Just back

On the bus.

The team today totally worked their backsides off and they should be very proud of themselves, I know I am.

UTM

You fans should be immensely proud of yourselves, watched on bet365 so no commentary, gave me goosebumps so many times you were immensely loud and together

And then the absolute best part for me was outsinging palace with ‘mariners’ while they were still celebrating their goal, bet that will make a massive difference to how the players feel right now so well done all of you

Again from a distance had to follow the game on the BBC website. Absolutely fantastic effort from the lads. We can hold our heads up high and need to fear no one in League 2. We need to get the injuries over with and then press on.
What is the feeling about the sending off? Was the red justified after just two minutes?

Amazing performance. So proud. We battled brilliantly, and deserved a replay. The girl private in the middle atkinson saw to it that we didnt. He was a disgrace. But wel done town you were incredible

I thought at the time that it was a harsh red, but having seen a replay it's a red all day long IMHO

No argumenrs with the red. It was the free kicks he gave all afternoon

Quoted from hampshiremariner

Again from a distance had to follow the game on the BBC website. Absolutely fantastic effort from the lads. We can hold our heads up high and need to fear no one in League 2. We need to get the injuries over with and then press on.
What is the feeling about the sending off? Was the red justified after just two minutes?

Atkinson gave a yellow, why VAR is getting involved I dont know. Giving a yellow for that foul wasn't an obvious error.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

Atkinson gave a yellow, why VAR is getting involved I dont know. Giving a yellow for that foul wasn't an obvious error.

VAR is doomed now, how the ref gets a better view of it than he did originally is strange. But it basically means in a VAR game that a player can request a replay for every yellow card given in the hope that the offence looks worse on a replay and a red given. How open to abuse this is will depend on the honesty(?) of current players. Can the opposite be done? Had VAR been at Wembley that day and Scott Neilson had asked for a replay would the red be rescinded and given to the opposition player for outrageous diving?
The repercussions from the Man U game are still rumbling on, God help us but VAR is actually blurring the offside rule even more. Maybe limit VAR to goal-line was-it over-the-line technology only?
And invest a little more time into making the game more honest...I don't live in much hope...

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

Atkinson gave a yellow, why VAR is getting involved I dont know. Giving a yellow for that foul wasn't an obvious error.

The foul was correctly deemed to be a red card offence
VAR overruled the yellow card decision which was incorrect-that's the purpose of the system.

Quoted from RoboCod

VAR is doomed now, how the ref gets a better view of it than he did originally is strange. But it basically means in a VAR game that a player can request a replay for every yellow card given in the hope that the offence looks worse on a replay and a red given. How open to abuse this is will depend on the honesty(?) of current players. Can the opposite be done? Had VAR been at Wembley that day and Scott Neilson had asked for a replay would the red be rescinded and given to the opposition player for outrageous diving?
The repercussions from the Man U game are still rumbling on, God help us but VAR is actually blurring the offside rule even more. Maybe limit VAR to goal-line was-it over-the-line technology only?
And invest a little more time into making the game more honest...I don't live in much hope...

The player didn't request a replay & the ref cant request one.
VAR would have contacted the ref to inform him of the red card offence.

What I don’t like about VAR is that the man in the middle isn’t actually in charge. Some fella in a room god knows where can influence the game.

Many other countries actually get the ref to check his own decision.

When you have it the way it was tonight two people may have seen that two different ways, who’s right?

I've seen Atkinson a lot at Saints and he is a very authoritarian referee. Does not seem to strike up any rapport with the players and he can make some very strange decisions. But if our own supporters say it was a red, then that's it really. Great shame for the boy. Even Roy Hodgson was sympathetic and full of praise for us.
In all truth, however, we didn't need a replay. We've had a hard Xmas and need to get the injures sorted and the lads need to recharge their batteries. The spirit in the side is the best it's been for a long time.

Quoted from Stadium

The foul was correctly deemed to be a red card offence
VAR overruled the yellow card decision which was incorrect-that's the purpose of the system.

Correct? It's a judgement call. Atkinson judged it yellow, as would many other refs. Many or even most would have said it's red, fair enough. But to say that Atkinson got is so badly wrong he had to be overruled by an external official is a big claim and one I disagree with.

What an amazing game. So proud of the effort put in by everyone on the pitch... they played their arses off. Absolutely amazing performance and made Palace look distinctly average. Hard not to imagine what could have been with 11 men.

Support magnificent as well. The singing never stopped all game. Incredible. Stopping off for a curry in Caterham now and heading back home!

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

Correct? It's a judgement call. Atkinson judged it yellow, as would many other refs. Many or even most would have said it's red, fair enough. But to say that Atkinson got is so badly wrong he had to be overruled by an external official is a big claim and one I disagree with.

