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GTFC Going for it?

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1mickylyons
June 18, 2019, 12:21pm Report to Moderator
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The 2 signings so far suggest to me seem to signal a statement of intent if nothing else then in terms of wage structure being altered I can`t see either being cheap in League 2 terms ? Really hoping these are the first of half a dozen or so quality signings and I just wonder who is agreeing to bankroll it?
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lew chaterleys lover
June 18, 2019, 12:30pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1mickylyons
The 2 signings so far suggest to me seem to signal a statement of intent if nothing else then in terms of wage structure being altered I can`t see either being cheap in League 2 terms ? Really hoping these are the first of half a dozen or so quality signings and I just wonder who is agreeing to bankroll it?


Bankrolling? We have signed two forwards which were desperately needed to even get us to mid-table.
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1mickylyons
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Bankrolling? We have signed two forwards which were desperately needed to even get us to mid-table.


My point is Lew it must have been agreed to get players in and meet higher wage demands if required . Both these players will command higher wages than I bet we have paid out pro rata for years?
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1mickylyons
June 18, 2019, 12:34pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


My point is Lew it must have been agreed to get players in and meet higher wage demands if required . Both these players will command higher wages than I bet we have paid out pro rata for years?


Which by the way I whole heartedley agree with.
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Cricklewoodmariner
June 18, 2019, 12:45pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1mickylyons
The 2 signings so far suggest to me seem to signal a statement of intent if nothing else then in terms of wage structure being altered I can`t see either being cheap in League 2 terms ? Really hoping these are the first of half a dozen or so quality signings and I just wonder who is agreeing to bankroll it?


Lets see if you're still saying that at the end of the window. 2 decent (on paper) signings out of how many needed to be challenging the top of the table?
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from 1mickylyons
The 2 signings so far suggest to me seem to signal a statement of intent if nothing else then in terms of wage structure being altered I can`t see either being cheap in League 2 terms ? Really hoping these are the first of half a dozen or so quality signings and I just wonder who is agreeing to bankroll it?


Like me, we keep hoping Micky.



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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1mickylyons
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Quoted from Cricklewoodmariner


Lets see if you're still saying that at the end of the window. 2 decent (on paper) signings out of how many needed to be challenging the top of the table?


Read the original post I agree ideally think Town needed around 6 quality additions and probably a couple more squad players  2 attackers DONE 2 midfielders and 4 defenders
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1mickylyons
June 18, 2019, 1:06pm Report to Moderator
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Like me, we keep hoping Micky.



I don`t hear anywhere near as many rumours as I would like to BUT I will say I was expecting a signing from Derby according to information recieved .A few high end loanee youngsters in the mould of Embleton and I will be chomping at the bit for August . Nice of Town to push the boat out rather than put a sticking plaster over the holes in the rubber dinghy for a change.
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Heisenberg
June 18, 2019, 1:15pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


I don`t hear anywhere near as many rumours as I would like to BUT I will say I was expecting a signing from Derby according to information recieved .A few high end loanee youngsters in the mould of Embleton and I will be chomping at the bit for August . Nice of Town to push the boat out rather than put a sticking plaster over the holes in the rubber dinghy for a change.


Are we pushing the boat out, really?  None of us really know that.  So far,  a few players have left, and now the money saved from that is being used to bring other players in.  No transfer fees paid.  Presumably the highest earner (McKeown) remains so.  Currently the playing staff are coming in under budget, or at least I hope so as we need to make more signings.

I'm sceptical of 'senior' players being signed as there aren't many like Futcher or Birtles who really add anything, but I remain hopeful.  I'm hoping for a relatively small squad of quality.  So far we have lots of youth players in the squad, and I feel they will HAVE to step up this season and not just make up the numbers, otherwise we'll be in a relegation scrap again.
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1mickylyons
June 18, 2019, 1:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Heisenberg


Are we pushing the boat out, really?  None of us really know that.  So far,  a few players have left, and now the money saved from that is being used to bring other players in.  No transfer fees paid.  Presumably the highest earner (McKeown) remains so.  Currently the playing staff are coming in under budget, or at least I hope so as we need to make more signings.

I'm sceptical of 'senior' players being signed as there aren't many like Futcher or Birtles who really add anything, but I remain hopeful.  I'm hoping for a relatively small squad of quality.  So far we have lots of youth players in the squad, and I feel they will HAVE to step up this season and not just make up the numbers, otherwise we'll be in a relegation scrap again.


