Who is good enough

Okay, so the season is over, not going up, not going down.

So who is good enough to be part of a team challenging for promotion?

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Okay, so the season is over, not going up, not going down.

So who is good enough to be part of a team challenging for promotion?

Not as many as we thought, but we haven't got the budget. Without the budget any managers hands are tied. MJ will give it his best shot of course, but we need real quality in the areas that matter.  

A new board with new money is more important.

Clifton, Hess, Cook, Davis, Ohman, Ring, Embleton, H-J, Macca, Vernam?,

mckeown, hessenthaler, embleton, clifton, thomas and hendrie and 2 of those won't be here next season

As LCL says, we are only as good as our budget allows us to be.

Looking back on recent home games, I would say Macca, Hess and Hendrie are the only consistent 7 out of 10 performers who are likely to be here next season. I like Vernam but he doesn't seem to have a role in the manager's system and I think it's a bit unfair to be too judgmental about the Swedish lads.

I think we're probably three or four decent players off a play-off team at present. At this level, it doesn't take too much you get you competing for the top 7 and we don't need too much of a turnover of players this summer.

I think we have the basis of a decent defence and midfield so just a couple of tweaks in those areas could make a difference, especially with Whitehouse to hopefully be back and fit next season. It's up front which is my main concern as the players we have contracted for next season don't have much of a scoring record and also lack experience. I don't think Thomas will stay, though he's done a decent job this season.

Question is, can some of the youngsters in the squad develop into their roles or will they only be good enough as bit-part players?

Think we're already set at GK, RB and central defence (if MJ wants to extend Whitmore's contract, if not a left footer to replace DC) but improvements in pace, physicality, composure and creativity will be needed in every other area, (wide areas x2, CM x2, forwards x2). Probably won't have the budget to buy all the attributes required in, so MJ will have to knit together a team that's more consistent instead. The big question will be.. in his second season, after three transfer windows and two pre-seasons, does our manager have the ability to turn a (hopefully) mid-table budget into a play-off chasing side like other managers at other clubs have done in the past?

I don't buy this as good as your budget thing. Many teams have been successful on lower   budgets. It's about creating a team with what you have. Don't forget we regularly need 10+ players in the summer. That is our Achilles heel and until that lowers consistently our success will be limited.

I guess it all depends on what happens when we get to 50 points doesn't it?

If playing and transfer budget is dramatically increased then i think a few more will be going

Quoted from VinnyGTFC

I don't buy this as good as your budget thing. Many teams have been successful on lower   budgets. It's about creating a team with what you have. Don't forget we regularly need 10+ players in the summer. That is our Achilles heel and until that lowers consistently our success will be limited.

Accrington Stanley went up on one of the lowest budgets in our league,

All you need is the right manager and the players who are able to follow the managers instructions,

BUT

More money helps  

I think what james mckeown said on the d3d4 podcast is really worth listening to, about the mental toll of playing football and how the younger players need to learn to switch off and let themselves relax between games and its something that comes with time and could explain why the teams faded a bit now were getting to the end

Feel after a few bad results people are being a bit overly harsh on what we all acknowledge is a fairly young squad, that when they were playing really well we were all quick to say ‘and they’ll keep getting better!’

Just by retaining this entire squad we’ll have a bit of a better team next season. A couple of quality additions and a couple of players that would add variety is what we need imo. I think the key could be having someone more developed in the embleton position, someone causing havoc and creating chances week in week out.

The question is more likely to be (from MJ's point of view) of the 10 players out of contract in May, who are we going to offer a new one to?

http://codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=4202

Feel we are not too far away
Defence is as good as most - Collins and Whitmore might not be here next season
Midfield - Embleton probably not coming back and Whitehousse coming back; Welsh? He will be a year older having hardly played but is on 2 year deal I believe? Woolford? MJ seems to rate him. Need a creatve type if we can find one

Up front is the major area for me - we need a consistent number of goals up top, not just good months and then nothing the next month.

