Nations League in Portugal

Think it was Cundy on talksport got it spot on; Stones waltzes about like he's Beckenbauer but he's just not.

24 now and has always been a liability in that regard. Still not eradicated the ridiculous errors he so prone to. Come back Gomez!

Cannot believe the calls for us to stop 'faffing about at the back'.  It's this idea that we have to hit it long every time that has seen England struggle for so long.

Last night wasn't great but our downfall wasn't because we didn't go long, it was because of individual errors.  Stones would have dallied about on the ball regardless if we had played it short or long.  

There's a lot about the lack of options from the midfield last night and whilst I agree, because the middle three offered little in way of options.  Those mistakes didn't come from that.  The Dutch second goal was because Stones lost concentration and tried something stupid.  The first goal came because Stones lost his man at a corner, unforgivable for a centre-back and the warning signs were made in the 70 odd minutes before hand.  The third goal came because Barkley tried a blind pass in front of his own goal, arguably it was under pressure as we were chasing the game but it was just reckless.

Stones as a player hasn't progressed I'm afraid.  He can probably get away with playing in a back 3 but his defensive game is too weak and in all honesty, he's not that good at bringing it out either.   Definitely not good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings.

The eleven that Southgate put out last night was, in my eyes, a bit of a bridge between where we were and where we want to be.  The likes of Stones, Barkley and Walker are good players. Players who 3 years ago we would looked to have built our future sides around.  But now we've moved on, we've a new and better generation emerging and we should be looking at these players as our back-ups at best.  Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Foden/Winks should all be pressing into the first team when fit and available.

The midfield was badly imbalanced last night.  Rice, Delph and Barkley is a terrible combination, especially when Barkley was coming so deep to try and influence play.  Could maybe have got away with it had Barkley stayed further forward but we effectively played with 3 deep midfielders.

Lot for Southgate to take from this game and a hell of a lot to work on, but the last thing we need to do is revert to old and just launch it long in the hope it'll fall kindly.

But for the success of English club football this season, last night's England team would have been a lot different and a lot stronger.

Quoted from Les Brechin

But for the success of English club football this season, last night's England team would have been a lot different and a lot stronger.

Really Les based on what and who? The 4 sides that competed in the 2 Finals had very few English players between them and the star man Kane clearly way off in terms of fitness due to his injury and IMO should have been let go on holiday.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Cannot believe the calls for us to stop 'faffing about at the back'.  It's this idea that we have to hit it long every time that has seen England struggle for so long.

Last night wasn't great but our downfall wasn't because we didn't go long, it was because of individual errors.  Stones would have dallied about on the ball regardless if we had played it short or long.  

There's a lot about the lack of options from the midfield last night and whilst I agree, because the middle three offered little in way of options.  Those mistakes didn't come from that.  The Dutch second goal was because Stones lost concentration and tried something stupid.  The first goal came because Stones lost his man at a corner, unforgivable for a centre-back and the warning signs were made in the 70 odd minutes before hand.  The third goal came because Barkley tried a blind pass in front of his own goal, arguably it was under pressure as we were chasing the game but it was just reckless.

Stones as a player hasn't progressed I'm afraid.  He can probably get away with playing in a back 3 but his defensive game is too weak and in all honesty, he's not that good at bringing it out either.   Definitely not good enough to make up for his defensive shortcomings.

The eleven that Southgate put out last night was, in my eyes, a bit of a bridge between where we were and where we want to be.  The likes of Stones, Barkley and Walker are good players. Players who 3 years ago we would looked to have built our future sides around.  But now we've moved on, we've a new and better generation emerging and we should be looking at these players as our back-ups at best.  Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Foden/Winks should all be pressing into the first team when fit and available.

The midfield was badly imbalanced last night.  Rice, Delph and Barkley is a terrible combination, especially when Barkley was coming so deep to try and influence play.  Could maybe have got away with it had Barkley stayed further forward but we effectively played with 3 deep midfielders.

Lot for Southgate to take from this game and a hell of a lot to work on, but the last thing we need to do is revert to old and just launch it long in the hope it'll fall kindly.

There is a lot for the manager to take from the game? How to win from a winning position would be a good start. How to create good decision making would be a must. Even Brazil do not play every ball from the back as though they are in the final third. They rarely get anywhere near being caught in possession and if they are they are not afraid to launch to ball upfield or into Row W. If you are likely to let a player in on goal by playing from the back then which is the lesser evil? Barkley and Stones found out didn't they? I for one would rather have seen the ball in the stand than the back of our net.  Like the Germans, they are schooled to play but they are schooled to WIN. The England side is schooled to make excuses for not winning.

