Where Do You Want Us To Be ?

Once we have a new stadium and a new owner where do you want us to be ?

I can not see us paying our way with  12,000 max crowds  being a championship club well not for more than a season or two,

I will be happy with us being mid to top half L1 one club and the odd good cup run , I would rather have that than put ourselves in debt to whoever and overstretching  ending up in the position we are in now,

Some will say well Bournemouth have managed to be a prem team and are holding their own but that would be a miracle if we could do it unless Michael Jolley can prove me wrong.

So what are your expectations ? Like I said winning more games than losing would be good and halfway up L1 is our level imo.

Plus having  good facilities  to enjoy a match day along side entertaining football good food and drink is what life is all about.

Best case, mid League 1 regularly, odd dalliance with play off, and a couple of relegations in and out of League 2

Of course, stability in League 2 is not yet a done deal, important summer for reinforcements  

I'm not massively bothered what division we are in, or about a new ground, I was just want to see good football, youngsters coming through and a team that puts in a shift and wins more home games than not.

You talk like we are imminently about to get a new stadium built and a new owner in the next couple of seasons.....

Jolley will be a distant memory by the time that happens I imagine. Many of the people on this forum probably will too  . Realistically at this point I want GTFC to build themselves as an established League 2 team that can consistently finish mid to top half without ever really looking like being relegated. Then maybe 7-8 seasons time becoming a playoff chasing team that can have a chance at going up.

Quoted from Kris2

You talk like we are imminently about to get a new stadium built and a new owner in the next couple of seasons.....
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No Kris I do not expect we will be in a new stadium for at least 5 years if then and I do not expect us to do a Bournemouth either just putting it out there for  something Jolley might want  to do before moving on.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'm not massively bothered what division we are in, or about a new ground, I was just want to see good football, youngsters coming through and a team that puts in a shift and wins more home games than not.

I know what you mean but life isn't like that, at least not in football. Unless you are actively trying to go up a level you will certainly go down a level within a short space of time. We have to keep trying to punch above our weight and not just accept that a poor budget means a mediocre outcome in the league.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Once we have a new stadium and a new owner where do you want us to be ?

I will be happy with us being mid to top half L1 one club and the odd good cup run , I would rather have that than put ourselves in debt to whoever and overstretching  ending up in the position we are in now,

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Nailed it for me. I cant see us ever competing in the championship given the way football has changed  eg all business now unless someone rich comes in and invest in us.Given our geographic location and the size of the town I cant see that happening though.

Quoted from Rick12

Nailed it for me. I cant see us ever competing in the championship given the way football has changed  eg all business now unless someone rich comes in and invest in us.Given our geographic location and the size of the town I cant see that happening though.

We never competed when we were in old Div Two Rick. Sufficient money never came through the turnstiles with gates the size they were. The only way to do it is to be a selling club plus have reasonably wealthy backers. We can do the first part, develop and sell on youngsters but as you say, who would back us?

I think we have the potential to be a bit like Barnsley or Peterborough, hovering between the Championship and League 1.

Quite honestly i dont care....if i felt i was a valued supporter watching my team competing at whatever level we were at with some entertainment and something to genuinely make me cheer and get excited i would be happy.

Would add...for too long now i have hardly felt any affinity to the team, yes i support them, suffer the lows and get off on the highs but apart from Macca and Clifton of the current crop i hardly feel a jot for any of them.....footballers playing 4/5/10 seasons for you is a rarity nowadays but seemed the norm when i started following Town. Players like Wainman, Batch, Stone, Brolly all stayed local after they finished and i had them up on preverbial pedestals.....closest we have come to anyone of that ilk in the last 10 yrs is Disley.

I want that feeling back as well.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

We never competed when we were in old Div Two Rick. Sufficient money never came through the turnstiles with gates the size they were. The only way to do it is to be a selling club plus have reasonably wealthy backers. We can do the first part, develop and sell on youngsters but as you say, who would back us?

I'll always be Grimsby though no matter what league were in.Difficult though sometimes when you realise we were once a old first division side(now premiership).

Quoted from moosey_club

Quite honestly i dont care....if i felt i was a valued supporter watching my team competing at whatever level we were at with some entertainment and something to genuinely make me cheer and get excited i would be happy.