Wes - not guaranteed to be here
Vernam - unless he adapts to a different role (the Woolford role?) then I can't see him fitting in and being a regular
Cook - the Woolford role?
Cardwell and Rose - both raw
Dennis - not sure about him and not sure he will be here

It's a worry - but I'd be putting  huge amount of budget into finding the next Podge and Bogle (although Podge was cheap as chips, I suspect)

NB: It's not just about budget - Norwich City are on cusp of PL and their back four has three players under 21 who either came from the ranks or lower league, including a lad from York City!

We have too many players that are quite good on there day but cannot keep it up for a season for some reason. Its no god being good for 4 games and bad for the next 4... i know its probably what you get at this level and with our playing budget , but other teams seem to a lot better than us in this department

There's some good quality in this current squad...Hess, rhj, Ohman, Davis, Clifton, Cook, Hendrie, Macca, Ring, Vernham ect but all young and my concern is we don't have enough experience if the likes of Collins, Woolie, Welsh, Thomas leave in the summer...if it was me I'd be looking to bring a midfielder, striker, defender or combinations of who are late twenties to give some balance between youth and experience..

I've got a funny feeling and I haven't had one for years but I think Embleton will be here next year

Quoted from WHYWONTYOULETMESIGNUP

I think what james mckeown said on the d3d4 podcast is really worth listening to, about the mental toll of playing football and how the younger players need to learn to switch off and let themselves relax between games and its something that comes with time and could explain why the teams faded a bit now were getting to the end

Feel after a few bad results people are being a bit overly harsh on what we all acknowledge is a fairly young squad, that when they were playing really well we were all quick to say ‘and they’ll keep getting better!’

Just by retaining this entire squad we’ll have a bit of a better team next season. A couple of quality additions and a couple of players that would add variety is what we need imo. I think the key could be having someone more developed in the embleton position, someone causing havoc and creating chances week in week out.

It's a bit of a myth that we've got a young squad relative to the other teams in the division. Can't remember where I saw it, but we were exactly middle out of all of the clubs in the EFL. I've found a list of youngest and oldest starting elevens in our league this season and we don't feature on either.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league-two/durchschnittsalter/wettbewerb/GB4

There needs to be a change of mindset at the club and fanbase. I know we've all been worn down by the past twenty years, but we can't keep finding reason after reason, excuse after excuse, season after season, because we won't get anywhere. At sometime in the near future someone has to put their balls on the line and set realisable goals..Someone who looks at all the reasons and excuses that are often laid out on here as merely hurdles to get over. It's ok to shoot for the stars and land on the moon rather than just habitually settling for the moon. The acceptance of mediocrity and willingness to accept it or give reasons for it, valid or not, is like a disease that's taken a grip on everyone, a common acceptance of who we purportedly are. The wise sages will all hand out doses of realism without realising that they're just adding to the long-standing malaise. There's hundreds of young players out there in their early twenties that are coping well enough with a long season, I don't buy why the ones at GTFC should be any different if managed correctly. We're not playing loads of teenagers, many are in their early to mid-twenties, so I can't even agree that the point is a valid one to make. The club's identity exudes a lack of confidence and low esteem in so many ways and has now somehow become entrenched and this needs to change..

I am concerned about the number of posters mentioning / relying on Whitehouse,He hasn't actually kicked a ball for us yet has he?

Quoted from Ipswin

I am concerned about the number of posters mentioning / relying on Whitehouse,He hasn't actually kicked a ball for us yet has he?

We tend to build up all our signings to a great level until we see them play!!!

That said reports, via a young pro at the club, is that he is looking a quality footballer in the training he has taken part in also reported to be one of nicest guys around so let’s hope he is a success.

Judging players is part & parcel of being a supporter but we should all remember players like Rob Jones who were twice the player in their second season. Players also improve and/or look much better when accompanied by better teammates alongside them.