Well I think most people would agree he did get it wrong-it was a red card.
Criticise the ref if you wish but VAR called the offence correctly.

The issue was Townsend's gamesmanship in the first minute, rolling around trying to get Fox punished. There was always going to be a player that needed a minute or two to settle down. A player at that level should know this.

No-one intends to hurt anyone in the first minute, near the half-way line. A booking would have sufficed - it was mis-timed and caused no harm. Probably only happened because Fox was probably buzzing having just started a match at a premier league ground.

Palace beat Man City on their own patch 2-3, so we are better than Man City.  

Quoted from Stadium

The player didn't request a replay & the ref cant request one.
VAR would have contacted the ref to inform him of the red card offence.

The game seemed to go on for some time after, with Townsend moaning and harrying the ref. We see much worse challenges week in week out, often unpunished but only in VAR games will these actually be punished, which seems to be bordering on a 2-tier refereeing system.
It's also worth noting that the early 'limiter' challenge is still popular, the crunching tackle/foul in the first 2 or 3 minutes that doesn't get a card as the ref (mostly) sees the game as in its early, settling down stages. Be interesting to see how VAR may handle that.

Quoted from Stadium

Well I think most people would agree he did get it wrong-it was a red card.
Criticise the ref if you wish but VAR called the offence correctly.

You're still missing the point. I'm not criticising the ref, I'm criticising the fact that his judgement that it was only a yellow was not so spectacularly wrong that it required overruling.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

You're still missing the point. I'm not criticising the ref, I'm criticising the fact that his judgement that it was only a yellow was not so spectacularly wrong that it required overruling.

If you hang around long enough, he will tell you what subjects you are allowed to have an opinion on.

Quoted from ginnywings

If you hang around long enough, he will tell you what subjects you are allowed to have an opinion on.

HaHa.
If only but its a football internet forum.

  

Quoted from chicaneuk

What an amazing game. So proud of the effort put in by everyone on the pitch... they played their arses off. Absolutely amazing performance and made Palace look distinctly average. Hard not to imagine what could have been with 11 men.

Support magnificent as well. The singing never stopped all game. Incredible. Stopping off for a curry in Caterham now and heading back home!

Just like to reinforce this view, easy to get sidetracked with the VAR thing. What a performance. Every player fighting for the team.
MJ has really got these guys playing and looking super fit, they looked far from ragged at the whistle despite the missing player.

I'm still recovering from my Xmas OD'ing of mince pies and beer and I was gasping for air for them, the new regime looks to be paying off in all departments.

Quoted from Stadium

Well I think most people would agree he did get it wrong-it was a red card.
Criticise the ref if you wish but VAR called the offence correctly.

The referee saw it as a yellow card offence, taking into account the context of the game. It was a foul, due entirely to the Place players quick feet, but  the referee had a full view of it and in his opinion, it was a yellow.

VAR will ruin the game if it starts overturning things that the referee has clearly seen, passed a decision on and allowed play to continue.

Isn't the issue around whether the ref. could decide to ignore the VAR official? Would he have been in trouble if when presented post match with the "evidence" he chose to ignore it.

Quoted from barralad

Isn't the issue around whether the ref. could decide to ignore the VAR official? Would he have been in trouble if when presented post match with the "evidence" he chose to ignore it.

I’m sure, like me, you remember FA Cup games full of atmosphere and passion. That will end forever if VAR makes refs officiate via a text book. The timing of the challenge and the context of the game must play a part in decision making otherwise the Cup will die.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The referee saw it as a yellow card offence, taking into account the context of the game. It was a foul, due entirely to the Place players quick feet, but  the referee had a full view of it and in his opinion, it was a yellow.

VAR will ruin the game if it starts overturning things that the referee has clearly seen, passed a decision on and allowed play to continue.

Taking into account the context of any game, the only way VAR can work is if the referee himself reviews the footage..

Quoted from barralad

Isn't the issue around whether the ref. could decide to ignore the VAR official? Would he have been in trouble if when presented post match with the "evidence" he chose to ignore it.

There seems to be far too many unanswered questions re VAR altogether. I never thought it would be used to turn a yellow card into a red, when the referee has clearly seen the offence, acted upon it and play continued. Stupid. Why have a referee at all?

The referee wasn't even allowed to see the tackle again - it was another ref in front of a computer screen who overturned the decision. But that is the point of referees - they give a decision as they see fit; one sees yellow, one sees red - who is correct? We will now need a second VAR judge to give a casting vote the way we are going.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I’m sure, like me, you remember FA Cup games full of atmosphere and passion. That will end forever if VAR makes refs officiate via a text book. The timing of the challenge and the context of the game must play a part in decision making otherwise the Cup will die.