Like Cricklewood says we will have to wait and see what we end up with but you can`t argue that these 2 incomings are anything but quality league 2 signings . I am optimistic that more will follow and Hanson in interview gives that pointer so let`s enjoy today`s news and cross our fingers for more.
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Black_and_White_Bear
June 18, 2019, 1:28pm Report to Moderator

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Wow, so much negativity on the forum and we aren't even in pre-season yet!


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Heisenberg
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


Like Cricklewood says we will have to wait and see what we end up with but you can`t argue that these 2 incomings are anything but quality league 2 signings . I am optimistic that more will follow and Hanson in interview gives that pointer so let`s enjoy today`s news and cross our fingers for more.


Yeah, I'm with you really, I need to lighten up!

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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Wow, so much negativity on the forum and we aren't even in pre-season yet!


It is a reaction against all the stupid hype we have seen over the past few years that have led to little except a belated promotion.

Can’t really blame people for being pessimistic or sceptical about signings they have hardly heard of who may not be over the hill but are not in the first flush of youth either. One thing about being a pessimist, we are rarely disappointed.

The game has changed and the fortunes of this club have changed at the same time - an unfortunate coincidence when it comes to attracting and signing players. We have enough “older heads” in the squad now, I would tend to agree with Micky that what we need are some long term loans from the Championship or Div 1 to bring the sort of quality and energy we got from Embleton last year. Either that or take a punt on some non-leaguers.



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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chaos33
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Or both.

I think the two strikers we’ve signed could be regarded as really positive although there might be some understandable reservations about their age/fitness.


We still need a few more players to pull us up to competitive quality in my view. I’d like us to acquire a at least 2 quality defenders, at least 2 quality central midfielders, one of whom should be of the Embleton type and at least one quality wide player, maybe two. Max Wright is promising but is a kid. Hanson and Green will require crosses to be seen to best effect. We must set our stall out that way.


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rancido
June 18, 2019, 5:50pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from 1mickylyons


My point is Lew it must have been agreed to get players in and meet higher wage demands if required . Both these players will command higher wages than I bet we have paid out pro rata for years?


Maybe I see things differently but we released 6(?) players , which frees up 6 wages. We have signed 2 players so far , which means we are in " credit " with the playing budget. If we sign 2 more quality players then the overall impact on the playing budget should balance out. I know we have a wage ceiling but surely this will rise each year?


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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from rancido


Maybe I see things differently but we released 6(?) players , which frees up 6 wages. We have signed 2 players so far , which means we are in " credit " with the playing budget. If we sign 2 more quality players then the overall impact on the playing budget should balance out. I know we have a wage ceiling but surely this will rise each year?


Surely it will only rise if the income rises. Not looking likely at the moment.


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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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wiggers
June 18, 2019, 6:52pm Report to Moderator
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Two good solid signings so far, would think that would be it for strikers now. Need 3 defenders 1 central midfielder and a couple of wide men and we should be set. If they are of the calibre of the two we have got so far then I’ll see it as an improvement on the previous season. I think that’s all we can do, slowly improve year on year. I think handing out two year contracts helps in this regard.
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lew chaterleys lover
June 18, 2019, 9:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


My point is Lew it must have been agreed to get players in and meet higher wage demands if required . Both these players will command higher wages than I bet we have paid out pro rata for years?


As much as I would like to agree with you I think it is unlikely that the budget is any different to previous years.

One thing Jolley will have learned is that he has to juggle our limited budget to the absolute max - so no more Welsh type signings.

I suppose if season tickets sales continue to bomb then Fenty might have a shortfall to make up but that is not the same as any positive intention to go for it.

Here's hoping Jolley does the business.

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jamesgtfc
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Quoted from rancido


Maybe I see things differently but we released 6(?) players , which frees up 6 wages. We have signed 2 players so far , which means we are in " credit " with the playing budget. If we sign 2 more quality players then the overall impact on the playing budget should balance out. I know we have a wage ceiling but surely this will rise each year?


Hooper (High earner given he came from League 1)
Welsh (High earner and marquee signing)
Thomas (High earner)
Whitmore (Moderate earner)
RHJ (Low to moderate earner)
Collins (Moderate to high earner)

Purely speculating on the wages but most of the players released will have been decent earners. Fenty openly said that he didn't back MJ enough last season which suggests a budget increase this season. Strikers generally cost more and we have doubled the experience up there. If we can get another 2 or 3 players in before pre-season starts I think we will be in a very good position.
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Bigdog
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Are we going for it?

