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Pub for Palace away

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Mariner Ronnie
December 30, 2018, 12:09pm

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What pub are town fans allowed in/off to before the game does anyone know? My first time here.


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HertsGTFC
December 30, 2018, 4:30pm

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Saw this on a fans forum web page....

“Unlike with many grounds, Selhurst manages to keep both home and away fans together, without causing an absolute riot. The Flora Sandles (Wetherspoons) and the Railway Telegraph are fairly-priced, cosy pubs by Thornton Heath railway station, while next to Norwood Junction there’s another Spoons – The William Stanley – which accommodates all fans on a match day. They’re all pretty close to the venue (walking) and offer good atmosphere!”.

Not sure how up to date this is though.


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Mariner Ronnie
December 30, 2018, 4:57pm

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Looks like the William Stanley for us then. UTM!


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Heisenberg
December 30, 2018, 5:16pm
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There’s not many pubs that’ll take 5,000 away fans!!
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HertsGTFC
December 30, 2018, 5:43pm

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Quoted from Heisenberg
There’s not many pubs that’ll take 5,000 away fans!!


Should someone call them and tell them we like the odd pint or two  


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lukeo
December 30, 2018, 8:31pm
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Whichever has sky sports and a pool table!
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KingstonMariner
December 31, 2018, 12:08am
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Quoted from lukeo
Whichever has sky sports and a pool table!


intercourse Sky Sports! (other sports broadcasters available to get copulated too)

Why do you think people are having to watch a game late on a Saturday and book overnight accommodation?


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HackneyHaddock
December 31, 2018, 12:21am
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If you want SkySports, stay in your hotel room.  If you want a good pub, then there are loads of good places around London Bridge, Borough Market, Bermondsey Street, Maltby Street Market (independent brewers, loads of food stalls).  I don't know much about pubs around Selhurst, but after nipping into London Bridge from Surrey, I'm meeting a Palace supporting mate from work and going to his WMC in the area.
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lukeo
December 31, 2018, 5:52am
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Quoted from HackneyHaddock
If you want SkySports, stay in your hotel room.  If you want a good pub, then there are loads of good places around London Bridge, Borough Market, Bermondsey Street, Maltby Street Market (independent brewers, loads of food stalls).  I don't know much about pubs around Selhurst, but after nipping into London Bridge from Surrey, I'm meeting a Palace supporting mate from work and going to his WMC in the area.


I haven't and will never pay for any sports channels, 100% not. Just looking for something pre match to entertain a 10 year old
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Gaffer58
December 31, 2018, 7:29am
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Lukeo,  don't be tight and buy him some Lego.
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dapperz fun pub
December 31, 2018, 8:01am
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Quoted from lukeo


I haven't and will never pay for any sports channels, 100% not. Just looking for something pre match to entertain a 10 year old


The atmosphere will entertain him mate
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Hagrid
December 31, 2018, 9:47am

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Let him sample the crowd mate
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lukeo
December 31, 2018, 9:50am
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Managed to take him to Lincoln at home (in the pontoon) he loved it so I'm confident the atmosphere will make him enjoy his day.. I'm just aiming to leave early so we get a whole day of football away from women  
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Alfie
December 31, 2018, 2:28pm
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The Sheaf or King George in London Bridge will be good
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Yossarian
December 31, 2018, 4:20pm
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Alfie is correct - around London Bridge you have the classic The George (17th century pub in courtyard) , Wheatshead, Market Porter, Southwark Tavern.

All a very good pubs.

I remember seeing a load of Villa fans in all of those pubs on the last sunday of last season getting right on it at 9am before a game at Millwall.
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Palace1
December 31, 2018, 4:43pm
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Quoted from Yossarian
Alfie is correct - around London Bridge you have the classic The George (17th century pub in courtyard) , Wheatshead, Market Porter, Southwark Tavern.

All a very good pubs.

I remember seeing a load of Villa fans in all of those pubs on the last sunday of last season getting right on it at 9am before a game at Millwall.


I'd add Bunch of Grapes to that list.
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moosey_club
December 31, 2018, 6:14pm
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Quoted from Palace1


I'd add Bunch of Grapes to that list.


We dont do wine mate....thats for you city slickers  


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Dan
December 31, 2018, 6:20pm

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Quoted from lukeo
Whichever has sky sports and a pool table!


