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Has he gone yet.!!

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Gaffer58
June 28, 2019, 9:06pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


The difference is most of the money he put into the club was a loan. Not quite the same as your example. He’s more like the bank who loaned the dealership money with a debenture over the cars and premises. Smart business move on his part. Gave him control with minimal risk.

So. I agree. He hasn’t really bailed out the club.


So if I borrow £100k from the bank, against my house, and buy Brigg Town, then up the players match fees, over to what the annual income is, but loan the club money to cover this loss, but after 2/3 years get fed up and put the club up for sale, I can expect the new buyer to cover my loans/losss.
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Bigdog
June 28, 2019, 9:31pm
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Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90


Not having a go but why would he not try to get his money he put in back, that would only be natural surely?

As far as I am aware he never professed to "gifting" the club the money. As has been shown in the accounts in the last couple of years he has recouped a small amount, reducing the amount owed to him so obviously in the long term regardless of if this take over happens he is going to eventually recoup his money.

Not sure why people think he would just walk away without at least getting his money he has invested back, regardless of achievements or lack of it just is not the way it works with football clubs.



It's not the way it works for football clubs at all. There are many, many owners who have had to write off fortunes due to not being able to progress their club's value.

Think it's better to leave JF and the potential investor(s) in peace, give them some breathing space to thrash out a deal that suits both parties, and we can assess it from there..
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139914
June 28, 2019, 9:56pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


The difference is most of the money he put into the club was a loan. Not quite the same as your example. He’s more like the bank who loaned the dealership money with a debenture over the cars and premises. Smart business move on his part. Gave him control with minimal risk.

So. I agree. He hasn’t really bailed out the club.


What’s the issue here, that he hasn’t squandered his privately accumulated fortune on the club?  Bottom line  is this, he was prepared to guarantee the football clubs debt, who else was?  He wants his money back, don’t blame him.  Let’s not get into the realms of ‘if I won £50m on the lottery I’d buy the club and do blah blah blah.

Personally I think he’s an egomaniac, his stewardship isn’t something for any rational person to gloat over, countless poor decisions, countless poor appointments.  However, whilst in relative terms a rich man his funds aren’t limitless.  The club still exists, if that’s his legacy then he deserves gratitude for that alone.
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KingstonMariner
June 28, 2019, 10:03pm
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Quoted from Gaffer58


So if I borrow £100k from the bank, against my house, and buy Brigg Town, then up the players match fees, over to what the annual income is, but loan the club money to cover this loss, but after 2/3 years get fed up and put the club up for sale, I can expect the new buyer to cover my loans/losss.


Not what I’m saying. I’m pointing out that despite what some people say he hasn’t bailed the club out. He made a smart business move.

If he wants any credit then he needs to be prepared to take a loss.

Yes, as a secured creditor he can expect his money back. But going for that pound of flesh undermines any claim he has on having saved the club or kept it going.

So I’m sort of agreeing with you but addressing the arguments put forward in favour of him being entitled to his money back.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Malta_Mariner_90
June 28, 2019, 10:05pm
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Quoted from Bigdog


It's not the way it works for football clubs at all. There are many, many owners who have written off fortunes due to not being able to progress their club's value.

Think it's better to leave JF and the potential investor(s) in peace, give them some breathing space to thrash out a deal that suits both parties, and we can assess it from there..


I think maybe I did not make my point very well. Those who may have written of fortunes would be because no fornicator would pay them a penny for the debt ridden club they are trying to offload hence administration for so many FL clubs in the last 20-30 years, new owners would just wait (in some cases the same owners as before (Leicester I think?) clear the debts for a fraction of the real cost and take over (take a look at whats going on at Notts C probably will happen there).

In our situation If someone is going to "buy" the club off Fenty then of course he is not going to say "sure have it, we will chuck the old floodlights in for free as well." He will definitely be trying to factor in his loans with the club one way or the other.  