Not really whipping myself up into a frenzy quite yet. We've signed two forwards who have the profiles of typical signings for a mid-table League Two side. Both have got the capability to be a success, but both also could disappoint going on recent history and both could easily be on the downgrade. One not good enough for a side that are promotion favourites, the other nowhere near the quality of the forwards signed for his home town club who are also promotion favourites. And then there's the question of who is going to supply the chances for them. We're nowhere near having that conundrum sorted either. Finding myself keeping my hopes in check and would prefer to be pleasantly surprised rather than brought back down to earth by getting giddy over two signings that teams at the top of League Two wouldn't be inteested in. Age a bit of an issue for me as both are in their thirties, and would have liked us to invest in a forward from the lower leagues or an academy higher up the ladder alongside one or the other.

Long way to go yet.. and I'm really not falling for the "going for it" marketing ploy from GTFC until I see the rest of the signings.. and there should be another half a dozen to come in. And as for Whitehouse being intended to be our star player last year.. he spent most of the time on the bench for a play-off team the season before and then has had a significant injury. I think we need to calm down our expectations about him next season, the lad will need time and not any weight of expectation on his shoulders for him to hopefully come good..

Haven't seen anything to get giddy about... yet..
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1mickylyons
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Quoted from Bigdog
Are we going for it?

Not really whipping myself up into a frenzy quite yet. We've signed two forwards who have the profiles of typical signings for a mid-table League Two side. Both have got the capability to be a success, but both also could disappoint going on recent history and both could easily be on the downgrade. One not good enough for a side that are promotion favourites, the other nowhere near the quality of the forwards signed for his home town club who are also promotion favourites. And then there's the question of who is going to supply the chances for them. We're nowhere near having that conundrum sorted either. Finding myself keeping my hopes in check and would prefer to be pleasantly surprised rather than brought back down to earth by getting giddy over two signings that teams at the top of League Two wouldn't be inteested in. Age a bit of an issue for me as both are in their thirties, and would have liked us to invest in a forward from the lower leagues or an academy higher up the ladder alongside one or the other.

Long way to go yet.. and I'm really not falling for the "going for it" marketing ploy from GTFC until I see the rest of the signings.. and there should be another half a dozen to come in. And as for Whitehouse being intended to be our star player last year.. he spent most of the time on the bench for a play-off team the season before and then has had a significant injury. I think we need to calm down our expectations about him next season, the lad will need time and not any weight of expectation on his shoulders for him to hopefully come good..

Haven't seen anything to get giddy about... yet..


You seem to forget we already have Vernam and whilst not a goalscorer for me he sits close to a top of the tree for a  league 2 player . You are right to exercise caution and we are a long way off but these 2 signings in my eyes are at least a good starting point and I expect more goals scored.

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diehardmariner
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Whilst I'm pleased with the two pieces of business we've done, I don't really see them as a statement of our intent to go for it.  If anything I think it's about addressing the fact that we A) lacked both a physical presence up top and potent finishers and B) we've got a really young squad.  

Last season our experience in the side was made up McKeown, Collins, Welsh, Woolford and Thomas.  To a lesser extent you could add Davies, Hendrie and Hessenthaler to the mix.  This summer we're without Collins, Welsh, Woolford and Thomas, by far the 4 players with the most Football League games under their belt.  With a glut of younger lads coming through over the last 12 months it's important we add experience.

I'm far from convinced that the budget will be increased, despite Fenty saying it wasn't good enough last year.  In fact the  lack of season ticket sales makes me think it could be reduced!  It wouldn't surprise me if Jolley's plan is to spend the majority of his budget on a quality core of 14-16 senior players and then supplement it with the young professionals like Curran, Pollock et al.   This may be something out of necessity but if it's the plan, I quite like it and would much prefer to see this than a bloated squad of 20 odd average players, some of whom will get very little game time.

McKeown, Russell*, Hendrie, Ring, Ohman, Davies, Clifton, Hessenthaler, Whitehouse, Vernam, Cook, Green, Hanson, Cardwell
Battersby, Pollock, Curran, Buckley, Wright, Rose,

I make that 14 senior pros (including Russell as player/coach) and 6 young lads.  Definitely lacking a centre back and possibly a winger as a minimum.  Six strikers on the books too, wouldn't be surprised to see one move on.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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I would say we lack in midfield more than anywhere now. Clifton and Hessenthaler does not look a strong enough pairing to me and we probably need a long wait to see if Whitehouse can do a comeback. Another injury to another midfielder and we are really stretched there. If we don’t reinforce then we know what will happen, teams will just run at us straight through the middle.

