Macca , how long before the inevitable happens?

Quoted from Maringer

Difficult to compare, but the likes of Messi, Ronaldo and even Maradona played in a different era. How would Pele have done if he'd been in his prime in the modern day with defenders not allowed to kick you out of the game, better pitches, better fitness coaching and balls which weren't a leathery lump when wet?

Pele scored a hell of a lot more high level goals than either Messi or Ronaldo have or ever will and is Brazil's top scorer by a country mile. He scored 58 league goals (a record in Brazilian football) in one season when he was 17 or 18 years old and was top scorer in Brazilian football for 9 consecutive seasons. Obviously, it helped that he was playing for a dominant Santos team (who also spanked Eusebio's Benfica when they were European Champions) as well as a talented Brazilian team, but then Messi and Ronaldo haven't exactly played for rubbish teams, either.

Because little footage exists these days, it's difficult to judge but I think it is a pretty bold statement to claim Pele wasn't a match for Messi and Ronaldo.

I don't think its a case of the standard of the team he played FOR rather the standard of the teams he played AGAINST. Messi and Ronaldo face far stronger opponents than Pele ever did

Ronaldo is closing in on 700 goals all at the top or international level and he's showing no signs of slowing down. I fully expect him to hit the 1000 goal mark in competitive matches. Pele and Romario were counting youth games, friendlies and all sorts in their totals.

Quoted from Ipswin

I don't think its a case of the standard of the team he played FOR rather the standard of the teams he played AGAINST. Messi and Ronaldo face far stronger opponents than Pele ever did

He scored 5 goals in the two Intercontinental Cup games against Eusebio's Benfica who were European Champions at the time. Doubt that was by chance. Won a few World Cups also so safe to say he was probably pretty good. You only need to read some of the quotes from some of the greats of his era who he played against to see what they thought of him.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

Ronaldo is closing in on 700 goals all at the top or international level and he's showing no signs of slowing down. I fully expect him to hit the 1000 goal mark in competitive matches. Pele and Romario were counting youth games, friendlies and all sorts in their totals.

Pele scored around 750 senior goals (including the NASL and internationals). Supposedly not far of 1,300 goals including friendlies and pre-season and the like. The big difference is that there was no 'Champions League' in which goals could be scored - the Libertadores was just a knock-out competition. Pele played 14 games in the Libertadores, Ronaldo has played more than ten times as many in the Champions League.

I don't doubt that Ronaldo will overtake the goal total eventually but he's not there yet and he's getting to the age where injuries are more of a concern.

I'm just amazed that people are writing Pele off in such a blase manner. The game is different these days for certain, but the modern day players don't have to deal with the brutal fouls that footballers did back in the day and didn't have the medical advice about nutrition and treatments for injuries that now exist. Trying to say that somebody scoring an unprecedented amount of goals back then is a different case to a player scoring an unprecedented amount of goals in the modern era is an imbalanced view, in my opinion.

Quoted from Ipswin

I don't think its a case of the standard of the team he played FOR rather the standard of the teams he played AGAINST. Messi and Ronaldo face far stronger opponents than Pele ever did

Agree with this.

I think overall standards are higher and the "average player" is better these days. I wasn't around in the 60's and 70's so must stress it's an opinion based on what I've been able to watch.

But even the weaker teams these days are physically fitter, stronger and are often well-drilled in defensive organisation despite their inferior talent, so can be hard to break down.

You watch some clips of the likes of George Best dribbling past players and it looks like the guys they're dribbling round are overweight/slow/hungover Sunday League players*.

I don't think you could get one star player carrying an average team to League Championships and World Cups like Maradona did anymore.


* some slim, fit and sober lads play Sunday League too.

Quoted from Tommy

Agree with this.

I think overall standards are higher and the "average player" is better these days. I wasn't around in the 60's and 70's so must stress it's an opinion based on what I've been able to watch.

But even the weaker teams these days are physically fitter, stronger and are often well-drilled in defensive organisation despite their inferior talent, so can be hard to break down.

You watch some clips of the likes of George Best dribbling past players and it looks like the guys they're dribbling round are overweight/slow/hungover Sunday League players*.

I don't think you could get one star player carrying an average team to League Championships and World Cups like Maradona did anymore.


* some slim, fit and sober lads play Sunday League too.

What is your view of the impact of the difference in the way in which games are officiated? The modern footballer doesn't have to deal with the outright physical intimidation which they did back in the day. Pele (and Maradona to a lesser degree) were certainly kicked around and off the park many a time, something which the modern day superstars simply don't encounter. With everything taken into account, I think that most superstars of the past would almost certainly be superstars of the present if playing in the modern era - though probably fitter and more athletic thanks to modern training techniques, of course.

Regarding  the comparison  of players old and recent,

You can not fairly say one is better than the other,

Todays players are much bigger stronger and fitter ,

What you can say is that Pele was the best of his age much better than that cheating coke snorting ba@tard Maradona,

BUT

That's only my view.

Maringer makes a very fair point. They don't get lumps kicked out of them like they used to. Or rickets or whatever it was that gave wingers like Garrincha bandy legs.

There generally is less time on the ball now, but just as the cloggers are fitter and faster, so will bethe best players.

Plus Pele and George Best were by far the more likeable top players than any that claimed the crown since.  

In my fifty plus years of watching football nobody has been as good as George Best. Greedy illegitimate, yes but even in a very poor national team he shone. I never liked Manure but he was magical on the ball managers today would never like his selfish play but at his height he had everything.

That goal where he rode a tackle? that tried to cut him in half yet still scored still lives with me as do all the times he beat not one but two, three and even four players and then cooly rounded the keeper and scored.

The Belfast kid was a one-off able to body swerve any defender of that era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWA-h_-5g