Would add...for too long now i have hardly felt any affinity to the team, yes i support them, suffer the lows and get off on the highs but apart from Macca and Clifton of the current crop i hardly feel a jot for any of them.....footballers playing 4/5/10 seasons for you is a rarity nowadays but seemed the norm when i started following Town. Players like Wainman, Batch, Stone, Brolly all stayed local after they finished and i had them up on preverbial pedestals.....closest we have come to anyone of that ilk in the last 10 yrs is Disley.

I want that feeling back as well.

Spot on.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

We never competed when we were in old Div Two Rick. Sufficient money never came through the turnstiles with gates the size they were. The only way to do it is to be a selling club plus have reasonably wealthy backers. We can do the first part, develop and sell on youngsters but as you say, who would back us?

We did one season I remember going to Ipswich towards the back end of the season and we were 5th or 6th  and remember saying to the son in law we are not used to this we are normally near the bottom at this time of the season.

Quoted from grimsby pete

Once we have a new stadium and a new owner where do you want us to be ?

I can not see us paying our way with  12,000 max crowds  being a championship club well not for more than a season or two,

I will be happy with us being mid to top half L1 one club and the odd good cup run , I would rather have that than put ourselves in debt to whoever and overstretching  ending up in the position we are in now,

Some will say well Bournemouth have managed to be a prem team and are holding their own but that would be a miracle if we could do it unless Michael Jolley can prove me wrong.

So what are your expectations ? Like I said winning more games than losing would be good and halfway up L1 is our level imo.

Plus having  good facilities  to enjoy a match day along side entertaining football good food and drink is what life is all about.

That's pretty much how I see things. To be an established League 1 side and good cup runs would be the ideal scenario in my eyes. By all means strive for promotion to the Championship but if it happens then just enjoy the experience and look upon it as an adventure. Don't lose sight of what the club can and cannot afford based on possible gates and other incomes. The last two sojourns at Championship level have shown that the home element of the gates at BP ( or wherever we are playing ) is not likely to exceed 7,000 , which doesn't make us that competitive financially compared to most of the teams at that level.

I’d like to be competitive in L2 but I doubt we will be for a bit TBH.

The reality is L1 is a distant dream the league above that is impossible for us to reach in our current form.

I just hope we can hang on to our league status long enough for the new stadium to be built, more revenue and all that.

I would class that as success under the present regime.

Quoted from wigworld

I think we have the potential to be a bit like Barnsley or Peterborough, hovering between the Championship and League 1.

Sorry but I don't.. Mid table league one at very best.. Id be happy with top end of league 2 (ie play offs, been a while since we went to Wembley)

Quoted from promotion plaice

I just hope we can hang on to our league status long enough for the new stadium to be built, more revenue and all that.

I would class that as success under the present regime.

Agree completely but I doubt it will happen under the current regime. JSF has caused himself a massive problem as he's been clear that a new stadium will be some form of joint venture with a home builder, developer, hotelier, retailer etc...in the next breath however he's telling us he wants away what would that say to any new venture Partners?

Despoite having a solid hardcore of 3,000ish fans there is a general apathy for GTFC in the surrounding area and this means that if we did have a new ground we'd never fill it week in week out.

As a club our view used to be upwards now however we just look over our shoulder to try and ensure that the wolf of relegation to the abyss does not catch up with us and bite us in the @rse.

   .  

Quoted from grimsby pete

We did one season I remember going to Ipswich towards the back end of the season and we were 5th or 6th  and remember saying to the son in law we are not used to this we are normally near the bottom at this time of the season.

Yes I remember that Pete.

That was the season when the Ramsdens put cash in to the club though. We signed Chris Nichol as player/assistant, we had quality from the lads who had come through, we signed Paul So we had a mid table budget at least for a year or two until the Ramsdens stopped and Lyons came.

I was reading this morning about Steve Clarke at Kilmarnock who has got them into 3rd place this year on a total budget of less than £2m. Last year they were 5th. All done with frees and loans and clever management of contracts and some coaching nous. That is the sort of over-achiement we need to show to attract players to the club.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Yes I remember that Pete.

That was the season when the Ramsdens put cash in to the club though. We signed Chris Nichol as player/assistant, we had quality from the lads who had come through, we signed Paul So we had a mid table budget at least for a year or two until the Ramsdens stopped and Lyons came.