Oh I don't disagree with any of what you say. I think it puts refs in an impossible position. It will be a very brave ref who goes against hard video evidence. That though is as much sympathy as he gets because he was shocking for 90 minutes..

My concern is that there was almost a minute of football played until the ref pulled the game up. Only because their player kicked it into touch, presumably as he thought Townsend was actually injured did the ref confer with VAR.
Had the game continued for another 5 minutes without the ball going dead, does the ref eventually pull the game up and send a player **off?**
VAR in these situations is not going to help the ebb and flow of the game, it's all very unnatural to run games in this way.

** EDIT** And if that player should score a goal in that 5 minute period, then get his marching orders??  

Future refs - why? Why be one? You are going to be torn apart by VAR! Incentive - unless the money is irresistible?

Pisses me off that you get a yellow in a game and the fa cant up it to a red after if it was a red card offence. But var can? After the yellow has been shown. Cruel

I've seen the replay and, I must admit, as difficult as it is to accept, it's probably a red.

However, he looks like he brushed Townsend's shin. He'd have barely felt it. No need to pretend he was hurt by it, but that's what modern-day Premier League footballers do these days.

Martin Atkinson was on the field and close to the incident. He saw it and judged it a yellow card.

I think that's why it's difficult to accept.

But what a brilliant performance by every one of those heroes in black and white stripes. They gave it absolutely everything. Don't think I'd have been prouder if we actually held out for the draw.

In a way, that goal doesn't really change anything. We were simply magnificent.

On balance, having viewed it again with less emotion, it was a red i think, which means Atkinson got that wrong too, along with just about everything else. He was shocking.

Technically, it was a red card, but common sense should have prevailed. The referee should have determined that the game was only 90 seconds in and that it was one of Grimsby's biggest games in years, where the players were obviously fired up to give everything. Townsend going down like a sack of potatoes did not help. Sensible decision would have been yellow card with a stern warning.

Not sure if he was shocking or just officiating the match to Premier League standards.

I'm not saying Premier League standards are necessarily better standards. They're just different.

Palace players are already familiar with them. We're not. Martin Atkinson wouldn't admit it but I'm sure he felt a duty to protect Palace players more than any of our lot because, you know, he's a Premier League referee.

One of our players crocking Zaha would be a bigger story in the press than if Scott Dann crocked Wes Thomas.

Thought it might be a red was my first reaction. The var rules do not take into account the fans in the stadiun. A lot of alcohol was consumed and bottles were thrown. Had one of them hit a person it could have had severe repercussions. It needs to be clearer and we see it for ourselves. After that town were magnificent. Embleton had a great chance at the end, made space for himself and hit it just over. We could have nicked a draw, but you can't argue with the result. In terms of tension it was right up there for the whole 90 mins.

Quoted from ginnywings

On balance, having viewed it again with less emotion, it was a red i think, which means Atkinson got that wrong too, along with just about everything else. He was shocking.

So why didn't VAR get used to "correct' Atkinsons mistakes, or weren't they in favour of the premier club!!

I do sometimes wonder if the premier league and the rest of English football are two different sports!

The VAR debate could go on forever. Lets just be proud of the boys, what a day.

After a really romantic evening for me and the non-wife in Spoons not far from Selhurst I can say I am now just back.

Without doubt the performance of the season (that I have witnessed anyway). Talk about up against it!

The red is correct and booing Townsend for the VAR overruling the referee on the field is bizarre. That said I’ve no idea why Mr Atkinson hasn’t (to my knowledge) consulted a screen to confirm to himself that he made an error. I thought that  stipulation of VAR was a clear and obvious mistake can be overrulled? He clearly saw it and adjudged it to be a yellow.

All we can ask for as fans is the most effort a player can offer. We got that and more today. Outstanding.

Well I'm 65 and that's as close as I've been to crying at a football match for a long time. 83 minutes with 10 men against a decent premiership side and it was snatched away. Heartbreaking. However, what a magnificent, brave performance from our boys and everyone should be so proud of their efforts
Town fans were amazing from start to finish. Don't think I'll ever hear the name Andros Townsend again without smiling at the continuous chant every time he touched the ball. My grandson laughed so loud every time!
Well done boys, you made an old man very proud

No idea how anyone could pay to watch premier league footballers each week. An absolute ballet of frauds, cosseted millionaires playing a game cultivated for highlight reels and YouTube clips. My head has fully fallen off at that VAR joke, every challenge looks worse if you slow it down and look for reasons to send someone off.

They’re fuccking welcome to it. Cuunts.

Didn't want to mention the referee on my other post but not sure he got too much wrong without seeing highlights. Premiership players look so much stronger that those in lower leagues and it looks so much harder to get the ball off them

Stronger? They fall down if you brush up against them.

The problem is that VAR SHOULD have been used in EVERY FA cup tie played or not at ALL, had the game been played BP with no VAR Fox would have been still on the pitch.