It's about 15 minutes on the bus from the ground, but The Conquering Hero has both of these and is a decent boozer. It's a bit of a palace pub but it's sound, does great burgers, and has a big beer garden that includes a pig called Francis Bacon.


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Mariner Ronnie
January 1, 2019, 10:37am

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Just an update for you HERTS. The William Stanley is now been closed and rebranded and doesn’t allow in away fans, the Flora Sands is now a pure gym. The nearest spoons is the George, but the railway Telegraph might be the best bet but wether it allows in away fans I don’t know.


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immariner
January 1, 2019, 10:41am
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I believe The Railway Telegraph is the away designated pub, not sure where I read it though, sorry.
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Gaffer58
January 1, 2019, 11:53am
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Quoted from immariner
I believe The Railway Telegraph is the away designated pub, not sure where I read it though, sorry.


Someone better tell them to get some extra beer in ready.
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Palace1
January 1, 2019, 12:25pm
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Quoted from immariner
I believe The Railway Telegraph is the away designated pub, not sure where I read it though, sorry.


It’s not. They allow away fans in some games. They are due to make their decision on Wednesday. I’ll post on here what that decision is.
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Mariner Ronnie
January 1, 2019, 12:27pm

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Quoted from Palace1


It’s not. They allow away fans in some games. They are due to make their decision on Wednesday. I’ll post on here what that decision is.


Thanks mate 👍🏼👌🏼


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immariner
January 1, 2019, 12:35pm
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Quoted from Palace1


It’s not. They allow away fans in some games. They are due to make their decision on Wednesday. I’ll post on here what that decision is.


Ahh it was you that mentioned 'Railway Tavern' and 'away fans' in the 4168 to Palace thread. Thought I'd taken it from cpfc forum. Cheers for clarifying.
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Yossarian
January 1, 2019, 3:41pm
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One useful trick is to use Google Maps.

Type "pubs selhurst"

All the pubs are highlighted - if you move/zoom in click the "Search this Area" button that appears at the top of the screen,

Et voila!  C;est facile!


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Vance Warner
January 1, 2019, 4:00pm
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Could do with clarification on this. Hoping for a hassle free day but meeting mates from all over so want a few drinks near the ground. Do we have an SLO for things like this?
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moosey_club
January 1, 2019, 4:35pm
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Quoted from Vance Warner
Could do with clarification on this. Hoping for a hassle free day but meeting mates from all over so want a few drinks near the ground. Do we have an SLO for things like this?




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Palace1
January 1, 2019, 6:07pm
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Quoted from Vance Warner
Could do with clarification on this. Hoping for a hassle free day but meeting mates from all over so want a few drinks near the ground. Do we have an SLO for things like this?


Try The Prince George. 5 minute walk from the ground.
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lukeo
January 1, 2019, 6:15pm
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Quoted from moosey_club




Ditto this. We HAD an SLO for things like this..
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Mariner Timsky
January 1, 2019, 9:12pm

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I think with 5000+ Town fans it would be nice to have some official clarity from somewhere to say a pub / pubs have been allocated as town pubs which are close to the ground


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Kristine
January 2, 2019, 9:18am
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Speaking to the met police and the Palace DFO tomorrow, I will say they are struggling to find a pub that will accept us near the ground but it'll be sorted will just depend how close to the ground you want to be when you start drinking.


UTM
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Mariner Timsky
January 2, 2019, 9:45am

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The Wembley situation was ideal but fortunately it was decent weather and we all could outside for a sing song

A pub within what 10/15 minutes walking distance to the ground would be ideal

But with 5000+ town fans I'm sure we will be spread all over the capital gradually making our way closer to the ground nearer match time

I think in general we just want clarification that a designated pub is available and a meeting place for many of us


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lukeo
January 2, 2019, 9:51am
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Quoted from Kristine
Speaking to the met police and the Palace DFO tomorrow, I will say they are struggling to find a pub that will accept us near the ground but it'll be sorted will just depend how close to the ground you want to be when you start drinking.