This was a Mickey Mouse competition semi but it was at least a competition and once again we showed ourselves lacking the edge and the nous to see out a game from a winning position. Why? Poor selection, poor tactics and poor attitude. All the things people moaned about with previous coaches.

One interesting thing was said about Koeman before the game by a Dutch journalist. He is the first coach since the old guard retired so he has a young side and is still finding his way. Our manager has had ages and ages in the set up, knows the players but appears to be losing his way very quickly.

Alexander-Arnold, Alli and Henderson are all key parts of that England set-up.

In the case of Alli and Henderson that's two-thirds of your midfield, an area where we struggled last night.  I'm not a massive Henderson fan and I think Alli has flattered to deceive in the last two years, especially at international level, but they both would have brought a better balance.

Agreed on Kane.  He looked poor and has looked jaded for a good year or so now.  He's gone through this constant cycle of getting injured, rushing back, never quite reaching peak fitness and then repeating.  His body needs a rest.

Stones has been an integral part of the improved style in play and would benefit from Gomez alongside him. Deserves the crticism for his decision making last night but all the players looked jaded too to be honest. Some "one game in June after a long season" sweeping statements about players who have played well over the past two years. A reality check for some regarding the limits of their abilities and decision making,  but I'm not getting too worked up about a single game in June after a long competitive English season when players looked mentally tired. Rice, Delph and Barkley is definitely not a world level midfield three though..

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

There is a lot for the manager to take from the game? How to win from a winning position would be a good start. How to create good decision making would be a must. Even Brazil do not play every ball from the back as though they are in the final third. They rarely get anywhere near being caught in possession and if they are they are not afraid to launch to ball upfield or into Row W. Like the Germans they are schooled to play but they are schooled to WIN. The England side is schooled to make excuses for not winning.

This was a Mickey Mouse competition semi but it was at least a competition and once again we showed ourselves lacking the edge and the nous to see out a game from a winning position. Why? Poor selection, poor tactics and poor attitude. All the things people moaned about with previous coaches.

One interesting thing was said about Koeman before the game by a Dutch journalist. He is the first coach since the old guard retired so he has a young side and is still finding his way. Our manager has had ages and ages in the set up, knows the players but appears to be losing his way very quickly.

I think that's quite unfair.  Especially the bit about being schooled to make excuses for not winning.  The young English players are winners. They've won on the international stage at all levels up to the national side.  

I can't ever recall seeing a Brazil side hitting it into the stands or even launching it up field, the reason is because they always have an option available to them.  Last night our midfield three offered so little it was painful, that said it was still needless mistakes that resulted in goals.  

It's a very, very young side.  You had Kyle Walker as your most experienced player, someone who is probably an understudy now.  Then it's Delph, again an understudy.  You're looking at Sterling as your only relatively experienced starter.  They will get better, they will get more composed and they will win things.  But it takes time, you can't just flick a switch.  We've improved so much in the last two years it's unreal.  But you only really learn from your mistakes.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Really Les based on what and who? The 4 sides that competed in the 2 Finals had very few English players between them and the star man Kane clearly way off in terms of fitness due to his injury and IMO should have been let go on holiday.

Admittedly Kane and Alli were off the pace last night when they came on, but don't you think the England side would have been stronger if Henderson, Alexander-Arnold, Rose and maybe even Gomez would have started.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think that's quite unfair.  Especially the bit about being schooled to make excuses for not winning.  The young English players are winners. They've won on the international stage at all levels up to the national side.  

I can't ever recall seeing a Brazil side hitting it into the stands or even launching it up field, the reason is because they always have an option available to them.  Last night our midfield three offered so little it was painful, that said it was still needless mistakes that resulted in goals.  

It's a very, very young side.  You had Kyle Walker as your most experienced player, someone who is probably an understudy now.  Then it's Delph, again an understudy.  You're looking at Sterling as your only relatively experienced starter.  They will get better, they will get more composed and they will win things.  But it takes time, you can't just flick a switch.  We've improved so much in the last two years it's unreal.  But you only really learn from your mistakes.

I admire your optimism!

If teams only really learn from their mistakes then England are incredibly slow learners and will be a very, very long time studying.

In fairness to the players, some are lacking in regular top class club football but the biggest culprits for poor decisions and anonymity last night were the most experienced!

Brazil and other top sides do launch it from the back if they need to. The difference is that their accuracy is better and the target player better at receiving the ball. The issue of someone being available for the pass is another fallacy. Look at the top sides and the ball is most often played into midfield to a marked man who is expected to either pass first time, beat his marker or draw the foul.  Nevertheless are we saying that in a semi final where we we need to win we would like to see a defender always try to play a short ball, even if it puts his mate into trouble, rather than send it down the other end? No thanks. Row W may be ugly but if we win I’ll take it.