I was reading this morning about Steve Clarke at Kilmarnock who has got them into 3rd place this year on a total budget of less than £2m. Last year they were 5th. All done with frees and loans and clever management of contracts and some coaching nous. That is the sort of over-achiement we need to show to attract players to the club.

You only achieve that with time though. Growing up, my first real memories are from after 1998 so, 2006 aside, the Conference years made a refreshing change in the sense that we won more than we lost and the hope from August lasted much longer.

My favourite games growing up were the big Championship games (Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth etc) so I would love us to return to that level. Without hundreds of millions I we couldn't sustain ourselves at that level but we can certainly aspire to sustain ourselves as a League One club with the occasional Championship spell.

Andy Holt said it right the other day when he said League One survival means Accrington are guaranteed league football for 2 seasons. Essentially promotion to League One would give us more of a safety net.

I'd be happy with mid table in league one. I grew up watching us play the majority of our football in the second tier, but as others have alluded, the way the game is now that seems an unlikely target. League one would be fine and respectable.

But I have no faith at all in the directors at the club to deliver anything but relegation from the football league again.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

You only achieve that with time though. Growing up, my first real memories are from after 1998 so, 2006 aside, the Conference years made a refreshing change in the sense that we won more than we lost and the hope from August lasted much longer.

My favourite games growing up were the big Championship games (Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth etc) so I would love us to return to that level. Without hundreds of millions I we couldn't sustain ourselves at that level but we can certainly aspire to sustain ourselves as a League One club with the occasional Championship spell.

Andy Holt said it right the other day when he said League One survival means Accrington are guaranteed league football for 2 seasons. Essentially promotion to League One would give us more of a safety net.

I agree with all that apart from the first sentence!

Steve Clarke achieved two seasons of great success, knowing beforehand that he had effectively no transfer budget in ............ two seasons! Starting from scratch.

Alan Buckley took Town to promotion on a shoestring from the old Div 4 to Div 2 in three seasons starting from a base of having only 5 or 6 signed players.

It can be done if the right manager has the right ideas and right personality to do it. I think there is a lot of bullcrap talked about budgets. Yes money can help you win  pots but if that is all that gets you there and you get used to it and once it is taken away you slide back like Crawley for example.

And of course there is luck.

With a new stadium and new owners a realistic ambition would be to engage the public of NE Lincs enough to average around 8k home fans in much improved facilities, top half of League One pushing for play offs. A dream would be for the club to operate like Brentford and comfortably cope with the challenge of the Championship on low gates plus large away followings by developing talent and actively sourcing unpolished diamonds from the lower leagues before selling them on...

Problem is.. I just can't see us ever getting to a starting point where we can all begin to dream. The sorry place we've found ourselves in "due to ITV Digital and football fortune not shining on us" has a feeling of permanance rather than being a passage in time or a blip in our history, it's gone on too long to be anything else..

Any notion that we might one day return to the championship is utterly crazy. We will never be able to do it financially. It’s premier league 2.
To be competitive at the top of L2 would be great.
I think we could aspire to establish ourselves in L1 but even that would be huge in the modern game.

In a nutshell, I'd want us to be aspirational not fearful.

We were lucky to support a club that always seemed to over-achieve but we have become a club for whom league survival is an achievement. I hear the stuff about ITV Digital, tax debts etc. but only 5 years before that we won twice at Wembley. The lack of ambition and drive from the boardroom is quite frightening and now, only 12 months on from a ST launch proclaiming the 'Jolley revolution' we find that nothing has really changed and we're struggling to hold on to players who finished 17th in League 2.

In short, we need a change - either in mentality or in personnel - but then most of us know that already.

If I have this right, I believe when Jolley was appointed as manager  Philip Day said we hope to be in the championship in 5 years time so to me Jolley has 3 and half years left to do so, very unlikely with the lack of investment

Quoted from chaos33

Any notion that we might one day return to the championship is utterly crazy. We will never be able to do it financially. It’s premier league 2.
To be competitive at the top of L2 would be great.
I think we could aspire to establish ourselves in L1 but even that would be huge in the modern game.

In our present guise, yes, utterly crazy, but that wasn't the question posed by the OP. It was answering a question based upon the dreams of having new owners and a new stadium.