How is it you still work your bottom off and give the fans more support than who should be helping us In these situations? Obviously Palace being a prem club they're not arsed about a few pint sales. Exeter opened up an extra marquee when they had a big away following travel to them... Surely being a prem club they should have these kind of facilities inside the ground?
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Mariner Timsky
January 2, 2019, 9:57am

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I've seen some YouTube footage of fans in the concourse behind the away stand at Palace and it looks quite out dated and just like a lot we've been to in LG2

Anyone else wish it was Saturday already?!?!??!

Cant wait for the buzz of hearing and seeing Town fans singing and drinking around London


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Cloudy
January 2, 2019, 9:58am
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Quoted from Kristine
Speaking to the met police and the Palace DFO tomorrow, I will say they are struggling to find a pub that will accept us near the ground but it'll be sorted will just depend how close to the ground you want to be when you start drinking.


Is that in some official capacity Kristine or just been a helpful 'good-egg'?
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immariner
January 2, 2019, 10:42am
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https://www.holmesdale.net/page.php?id=106&tid=173604

Sounds like we shouldn't bother trying to find a decent pub near the ground. Luckily it's a pretty short hop from Victoria/London Bridge/Clapham.
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Kristine
January 2, 2019, 11:29am
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Quoted from lukeo


How is it you still work your bottom off and give the fans more support than who should be helping us In these situations? Obviously Palace being a prem club they're not arsed about a few pint sales. Exeter opened up an extra marquee when they had a big away following travel to them... Surely being a prem club they should have these kind of facilities inside the ground?


Adie works incredibly hard at the club in a number of different roles - they do serve alocohol but some prefer to drink elsewhere 1st.  



UTM
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Kristine
January 2, 2019, 11:31am
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Quoted from Cloudy


Is that in some official capacity Kristine or just been a helpful 'good-egg'?


I was included in an email thread yesterday from the Met with an offer to have a chat - felt it was either take them up on it or they'd be nothing else.  Doesn't really answer your question but I wasn't included in the discussion as an SLO


UTM
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codcheeky
January 2, 2019, 12:42pm
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Quoted from Kristine


I was included in an email thread yesterday from the Met with an offer to have a chat - felt it was either take them up on it or they'd be nothing else.  Doesn't really answer your question but I wasn't included in the discussion as an SLO


Your treatment by the club has been shameful   thank you for your continued efforts, the club  is more than foolish to let someone of you class and dignity leave a post in which you  showed so much value.
Some at the club must be hanging their heads in shame
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Posh Harry
January 2, 2019, 1:22pm
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Quoted from Palace1


Try The Prince George. 5 minute walk from the ground.


Got a mate who is a palace fan and he has also said that The George (which I assume is the same pub) at Thornton Heath is the away fans pub.
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Mariner Timsky
January 2, 2019, 1:37pm

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The George sounds a good shout , , , lets hope they know we are coming!!


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Mariner Timsky
January 2, 2019, 1:42pm

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I see the Railway Telegraph is right next to Thornton Heath station is that a friendly away pub?!


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Stadium
January 2, 2019, 2:56pm
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Quoted from Mariner Timsky
I see the Railway Telegraph is right next to Thornton Heath station is that a friendly away pub?!


You seem to be obsessing about been allocated an "away" pub.
Check the post earlier about the above.




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Palace1
January 2, 2019, 3:11pm
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Quoted from Posh Harry


Got a mate who is a palace fan and he has also said that The George (which I assume is the same pub) at Thornton Heath is the away fans pub.


It’s in Thornton Heath. 5 minute walk from station.
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Mariner Timsky
January 2, 2019, 3:12pm

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Not obsessing as such just joining the discussion on this here forum!


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KingstonMariner
January 2, 2019, 3:45pm
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Quoted from Stadium


You seem to be obsessing about been allocated an "away" pub.
Check the post earlier about the above.



Why don't you just give us a list of topics we can and can't discuss. That'll save you time pointing out our errors.


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Palace1
January 2, 2019, 3:55pm
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Telegraph open for away fans.
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Stadium
January 2, 2019, 3:56pm
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Why don't you just give us a list of topics we can and can't discuss. That'll save you time pointing out our errors.


What a wonderful idea.
But to be honest it's an internet forum-people can post any opinions they like.



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Posh Harry
January 2, 2019, 6:13pm
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Quoted from Palace1
Telegraph open for away fans.


Thanks for this, it is good of you to follow it up to let us know.