That said I would retain

1. Both keepers
2. All but DC of the defenders, but would look to add pacy left back and more mobile centre back
3 Keep Hess, Clifton, so 3 new additions of which Whitehouse will be one, plus at least one wide player.
4 Keep Cook, Vernham but not sure about Thomas as feel we need a more physical specimen up front although would be happy for Wes to be part of improved squad.  Not sure why Cardwell given extension as not even benchwarmer nowadays so assuming he is not too demanding on our budget. Akeem needs to get more game time to judge his qualities and yet to see Max Wright play but he got the thumbs up from Ben Davies who is playing with him at Boston. Personally would suggest we need two quality forwards but like others mentioned Dennis not played sufficiently to see if he should be one of these.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/HIYcTel.png[/img]


Unfortunately I can only go on from the highlights on iFollow, and the first game of the season (lets just put that behind us  ), I don't get the chance these days to attend every game like you folks so I value your opinions   .

I think he'll trigger Whitmore's, RHJ and Davis's extensions.  He'll offer Thomas a new deal, maybe even try and sign Dennis if he's done well enough.  Hooper I can see getting let go, and maybe releasing Welsh, if he is unable to train or is still injured.  We cant afford to keep players who are unavailable for the first team really, and the wage could be used for someone younger.  I can see him offering Woolford a new deal as well.

I cannot see Elliot coming back, I think there would be interest higher up the leagues unfortunately.  I think that leaves Collins, I wouldn't be surprised if he was to become part of the coaching team instead.

I think he will keep the number of signings low, but with added quality.  Maybe a defender, couple of midfielders and a couple of strikers.

When you look at our overall results, take out the extreme ones , it boils down to our goal scoring.

We just don't have the goal threat throughout the side. One player in double figures is it ?  and nobody else anywhere near that.

We are capable of keeping it tight at the back and have showed some very organised disciplined defending as a unit across the season but mistakes have been punished and we havnt done the same at the other end.

I think Dennis is capable of that but until we are getting the ball in the box then little point in him playing.

There was a cracking (or terrible) example on Saturday, right on the stroke of half time we won a free kick in a cracking position on the edge of the box....wind behind us...crowded penalty area.....and we totally made a pigs ear of it....with the exception of Pringle we have not had a decent delivery from a set piece....we have hardly hit the target with any direct free kicks and even throw ins we turn the ball straight over to the opposition more often than not.

Quoted from golfer

I've got a funny feeling and I haven't had one for years but I think Embleton will be here next year

God knows why so many people have red-crossed this post. Is it because they don't believe you haven't had a funny feeling for years? Well I for one am prepared to take your word for it.

I actually don't think Embleton's been as good, over the course of the season, as most seem to believe. Had a good spell before xmas and is obviously a good player. But I wonder if he'd be bigged up so much if he was on loan to us from Fleetwood rather than Sunderland?

Before anyone jumps down my throat I'm clearly not saying he's not been a good player for us. I'd be happy if we signed him in the summer, and had maybe benefit from being in a better team too.  But I think people have gone a bit over the top with it. If Sunderland get promoted there's certainly no way he's ready for Championship football. I'd say another season of League Two football would be the best thing for him personally, before having a crack at League One the year after that.

We need big improvements in midfield, they have created very little this season.

Also the fact that Thomas has no assists whatsoever is not great as it shows his hold up play and bringing others into the game isnt great.

I have to disagree with most of the views on this thread.  The main issue with the current squad is inconsistency.  They have shown for several spells in the season that they are good enough to be at the top end of the table but struggled to maintain that form.  Despite that, even now a handful of different results would have seen us in the playoffs. We maybe don’t have the squad to be runaway leaders but results show we have potential to be firm play off contenders and we have the strongest squad since Slade MK1.

Why are we inconsistent?

- we’ve got a lot of young players who have never played 40+ games a season.  The majority of this squad will be back next season and will be a year more experienced with games under their belt.
- the manager has been developing the playing style and this takes time. Teams work out how to play against us and we need to keep evolving, having a plan B etc
- we have a young management team who have also never managed through a season and will be learning how to keep a squad fresh and motivated.
- as we get to this stage of the season, as play off hopes fade, player levels inevitably drop a bit, especially those who won’t be here next year.

What the team needs most is a summer of evolution.  Coming back next season with a settled squad and management and just a handful of new players is the key to success.