Typical FA inconsistent with everything they do, more worried about the foreign viewers, than the actual suppoters who have to travel to games at ridicious times.  In my opinion the FA is ruining the whole fabric, of this once beautiful game. For what Money, its says it will plough into grassroots football. I wonder how much the FA spends on accessors each week? I can tell you how most refs and linesmans have preformed, SH-T.

I had no time for the Premiershit, its just eroding the game, managers moaing playing to many games, treating the League and FA cups with no respect. Wanting winter breaks, Christmas football in THIS country is and has been a tradition, if you don't like our football schedule, then F--k-off, or wait a minute they like the MONEY, its not about the football anymore.

I am proud to a Mariner, was not able to go today, but the players, coaching staff and the travelling black and white army were AWESOME.

UTM

Quoted from fishyfanny

On the bus.

The team today totally worked their backsides off and they should be very proud of themselves, I know I am.

UTM

Good on them.Cant be easy being a lower league player with the uncertainty of it all.Hopefully this game will live long in the memory of many of the players .

Great effort from Town. VAR can intercourse off.

Don't like VAR but having seen the tackle again I think it was a red so won't grumble about it. Anyway, the 88 minutes after that were superb; every man a credit to the club. Sure it looked like we rode our luck at times, but I honestly started to believe were we going to hold out for a replay - I reckon McKeown made more saves last Saturday than today. Great atmosphere and proud to be mariner tonight  

Good day out, players put everything on the line for the cause, Macca was emense, fans where amazing.. Gutted about the goal as I felt we did so well to hold them off for that long.
UTM

For 63 years I have been proud to be a mariner,
BUT
Today I have never been more proud

The ten men stood up to their premershit  rivals and were very unlucky not to come away with a hard fought draw at least.

The fans were magnificent as well , what a day,

Lets move on and stuff the brain of Britain/s  team next week and continue our move up the table.

Thank you Michael Jolley and all the team for a very memorable day.

Against Palace and Exeter we have faced 70 odd shots at goal in away games and earned 2-2 on aggregate.  Both teams higher ranked.

We have tremendous spirit and courage with no defensive resources. This starts from Jolley.

For the rest of the season we can progress and build a solid platform for next season.  New players coming in.  Next season we could do a Leicester or Lincoln.  We have something realistic to aim for.

Quoted from The Yard Dog

The problem is that VAR SHOULD have been used in EVERY FA cup tie played or not at ALL, had the game been played BP with no VAR Fox would have been still on the pitch.

Typical FA inconsistent with everything they do, more worried about the foreign viewers, than the actual suppoters who have to travel to games at ridicious times.  In my opinion the FA is ruining the whole fabric, of this once beautiful game. For what Money, its says it will plough into grassroots football. I wonder how much the FA spends on accessors each week? I can tell you how most refs and linesmans have preformed, SH-T.

I had no time for the Premiershit, its just eroding the game, managers moaing playing to many games, treating the League and FA cups with no respect. Wanting winter breaks, Christmas football in THIS country is and has been a tradition, if you don't like our football schedule, then F--k-off, or wait a minute they like the MONEY, its not about the football anymore.

I am proud to a Mariner, was not able to go today, but the players, coaching staff and the travelling black and white army were AWESOME.

UTM

This, totally agree. The BBC were debating earlier about Premiership teams devaluing the FA cup by fielding a weakened team and then what do they do ? Send out the reserve side for Match Of The Day.

Shout out to Jolley's tactics too, man marking all over the pitch. It's a tactic he used against Malmo and there's a really good video of him explaining it on youtube under coaches voice.

I thought Town where excellent today. A real shift from a team that ooze unity, attitude, application, work rate and unlike many others in professional football honesty.

Was it a sending off? Yeah probably in the circus that is the Premier league but in the context of this game and the two sides involved the “refs” should arguably not apply the letter of the law and just stick to a yellow.

To a man the players where absolutely superb and it would be unfair to single anyone above another but I do wonder if M Rose took Zaha out of his pocket before he got on the bus home.

Today we saw a glimpse of what the Premier league can offer the WWE of professional football..... Over done, false and at times stage managed.

Gutted as we deserved a draw but tonight “so proud to be GTFC”.

UTM!!!

Went today and so proud of the lads, what an incredible job they did defending with 10 men for so long, absolutely sensational performance. Actually started to believe we would do it, but it wasn't quite to be. Rhj, rose, hendrie, Clifton, Hess, macca, some really great performances in there. Hope we can take some of that belief and resolution into the remaining games of the season.  Come on town.

Just back home (via a beer in New Cross and a Kebab in Lewisham!!) and one thing I will say is that the Palace fans were very classy - they waited until Town walked off the pitch and applauded them off.  