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MuddyWaters
June 28, 2019, 10:08pm
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Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90


I think maybe I did not make my point very well. Those who may have written of fortunes would be because no fornicator would pay them a penny for the debt ridden club they are trying to offload hence administration for so many FL clubs in the last 20-30 years, new owners would just wait (in some cases the same owners as before (Leicester I think?) clear the debts for a fraction of the real cost and take over (take a look at whats going on at Notts C probably will happen there).

In our situation If someone is going to "buy" the club off Fenty then of course he is not going to say "sure have it, we will chuck the old floodlights in for free as well." He will definitely be trying to factor in his loans with the club one way or the other.  



For me, it’s not about the loans or the cost of shares, it’s about what the current custodian has cost the club in lost revenue, league position and infrastructure.

When all of that is analysed, it’s all negative.
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Malta_Mariner_90
June 28, 2019, 10:13pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


For me, it’s not about the loans or the cost of shares, it’s about what the current custodian has cost the club in lost revenue, league position and infrastructure.

When all of that is analysed, it’s all negative.


Of course, I agree if you were to put a value on the club from before Fenty took over and now it could not be higher lets put it that way.

But the new owner has also to take on the clubs debts as well when purchasing and either he clears them on purchasing or they remain and are repaid later. And as we all know the only real debt is with Fenty. So one way or the other it is not just going to be written off as some would like to think would happen.
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KingstonMariner
June 28, 2019, 10:13pm
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Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90


I think maybe I did not make my point very well. Those who may have written of fortunes would be because no fornicator would pay them a penny for the debt ridden club they are trying to offload hence administration for so many FL clubs in the last 20-30 years, new owners would just wait (in some cases the same owners as before (Leicester I think?) clear the debts for a fraction of the real cost and take over (take a look at whats going on at Notts C probably will happen there).

In our situation If someone is going to "buy" the club off Fenty then of course he is not going to say "sure have it, we will chuck the old floodlights in for free as well." He will definitely be trying to factor in his loans with the club one way or the other.  



You could be right on owners writing off money if no one else was prepared to pay. We could end up with a situation here where the prospective buyer pulls out because he perceives the club as not being worth the price being demanded. The sale falls through and JF goes down as the man who put his narrow interests in front of the club’s.

Always assuming of course that Shuteses has the best interests of the club/town at heart too. But if the deal falls down because of the price there will always be that big question.

If I was a big shot in my home town I wouldn’t want that question hanging over me.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Bigdog
June 28, 2019, 10:15pm
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Quoted from Malta_Mariner_90


I think maybe I did not make my point very well. Those who may have written of fortunes would be because no fornicator would pay them a penny for the debt ridden club they are trying to offload hence administration for so many FL clubs in the last 20-30 years, new owners would just wait (in some cases the same owners as before (Leicester I think?) clear the debts for a fraction of the real cost and take over (take a look at whats going on at Notts C probably will happen there).

In our situation If someone is going to "buy" the club off Fenty then of course he is not going to say "sure have it, we will chuck the old floodlights in for free as well." He will definitely be trying to factor in his loans with the club one way or the other.  



With the controlling interest share value of around 1m and loans to pay off circa 1.6m, 2.6m before additional investment is a hefty price for a club with only 0.5m in realisable assets. My instinct tells me that JF will compromise somewhat with the loans if he wants a clean break. If he doesn't want a clean break, I reckon the full amount of loans outstanding may have to be paid over a lengthy period. But then again, who knows exactly who is fully behind the bid for the club, what is fully planned for the club (and town) going forward, and how much money is behind him (them)?
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Malta_Mariner_90
June 28, 2019, 10:21pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


You could be right on owners writing off money if no one else was prepared to pay. We could end up with a situation here where the prospective buyer pulls out because he perceives the club as not being worth the price being demanded. The sale falls through and JF goes down as the man who put his narrow interests in front of the club’s.

Always assuming of course that Shuteses has the best interests of the club/town at heart too. But if the deal falls down because of the price there will always be that big question.

If I was a big shot in my home town I wouldn’t want that question hanging over me.


I think these people are commonly know as tyre kickers  
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