A few of our players whose contracts expire in May I would definitely try to keep but some of those signed for longer I would try to get rid of eg keep Hall-Johnson  offload Walsh

Quoted from monkeyboy

We need big improvements in midfield, they have created very little this season.

Also the fact that Thomas has no assists whatsoever is not great as it shows his hold up play and bringing others into the game isnt great.

He never has been a target man though has he? The manager will have known that. I think that for a 30+ journeyman striker, signed as a last minute stopgap and living 100+ miles away, the bloke has done well for us. God knows where we would be without his goals because nobody else has even looked like getting many even when we do eventually get the ball somewhere near the goal. If we want better we have to pay for it or grow another Kevin Drinkell. And we have to get a Welsh type leader on the field to dictate play who is fit and able to run further than to the nearest treatment table.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

He never has been a target man though has he? The manager will have known that. I think that for a 30+ journeyman striker, signed as a last minute stopgap and living 100+ miles away, the bloke has done well for us. God knows where we would be without his goals because nobody else has even looked like getting many even when we do eventually get the ball somewhere near the goal. If we want better we have to pay for it or grow another Kevin Drinkell. And we have to get a Welsh type leader on the field to dictate play who is fit and able to run further than to the nearest treatment table.

Someone to shout 'yakky dah!' in the middle of the pitch?

Quoted from LondonMariner43

I have to disagree with most of the views on this thread.  The main issue with the current squad is inconsistency.  They have shown for several spells in the season that they are good enough to be at the top end of the table but struggled to maintain that form.  Despite that, even now a handful of different results would have seen us in the playoffs. We maybe don’t have the squad to be runaway leaders but results show we have potential to be firm play off contenders and we have the strongest squad since Slade MK1.

Why are we inconsistent?

- we’ve got a lot of young players who have never played 40+ games a season.  The majority of this squad will be back next season and will be a year more experienced with games under their belt.
- the manager has been developing the playing style and this takes time. Teams work out how to play against us and we need to keep evolving, having a plan B etc
- we have a young management team who have also never managed through a season and will be learning how to keep a squad fresh and motivated.
- as we get to this stage of the season, as play off hopes fade, player levels inevitably drop a bit, especially those who won’t be here next year.

What the team needs most is a summer of evolution.  Coming back next season with a settled squad and management and just a handful of new players is the key to success.

Bang on IMO.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Someone to shout 'yakky dah!' in the middle of the pitch?

Harry Clifton perhaps 😉

[quote=1558]I have to disagree with most of the views on this thread.  The main issue with the current squad is inconsistency.  They have shown for several spells in the season that they are good enough to be at the top end of the table but struggled to maintain that form.  Despite that, even now a handful of different results would have seen us in the playoffs. We maybe don’t have the squad to be runaway leaders but results show we have potential to be firm play off contenders and we have the strongest squad since Slade MK1.

Do you think they have ever been that good? As i said previously in that little unbeaten run last month we beat MK Mongs, who were bang out of form, a reserve Newport side and 2 shiite teams in Cheltenham and Yeovil, ending with a fortuitous draw at Swindon. I'm trying to remember a series of good performances (even Jolley said that the Tranmere win was flattering). I've seen 2 battling performance at Palace & Northampton, 20 minutes of solid battling at Swindon and a good win v Non League Chesterfield. The other stuff v Morecamber (h), Stevenage & Cambridge etc has been very average, which reflects in our 16th postion.As is often said the league table doesn't lie.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Someone to shout 'yakky dah!' in the middle of the pitch?

ie  

GK
Macca

FB/WB
Hendrie
Ring
Hall johnson

CB
Davis
Ohman

CM
Hessenthaler
Clifton
Whitehouse (will be like a new signing himself?
Embleton (though will return to sunderland and probably loaned back out to league one next season

ST
Thomas ( though wont re-sign as will be picked up by southern league one club)
Cardwell (will be here as just signed a contract extension)

Need some more strengthening in the summer to push for promotion/play offs

Quoted from forza ivano

[quote=1558]I have to disagree with most of the views on this thread.  The main issue with the current squad is inconsistency.  They have shown for several spells in the season that they are good enough to be at the top end of the table but struggled to maintain that form.  Despite that, even now a handful of different results would have seen us in the playoffs. We maybe don’t have the squad to be runaway leaders but results show we have potential to be firm play off contenders and we have the strongest squad since Slade MK1.