Defenders will be reduced to whacking it long for Green or Hanson to chase until they are knackered and Rose or Cardwell or whatever gets a go. Unless maybe the plan is to use Cook in midfield this season?

Vernam would be best with his pace as an out and out winger if he would do more touchline hugging instead of coming inside so often. He does not have the stamina to play in the middle but like Wright he could be a match winner out wide.


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Bigdog
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Quoted from diehardmariner
Whilst I'm pleased with the two pieces of business we've done, I don't really see them as a statement of our intent to go for it.  If anything I think it's about addressing the fact that we A) lacked both a physical presence up top and potent finishers and B) we've got a really young squad.  

Last season our experience in the side was made up McKeown, Collins, Welsh, Woolford and Thomas.  To a lesser extent you could add Davies, Hendrie and Hessenthaler to the mix.  This summer we're without Collins, Welsh, Woolford and Thomas, by far the 4 players with the most Football League games under their belt.  With a glut of younger lads coming through over the last 12 months it's important we add experience.

I'm far from convinced that the budget will be increased, despite Fenty saying it wasn't good enough last year.  In fact the  lack of season ticket sales makes me think it could be reduced!  It wouldn't surprise me if Jolley's plan is to spend the majority of his budget on a quality core of 14-16 senior players and then supplement it with the young professionals like Curran, Pollock et al.   This may be something out of necessity but if it's the plan, I quite like it and would much prefer to see this than a bloated squad of 20 odd average players, some of whom will get very little game time.

McKeown, Russell*, Hendrie, Ring, Ohman, Davies, Clifton, Hessenthaler, Whitehouse, Vernam, Cook, Green, Hanson, Cardwell
Battersby, Pollock, Curran, Buckley, Wright, Rose,

I make that 14 senior pros (including Russell as player/coach) and 6 young lads.  Definitely lacking a centre back and possibly a winger as a minimum.  Six strikers on the books too, wouldn't be surprised to see one move on
.


Right back, left back, two centre halves, two wide men and two central midfielders needed to make up the minimum senior squad of two per position backed up by the young pros. Fans name starting elevens without thinking about injuries, international call ups or loss of form. Shopping list gets shorter if Wright, Pollock or someone else steps up during the summer.. Long way to go before we have a balanced squad assembled before we can even assess where we are against our competitors..

Find it strange that MJ extends Cardwell's contract then signs two more forwards with similar profiles which should immediately relegate him to third choice target man.. unless he has plans to play him out wide as he did (without much effect) last season, or as you say, loans him or Ahkeem out..
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diehardmariner
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Be very surprised if we have two to a position at all this season, especially senior players.  At best and based on nothing other than opinion, we'll have a few utility players coming in but once we're past a core 16 it's down to the kids.  

Cardwell one is odd.  With the two incoming strikers you have to presume he's fallen even further down the pecking order now.  Not convinced he's got what's needed to play out wide, far from his game.  

Makes the decision to give him another year seem even more bizarre.  Can only guess that Jolley thought he would develop a bit more over the last few months and really kick on for next season.
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Son of Cod
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I would say we lack in midfield more than anywhere now. Clifton and Hessenthaler does not look a strong enough pairing to me and we probably need a long wait to see if Whitehouse can do a comeback. Another injury to another midfielder and we are really stretched there. If we don’t reinforce then we know what will happen, teams will just run at us straight through the middle.

Defenders will be reduced to whacking it long for Green or Hanson to chase until they are knackered and Rose or Cardwell or whatever gets a go. Unless maybe the plan is to use Cook in midfield this season?

Vernam would be best with his pace as an out and out winger if he would do more touchline hugging instead of coming inside so often. He does not have the stamina to play in the middle but like Wright he could be a match winner out wide.

Clifton and Hess lack creativity but to say they aren't a strong pairing is madness, in my opinion. I'd say that with Whitehouse coming back CM is the strongest area of our squad. Each to their own though.

We're  in dire need of attacking width and creativity.
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As a more than interested part timer from far away I have to say I have been genuinely excited by the amount of young talent coming through, and being given the chance to do so. It would be wonderful to get back to the mid 1970s / early 1980s and have the endless production line of excellent local talent going full tilt again.


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It's alright having half decent strikers do we have a midfield that is creative and dominant enough to be considered going for it.


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Quoted from diehardmariner
Be very surprised if we have two to a position at all this season, especially senior players.  At best and based on nothing other than opinion, we'll have a few utility players coming in but once we're past a core 16 it's down to the kids.  

