Back Four...........

M Rose - Hall-Johnson - Hendrie - Fox

MJ indicated that there will be no center backs returning from injure before Saturday, and Fox may well be still too ill to play.

So what would you go for on Saturday, same as New Years Day or different? How would you change things?

eugh really  

RHJ at RB and bring Pollock in at CB. Mitch was not great at RB on Sat.

Get Matthew Bloomer in on an emergency loan.

Do you know what - its going to be a massive ask with our injuries and suspensions to get anything out of this game. I now know enough about this team though that they will give there all regardless.
So in return i am going to enjoy my day out with my fellow 5500 Mariners and sing as loudly as i can from the first minute to the last regardless of the result!!

RHJ was excellent at CB at Exeter.  Seems harsh to throw Pollock in for his first start, but if he can cope with a Prem team, League 2 will be a piece of cake  .  

Can't Harry Davis return? He's missed two matches through concussion. Isn't that the guideline?

Quoted from chaos33

Can't Harry Davis return? He's missed two matches through concussion. Isn't that the guideline?

Its not two matches but two weeks!

What about Seb? Paperwork should be sorted surely.

Well MJ said he wouldn't be ready for a game like the Exeter one so he certainly wont be ready for this one!!

Think Seb will need some reserve games if that's the case - am I right in saying he's had 2 months of no footy??

Seems strange to me that a player who is looking for a team and just about has something sorted out has not kept himself fit enough to play

Quoted from denni266

Seems strange to me that a player who is looking for a team and just about has something sorted out has not kept himself fit enough to play

Being fit and match fit are two entirely different things.

Thought Woolford did better at left back on Saturday than
Rose did at right back.

Both are capable of doing a job in an emergency so over
to you Jollyboy.

Quoted from Caveman

Thought Woolford did better at left back on Saturday than
Rose did at right back.

Both are capable of doing a job in an emergency so over
to you Jollyboy.

I thought Woolford struggled with the pace of their winger on Saturday which is a worry.

Ring will surely be in at left back now he’s eligible. Then the three fullbacks split across the other positions.

Have to say I’ll be amazed if we don’t sign at least one centre half on loan in time to play. Midday tomorrow int it?

Quoted from chipsandgravy

Its not two matches but two weeks!

Ah right. Pah.....

As Jolley said, there's no point in signing a centre back just for this game, ultimately it's a luxury game. If the right person was available then yes, but there's no point panic buying for the sake of this tie.

If people think we are a lost cause with out of position defenders in place for Saturday, then surely a full debut for young Pollock is one solution.

Yes there is a risk of him freezing but what an experience if he can settle in. A great learning process with over 5000 fans cheering him on.

Is the risk similar to putting in an older defender who is not match fit?

Who would want to be the manager this week?

Quoted from Caveman

Thought Woolford did better at left back on Saturday than
Rose did at right back.

Both are capable of doing a job in an emergency so over
to you Jollyboy.

I didn't think Rose played that well, he tried too many tricks in dangerous positions for me.

Woolford has no pace and spent most of the last 20 minutes of the game passing to Mansfield players.

Quoted from acko338

If people think we are a lost cause with out of position defenders in place for Saturday, then surely a full debut for young Pollock is one solution.

Yes there is a risk of him freezing but what an experience if he can settle in. A great learning process with over 5000 fans cheering him on.

Is the risk similar to putting in an older defender who is not match fit?

Who would want to be the manager this week?

Well, there’s the ingredients for a pun-tastic back page headline for sure. Exactly thirty years (minus one month) on from the a where thousands of inflatable haddock went down in Mariners and FA Cup folklore, it would be quite fitting for a ‘Pollock’ to steal the show on Saturday.

Pollock made numerous defensive headers at Exeter didn’t he?  He would not be too much of a risk - given that we are worst than “bare bones” at CB.

It really depends how close Collins and Famewo are to returning. I guess only Moore and Jolley know this. If there's a decent chance that one or both will be back for Macclesfield (with Davis to return after mandatory concussion break), then it isn't imperative we get someone in. However, I'd have thought that getting someone in on a month's loan would have covered us for Palace and potentially allowed us to ease Collins and Famewo back in to it, possibly with a couple of reserve games first. Still, wouldn't be surprised if we announced a short term loan signing tomorrow.

What about Whitmore? I know he got carded, but does that apply to FA cup as well as league games?

I think the thing is with Pollock is whether it's right for him to rush him into a big game like this. Pretty sure Jolley will be taking the longer term view. I suppose it could work the other way if the game is seen as a 'no pressure' game, not a 'must win' game. Between his old man and Jolley, I'd imagine whatever the decision, it's most likely the right one.

