the requirement. They can come from anyone but if you cross the ball into the box 30 times, you should score at least once.

Mix the crosses up, near post, far post, long, short, low, driven, deep, byline etc. Some will deflect out for a corner, some will ricochet but providing we have players running into the box we will create chances and score goals.

I think the above is the principle that Graham Taylor worked on at Watford, it's from a gentleman called Charles Hughes, and he was associated with the FA at one stage, no wonder England couldn't compete with the pass and move top national sides. In theory it will be relatively successful, not pretty to watch, but the Cowleys are getting results.