Cardwell one is odd.  With the two incoming strikers you have to presume he's fallen even further down the pecking order now.  Not convinced he's got what's needed to play out wide, far from his game.  

Makes the decision to give him another year seem even more bizarre.  Can only guess that Jolley thought he would develop a bit more over the last few months and really kick on for next season.


I get the feeling maybe Jolley himself, didn't think he would get the backing for the 2 strikers we've managed to sign
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Quoted from Son of Cod

Clifton and Hess lack creativity but to say they aren't a strong pairing is madness, in my opinion. I'd say that with Whitehouse coming back CM is the strongest area of our squad. Each to their own though.

We're  in dire need of attacking width and creativity.


You would have to explain that, they lack creativity but they are a strong pairing?



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Maringer
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How many teams have we seen with a creative midfield in the past few seasons? Not many. It's generally the pacy or skilful wide players or strong strikers who have caused the problems.

With the best will in the world, we were never going to dominate midfield when Woolford, Welsh or Rose were in the middle, regardless of who was playing alongside them.

I think a couple of players (or a few, depending on the formation) who can get around the pitch well, tackle, challenge and also pass the ball a bit are good enough for this division. If we're going to be playing with a midfield 3 again this season, hopefully Whitehouse will be the difference playing alongside those two. I think Clifton struggled at times last season in comparison to the end of the previous one but we were told he was playing with an injury so hopefully he'll be improved this time around.
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chaos33
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Quoted from Son of Cod

Clifton and Hess lack creativity but to say they aren't a strong pairing is madness, in my opinion. I'd say that with Whitehouse coming back CM is the strongest area of our squad. Each to their own though.

We're  in dire need of attacking width and creativity.


I’d say they are hard working and tidy with good energy but what can they offer us offensively in terms of assists and goals? Very little combined last season and we need to do better in this area in my view. I like them both and think they are important but we need at least one more quality player with an end product in centre mid.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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The_Laughing_Mariner
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Cockerill snd cunnington didn't offer much going forward, but they were a strong pairing


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marinerdazza
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Cockerill snd cunnington didn't offer much going forward, but they were a strong pairing


They had Gilbert...
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WOZOFGRIMSBY
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Not only is it the quality of the signings, but also how early some business has been done to get the correct people in.

Not only can the players get to grips with formation/tactics, but it's surely peace of mind for them and their families


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Son of Cod
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You would have to explain that, they lack creativity but they are a strong pairing?


What is hard to grasp? Creativity is just one aspect of a midfield. Both of these posts sum it up well...

Quoted from Maringer
How many teams have we seen with a creative midfield in the past few seasons? Not many. It's generally the pacy or skilful wide players or strong strikers who have caused the problems.

With the best will in the world, we were never going to dominate midfield when Woolford, Welsh or Rose were in the middle, regardless of who was playing alongside them.

I think a couple of players (or a few, depending on the formation) who can get around the pitch well, tackle, challenge and also pass the ball a bit are good enough for this division. If we're going to be playing with a midfield 3 again this season, hopefully Whitehouse will be the difference playing alongside those two. I think Clifton struggled at times last season in comparison to the end of the previous one but we were told he was playing with an injury so hopefully he'll be improved this time around.


Quoted from chaos33


I’d say they are hard working and tidy with good energy but what can they offer us offensively in terms of assists and goals? Very little combined last season and we need to do better in this area in my view. I like them both and think they are important but we need at least one more quality player with an end product in centre mid.


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The_Laughing_Mariner
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Exactly, and Childs.  This is the point some posters are making.
That cm partnership, with Whitehouse could work with creative wide players.
Oh for a Joe Waters, Jack of all trades and master of them all


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chiangmaimariner
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There is this possibility:

MJ has seen the value of having an experienced forward in this league (Thomas), but experience
and youth don't happen together.

He wants to play 2 strikers and develop younger players (as he's said).
He wants (at least) one of the strikers to be "experienced".  And maybe play a youngster alongside.
So he'd need 2 experienced strikers to cover age/injury/suspension issues.

He may start with both Hanson and Green whenever they're both fit - but he doesn't have to.


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chaos33
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Cockerill snd cunnington didn't offer much going forward, but they were a strong pairing


Are you off your head?!?! They both weighed in with loads of goals and a share of assists.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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Cockerill snd cunnington didn't offer much going forward, but they were a strong pairing


Really?



