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 Maringer |
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Barley Wine Drinker  Posts: 11,199
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Its only the remainers who want another vote , your argument can be said for any general election.
Don't be daft. There's a general election every 5 years (or less, as we've seen). We can't do the hokey-cokey with EU membership. Tell me, Pete, are you happy that the 2 million or so voters who have come of age since 2016 don't get any say about their future as EU citizens? They were born as EU citizens with the associated benefits and are having this stripped from them without any say in the matter. Shouldn't they get a say in the matter when a deal is finally negotiated and on the table? It's not about 'winning' or 'losing', it's about getting a decision which reflects the will of the current electorate. If the vote is still to leave (which is a possibility), then at least we would now know what we're voting for and the people who are making the decision are those who will have to live with the effects of the choice. Your man, Rees-Mogg once said a confirmatory referendum was a good idea. Perhaps the only sensible thing he's ever said. Let's make him right about somethig for a change.  |
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| Limerick Mariner |
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Whiskey Drinker  Posts: 3,347
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Don't be daft. There's a general election every 5 years (or less, as we've seen). We can't do the hokey-cokey with EU membership. Tell me, Pete, are you happy that the 2 million or so voters who have come of age since 2016 don't get any say about their future as EU citizens? They were born as EU citizens with the associated benefits and are having this stripped from them without any say in the matter. Shouldn't they get a say in the matter when a deal is finally negotiated and on the table? It's not about 'winning' or 'losing', it's about getting a decision which reflects the will of the current electorate. If the vote is still to leave (which is a possibility), then at least we would now know what we're voting for and the people who are making the decision are those who will have to live with the effects of the choice. Your man, Rees-Mogg once said a confirmatory referendum was a good idea. Perhaps the only sensible thing he's ever said. Let's make him right about somethig for a change.
There is even more need for a confirmatory referendum now. The current Conservative and Unionist
Party deal draws a border down the Irish Sea - this will accelerate a united Ireland (which I think is an inevitable end but, for the sake of the peace process, needs to happen organically in a fully democratic way). Hastening the break up of the Union wasn't debated pre-referendum and wasn't on the radar of the vast majority of the English electorate. The vast majority probably don't care and wouldn't have changed their vote, but they should have been told - the wet-dream Brexit of the Leave campaign is fundamentally at odds with the Good Friday Agreement. The GFA is a Treaty, a contract, the Referendum is advisory in law, doesn't matter what Cameron said, he lied. |
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| grimsby pete |
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if we have another referendum and the result is for remain I will except the result unlike a lot of remainers.
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| Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
68 Years following the Town
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| Limerick Mariner |
| October 21, 2019, 11:38pm |
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Whiskey Drinker Posts: 3,347
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if we have another referendum and the result is for remain I will except the result unlike a lot of remainers.
I'd suggest you would find that more remainers would have accepted a brexit that could have been achieved within a year of the vote than the leavers that would have accepted it...the EEA plus Customs Union brexit. Arguments that it is not brexit are factually incorrect - it is leaving the EU. It would have got through Parliament and a majority of the electorate would have accepted it. The reason it wasn't put forward was solely because it wouldn't be a Tory brexit. If Cameron or May had put it forward and whipped it maybe 50% of Tory MPs would have backed it. A majority of Labour MPs would have backed it, and the SNP would have backed it. The EU would have agreed to a temporary brake on freedom of movement if pressed on it to get it through (the only reason Leave won IMHO). Brexit failure to date is nothing to do with Parliamentary blocking, it is down to 3 and a half years Tory party red lines to satisfy 60 or so fanatical MPs and the 100k old farts who make up Tory party membership. They've now conveniently rubbed out one red line and claimed Boris is hero, when all he's done is the dirty on the DUP. If Boris plan goes through what will he say if the UVF kick off, then the new IRA retaliate and the province is in flames again - lie and blame someone else like he always does... |
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| grimsby pete |
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Exile Posts: 55,680
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Don't be daft. There's a general election every 5 years (or less, as we've seen). We can't do the hokey-cokey with EU membership. You are the daft one if you think another referendum would satisfy all the population and if remain win the leavers will be demanding another referendum a bit like the Scots who will not accept a result unless it goes their way.
