These John Coleman/Accrington Stanley comparisons

I've seen various people on twitter using the example of John Coleman as Accrington Stanley manager as an example of what can be achieved if you give a manager time. It's a ridiculous comparison and here's why...

1st May 1999 - John Coleman appointed Accrington Stanley manager following their relegation to Northern Premier League Division One.
1999/2000 - Northern Premier League Division One Champions.
2000/2001 - Northern Premier League Premier Division 9th.
2001/2002 - Northern Premier League Premier Division 6th.
2002/2003 - Northern Premier League Premier Division Champions.
2003/2004 - Football Conference 10th.
Summer 2004 - Turned Professional.
2004/2005 - Football Conference 10th.
2005/2006 - Football Conference Champions.

So, in his first 7 seasons as ASFC manager he took over a relegated semi-professional club & took them to 3 promotions and into the Football League only 2 years after overseeing the club turn professional. In all 7 of those seasons he delivered more league wins than defeats and even in the non-promotion seasons the 2nd season saw the club achieved better results than the 1st season at that level. He managed exactly 300 league games in those 7 seasons and won 155 matches (51.7%) and lost only 76 (25.3%).

His record of season after season improvement continued in the Football League...

2006/2007 - League Two 20th.
2007/2008 - League Two 17th.
2008/2009 - League Two 16th.
2009/2010 - League Two 15th.
2010/2011 - League Two 5th.
24th January 2012 - Appointed Rochdale manager with ASFC 10th in League Two just 2 points off the play-offs.

His League Two record from 251 matches was 88 wins (35.1%), 61 draws (24.3%) & 102 defeats (40.6%). Overall his win percentage from 551 league matches was 44.1%.

And after he returned to Accrington Stanley...

18th September 2014 - Appointed Accrington Stanley manager with them in 20th.
2014/2015 - League Two 17th.
2015/2016 - League Two 4th.
2016/2017 - League Two 13th.
2017/2018 - League Two Champions.

In just under 4 seasons in League Two in 176 league matches he delivered 83 wins (47.2%), 43 draws (24.4%) & just 50 defeats (28.4%).

And Michael Jolley will drop to a 50% loss percentage for the season if he loses tomorrow or loses 2 of our last 3 league matches,

Conclusion

John Coleman is a very good football manager who has delivered success that would have been undreamt of by even the most optimistic Accrington Stanley fan when he took over 10 days short of 20 years ago.

Michael Jolley is doing a below average job and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as John Coleman.

Good to see you enjoying the lovely weather.

Wow, never realised how well he's actually done. How hes not been picked up by clubs higher up I'll never know.

Quoted from lukeo

Wow, never realised how well he's actually done. How hes not been picked up by clubs higher up I'll never know.

These stats don’t show how he fared at Rochdale...

The important omission is how he did it without the huge budget for players that many on here see as so vital, it's the manager that counts.

Coleman has got it Jolley hasn't

Quoted from Grantley

These stats don’t show how he fared at Rochdale...

He failed to keep them in League One after taking over in 23rd place in January 2012.

They sacked him in January 2013 with a Far better record than Michael Jolley has achieved this season.

I suppose bigger clubs like Rochdale have greater ambition and greater expectations than us.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

He failed to keep them in League One after taking over in 23rd place in January 2012.

They sacked him in January 2013 with a Far better record than Michael Jolley has achieved this season.

I suppose bigger clubs like Rochdale have greater ambition and greater expectations than us.

You wouldn't have thought that in the 1970/80s

Quoted from promotion plaice

You wouldn't have thought that in the 1970/80s

Yes it seems like yesterday when we were feeling sorry for Tony Ford taking such a step down from Grimsby.

Quoted from promotion plaice

You wouldn't have thought that in the 1970/80s

I don't think it now. For 17 of the first 23 years of my life Town were in the 2nd tier. When we were relegated to League Two in 2004 our previous longest spell in the 4th tier was just 6 years. 15 years and counting at that level or worse is horrendous under achievement. We're all frustrated with Fenty and co and how they run the club, but that doesn't excuse a manager who falls well below the expected level of both performance and results.

Probably an important part of that record is who the Stanley chairmen is/was, I'm sure someone on here could look it up, but if it's the same chap who's there now then it goes a long way to explaining Colemens record.

Quoted from promotion plaice

You wouldn't have thought that in the 1970/80s

He was being ironic i think. At least I hope he was.