I suspect Connor Whickham will start up front for Palace, That could be a test for our first choice centre backs let alone makeshift ones.
Hope we all go and enjoy it, fully support the team and hace a greajtt day out whatever the result

I would keep the back 4 the same, and have Welsh in front of them

Wickham is a capable footballer and a big lad but he's never converted his abilities into the goals which were expected from him. Let's hope this continues tomorrow.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

I would keep the back 4 the same, and have Welsh in front of them

We'd be down to 10 men within 5 minutes if you put Welsh in there...
Hess does as a far better job, he's quicker and moves forward with the ball.... can't see Welsh getting a start in the team at any point while Hess is fit...

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

I would keep the back 4 the same, and have Welsh in front of them

Think that would be extremely unfair on Hess who has been our best player in that position this season. Far more mobile and better on the ball than Welsh.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I didn't think Rose played that well, he tried too many tricks in dangerous positions for me.

Woolford has no pace and spent most of the last 20 minutes of the game passing to Mansfield players.

Think Rose was guilty of this in first 20 minutes but after losing the ball on two or three occasions seemed to me to cut this out his game and overall I thought he did really well playing out of position.

Don’t think he was helped by the hobby git in seat, roughly N41 in Upper Findus, who constantly berated him whichever option he chose. If Rose controlled the ball and tried a short pass this guy wanted it booted long, if Rose sent it down the line he wanted him to pull it down and pass it short. He also constantly criticised HJ and Hendrie for clearing their lines or missing a header, took no account of their size and positional change. Fortunately he was mostly a lone voice as others supporters got behind the team but the type of fan who is a complete pain in the arris!!

The back four we started with on New Years Day had 3 players playing out of position, we ended with all four playing out of position.  You just can't do that and expect to get away with it.  

Pollock may be young and inexperienced but he is a central defender, his coaching is tailored around that position.  RHJ and Hendrie aren't coached to play those positions, neither is Mitch Rose as a full-back.  I thought the back four did really well in the circumstances against Mansfield but it was evident that they weren't naturals.

Would it be too soon for Pollock?  Maybe.  It could also be the absolute making of the lad.  Just like I doubt he got over-excited by making his debut, I don't think he will get too downbeat if he does end up getting the run around.  The best way to learn is from mistakes and in the case of a footballer a proper doing over.  If he's good enough for the bench, he's good enough to start in my opinion.  Otherwise we might as well just name 3 subs and between the 14 we cover all positions one way or another.

I can understand the calls to play Pollock - a natural central defender, did well at Exeter - but I can also understand that Jolley will want to protect him.

Jolley wouldn't want to look back and wonder if he ruined the lad's career by throwing him in at the deep end.

But this is where judgment comes in. Jolley and Woods will know far more about Pollock's mental toughness than we will.

From what I saw of the Exeter highlights, I wouldn't have a problem him starting tomorrow. In fact, I'd prefer him to start, limiting the number of players playing out of position. What's the absolute worst that could happen? The bloke he's marking scores a hat-trick.

Hat-tricks happen all the time in the league. We've all been saying that no one expects us to win tomorrow, so no harm will come from losing, or being given the run-around. Palace will get little credit for winning 5-0.

We've lost 5-0 there on a couple of occasions in the league.

I'd go with Hendrie at right back, Fox (if fit) or Woolford at left back (unless Ring is in contention) and then pair RHJ with Pollock. At least then we'd have two players playing in their natural roles.

Livvo was played at centre back when we were short of numbers - is there anyone in today's squad capable of doing such a job?

I did wonder if John Welsh could do a job at centre back, as an experienced defensive midfielder. Guessing it's not an option though as i imagine he'd have been chucked on by now!

Didn’t Dis drop in at centre half away at some non league side one afternoon? We don’t have that sort of player who knows the game well enough to just do that though.

Sebastian Ring played in centre back several times in Sweden if he is fit and able to play

I remember us playing Gary Jones at CB once. Think he got sent off

Quoted from mariner91

Think that would be extremely unfair on Hess who has been our best player in that position this season. Far more mobile and better on the ball than Welsh.

Was thinking more along

Rose  Hendrie  RHJ  Fox
               Welsh
Embleton Clifton Hess Pringle
                  Thomas

Quoted from RichMariner

I can understand the calls to play Pollock - a natural central defender, did well at Exeter - but I can also understand that Jolley will want to protect him.

Jolley wouldn't want to look back and wonder if he ruined the lad's career by throwing him in at the deep end.

But this is where judgment comes in. Jolley and Woods will know far more about Pollock's mental toughness than we will.