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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gytone
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Cockerill and Cunnington were fantastic going forward and defending, pity we can't get 2 like that now, then again i suspect they wouldn't be on the pitch very long these days......sadly .
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toontown
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Cockers scored more as i remember, whereas Cunninghton's poor shooting (almost always shot over) was probably his only weakness, although he still weighed in with the odd few. In both their cases their strong running from midfield created chances and goals.

As far as Clifton and Hessenthaler are concerned i would say Harry is more like the above two (although obviously not at their level) in that his positivity and attacking drive from the midfield on occasions creates chances and/or scores goals. Hessanthaler doesnt really offer much attacking creativity, but is the 'tidier' deeper player.

If we are to have these as a midfield 2 then we need proper wingers for creativity, especially after signing green and hansen, who are going to thrive on crosses i would have thought.
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londonmariner2
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Harry Clifton to Doncaster 250k?
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Quoted from londonmariner2
Harry Clifton to Doncaster 250k?


Unlikely amount surely? Not even sure Donny would go for him, much as we lov him.


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1mickylyons
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Cockerill snd cunnington didn't offer much going forward, but they were a strong pairing


They both scored around half a dozen goals a Season
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forza ivano
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Quoted from 1mickylyons
The 2 signings so far suggest to me seem to signal a statement of intent if nothing else then in terms of wage structure being altered I can`t see either being cheap in League 2 terms ? Really hoping these are the first of half a dozen or so quality signings and I just wonder who is agreeing to bankroll it?


i think the next couple of signings may well be the test of what is or isn't happening. If who i'm hearing is correct then there may be something to what you're hinting at!
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1mickylyons
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Quoted from forza ivano


i think the next couple of signings may well be the test of what is or isn't happening. If who i'm hearing is correct then there may be something to what you're hinting at!


Yes it`s true the jungle drums are beating a loud positive beat so much so I expect to once again be a season ticket holder come August but for now I will wait and see what occurs?UTM
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nealeardleyscrossing
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


Yes it`s true the jungle drums are beating a loud positive beat so much so I expect to once again be a season ticket holder come August but for now I will wait and see what occurs?UTM


I know a lot of your fans liked to critique our style of play - Jolley is clearly going with a target man, so will get the ball forward quick - Your fan base be happy with that? You will effectively play like we did 1st season back in the league. Even though we had Akinde last season, he is far more mobile than Rhead was for us, and I imagine Hanson.

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Northbank Mariner
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I know a lot of your fans liked to critique our style of play - Jolley is clearly going with a target man, so will get the ball forward quick - Your fan base be happy with that? You will effectively play like we did 1st season back in the league. Even though we had Akinde last season, he is far more mobile than Rhead was for us, and I imagine Hanson.


I think you're wrong with that analogy, if you see the way Hanson plays he likes balls whipped across the edge of the 6 yard box, so I expect us to play the ball through midfield and out to 2 wide men who can deliver decent crosses.
As for Green he links play and holds up the ball up well, all I'm hoping is Jolley drops the obsession with the 3-5-2 and goes more 4-4-2 or 4-3-3...
And you are right we did critique your style of football but, for as much as it pains me to say so, it worked incredibly well for you...

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Maringer
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I know a lot of your fans liked to critique our style of play - Jolley is clearly going with a target man, so will get the ball forward quick - Your fan base be happy with that? You will effectively play like we did 1st season back in the league. Even though we had Akinde last season, he is far more mobile than Rhead was for us, and I imagine Hanson.



It was the diving, cheating and outright gamesmanship which we particularly didn't like. Rhead and Akinde both culpable in this regard though Akinde (pen) obviously has other strings to his bow as well.

Thankfully, Jolley doesn't advocate this sort of thing, unlike the Cowleys who it seems insist on it.
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RichMariner
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I understand the demand for a bit of creativity in the middle (thinking Burnett a few years back and maybe someone like Nolan more recently) but they are luxuries.

Tbh, I wouldn't have put Groves down as creative but he got plenty of goals from centre mid purely through his ability to get up and down the pitch and ghost into the box at the perfect moment.

This is an instinct or a skill that maybe the likes of Clifton, Hess and Whitehouse don't have, but that's not to say it's something Jolley can't coach.

If we have creativity wide then there's less emphasis on it coming from the middle too. Get a couple of strikers in the box with a centre mid arriving late and the wide players have plenty to aim for.

Obviously football is a bit more complex than that, and it clearly doesn't hurt to have another Embleton in there, but it's not the be-all and end-all if we can get genuine creative players wide, or maybe even dropping just behind the front two, which is where I see Jordan Cook's natural position.