Rotherham, Brentford, Wigan, Preston, Luton, Bournemouth, Millwall have all got to the Championship with gates not beyond what we could achieve with a new stadium and progressive ownership. Doncaster, Peterborough, Burton, Oxford and Fleetwood have all flirted with League One play-offs this season, but I agree the Championship is only Charlton, Coventry, Sunderland and Portsmouth short of being a Premier League Two as it stands with only a couple of places left for smaller clubs to have an admirable go at it every season.

Back to stark reality, I just can't see us ever getting out of the division we're in with our set up, well not upwards anyway. I think the years of sterility have got to us all. This town used to be known as a footballing town. I know people say that we can't look back at the gates we got in the 70s and 80s and the decades before that too, but it wasn't like the streets of NE Lincs were paved with gold then either. This area has always been a bit impoverished, it was just that Project GTFC was believed in and signed up to from time to time. When was the last time we could say that? The past two decades have beaten hope and aspiration out of us all when it comes to our football club and now we have a couple of generations of fans that haven't experienced better times or could even dream of what they felt like..

I'm inclined to agree with Bigdog. We could be a solid Third Division outfit that might flirt with the Second.

Back in the early 80s we were getting crowds of 7000. There's no reason why we can't get to that level with the right approach and engagement.

I'd like the Trust to be running the club (obviously that requires an influx of new blood on the Trust board) and not under some 'sugar daddy'.  I think in the long run that's the sustainable model. A greater sense of ownership would bring a greater connection with the population in NEL at large. The club could become a great source of local pride again.

Towns like Grimsby need to mobilise as much of the local population as possible in order to thrive. The population of GY is falling (and even though Cleethorpes has increased net pop for NEL has gone down slightly) and has got poorer over the last decade. The club needs to get better at capturing the interest of more people in order to survive and thrive.

It would also help when the club needs some support from the local authority because:
(1) it'd be more of a public asset and not the property of one or two rich individuals;
(2) with more people actively engaged with the club, electoral arithmetic would help persuade recalcitrant councillors.

What the club need to do, imho, is grow the fan base of the club instead of 'sticking with what we've got'. But, to do this there's got to be a product there that can be marketed. We need innovation and foresight, not the blinkered approach that seems to be the go to.

A ground that holds 9000 (?) is full once a season at best and an away end that rarely gets towards 50% capacity show you that there is certainly a lot of room for improvement. So, why not look at the match day ticket prices (and season tickets)  to get ar5es on seats? I know the argument is there for playing budgets etc but, at the moment at least, this somewhat vast divide between the top echelons and the fans needs to be bridged, and someone has to swallow their pride!

Quoted from Bigdog

With a new stadium and new owners a realistic ambition would be to engage the public of NE Lincs enough to average around 8k home fans in much improved facilities, top half of League One pushing for play offs. A dream would be for the club to operate like Brentford and comfortably cope with the challenge of the Championship on low gates plus large away followings by developing talent and actively sourcing unpolished diamonds from the lower leagues before selling them on...

Problem is.. I just can't see us ever getting to a starting point where we can all begin to dream. The sorry place we've found ourselves in "due to ITV Digital and football fortune not shining on us" has a feeling of permanance rather than being a passage in time or a blip in our history, it's gone on too long to be anything else..

I basically agree but each comparison with another club's achievements has to be taken in the context of their location and accessability. Brentford , being part of the largest city in England, has a lot more available " rough diamonds " in a close proximity. The prospect of a day out in London for an away match is certainly more appealing than an away day in Grimsby/Cleethorpes.

Quoted from rancido

I basically agree but each comparison with another club's achievements has to be taken in the context of their location and accessability. Brentford , being part of the largest city in England, has a lot more available " rough diamonds " in a close proximity. The prospect of a day out in London for an away match is certainly more appealing than an away day in Grimsby/Cleethorpes.

We can't keep being so over realistic to the point of being self-defeatist all the time, after all, in this thread we're discussing a dream scenario here with progressive new owners and the boost of a new stadium. If we were in the Championship of course we could attract players from the lower leagues and Brentford have an away end capacity of 2500. With a 14k stadium we should be able to allocate up to 4k for away followings and at least half of the clubs would flll it or bring at least 2k, Derby, Forest, Leeds, Villa, WBA, Sheff Wed, Barnsley, Middlesbrough, Stoke, Birmingham, Sunderland (if they get there) to name but a few. There's plenty of clubs who really look forward to a day out in Meggies and prefer it to schlepping it to London four or five times a season..There is so much this club could do, but not with this lot and not without a pot to pisss in..