Great to see an almost full stadium.  Good to see cheaper tickets bringing a full stadium..

Gutted to lose but great atmosphere and life goes on......

Well I can't see it as a red. And from what I recall the 'free kick' just before the goal should have been awarded to us. We was robbed.

Quoted from Mariner93er

Shout out to Jolley's tactics too, man marking all over the pitch. It's a tactic he used against Malmo and there's a really good video of him explaining it on youtube under coaches voice.

Incredibly intelligent defensive display - not just man marking -Woolford, Cardwell, Harry, Hess, Thomas did a really efficient zonal job as well -"handing" over Palace players to each other and marshalling them to close down space where it mattered and letting them have the space when it didn't so they could negate the extra man.

Impressed with the Palace fans - they turned up in numbers, made some noise and applauded us off - couldn't ask for more really.

Quoted from RoboCod

The game seemed to go on for some time after, with Townsend moaning and harrying the ref. We see much worse challenges week in week out, often unpunished but only in VAR games will these actually be punished, which seems to be bordering on a 2-tier refereeing system.
It's also worth noting that the early 'limiter' challenge is still popular, the crunching tackle/foul in the first 2 or 3 minutes that doesn't get a card as the ref (mostly) sees the game as in its early, settling down stages. Be interesting to see how VAR may handle that.

We just did !!!

i have no qualms about the red being correct today....but my issue is that again its only applied to a few games in the same competition which is then going to give one side an advantage to progress to the next round.  Today Palace got the benefit as Atkinson was only going to issue a yellow....there could have been an exact same tackle in any other cup game this weekend where the ref issued a yellow and without VAR it would have stood....giving an adantage to one side and disadvantage to the other.

It should be carpet use across every game or not at all IMO.

Quoted from Kennyh

Technically, it was a red card, but common sense should have prevailed. The referee should have determined that the game was only 90 seconds in and that it was one of Grimsby's biggest games in years, where the players were obviously fired up to give everything. Townsend going down like a sack of potatoes did not help. Sensible decision would have been yellow card with a stern warning.

Yes.

But the ref's don't use discretion any more do they - soon the Prem will be reffed by robots...however I wonder if the ref would have overruled the VAR if it had been a Palace player that went in high after 90 seconds...

If VAR wasn’t used in all the World Cup games Croatia would possibly be world champions

Well, it’s gone 1am and I’m just back home in Leeds, and boy am I proud. Proud of our fantastic support and even more proud of the players in black and white (plus one in yellow) on the pitch.

I said before the game that I felt it was a tough ask against a strong, Premier League lineup (even without a single centre half on the pitch) and that I’d be happy so long as we didn’t pull a Tranmere or lose to a late, undeserved goal as we did to Huddersfield a few years back. Sadly, the latter would transpire.

I missed Fox’s challenge at the time and haven’t seen it back, but given a red card was awarded via VAR and those who’ve seen it mostly seem to concur the decision was correct there’s not much of a case to argue.

It was a real shame as it took the wind out of the atmosphere for a while and clearly altered the shape of the game but I hold no ill feeling towards Fox - it’s early in the game, he’s likely nervous and full of adrenalin and no doubt will have been instructed to get stuck in early doors. In many ways VAR makes a lot of sense however it doesn’t afford any discretion for things like that. Is that right? I don’t know.

Two minutes in I was worried we might take a real hammering but as poor as Palace were for a top flight side, Town were out of this world. Absolutely no one stood out for Palace but I think we can ultimately take credit for that - we were brilliantly organised and wanted it more than they did.

What I will say about Palace though is that I thought their fans were fantastic. Individually, the ones I met were pleasant and respectful and they turned out in great numbers for a game that was equivalent (in terms of the gap in league places) to us playing an Evostik team. They made plenty of noise behind the goal and the way almost the entire lower tier of the Holmsdale End stayed behind to clap the Town players off the pitch showed real class.

A nod to Selhurst Park too. By no means state of the art, but a proper old school ground that has real charm. Maybe it’s just the nostalgia in me, but I loved it.

Anyway, for the first time in a long time I’m thoroughly enjoying being a Town fan and I can’t wait for Saturday.

I’ll say again: so, so proud tonight!

Does anyone else still feel cheated this morning? I certainly do. As much as I remain immensely proud of a team who really have shown that we are moving in the right direction in recent weeks, I also remain completely and utterly disgusted about how we were treated by officialdom in that game.

Let's begin with the sending off. As far as I am concerned, it cannot possibly qualify as a clear and obvious error. A clear and obvious error, in any sensible definition, is one of mistaken identity, a foul being given which wasn't or a player scoring from an offside position. If the original decision had stood, no-one would have batted an eyelid. Yet, because of some incompetent illegitimate sitting in a room nowhere near the play, we were left with a mountain to climb.

