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jamesgtfc
March 30, 2019, 9:03pm
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Quoted from Croxton
After listening to Jolley's interview on the M67 it's clear that he's either told JT not to question the 'system' or JT is being too delicate. Our wing backs hardly ever take on the last defender, simply playing tippy tappy near the touchline or recycling backwards.
Vernam looks to attack the box but has to start from deep. Supply to front men is dire.
Again, the opposition attack the space behind our wing backs requiring CB's to cover. Even with the right players, this system needs forwards and midfield to move with some fluidity. Movement, control and passing were woeful.
JT is giving Jolley an easy ride but at least probed enough to get MJ to say that he may need to be 'ruthless' in deciding who has done enough to be at the club next season.
77O fans deserved much more leadership and commitment today. A certain degree of feeling sorry for ourselves during and after the game.


Hendrie has delivered some great crosses from deep so I can see the thinking behind it down the right, particularly if RHJ is overlapping but our weak link is the left hand side. I want to reserve judgement on Ring after a full pre-season but he doesn't look good enough so far. He has played left of a back 3 before so that may be a better position for him.

Currently we seem to be playing a back 5 which is preventing us dominating the midfield. I want to see goals and currently we aren't creating much of note. Davis has played his better football in a back 4 but I would like to see the following given a go:

McKeown
Hendrie Davis Öhman Ring
Hessenthaler
Vernam Clifton Rose
Dennis

I want to see us attacking teams, getting the ball into the box with players arriving late. The pace of Vernam and Rose should cause havoc.

Clifton has the energy to get box to box but Vernam and Rose would ideally provide a link between midfield and attack or as an out ball wide.
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chaos33
March 30, 2019, 9:06pm
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Some good points Tommy. I'm going to be controversial, but Clifton is utterly overrated. Always talk of his 'energy', but where are his assists? Goals? Match winning performances.? Same for Hesenthaler, and Cook, and Embleton and Vernam and so on. They've all done far too little of decisive quality over the season. Not one player with the sort of indisputable stats that Bogle or Amond produced, for example. Too many of our defenders are average too, and we have no dangerous wide players at all. Look at the current squad.....Woolford, Cardwell, Cook, Clifton, Hesenthaler, Grayson, etc....offensively, weak.
If we want to see real progress as a club and team we'll need to do much better in all areas.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Northbank Mariner
March 30, 2019, 9:15pm
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Quoted from chaos33
Some good points Tommy. I'm going to be controversial, but Clifton is utterly overrated. Always talk of his 'energy', but where are his assists? Goals? Match winning performances.? Same for Hesenthaler, and Cook, and Embleton and Vernam and so on. They've all done far too little of decisive quality over the season. Not one player with the sort of indisputable stats that Bogle or Amond produced, for example. Too many of our defenders are average too, and we have no dangerous wide players at all. Look at the current squad.....Woolford, Cardwell, Cook, Clifton, Hesenthaler, Grayson, etc....offensively, weak.
If we want to see real progress as a club and team we'll need to do much better in all areas.


Disagree completely about Hess, he oozes class and is by far our stand out player, but he's being played too deep at the moment and as for Woolie, he is technically very good but his legs have gone, Clifton is far from overated, if you watched the warm up he pulled up and you could see he'd injured something, he should've been put on the on the bench from the start ..
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MuddyWaters
March 30, 2019, 9:19pm
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Quoted from chaos33
Some good points Tommy. I'm going to be controversial, but Clifton is utterly overrated. Always talk of his 'energy', but where are his assists? Goals? Match winning performances.? Same for Hesenthaler, and Cook, and Embleton and Vernam and so on. They've all done far too little of decisive quality over the season. Not one player with the sort of indisputable stats that Bogle or Amond produced, for example. Too many of our defenders are average too, and we have no dangerous wide players at all. Look at the current squad.....Woolford, Cardwell, Cook, Clifton, Hesenthaler, Grayson, etc....offensively, weak.
If we want to see real progress as a club and team we'll need to do much better in all areas.


In essence I agree. We’ve got too many players that are ‘alright ‘ but very little match winning quality. The only part of the season we looked potent was when Vernam and Embo played alongside Thomas in a 433. Ironically it coincided with a good run of form by Mitch Rose and culminated in good wins against Tranmere and Notts. We scored 9 of our 40 goals in two home wins.
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jamesgtfc
March 30, 2019, 9:25pm
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Quoted from MuddyWaters


In essence I agree. We’ve got too many players that are ‘alright ‘ but very little match winning quality. The only part of the season we looked potent was when Vernam and Embo played alongside Thomas in a 433. Ironically it coincided with a good run of form by Mitch Rose and culminated in good wins against Tranmere and Notts. We scored 9 of our 40 goals in two home wins.


2 games providing a quarter of our goals is disgraceful and further highlights our goalscoring problems.
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chaos33
March 30, 2019, 9:34pm
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


Disagree completely about Hess, he oozes class and is by far our stand out player, but he's being played too deep at the moment and as for Woolie, he is technically very good but his legs have gone, Clifton is far from overated, if you watched the warm up he pulled up and you could see he'd injured something, he should've been put on the on the bench from the start ..


Hess and Clifton are honest decent pro's, but where are the match saving,match turning or match winning performances? They're just not there. It's ok praising players for having great energy, and covering lots of ground etc, but they have to to affect games. Change games. Win games, with a goal or tackle, or set piece delivery, or free kick etc. Look at the stats for these two and plenty of others and it just hasn't happened. Or if it has, it hasn't happened with any sort of regularity at all.
There's no point in overstating the value of a player's energy, or commitment, or enthusiasm if it doesn't actually affect games. If that was all that mattered, we could stick supporters in the centre of midfield, or up front.