I can accept we're a league 2 club and don't think we are punching below our weight. But I can't accept what people on here aree saying about how we are performing and our league position (I don't get to games anymore) if we are blooding youngsters and playing decent football miid table for me is acceptable (sorry to say) but I'd always hope we would push for the play offs atleast every other year. Clubbs are getting bigger and more money is being invested in most clubs these days, except us and maybe a couple of others.

Quoted from lukeo

I can accept we're a league 2 club and don't think we are punching below our weight. But I can't accept what people on here aree saying about how we are performing and our league position (I don't get to games anymore) if we are blooding youngsters and playing decent football miid table for me is acceptable (sorry to say) but I'd always hope we would push for the play offs atleast every other year. Clubbs are getting bigger and more money is being invested in most clubs these days, except us and maybe a couple of others.

He’s not blooding youngsters though is he? Our YTs have made a combined 3 substitute appearances between them this season.

Rose is inexperienced but age wise is a 2nd year pro. Clifton is in his 4th season as a pro.

Jolley likes talking about youth whilst not giving any of them a proper chance in a league match.

It’s all propaganda to distract from the terrible job he’s doing. We’re 17th- the same position we were in when Slade was sacked.

I'm not sure people have been saying that Jolley is comparable to Coleman and it is unfair to compare the two as they're at entirely different stages of their career.

What I think is fair to examine, is the fact that a club like Accrington Stanley have been able to be sustainable at our level and win our division.  Just like we should be looking at how a club down the road who were staring relegation to Conference North in the face, getting crowds of 2,500 and on their uppers, have been able to win two promotions in three years and treble their home crowds.

Michael Jolley is a young and inexperienced manager who has had some good moments but also made some mistakes but ultimately doing his best with what he has.  The people we should be critiquing aren't those who've been here five minutes, but those who've been here 20 years.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

I'm not sure people have been saying that Jolley is comparable to Coleman and it is unfair to compare the two as they're at entirely different stages of their career.

No me neither. It's almost as if the OP had spent hours preparing a load of stats and was desperate to post them

Some managers are just made for one club I doubt he could do anything like his achievements at Blundell Park the one thing he does benefit from is the geography of the club with so many clubs in commutable area all with academies releasing young players every year and he scoops them up and gives them a second chance something we will never be able to do.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

I'm not sure people have been saying that Jolley is comparable to Coleman and it is unfair to compare the two as they're at entirely different stages of their career.

What I think is fair to examine, is the fact that a club like Accrington Stanley have been able to be sustainable at our level and win our division.  Just like we should be looking at how a club down the road who were staring relegation to Conference North in the face, getting crowds of 2,500 and on their uppers, have been able to win two promotions in three years and treble their home crowds.

Michael Jolley is a young and inexperienced manager who has had some good moments but also made some mistakes but ultimately doing his best with what he has.  The people we should be critiquing aren't those who've been here five minutes, but those who've been here 20 years.

Of course Fenty deserves criticism. He’s overseen the worst spell in the history of GTFC.

But that doesn’t mean we should turn a blind eye to an underachieving manager who talks a good game but delivers nothing.

And you’re right Coleman & Jolley are at different stages of their careers. Coleman has a good 10 years left as an EFL manager. Jolley EFL management career might be over within 12 days.

As with most of Golly's stats, they are incomplete, and when he acknowledge's figures that lie outside his preferred range he dismisses them with a 'that doesn't count' argument like the 'Rochdale are more ambitious than us' one.

So in the interests of completeness:
Rochdale, lasted 24/1/2012 to 21/1/2013. 52 games. Win % 26.9
Southport, 7/12/13 to 3/5/14. 25 games. Win % 32
Sligo Rovers, 21/6/14 to 18/9/14. (Irish season is more of a Summer than Winter game). 15 games. Win % 46.7.

Draw your own conclusions from these.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

As with most of Golly's stats, they are incomplete, and when he acknowledge's figures that lie outside his preferred range he dismisses them with a 'that doesn't count' argument like the 'Rochdale are more ambitious than us' one.

So in the interests of completeness:
Rochdale, lasted 24/1/2012 to 21/1/2013. 52 games. Win % 26.9
Southport, 7/12/13 to 3/5/14. 25 games. Win % 32
Sligo Rovers, 21/6/14 to 18/9/14. (Irish season is more of a Summer than Winter game). 15 games. Win % 46.7.

Draw your own conclusions from these.

My conclusion is that he did not have long at those clubs to build a squad