That mountain became ever steeper because of the plain and simple bias of Martin Atkinson. The Premier League referee gave every single little thing that he could to the Premier League side. If he is meant to be one of the better referees in this country, then it proves exactly why no English referees were selected to go to the World Cup last summer. He, and they, are simply not up to the task of officiating fairly and properly.

Quoted from EY Mariner

Does anyone else still feel cheated this morning? I certainly do. As much as I remain immensely proud of a team who really have shown that we are moving in the right direction in recent weeks, I also remain completely and utterly disgusted about how we were treated by officialdom in that game.

Let's begin with the sending off. As far as I am concerned, it cannot possibly qualify as a clear and obvious error. A clear and obvious error, in any sensible definition, is one of mistaken identity, a foul being given which wasn't or a player scoring from an offside position. If the original decision had stood, no-one would have batted an eyelid. Yet, because of some incompetent illegitimate sitting in a room nowhere near the play, we were left with a mountain to climb.

That mountain became ever steeper because of the plain and simple bias of Martin Atkinson. The Premier League referee gave every single little thing that he could to the Premier League side. If he is meant to be one of the better referees in this country, then it proves exactly why no English referees were selected to go to the World Cup last summer. He, and they, are simply not up to the task of officiating fairly and properly.

I totally agree with this and yes I do still feel cheated.

The most experienced referee in the Premier League saw the challenge which was about 5 yards away from him. He being the match official took into account that it was the very first meaningful tackle in the game; he took into account the conditions of a slick playing surface, the players intent and whether he tried to play the ball, or was just beaten by Townsend's skill (probably the most skilful player he has faced).  

Atkinson took all that into account and gave a yellow card and allowed play to continue.

I was annoyed with Fox because he shouldn't have put himself in that position, but a yellow would have sent the message to him and the others.

I am incredulous that the decision was overturned by Jon Moss, who is a less experienced official, because in the cold light of a replay it looked a dangerous tackle. I didn't even think VAR was designed for such incidents when the match referee had clearly seen the incident.

If VAR is introduced it will produce a stop start game which will be horrible to watch if every contentious decision is looked at.

2 referees. One thought it a yellow, one thought it a red.

Quoted from EY Mariner

Does anyone else still feel cheated this morning? I certainly do. As much as I remain immensely proud of a team who really have shown that we are moving in the right direction in recent weeks, I also remain completely and utterly disgusted about how we were treated by officialdom in that game.

Let's begin with the sending off. As far as I am concerned, it cannot possibly qualify as a clear and obvious error. A clear and obvious error, in any sensible definition, is one of mistaken identity, a foul being given which wasn't or a player scoring from an offside position. If the original decision had stood, no-one would have batted an eyelid. Yet, because of some incompetent illegitimate sitting in a room nowhere near the play, we were left with a mountain to climb.

That mountain became ever steeper because of the plain and simple bias of Martin Atkinson. The Premier League referee gave every single little thing that he could to the Premier League side. If he is meant to be one of the better referees in this country, then it proves exactly why no English referees were selected to go to the World Cup last summer. He, and they, are simply not up to the task of officiating fairly and properly.

I think any Premiership ref would have been similar in all honesty....players falling over at the slightest touch and doing several roll's is the norm to get a free kick.....they did as normal...the ref did as normal.....we were naive to it...what is a normal bit of contact in our daily practice resulted in free kicks for them.....we didnt fall over enough when we got the same and we didnt complain enough.
Prem players, prem ref, VAR all significant factors in the favour of Palace.
The players gave their all, showed resiliance and discipline to the defensive task and did us proud.

Thought they played the ref really well esp Zaha who has gone down massively in my opinion, Prem ref always seem to look after there own.

Great Town day out loved it, the players and fans were fantastic.

A big well done to all the fans who went, im proud of every one of you, unfortunate that I had to go to work. I watched it on the tv and even booed with you all when Townsend got the ball. I looked at Palace forum this morning and I just had to share this with you all, made me laugh,and proud at the same time.

      Noz  North Hampshire Today 9.57am

I think the reason Andros was trying his level best to score at every opportunity was the fact that 4 thousand people were calling him an "obscene hand gesturer" for 94 minutes, and he wanted to stick it to them.

I felt the ref gave them a lot but when I checked the BBC site this morning it was 11 fouls against Town and 10 against Palace

Quoted from buckstown

I felt the ref gave them a lot but when I checked the BBC site this morning it was 11 fouls against Town and 10 against Palace

That possibly proves your point.

Why didn't the VAR ref review Saha's slap in the face of Thomas?