Nobody has really done enough, and that's pretty much indisputable. I think we have players that toil, and are honest and have some other qualities, but we don't have enough (or any) that have shown they can control, turn or boss a game. Nobody who will scare the opposition with their offensive threat. Until we instill that, we are going to be 17th best in L2.


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barralad
March 30, 2019, 9:47pm
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Couldn't be bothered to start the "Just Back" thread but pleased (if that is the right word) that a lot of posters whose views I respect seem to have seen it as I did.
I thought we missed Embleton badly today. There is nobody who has his energy or awareness and, I think he brings/brought out the best in Clifton.
For me the major issue and it simply shouldn't be one is our unfailing ability to pass the ball to someone wearing the same colour shirt with enough consistency. RHJ and the much maligned Ring were most guilty but in all honesty none of them really got to grips with the ball in pretty decent footballing conditions.
When you don't create many chances it puts the ones you miss in much sharper focus. Just our luck to come up against a keeper in really good form. Thomas's diving first half header was superbly touched over the bar and the save from Ohman's header just after we rattled the bar was Maccaesque. Apart from that all we had was Dennis's pass back to the keeper in the one on one and Cardwell's total misjudgement when found with a decent ball not long after he came on. At one point we had Cardwell, Vernam, Thomas, Dennis and Akheem all playing forward but without a hope in hell of anything like service from what was left of the midfield. Cardwell won a couple of headers but there was no-one within ten yards of him to make use of them. Vernam was fired up when he came on and instigated Town's most exciting ten minutes of the ninety but for whatever reason he couldn't maintain it.
The day was summed up by their second goal when possibly the smallest person in the box at the time was given an entirely free header...
It might take some getting used to this "nothing to play for" situation.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
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HertsGTFC
March 30, 2019, 9:47pm

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I don’t think Clifton is over rated but I just think he’s developing and I’m 100% convinced that if he was playing amongst a bit more dynamism in midfield he’d come on quicker.

MJ did say he uses a lot of data and we do look like a team with decent work rate covering a lot of ground but at the same time one without mid field creativity. This squad lacks balance which is a massive issue considering that MJ is determined to play in a certain shape.

We have a core of “good footballers” we need to add a few more in the summer and a couple “good players” to give us an identity as well as a heartbeat.

The team and the manager are a work in progress within a club that has regressed so if you look at the overall picture it’s better than it has been and only time will tell if it gets as good as we’d all like it to be.

Mid table for a couple of seasons yet I’m afraid but I’m still confident MJ will make us competitive if not dominant.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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moosey_club
March 30, 2019, 10:13pm
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
I don’t think Clifton is over rated but I just think he’s developing and I’m 100% convinced that if he was playing amongst a bit more dynamism in midfield he’d come on quicker.

MJ did say he uses a lot of data and we do look like a team with decent work rate covering a lot of ground but at the same time one without mid field creativity. This squad lacks balance which is a massive issue considering that MJ is determined to play in a certain shape.
t.


the only data he needs is in the "goals for" column.
In my perception Kev Drinkell moved about a total of 50 yds in a game, didn't tackle anyone, didnt track back but nobody looks at that data when you are scoring the goals.  
Staring at data can make you blind to the obvious....our strikers arent ruthless enough for the minimal amount of chances they get in a game. Simple.
Solution -  either increase the number of chances ..or improve the quality of the striker.

Thomas wasnt our first choice or probably our second or third ....... we "just missed out" on a huge signing in the Jan window..... Fenty has admitted the budget needs improving ....doesnt take a genius to work out that Jolley faces the same hindrances that other managers have faced, the budget isnt competetive which means we arent a powerhouse when it comes to the open market.
Under Hurst i think we ended up with about the 22nd choice striker one year didnt we ?

Until JF relinquishes the stranglehold on the budget we just wont recruit a stellar striker...therefore Jolley will have to effect the "create more chances" plan if we are to start winning more regularly.


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RichMariner
March 30, 2019, 11:00pm
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I'm really not one for getting involved in discussions about formations and systems and pining for 4-4-2 (or even 4-3-3) but this 3-5-2 we're using at the moment isn't incisive or dynamic enough to unpick the opposition.

I'm aware we've had some good results using it but, really, some of them have been by the odd goal with one piece of quality play - usually a Hendrie cross - being the difference.

I'm a Jolley advocate and I'm by no means suggesting he's seriously under pressure but the bloke has had more than a season in charge and quite honestly we don't look as good as the group of misfits he got firing on all cylinders last season.

The Notts County game in particular stands out for me. They were gunning for automatic promotion and we really gave them a game that day. Matt's winner in injury time was just rewards for our efforts, and those were players that I would say were inferior to what we have now, playing in a bog-standard formation.

It just concerns me that we're almost a year on from that game - and the game when JJ Hooper of all people dismantled Forest Green in their own back yard - and we don't look any better.

If this season finishes with a whimper then Jolley puts himself under a lot of pressure at the start of next season. Because, if we start 19/20 poorly, patience will be thin and he could find himself in trouble by September.

A slow start to next season might be tolerated more if we can finish this season in a bit of form - just as we did last season. The only reason he wasn't sacked in the autumn when we were in the bottom three was because of the way we got out of jail at the end of last season.


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