Do you think they have ever been that good? As i said previously in that little unbeaten run last month we beat MK Mongs, who were bang out of form, a reserve Newport side and 2 shiite teams in Cheltenham and Yeovil, ending with a fortuitous draw at Swindon. I'm trying to remember a series of good performances (even Jolley said that the Tranmere win was flattering). I've seen 2 battling performance at Palace & Northampton, 20 minutes of solid battling at Swindon and a good win v Non League Chesterfield. The other stuff v Morecamber (h), Stevenage & Cambridge etc has been very average, which reflects in our 16th postion.As is often said the league table doesn't lie.

i see nobody has really answered or countered this. Has there actually been any games where you've thought that we have got the makings of a really good side? I've outlined the case for the prosecution above - any case for the defence? Apart from the above that i'd add that the 2 games where i can think of us playing well were against struggling, non league Chesterfield and struggling soon to be non league Notts County.
I will happily agree that this season's team is fitter & stronger (both mentally and physically) than last year and that we are more organised. the standard of player has also improved, although perhaps not as much as we hoped, but i think that we are not as close as some seem to think.

Quoted from forza ivano

i see nobody has really answered or countered this. Has there actually been any games where you've thought that we have got the makings of a really good side? I've outlined the case for the prosecution above - any case for the defence? Apart from the above that i'd add that the 2 games where i can think of us playing well were against struggling, non league Chesterfield and struggling soon to be non league Notts County.
I will happily agree that this season's team is fitter & stronger (both mentally and physically) than last year and that we are more organised. the standard of player has also improved, although perhaps not as much as we hoped, but i think that we are not as close as some seem to think.

To be honest, the best all round performance I have seen from town where I thought we looked like we could be onto something was the Lincoln game at home.
We tore their defence apart and bossed that game, might I add quite comfortably, but over the season the rest have been at best okay with some shockers in there too ...

Hopefully the start of next season will see us sign early rather than picking up old might have been that nobody else wants.

Now is the time I would suggest that we play our youngsters more, if only the last 20 mins, it took an age to start playing Clifton, I'm sure he was ready earlieri

Quoted from Garth

Hopefully the start of next season will see us sign early rather than picking up old might have been that nobody else wants.

This is always something that gets trotted out, but last year we signed Welsh, Hessenthaler, Whitmore, Davis, Whitehouse and Cook (and Robles!) before the last week of June.

And 2 of the players signed in August (Thomas and Hendrie) have been our best players this season.

Quoted from forza ivano

i see nobody has really answered or countered this. Has there actually been any games where you've thought that we have got the makings of a really good side? I've outlined the case for the prosecution above - any case for the defence? Apart from the above that i'd add that the 2 games where i can think of us playing well were against struggling, non league Chesterfield and struggling soon to be non league Notts County.
I will happily agree that this season's team is fitter & stronger (both mentally and physically) than last year and that we are more organised. the standard of player has also improved, although perhaps not as much as we hoped, but i think that we are not as close as some seem to think.

I don't agree with this notion that MK Dons were out of form (twice I might add), Cheltenham are crap (they're actually not that bad), etc, etc. ergo these ones don't count. Does a team have to be in form for you to put a good performance in against them? We were excellent at home to Lincoln and I thought we were very good at home to Colchester too, for what it's worth.

Quoted from Son of Cod

I don't agree with this notion that MK Dons were out of form (twice I might add), Cheltenham are crap (they're actually not that bad), etc, etc. ergo these ones don't count. Does a team have to be in form for you to put a good performance in against them? We were excellent at home to Lincoln and I thought we were very good at home to Colchester too, for what it's worth.

point taken, but that's 5 out of 42. i'm not trying to be overly critical, but we do have a tendency to get ahead of ourselves. i think my over riding impression is that we're not a good team, but we are a battling team