Quoted from buckstown

I felt the ref gave them a lot but when I checked the BBC site this morning it was 11 fouls against Town and 10 against Palace

is that the same stats that say Palace only had 61% possession ??
If we had 39%  possession yesterday 38% of that must have been with McKeown  

Moss: I've just had a quick look at that challenge on Townsend.

Atkinson: Yes, I saw it. I was five yards away. Happy that it's a yellow.

Moss: Well I've slowed it down. He's quite high. Catches Townsend on the shin, just below the knee.

Atkinson: I know. I did see it. You suggesting it should be red? Would like to take another look at it.

Moss: No need. I've seen it and I'm saying it's a red.

Atkinson: Hmm. It was the first tackle of the game. The pitch was watered just before kick-off. It's this guy's biggest game of his career.

Moss: Follow the letter of the law and send him off.

What's done is done and we can't change it but surely to run a competition in a fair and legitimate way
the rules have to be the same for everyone. Most of all the rules should be applied in the same way for all
taking part, this is not the case with this year's FA cup  because some games are played on grounds with VAR
while others are not. Well done to the lads they did us proud and I for one am enjoying watching Town knowing there is a lot more to come . UTMM

Quoted from Mariner93er

Shout out to Jolley's tactics too, man marking all over the pitch. It's a tactic he used against Malmo and there's a really good video of him explaining it on youtube under coaches voice.

Good shout. I watched it before jolley was appointed and was convinced by him even more. Brilliant to watch it again in light of yesterday's performance. Thoroughly recommend it to anyone who's got 7 minutes spare. He must be so frustrated that a he didn't have the right players in defensive positions and b fox screwed his whole plan up. Wonder if he might use the same ideas when we are playing Lincoln, mk and fgr.
Apart from that do you think he learnt anything else from yesterday? The new Southampton boss opined that he could stomach a defeat if he learnt things from the defeat.
I don't know if there is much, we know that they've got great heart and committment, that embleton is a class act, thatThomas does a Stirling job on his own and that mckeown is a great shot stopper, but the fact that rhj won't ever play centre back, Woolford and rose won't ever be full backs again means that he can't have learnt much new.
Maybe the main gain will be pyscholgical especially with the young players. Hopefully it will give cardwell, Clifton and rhj the confidence to push on again, knowing that they've held their own against premiership players.
Any other new positives other than these?

I believe it's the first time he's used the tactic, which is an incredibly hard one to execute. If nothing else, it must give him confidence that his ideas are getting across and we can be tactically malleable.

Quoted from RichMariner

Moss: I've just had a quick look at that challenge on Townsend.

Atkinson: Yes, I saw it. I was five yards away. Happy that it's a yellow.

Moss: Well I've slowed it down. He's quite high. Catches Townsend on the shin, just below the knee.

Atkinson: I know. I did see it. You suggesting it should be red? Would like to take another look at it.

Moss: No need. I've seen it and I'm saying it's a red.

Atkinson: Hmm. It was the first tackle of the game. The pitch was watered just before kick-off. It's this guy's biggest game of his career.

Moss: Follow the letter of the law and send him off.

And that is exactly the issue the VAR can freeze and pause and zoom in and slow it down and all that until he has no other choice but to deem it as a red card offence and over rule the decision by the ref on the pitch - who now lets be honest is not really in charge if VAR is involved

A great away day overall - everything about GTFC was right , , , the players, , , the management and us the fans - so much to be proud of

If we can get through this month with some points on the board and not too far from the top 7 it could make for a very very interesting business end to the season

I enjoyed crossing the road from The Prince George and shaking hands with a load of the Aalst lads , , ,absolute top lads them

Met up with some fellow Mariners from Northampton on the train down and all top guys , , , look forward to seeing you all on an away day soon!

The palace fans seemed a genuine bunch as well all spoke well of us our team and our fans and our fish and chips!!

Proper old school footy stadium as well great to see it so packed and so noisy - my ears are still ringing now!

Love my town and my club - proud to be a Mariner

UTM
GTID

Quoted from Mariner Timsky

And that is exactly the issue the VAR can freeze and pause and zoom in and slow it down and all that until he has no other choice but to deem it as a red card offence and over rule the decision by the ref on the pitch - who now lets be honest is not really in charge if VAR is involved

And there's the other problem with what happened Saturday....VAR doesn't over rule the referees decision, it just informs him to have a rethink and ultimately the referees decision is still final depending on how he reviews the VAR advice...

I get that but he didnt even get to have a look at the incident again did he??

So yes he was over ruled because he was told his yellow should be a red - his opinion verses VAR - thats what it boils down to , opinions! Not who is right

Quoted from RichMariner

Moss: I've just had a quick look at that challenge on Townsend.

Atkinson: Yes, I saw it. I was five yards away. Happy that it's a yellow.

Moss: Well I've slowed it down. He's quite high. Catches Townsend on the shin, just below the knee.