Excuse me if I won’t wish you luck on Saturday. Let’s hope football is the winner (and it’s the cup so of course I mean the lower league underdog 🙂)

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Poojah
January 2, 2019, 9:06pm
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I've been giving this some thought as although I don't know the Selhurst Park area very well, I've spent quite a bit of time recently around some of the stops en route for anyone tubing / training it from King's Cross.

By all accounts, the options around the ground seem limited and the two pubs that apparently are away friendly look like they'd struggle to accommodate nearly 6,000 thirsty Town fans. Genuinely, I think the best bet for fans coming by train is to stop off on the way in central London.

As has been mentioned, there are some great spots around London Bridge where you'll need to catch the train to Thornton Heath. There's the Barrowboy & Banker (https://bit.ly/2LKO0zS), The George (https://bit.ly/2F1y0cl) and Katzenjammers (https://bit.ly/2LQICvm) - a fantastic, easy to miss little German pub and genuinely one of my favourite spots in the country - the beer is out of this world! Well worth stopping off for a swift one if you get chance, though I'm not going to lie - this is a fashionable part of central London and you won't be getting much change back out of £6 a pint.

With that in mind, given this is already an expensive day / weekend away for everyone at the most skintening time of year, one thought I had was the Crosse Keys (https://bit.ly/2BTsQuY). This is a massive 'spoons pub about a 3-4 minute walk from Bank tube station (the last stop before you get to London Bridge). Here you'll pay between £3.00 - £4.50 depending on what you're drinking so pretty reasonable for this part of the world, plus it's a big ol' place should an army of Mariners descend upon it.

There's also the Counting House, a grand looking Fuller's pub a few doors down if you fancy a change of scenery (https://bit.ly/2F8faQb). Still fairly reasonably priced from memory.

Just a few thoughts anyway - would be good to get somewhere collectively agreed and locked down. Some of my best experiences as a Town fan have been in the pubs before big away games / and Wembley finals. Holed up in some random, unassuming pub hundreds of miles from home with a thousand or so of your bretheren, absolutely taking the roof off the place - magic!


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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KingstonMariner
January 2, 2019, 9:18pm
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Quoted from Palace1
Telegraph open for away fans.


Cheers for that. Really appreciate you coming back with info.


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KingstonMariner
January 2, 2019, 9:19pm
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Quoted from Stadium


What a wonderful idea.
But to be honest it's an internet forum-people can post any opinions they like.


Shakes head.


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Stadium
January 2, 2019, 9:56pm
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Quoted from Palace1
Telegraph open for away fans.


Great information,much appreciated.
I hope the official channels will publicise this.
And I think you need to rest players after your result tonight......




“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
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Yossarian
January 3, 2019, 10:24am
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Quoted from Poojah


With that in mind, given this is already an expensive day / weekend away for everyone at the most skintening time of year, one thought I had was the Crosse Keys (https://bit.ly/2BTsQuY). This is a massive 'spoons pub about a 3-4 minute walk from Bank tube station (the last stop before you get to London Bridge). Here you'll pay between £3.00 - £4.50 depending on what you're drinking so pretty reasonable for this part of the world, plus it's a big ol' place should an army of Mariners descend upon it.

There's also the Counting House, a grand looking Fuller's pub a few doors down if you fancy a change of scenery (https://bit.ly/2F8faQb). Still fairly reasonably priced from memory.



I work around there and it is pretty deserted at weekends - I think you'll be the only people in those pubs on a saturday that is for sure.

The reality is that cheap beer and London (especially non-Spoons pubs) are very rare.

Good call on KatzenJammers - I'm always terrified of their ginormous glasses of booze (I'm more of a poncy wine drinker) so a Litre glass looks pretty hardcore!
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ScrumpyCPFC
January 3, 2019, 2:21pm

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Palace fan in peace! Please be gentle.

Apologies if already mentioned, but there are a few options in Croydon town centre also (which is a short train ride away from Norwood Junction from East Croydon station) including “Box Park” right next to the station. This has various food/beer options. As others have mentioned there isn’t a great selection of pubs for away fans near the ground unfortunately.  


Palace fan in peace!
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KingstonMariner
January 3, 2019, 3:41pm
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Quoted from ScrumpyCPFC
Palace fan in peace! Please be gentle.

