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A constructive flaw in our gaffer

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Posh Harry
April 2, 2019, 6:04am
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Quoted from Abdul19


They did offer him a contract though, didn't they?


I believe so.

They offered him one year, we offered him two.
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Maringer
April 2, 2019, 10:57am
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Quoted from Bigdog


And wave goodbye to twenty different clubs who get promoted in the meantime? Bury, MK Dons, Colchester, Tranmere, Carlisle weren't that good this season and we had two close games with the champions elect Lincoln while FGR and Mansfield are the only teams that have really impressed me and seemed a cut above. F me, we're becoming so self-doubting over the years and over egging how difficult it is to get out of this division. We're barely scraping 3.5k fans at home, how many do you think would be patient enough to see those five years out? And if they don't, the jobs going to be so much harder to make those incremental steps you're talking about. Eight seasons to get out of League Two is ok.. christ on a bike..


Although I don't disagree that it isn't as hard to get out of this division as most of them, let's not forget that it is now 16 years since we played at a higher level than this one. We're not the only team trying to win promotion. The fact that the teams who get promoted are, in general, those who spend the most money is just a fact of life these days. If you don't have a top 7 budget in this division, it is an inescapable fact that you have to build more slowly with incremental changes to the team. I'm disappointed that progress this year hasn't been better but I think we're improved in some areas compared to last season. Just not enough of them.

I think there is no doubt that Jolley has made some errors in his signings and the way he has gone about things this season. The signing of Welsh, though it looked good on paper, was obviously a big gamble and one which has failed badly leaving us short in the middle. The two Swedish signings had obviously been planned in advance and, for me, it is a big gamble to play half the season without players who you intend to be regulars. I think the defensive signings have been mostly decent though Ring still has a lot to prove, but, as so often, we've failed to get the attackers and goal threat we require. Thomas has done a decent job in general with little support but I do hope that we'll see a settled forward line in pre-season with one or two more options up front. We're heading for a goal a game this season which is just not nearly good enough and we're going to be miles away from a positive goal difference once again. We're set up to defend in depth and then break but the defensive record shows that we're not even very good at this.

A change of approach required for next year, though not necessarily anything too major. If we're going to continue with 3-5-2 then Jolley needs to make sure he's got the players capable of playing wing-back, the central midfielders with the legs to play the formation and the forwards with the presence or ability to make the ball stick so support can catch up.

I think many sides in this division are just a few decent players away from being promotion contenders so I just hope that we can fill the gaps and target a play-off place next year. It would be helpful if the current moneybags of the division won promotion so we didn't have to compete against them next year though it's looks like Salford (with their Singaporean billionaire owner) might well be playing against us. Which is flipping ridiculous.
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RonMariner
April 2, 2019, 1:14pm

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Quoted from devs
Ginnywings is spot on IMO

I read the other day Blackburn (Championship) are sniffing around a striker from Nuneaton (bottom of Conf North) - that's what GTFC need to be doing; thinking outside the box and getting a non league striker with potential to the club



There's that JJ Hooper bloke .........

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rancido
April 2, 2019, 1:49pm

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Did we get incremental improvements under Hurst? It didn’t seem like that. I understand the thinking but bit by bit improvement just doesn’t work. It never has and never will. In 5 years there is more chance of being back in non-league than L1.

I would point at Lincoln and Tranmere for example. I would point at Buckley Mk1 &2 and Newman/Kerr/Booth. The common link is rapid progress despite  a limited budget. The key is momentum and keeping it going. The only sympathy I have for Hurst is that he did not get the backing to do this though personally I doubt if he could have done anything like the Cowleys or Buckley anyway.



The point about AB Mk1 was that he appeared to use his playing experience and relatively short management career to identify players that could play the syestem he wanted. This resulted in a combination of non-league ( Tilson, Alexander, Cockerill ) with experience ( Stout and O'Kelly ). MJ hasn't had that " luxury " so far but this last year will have gone a long way in addressing that..


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
April 2, 2019, 3:26pm
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Quoted from rancido


The point about AB Mk1 was that he appeared to use his playing experience and relatively short management career to identify players that could play the syestem he wanted. This resulted in a combination of non-league ( Tilson, Alexander, Cockerill ) with experience ( Stout and O'Kelly ). MJ hasn't had that " luxury " so far but this last year will have gone a long way in addressing that..