From what I saw of the Exeter highlights, I wouldn't have a problem him starting tomorrow. In fact, I'd prefer him to start, limiting the number of players playing out of position. What's the absolute worst that could happen? The bloke he's marking scores a hat-trick.

Hat-tricks happen all the time in the league. We've all been saying that no one expects us to win tomorrow, so no harm will come from losing, or being given the run-around. Palace will get little credit for winning 5-0.

We've lost 5-0 there on a couple of occasions in the league.

I'd go with Hendrie at right back, Fox (if fit) or Woolford at left back (unless Ring is in contention) and then pair RHJ with Pollock. At least then we'd have two players playing in their natural roles.

Livvo was played at centre back when we were short of numbers - is there anyone in today's squad capable of doing such a job?

Agree with the above bits in bold. Although a half-fit Ring at LB might be a better option than Woolford as a left back.

I don't get the cliche'd comments of "if he had a bad game it could ruin his career/development." If he has the ability and the required mindset to make it as a pro (and everything points to the fact that he has), he will be fine regardless of any outcome tomorrow evening.

Quoted from 139847

What about Whitmore? I know he got carded, but does that apply to FA cup as well as league games?

Red cards apply across all competitions. They only changed it so that yellows are specific to individual competitions I think. Means he'll be back for the Macc match, though.

Quoted from diehardmariner

The back four we started with on New Years Day had 3 players playing out of position, we ended with all four playing out of position.  You just can't do that and expect to get away with it.  

Pollock may be young and inexperienced but he is a central defender, his coaching is tailored around that position.  RHJ and Hendrie aren't coached to play those positions, neither is Mitch Rose as a full-back.  I thought the back four did really well in the circumstances against Mansfield but it was evident that they weren't naturals.

Would it be too soon for Pollock?  Maybe.  It could also be the absolute making of the lad.  Just like I doubt he got over-excited by making his debut, I don't think he will get too downbeat if he does end up getting the run around.  The best way to learn is from mistakes and in the case of a footballer a proper doing over.  If he's good enough for the bench, he's good enough to start in my opinion.  Otherwise we might as well just name 3 subs and between the 14 we cover all positions one way or another.

If one of Collins or Davies were fit to play alongside Pollock then yes, I would be tempted to start him. But expecting a 17 year old to play against a top 3 side or a Premier League team with no recognised centre back next to him and making his first 1st team start? That's asking way too much of the lad.

Seb Ring has had international clearance so is eligible to play - been given the number 3 shirt -  its whether he is match fit

Quoted from Hagrid

I remember us playing Gary Jones at CB once. Think he got sent off

I remember seeing Glen Downey playing at centre back once (but only once)  honest

That Downey game at Wrexham...

Think we started with Rob Jones and Simon Ramsden that day. Jones didn't come out for the second half so Gritton came on and Gary Jones dropped into defence. Then Ramsden got injured and Downey came on.

Then didn't Croft get injured at right back or something? And Bolland dropped back into that position.

I just seem to remember that, of our back four that day, only Tom Newey saw the game out!

Quoted from RichMariner

I just seem to remember that, of our back four that day, only Tom Newey saw the game out!

At centre back too! (Downey went to left back, I seem to recall)

Of course there was extra drama when Bolland was red carded, then un-red carded!

With regards to Pollock, Tottenham's Juan Foyth made his debut recently and gave away two pen's against Wolves.  It did not stop Pochettino putting him in the team for the whole of the next 4 games, he even scored in his second game.  So sometimes with a young player, you just have to drop them in and yes they will make mistakes, but hopefully the team around them will help them develop and mean those little mistakes don't matter.
I'd be very happy to see Pollock start tomorrow rather than midfielders being makeshifts.

I’d be suprised if pollock starts, but also in a bizarre sort of way, it might be, not easier but simpler, in a game like this, than starting in a league game where we’d be expecting our centrebacks to pass it out from the back more, start attacks or keep concentration when were on the attack. Whereas this game will provide alot more opportunities for bread and butter defending i’d imagine, albiet against very difficult opposition

Welsh has hardly played this season, I wouldn't play him in a game like this, given how rusty he would be.

Quoted from wigworld

Welsh has hardly played this season, I wouldn't play him in a game like this, given how rusty he would be.

On the other hand his quality and higher league experience could be invaluable against a good team like Palace.

It's so unfortunate having this current situation going into a good fa cup draw. It does make it incredibly hard to see us coming out with something. I think we need our best players in their right position, so on that basis I think we need Hendrie at right back. Then pair hall-johnson with pollock or ring at centre back.

Candles......