Apologies if already mentioned, but there are a few options in Croydon town centre also (which is a short train ride away from Norwood Junction from East Croydon station) including “Box Park” right next to the station. This has various food/beer options. As others have mentioned there isn’t a great selection of pubs for away fans near the ground unfortunately.  


Cheers Scrumpy.

Assume you''re West Country based with your user name.  


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Kristine
January 3, 2019, 3:53pm
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Most pubs are already mentioned in the thread but as I said I would:

The Railway at Tuleshill station is welcoming away fans - direct train from London Bridge and to stations nearest Selhurst Park

As already mentioned The Railway at Thornton Heath welcome over 25's, children are ok with adults.  Strict ID if you're lucky enough to look under 25.

Prince George again already mentioned will take away fans - over 21's, will ID and will check match tickets

No restrictions around London Bridge and Victoria


UTM
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Mariner Timsky
January 3, 2019, 3:58pm

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Many thanks for all the work in sorting this and giving us all the info

The Prince George looks nice and easy and a 10 minute stroll to the ground , , , , happy days , , , , is it Saturday yet???


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Dan
January 3, 2019, 4:03pm

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Quoted from Kristine
Most pubs are already mentioned in the thread but as I said I would:

The Railway at Tuleshill station is welcoming away fans - direct train from London Bridge and to stations nearest Selhurst Park

As already mentioned The Railway at Thornton Heath welcome over 25's, children are ok with adults.  Strict ID if you're lucky enough to look under 25.

Prince George again already mentioned will take away fans - over 21's, will ID and will check match tickets

No restrictions around London Bridge and Victoria


The Railway at Tulse Hill is a decent boozer, but not really anywhere near the ground. You'd have to get off the train specifically to go there, then get back on, and there's nothing else nearby except traffic.


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Mariner Timsky
January 3, 2019, 4:07pm

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Is the Clifton Arms a home pub only??

Just spotted this one on the map


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Palace1
January 3, 2019, 4:09pm
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Quoted from Mariner Timsky
Is the Clifton Arms a home pub only??

Just spotted this one on the map


Home fans only.
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Mariner Timsky
January 3, 2019, 4:11pm

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Thank you Palace1.

I hope you and Palace 2 + 3 enjoy the game


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Civvy at last
January 3, 2019, 4:20pm

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Quoted from Palace1


Home fans only.


How ironic if you end up going there if he’s just knocked you out of the cup 😄🍺⚽️🏆

Harry Clifton. He’s one of our own


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
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That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

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Les Brechin
January 3, 2019, 4:49pm

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Quoted from Civvy at last


How ironic if you end up going there if he’s just knocked you out of the cup 😄🍺⚽️🏆

Harry Clifton. He’s one of our own


Especially if he scores with his arm (a la Wes)  


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Alfie
January 4, 2019, 3:05pm
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So... London Bridge then, yeah?
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dapperz fun pub
January 4, 2019, 3:46pm
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I’d say drink around London Bridge area plenty of boozers and easy to jump on the overground
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sam gy
January 4, 2019, 3:52pm
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What pub are people heading to in London Bridge?


[img]https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12039761_10156639571185103_2884197968019429473_n.jpg?oh=184cac2706832a1b1dd4d6a0420a6f87&oe=574C5F4F[/img]
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Mariner Timsky
January 4, 2019, 3:57pm

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Beat me to it Sam!

So to confirm its the Railway Telegraph and the Prince George which are close to the ground


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Stadium
January 4, 2019, 4:22pm
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Quoted from dapperz fun pub
I’d say drink around London Bridge area plenty of boozers and easy to jump on the overground


This.
Dean Swift if your looking for quality.
Draft House decent too.



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Civvy at last
January 4, 2019, 4:24pm

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I’ve just been sent an alleged statement from Palace saying Town won’t be allowed in local pubs but Fanzone (such we are) opens at 3:30. Strongly suspect a ‘spoof’ and certainly hoping so.

Any ‘Genuine info ‘appreciated.


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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Stadium
January 4, 2019, 4:33pm
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Quoted from Civvy at last
I’ve just been sent an alleged statement from Palace saying Town won’t be allowed in local pubs but Fanzone (such we are) opens at 3:30. Strongly suspect a ‘spoof’ and certainly hoping so.