That is true but the point I was making is different. Buckley led the side to two successive promotions with much the same basic squad and adding to it by developing and selling players and as the income increased. His basic budget from Furneaux was not great.

There are lots of other examples - Watford, Wimbledon, Doncaster who went under and resurrected.

We could add Luton to the list in a way although their budget has been pretty reasonable under the latest ownership. But again the point is about keeping momentum going by knowing what works at a given level and sticking to it. Even now with a "caretaker" manager Luton are still winning.

MJ's problem this year is that he does not know this league, he has been on a learning curve and at the same time he was trying to be too clever with his 3-5-2. Players at this level need a system they can work with their eyes shut and adjust it slightly to suit the opposition. MJ is being too stubborn. He should copy what other sides have done to get promotion but try to do it better. Accrington would be a good model of a low budget success story for him.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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Tommy
April 2, 2019, 4:04pm
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MJ's problem this year is that he does not know this league, he has been on a learning curve and at the same time he was trying to be too clever with his 3-5-2. Players at this level need a system they can work with their eyes shut and adjust it slightly to suit the opposition. MJ is being too stubborn. He should copy what other sides have done to get promotion but try to do it better. Accrington would be a good model of a low budget success story for him.


Interesting that a few people use this phrase of trying to be too clever. I know sometimes people can overthink things or make needless changes, so I get what you probably mean. But is a formation that's just not "the norm" really trying to be too clever? Besides, there are a few sides in this division that use 3-5-2.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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RichMariner
April 2, 2019, 4:10pm
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I'm not chained to the idea that we have to play 4-4-2 but the one quality that system has over every other going is partnerships.

There are partnerships throughout. Think of our 97/98 squad... Macca and Donovan. Gally and Smith/Black. Handyside and Lever. Groves and Burnett. Nogan and Lester.

4-4-2 allows you to build up a deep understanding with your fellow players. Some positive off-the-field squad bonding, trust exercises, etc, and you're halfway there.

I agree with Buckley in that you shouldn't worry too much about the opposition. It's prudent to do your homework and be mindful of their threats but ultimately you have to be arrogant enough to believe that your way of playing is ultimately going to be a bigger threat to the opposition than the opposition are to you.

There have been times this season when Jolley has identified a flaw in our system and made changes early. He's not daft. But clearly, his ambition from the start was to build a squad that can play 3-5-2 (hence having about six central defenders) but once again, when we're struggling, we don't have options to switch it.

Right now we don't have the pace or personnel to play 4-4-2. We don't really have the 'big man' to play up top, as I don't see Thomas or Dennis as hold-up strikers; we don't have any out-and-out wingers, unless you count Max Wright, and we're really struggling for pace.

Too many players fall between positions. Where would the likes of a fit Embleton or Vernam fit in a 4-4-2? I don't think they have a natural place in that system.

It's a tricky conundrum, and I'm sure Jolley is intelligent enough to know that he may need to evolve this 3-5-2 system given its meagre returns. But that's what he's paid for.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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Tommy
April 2, 2019, 4:12pm
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Quoted from jonnyboy82


He thinks by having 2 strikers on the pitch we are somehow an attacking force , well he should and he probably will look at it and notice in most games we cant even get a shot off..



Absolutely correct to point out that 2 strikers doesn't automatically mean you are more attacking.

Flip the around though and it also doesn't mean that only playing with one striker is any less attacking. And the breakdowns many people have on here sometimes when we play a variation of 4-5-1/4-3-3, particularly at home are always misplaced and OTT.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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ska face
April 2, 2019, 4:16pm

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Funny how the people complaining loudest at 3-5-2 are the ones who spent years screaming at Hurst to “change it”.
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forza ivano
April 2, 2019, 4:34pm

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It seems to me , looking from afar and mainly watching the away games, is that he has more or less got the defensive 'stuff' sorted out. It seems like most of our best performances have been against the better teams when we have planned, or had , to play more defensively. The motivation and fitness problems also seem to have been solved.
it's all the 'positive' aspects that remains fixing - the skill, the inventiveness, the pace , the creativity and the goal scoring
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