Brexit

[quote=2]

Tories are a very short price to be the biggest party. There's definitely going to be more tactical alliances and voting on all sides so it's very hard to call. Tories get very few votes from under 40's. Younger voters are key, no excuse not to vote this time![/quote]

Yes, but the pied piper, aka Corbyn, won't be able to spin the line of getting rid of student tuition fees this time! Whilst he will still collect a large proportion of the younger vote, it's the older working class leave voter's that will desert him this time, for betraying the referendum result. Apathy will play a big part, and I think they will struggle to galvanise their vote amongst their core support. Labour's only hope of winning is by getting rid of him.

What are people's thoughts on Stephen Kinnock as the next labour leader, saw his speech earlier and he came across miles better than Corbyn has ever done.

Quoted from Grimbiggs

Yes, but the pied piper, aka Corbyn, won't be able to spin the line of getting rid of student tuition fees this time! Whilst he will still collect a large proportion of the younger vote, it's the older working class leave voter's that will desert him this time, for betraying the referendum result. Apathy will play a big part, and I think they will struggle to galvanise their vote amongst their core support. Labour's only hope of winning is by getting rid of him.

Of course they can get rid of student tuition fees. Many countries don't have them (including a number of our European neighbours) - heck, 99% of the MPs in parliament who went to university didn't pay any. I certainly didn't.

I think Labour have little chance of winning a majority in an election - the electoral calculus is badly against them due to the impoverised northern towns where many of the electorate bizarrely think Brexit would be a good thing for their areas. This explains the sitting on the fence we've seen. They were waiting for the Tories to implode (as we're now seeing), but it has been strung out too long for them. May was bloody useless in every respect, but she kept hanging in there through the endless beatings in a way I don't think you could imagine many politicians could bear. This has played into the hands of the LibDems who astonishingly find themselves back in the game. Swinson is a pretty appalling and unprincipled politician, but nobody really cares about anything but their remain stance at present. Added to this, we've had the Blairite rump attacking the Labour leadership endlessly and the greatly overstated antisemitism claims recycled over and over again (expect to see more of this shortly). Corbyn or not, I think Labour have got too much to overcome to get to a majority.

That said, a lot of elderly Brexiteers are no longer on this mortal coil (and others won't be capable of voting any longer). If the young actually get off their rear ends and vote, something could happen. Anything, as long as it gets rid of Johnson. I just hope we end up with some kind of proper electoral reform so we can have a grown up electoral system like most of the rest of the world.

Quoted from Marinerz93

What are people's thoughts on Stephen Kinnock as the next labour leader, saw his speech earlier and he came across miles better than Corbyn has ever done.

Kinnock's dream is to be Blair Mk. II. Parachuted into a safe seat through patronage (no previous involvement in British politics as he'd been living in Europe for years). Calculating, untrustworthy and he was desperate for his own party to do badly in 2017 as he was expecting to be given a leg up in the aftermath. Pretty hilarious to see his reaction when the exit polls showed it was unlikely that there would be a Tory majority. Here's his wife (former Danish PM) giving him a bollocking telling him to get it together immediately before he went on air for an interview:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/everything-learned-stephen-kinnock-politics-13931165

Like something from The Thick of It.

I certainly wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Quoted from Grimbiggs

[quote=2]

Tories are a very short price to be the biggest party. There's definitely going to be more tactical alliances and voting on all sides so it's very hard to call. Tories get very few votes from under 40's. Younger voters are key, no excuse not to vote this time![/quote]

Yes, but the pied piper, aka Corbyn, won't be able to spin the line of getting rid of student tuition fees this time! Whilst he will still collect a large proportion of the younger vote, it's the older working class leave voter's that will desert him this time, for betraying the referendum result. Apathy will play a big part, and I think they will struggle to galvanise their vote amongst their core support. Labour's only hope of winning is by getting rid of him.

No one is disputing that the Tories will be the biggest party, but they only have the DUP (Max 10 MPs) to prop them up. The stop the Tories coalition that could prop up Labour can call on Lib Dem (15 +MPs), SNP (35+ MPs), PC (4+ MPs) & Greens (min 1 MP).

Being the biggest party is irrelevant if you can’t command a majority in the House of Commons.

Kinnock is worse than his old man, Blairite to the core and has no chance of ever holding any leadership thoughts. Corbyn will offer free student places again, it is Labour Party policy, it happens in Scotland and many other European countries as Maringer pointed out. The Labour Party are right to let Johnson stew in the !was and chaos he his creating for a while, he is completely out of his depth as shown at PMQs yesterday. The novelty of of having a complete clown as PM will soon wear very thin, he is already making Corbyn look more competent, he has dug himself a hole prepared for him by the far right brexiteers and is stuck in it.He is alienating a good chunk of his own party and has already lost his small majority. The opposition and rebels have effectively control of parliament and are unlikely to risk that with a General Election until Johnson is seen for the Hapless clown he is

One thing I've seen reported is that the Tories are quite confident that their internal polling indicates their approach can work.

Ultimately, they're going for the 'drunk off with it all' vote, thinking they can get the votes of those who just want Brexit over and one with one way or the other. Hence the positioning and propaganda we've seen over the past week or two. Nonsense like calling legislation to avoid a catastrophic no deal the 'surrender bill' and so forth. These voters won't care that Johnson won't answer any questions, because he doesn't have any answers. They are just bored and want it finished.

I don't think I should really need to note that you'd have to be a bit of a flipping idiot to vote for something which is almost certain to catastrophically damage the economy and your own livelihoods just because you're bored. But there you go, people are odd. If that's what the nation ultimately goes for, I just hope these people have enough savvy to accept that they made an error when it all goes mammaries up. My guess is that they won't.

Of course, my preference would be that they never get the chance to find out.

Quoted from Maringer

One thing I've seen reported is that the Tories are quite confident that their internal polling indicates their approach can work.

Ultimately, they're going for the 'drunk off with it all' vote, thinking they can get the votes of those who just want Brexit over and one with one way or the other. Hence the positioning and propaganda we've seen over the past week or two. Nonsense like calling legislation to avoid a catastrophic no deal the 'surrender bill' and so forth. These voters won't care that Johnson won't answer any questions, because he doesn't have any answers. They are just bored and want it finished.

I don't think I should really need to note that you'd have to be a bit of a flipping idiot to vote for something which is almost certain to catastrophically damage the economy and your own livelihoods just because you're bored. But there you go, people are odd. If that's what the nation ultimately goes for, I just hope these people have enough savvy to accept that they made an error when it all goes mammaries up. My guess is that they won't.

Of course, my preference would be that they never get the chance to find out.

They thought they were heading to a huge majority at the last election until 10PM when the exit poll result was announced.

So, the Prime Minister's brother has just resigned from government (and as an MP). To recycle a joke I've just read, you don't get many MPs leaving politics to spend less time with their family.  

Quoted from grimsby pete

I think if we knew how long it was going to take and all the infighting everywhere even on here a football forum.

A lot of us who voted to leave might think twice if there is a next time.

We just want it to end for Christ's sake !!!!!!!!!

I fear the opposite might be the case Pete and that, given a second vote, many remainers, so drunk off with it all, will change their minds and vote to leave (I won't incidentally) but at least that might ensure a larger leave majority than the first vote and therefore an end to all the bitching and nitpicking.

For this reason I really don't see why all the 'leavers' are so vehemently opposed and excrement vscared about putting it to a second vote, sadly I think in the event of a second run that leave will urine it.