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Malta_Mariner_90
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I know a lot of your fans liked to critique our style of play - Jolley is clearly going with a target man, so will get the ball forward quick - Your fan base be happy with that? You will effectively play like we did 1st season back in the league. Even though we had Akinde last season, he is far more mobile than Rhead was for us, and I imagine Hanson.



It is hardly like we played like Barcelona for most of last season. There were some games were we played decent football, and we largely do try and keep it on the deck as tradition dictates. However there were plenty of games were we ended up lumping the ball forward to Thomas. Hence why we need someone like Hanson.

In my opinion not a case of going the Lincoln way (even though your style is probably not quite as hit and hope as some like to think), it is more a case of being able to have more than one way of attacking.

Last season Jolley messed up by putting his eggs in the 3-5-2 basket at the start of the season so we had no wingers/big target man.

The 3-5-2 basket was unfortunately not able to hold Jolley's eggs and so they landed on his face and we ended up playing mainly 4-5-1 until January with various players playing out wide to varying effect.

This season he seems to have noted that hence we might be mixing it up with Hanson. Time will tell though as we only have one winger at the moment.
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Davec
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Quoted from forza ivano


i think the next couple of signings may well be the test of what is or isn't happening. If who i'm hearing is correct then there may be something to what you're hinting at!


Any names?
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Bigdog
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Quoted from Maringer


It was the diving, cheating and outright gamesmanship which we particularly didn't like. Rhead and Akinde both culpable in this regard though Akinde (pen) obviously has other strings to his bow as well.

Thankfully, Jolley doesn't advocate this sort of thing, unlike the Cowleys who it seems insist on it.


No one here minded Jack Lester being Jack Lester..

I wouldn't think there's a single manager out of the 92 who wouldn't praise a player for cleverly buying a free kick. At times last season we looked a little naive and wouldn't mind us being a little more streetwise in the future if it got us a handful of extra points..

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jamesgtfc
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I certainly don't think creativity in the middle is massively important at this level. A midfield high in energy can be much more effective providing they get into the box!

4-3-3 with Green and Vernam wide could work if the middle 3 bomb forward. Hendrie is a good option getting forward and can deliver a good cross.
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nealeardleyscrossing
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I think you're wrong with that analogy, if you see the way Hanson plays he likes balls whipped across the edge of the 6 yard box, so I expect us to play the ball through midfield and out to 2 wide men who can deliver decent crosses.
As for Green he links play and holds up the ball up well, all I'm hoping is Jolley drops the obsession with the 3-5-2 and goes more 4-4-2 or 4-3-3...
And you are right we did critique your style of football but, for as much as it pains me to say so, it worked incredibly well for you...



Green does not hold the ball up well, its not his game at all. Green plays of the shoulder of a target man, and runs the channels all day.
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1mickylyons
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I know a lot of your fans liked to critique our style of play - Jolley is clearly going with a target man, so will get the ball forward quick - Your fan base be happy with that? You will effectively play like we did 1st season back in the league. Even though we had Akinde last season, he is far more mobile than Rhead was for us, and I imagine Hanson.



Me personally not a fan of the long ball game in terms of viewing but I can`t deny it`s effectiveness at times . Lincoln vs Grimsby considering how many points in front you finished of us I wouldn`t say you dominated us particularly in the two games despite you having a massive height advantage ? It`s all about quality delivery into the box and once you estabilish (ie Lincoln) the fear factor from set pieces opposition teams panic and do daft things. Rhead whilst much maligned by many does what it says on the tin if he gets the ball into him in the box he scores lays on a chance or gets a foul . We need several more players in to make me think we are going to go direct ala Lincoln I would hope we just mix it up a bit and clearly we need to score 20-30 more goals if we are to challenge the top 7 at all.
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nealeardleyscrossing
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


Me personally not a fan of the long ball game in terms of viewing but I can`t deny it`s effectiveness at times . Lincoln vs Grimsby considering how many points in front you finished of us I wouldn`t say you dominated us particularly in the two games despite you having a massive height advantage ? It`s all about quality delivery into the box and once you estabilish (ie Lincoln) the fear factor from set pieces opposition teams panic and do daft things. Rhead whilst much maligned by many does what it says on the tin if he gets the ball into him in the box he scores lays on a chance or gets a foul . We need several more players in to make me think we are going to go direct ala Lincoln I would hope we just mix it up a bit and clearly we need to score 20-30 more goals if we are to challenge the top 7 at all.