Tell me, Pete, are you happy that the 2 million or so voters who have come of age since 2016 don't get any say about their future as EU citizens? They were born as EU citizens with the associated benefits and are having this stripped from them without any say in the matter. Shouldn't they get a say in the matter when a deal is finally negotiated and on the table?
Where do you stop ? we had a one off referendum and got a result but maybe we should have one every year until we vote remain and then that's final.
It's not about 'winning' or 'losing', it's about getting a decision which reflects the will of the current electorate.
What happens if the vote is even closer this time but still votes to leave do we have another vote in 2 years ?
If not that would be unfair according to your reckoning .
Your man, Rees-Mogg My man ? why do you say that ? I have voted Labour more times than Consevatives
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| Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
68 Years following the Town
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| codcheeky |
| October 22, 2019, 10:35am |
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Cocktail Drinker  Posts: 1,955
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That’s what May thought, as to anyone being less trustworthy than Bozo that is a Joke, the man has been sacked twice for lying and even his own family don’t trust him
3 years ago Johnson was pro EU but calculated supporting Brexit would be better for him personally, Corbyn has always been more against the EU than Johnson, and labelling all objecting to this form of Brexit that will see the break up of the UK re-moaners or people anti democratic because they would like a democratic vote is crazy. I voted leave and would welcome a vote on the type of exit, there is absolutely no doubt Brexit would have been done and dusted if May hadn’t pretended her election had never happened and realised a deal agreed by
Parliament rather than a minority Government was always going to be hard work to get through
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| grimsby pete |
| October 22, 2019, 12:27pm |
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If all the remainers bloody stopped whinging and honoured a second referendum I for one think we should have another one.
BUT
They wont they will still moan about not being in the EU anymore.
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| Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
68 Years following the Town
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| Maringer |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 11,199
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What else does your crystal ball say, Pete?
If a confirmatory referendum did take place and the Electoral Commission properly policed the expenditure of the campaigns this time around (no untraceable money funnelled in through Northern Ireland this time, thanks) then nobody could complain about the outcome. Some might bemoan it, but it should be accepted.
A less supine BBC willing to call out dishonesty in claims and outright lies made by politicians (of either side, naturally), would also be helpful in the event of a confirmatory referendum. The papers would be printing enough lies as it stands and, no doubt, facebook would be awash with them so it would be useful if the national broadcaster did its job properly.
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| Limerick Mariner |
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Whiskey Drinker Posts: 3,347
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What else does your crystal ball say, Pete?
If a confirmatory referendum did take place and the Electoral Commission properly policed the expenditure of the campaigns this time around (no untraceable money funnelled in through Northern Ireland this time, thanks) then nobody could complain about the outcome. Some might bemoan it, but it should be accepted.
A less supine BBC willing to call out dishonesty in claims and outright lies made by politicians (of either side, naturally), would also be helpful in the event of a confirmatory referendum. The papers would be printing enough lies as it stands and, no doubt, facebook would be awash with them so it would be useful if the national broadcaster did its job properly.
And, importantly, mobilise the youth vote... |
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| FishOutOfWater |
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Barley Wine Drinker Posts: 12,832
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What else does your crystal ball say, Pete?
If a confirmatory referendum did take place and the Electoral Commission properly policed the expenditure of the campaigns this time around (no untraceable money funnelled in through Northern Ireland this time, thanks) then nobody could complain about the outcome. Some might bemoan it, but it should be accepted.
A less supine BBC willing to call out dishonesty in claims and outright lies made by politicians (of either side, naturally), would also be helpful in the event of a confirmatory referendum. The papers would be printing enough lies as it stands and, no doubt, facebook would be awash with them so it would be useful if the national broadcaster did its job properly.
I think you'll find they're more comfortable sugar-coating and white-washing anything to do with the royal family  |
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