Atkinson: I know. I did see it. You suggesting it should be red? Would like to take another look at it.

Moss: No need. I've seen it and I'm saying it's a red.

Atkinson: Hmm. It was the first tackle of the game. The pitch was watered just before kick-off. It's this guy's biggest game of his career.

Moss: Follow the letter of the law and send him off.

So the ref saw it and knew it was a high tackle but was happy to give a yellow. The VAR ref thinks it should be a red. The ref mentions he is allowing for conditions, first tackle of the game and the players experience. The VAR overrules the ref, who supposedly has the final decision , and tells him to follow the letter of the law and send him off. Surely this wasn't what VAR was brought in for. If that is how it's going to be then we might as well do away with the ref, have VAR in radio contact with the linesmen  and make all the decisions.

I missed it at the ground did he actually get shown a yellow?? all I remember is the ref running over to Fox a bit after the actual tackle and the ball had been knocked out of play and then flung him the red

Quoted from rancido

So the ref saw it and knew it was a high tackle but was happy to give a yellow. The VAR ref thinks it should be a red. The ref mentions he is allowing for conditions, first tackle of the game and the players experience. The VAR overrules the ref, who supposedly has the final decision , and tells him to follow the letter of the law and send him off. Surely this wasn't what VAR was brought in for. If that is how it's going to be then we might as well do away with the ref, have VAR in radio contact with the linesmen  and make all the decisions.

This is my beef with it all. People who say "it should have been a red so fair enough" are missing the point. This version of VAR is not what we were sold. It is supposed to be there for clear errors, for unseen off the ball incidents, for incidents that are just too tough for the naked eye to see (tight offsides or in/outside the box). It is not supposed to be there for another person's opinion to simply overrule the onfield ref. In my opinion it's a dangerous overreach of VAR and I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

I'm a massive cricket fan and I look at how they use their DRS (Decision Review System).

Yes, it causes a hold-up, but cricket isn't fast-paced in the first place, so there's no issue there. If anything, DRS adds to the drama.

But very early on they realised that it was taking the power away from the on-field umpire and they didn't want it to do that.

The LBW system is very interesting because when the decision is marginal on DRS, it goes with the umpire's original decision.

VAR was brought in to eradicate obvious errors. I don't think it can ever be relied upon to deliver the 'perfect' match where every decision was 100% correct because, let's be honest, no two challenges are the same.

There are so many nuances in each tackle, and so many variables (where it occurred on the pitch, at what time, the history between the two players in the challenge, the context of the scoreline, I could go on) that it becomes impossible for a cold, emotionless and heartless system to make judgments.

VAR should only make judgments on black and white issues. Did it cross the line? Was he offside? Was the foul in the box?

Deciding whether a challenge was a yellow or red card is much, much tougher to call, and at the very least you'd have expected Atkinson (in our case) to take another look himself.

Quoted from RichMariner

I'm a massive cricket fan and I look at how they use their DRS (Decision Review System).

Yes, it causes a hold-up, but cricket isn't fast-paced in the first place, so there's no issue there. If anything, DRS adds to the drama.

But very early on they realised that it was taking the power away from the on-field umpire and they didn't want it to do that.

The LBW system is very interesting because when the decision is marginal on DRS, it goes with the umpire's original decision.

VAR was brought in to eradicate obvious errors. I don't think it can ever be relied upon to deliver the 'perfect' match where every decision was 100% correct because, let's be honest, no two challenges are the same.

There are so many nuances in each tackle, and so many variables (where it occurred on the pitch, at what time, the history between the two players in the challenge, the context of the scoreline, I could go on) that it becomes impossible for a cold, emotionless and heartless system to make judgments.

VAR should only make judgments on black and white issues. Did it cross the line? Was he offside? Was the foul in the box?

Deciding whether a challenge was a yellow or red card is much, much tougher to call, and at the very least you'd have expected Atkinson (in our case) to take another look himself.

I was talking to an ex-pro cricketer about this and his thoughts are that decision reviews are OK when there's a definitive break in play such as cricket and American Football but much more difficult in rugby union and football. Even more so when one person's judgement of serious foul play differs from the other such as on Saturday when the Fox tackle was nothing like as aggressive as Kompany's two days earlier.

The Sunday Times had the headline “ Gallant Grimsby run out of luck”.

They reported that the late goal was harsh indeed on the League Two club and their 5,500 fans, who had deserved a replay.  You could only admire the Mariners’ fierce dedication to the defensive cause.

Their reporting on the sending off was not fully accurate:  “within 2 mins of the start Fox was dismissed.  The defender dived into a challenge that caught Townsend high on the shin and referee Martin Atkinson brandished a red after VAR review”.

(There is no credence given to Atkinson’s own assessment of the incident from close-up.)