Not sure where you get the height thing from? Pett, Toffolo, Freck, Eardley, Andrade, Anderson, McCartan, O'connor all relatively small. Thats 8 of our side, Shackell, Bostwick and Akinde had height and Power,

We were actually not a big side at all.

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Nutsy
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4212

Hess and Clifton  dropping behind Vernam or Cook. Then Green and Hanson up top
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grimsby pete
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All the talk of creative midfield long ball short ball ect ect,

If we are winning most weeks who cares how we play ?.

Goals and points are all that counts,

Having said that I think we will mix it up a bit,

With speedy runs down the wings and the long ball to Hanson.


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lew chaterleys lover
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Quoted from grimsby pete
All the talk of creative midfield long ball short ball ect ect,

If we are winning most weeks who cares how we play ?.

Goals and points are all that counts,

Having said that I think we will mix it up a bit,

With speedy runs down the wings and the long ball to Hanson.


Totally agree Pete. The aim of the game is to win. A good manager will get the best out of the players he has got, with maybe aiming longer term for a style of play that is easy on the eye, but the only thing that matters is goals and winning games.
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Mariner Timsky
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We won 16 games last season - we need to be aiming for 20 + wins for any chance of Top 7 and an exciting season will be in store


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Mariner Timsky
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We won 16 games last season - we need to be aiming for 20 + wins for any chance of Top 7 and an exciting season will be in store


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jimgtfc
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Quoted from Nutsy
4212

Hess and Clifton  dropping behind Vernam or Cook. Then Green and Hanson up top


Not sure your tactic of starting with 10 men is the right way to go personally.


"Falls to Arnold... Arnold! That's it! Thats it! He's sealed it! Grimsby Town are back in the football league!!! Just a minute to go and Nathan Arnold makes it 3-1! Look at the scenes behind the goal! Look at the relief! The agony is finally over!!!"

John Tondeur - Wembley Stadium Sunday 15th May 2016
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Civvy at last
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Quoted from jimgtfc


Not sure your tactic of starting with 10 men is the right way to go personally.


Perhaps he’s taking our sending off record into account !!


Apparently my wife is loving me because I don’t really pay attention to what she is actually saying !!



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Maringer
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Quoted from Bigdog


No one here minded Jack Lester being Jack Lester..



Speak for yourself. I was always a little uncomfortable with the way he went to ground at times, especially as he was good enough a player on his day to do more damage when staying on his feet.

I don't really agree with the view that there is nothing wrong with 'buying' a foul as it is just cheating for me. Akinde in particular is an expert at this sort of thing - big and strong when he needs to be but (apparently) pathetically weak at other times. Unfortunately, referees seem to take the modern view espoused by pundits that getting yourself into a position where you can then needlessly fall over is deserving of a free-kick/penalty. If they were going to be fair, they would penalise the same players when they back into defenders. You shouldn't be allowed to get away with being both 'strong' and 'weak' depending on what benefits you in a particular instant.
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diehardmariner
June 21, 2019, 9:48am Report to Moderator
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Not sure where you get the height thing from? Pett, Toffolo, Freck, Eardley, Andrade, Anderson, McCartan, O'connor all relatively small. Thats 8 of our side, Shackell, Bostwick and Akinde had height and Power,

We were actually not a big side at all.



Perhaps by height advantage he meant the height that elbows were thrown at our centre-back?
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1mickylyons
June 21, 2019, 9:59am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from diehardmariner


Perhaps by height advantage he meant the height that elbows were thrown at our centre-back?


One of the few highlights of non league was thrashing the Imps at SB when we beat them 1-4 and nearly every goal they were out muscled.
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RichMariner
June 21, 2019, 1:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


One of the few highlights of non league was thrashing the Imps at SB when we beat them 1-4 and nearly every goal they were out muscled.


I could be wrong here (haven't bothered to check) but didn't Josh Gowling play for the Imps in that thrashing?!


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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MarinerDevil
June 21, 2019, 2:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from RichMariner


I could be wrong here (haven't bothered to check) but didn't Josh Gowling play for the Imps in that thrashing?!


Not sure, but Boyce certainly did.
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Les Brechin
June 21, 2019, 2:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RichMariner


I could be wrong here (haven't bothered to check) but didn't Josh Gowling play for the Imps in that thrashing?!


No, he didn't, but as mentioned Andrew Boyce did and scored an own goal and Scott Garner came on as a sub in the 2nd half.

https://www.skysports.com/football/lincoln-vs-grimsby/teams/265762



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