Any ‘Genuine info ‘appreciated.


Fanzone only holds 500 & frankly sounds horrendous-avoid I think.
London Bridge is the best option as above.

States here that away fans wont be allowed in local pubs:

https://www.grimsby-townfc.co......y-town-on-05-jan-19/

However Palace1 stated that the Telegraph is open to away fans-maybe not classed as "local"?



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Palace1
January 4, 2019, 5:56pm
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Avoid the fanzone.

Telegraph is 100% open to away fans.
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Palace1
January 4, 2019, 5:57pm
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Quoted from Mariner Timsky
Beat me to it Sam!

So to confirm its the Railway Telegraph and the Prince George which are close to the ground


Yes
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vinno69
January 4, 2019, 10:08pm
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Sampling the delights of the railway telegraph and the Indian across the road, tajmahal. Would recommend-cleethorpes prices!! Wall to wall sports screens in here. Just asked at bar, town fans welcome before the game but strictly over 25s only and not allowed after game.
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KingstonMariner
January 5, 2019, 12:05am
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Quoted from vinno69
Sampling the delights of the railway telegraph and the Indian across the road, tajmahal. Would recommend-cleethorpes prices!! Wall to wall sports screens in here. Just asked at bar, town fans welcome before the game but strictly over 25s only and not allowed after game.


My son will have to wait outside. Be like the old days down Freemo. Except the bains left outside then wouldn't have been 6 foot 3 twenty year olds  


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HertsGTFC
January 5, 2019, 12:15am

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Quoted from Palace1
Avoid the fanzone.

Telegraph is 100% open to away fans.


Does that include anyone under 25 mate?


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January 5, 2019, 6:08am
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We're going to stop at Frankie and Bennies on route so aiming to be in the telegraph for around 3pm providing the tweet they sent out was accurate about children being allowed in. I can only assume these messages are to stop any 'youth' going into any pubs. Sensible dare I say.
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codcheeky
January 5, 2019, 9:20am
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Quoted from lukeo
We're going to stop at Frankie and Bennies on route so aiming to be in the telegraph for around 3pm providing the tweet they sent out was accurate about children being allowed in. I can only assume these messages are to stop any 'youth' going into any pubs. Sensible dare I say.


It's not always the youths that cause trouble
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lukeo
January 5, 2019, 10:11am
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I know that but the authorities just assume with their statistics
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toontown
January 5, 2019, 11:11am
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Can you get to Thornton heath from London bridge? If not then its Norwood's junction isn't it and that doesn't seem to have any away pubs?
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Stadium
January 5, 2019, 11:21am
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Quoted from toontown
Can you get to Thornton heath from London bridge? If not then its Norwood's junction isn't it and that doesn't seem to have any away pubs?


You can get there direct via southern.


http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/plan/LBG/TTH/050119/1400/dep



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toontown
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Cheers stadium
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toontown
January 5, 2019, 3:10pm
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In London bridge area now but not seen many town!?
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toontown
January 5, 2019, 3:11pm
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In London bridge area now but not seen many town, am I in the wrong place!?
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Civvy at last
January 5, 2019, 3:18pm

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Quoted from toontown
In London bridge area now but not seen many town, am I in the wrong place!?


Yes mate.
Town all over. Try the old kings head.


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
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The_Laughing_Mariner
January 5, 2019, 4:02pm
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In the Prince George
Rammed with town


<'(((((<

When I was a little boy
I asked my daddy what would i be
would I be United, would i be Leeds
Here's what he said to me

Oh Grimsby Grimsby
Whatever will be will be
You'll follow then faithfully
Oh Grimsby Grimsby


Tell me Mam me Mam
I dont want no tea no tea
I'm watching the Grimsby
Tell me Mam me mam
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The_Laughing_Mariner
January 5, 2019, 4:03pm
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In the Prince George
Rammed with town


<'(((((<

When I was a little boy
I asked my daddy what would i be
would I be United, would i be Leeds
Here's what he said to me

Oh Grimsby Grimsby
Whatever will be will be
You'll follow then faithfully
Oh Grimsby Grimsby


Tell me Mam me Mam
I dont want no tea no tea
I'm watching the Grimsby
Tell me Mam me mam
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