Brexit

Quoted from barralad

What we don't know of course is how many Leave voters were influenced by the scare stories such as Turkey are days away from being admitted to the E.U. and that thousands of Turks will be heading for our shores. Both campaigns used scare tactics but the lazy barstewards Cameron and the terminally inadequate Osborne who thought the voters would swallow any old shite couldn't be bothered to do it properly. The Leave campaign were far more together, focussed and understood the mood of the people far better. The referendum was the first campaign to be "won" on the internet and social media. It changed campaigning completely and Labour's 2017 General Election campaign was more successful than Corbyn and co dared hope for because they quickly learned the lessons. The Tories still haven't grasped that posters condemning the opposition are so 1980s. My own particular favourite was referendum day itself where according to a friend of mine upwards of 100 people came to the polling station she was working on either armed with a pen or requesting one because the message had gone out that M.I.5 were going to be rubbing out the pencil marks of Leave voters. Every day I receive dozens of facebook/other social media posts from both sides. Truth is the only real victim here.

Fair points Ian, especially about the truth being the only real victim. The scaremongering on both sides, people though remember the doom mongers when they wanted us to join the Euro, our economy would collapse if we didn't join and the like proved to be all guff. There are thousands of Turks in the UK already, the number that would have come is an unknown but models based on influx from other EU countries would have been a fair estimate of Turks that could have potentially come, there is a lot of poverty in Turkey, especially away from the major holiday spots, and we've already seen the Benefits tourists from other poor EU countries.

Quoted from barralad

That figure of £302 billion if indeed it is correct is the total across all 27 other E.U. nations whereas ours represents our sole export figure. In other words the hit for any individual country is significantly watered down.
If no deal is as I accept the default anyway why does no deal need to be on the table?

I don't know of any business that would enter into a negotiation with I'll take what ever you offer me regardless of how poor that deal is. Have you ever walked away from buying something because that deal was no good for you, I know I have many times with various projects.

You are more likely to get a better deal if the other party knows you may potentially say no thanks, the no deal doesn't have to be acted on but from what we have seen the EU is clearly punishing the UK to scare smaller countries out of leaving too.

Quoted from Marinerz93

from what we have seen the EU is clearly punishing the UK to scare smaller countries out of leaving too.

Quite right too, we can hardly expect them to hold the door open for us thanking us as we leave or others might well chance their arm. Why would they. We chose to go they didn't push us.

As far as a 'no deal' exit is concerned I thought all the Brexiteer 'leave at any cost because the referendum said so' loonies would prefer to walk away with nowt anyway so intent are they on simply leaving at all costs that they're not bothered whether it is used as a lever or not, leaving is to them far more important, and intercourse the consequences, than getting 'a deal'

Quoted from Ipswin

Quite right too, we can hardly expect them to hold the door open for us thanking us as we leave or others might well chance their arm. Why would they. We chose to go they didn't push us.

As far as a 'no deal' exit is concerned I thought all the Brexiteer 'leave at any cost because the referendum said so' loonies would prefer to walk away with nowt anyway so intent are they on simply leaving at all costs that they're not bothered whether it is used as a lever or not, leaving is to them far more important, and intercourse the consequences, than getting 'a deal'

Drugs or alcohol tonight?

Quoted from Grim74

Drugs or alcohol tonight?

Neither sadly, just watching the five flipping buffoons who would be PM and who stupidly think they can get a better deal, leave with no deal or get what's already been tried no end of times through just because May has drunk off.

No mention of course about whether the people (leavers or remainers) would accept it. For felicitations sake are we really going to entrust the final verdict to any of these male masturbators?

None of them answered the question put by the very first questioner - no change there then! More of the same to come

Quoted from Ipswin

Quite right too, we can hardly expect them to hold the door open for us thanking us as we leave or others might well chance their arm. Why would they. We chose to go they didn't push us.

As far as a 'no deal' exit is concerned I thought all the Brexiteer 'leave at any cost because the referendum said so' loonies would prefer to walk away with nowt anyway so intent are they on simply leaving at all costs that they're not bothered whether it is used as a lever or not, leaving is to them far more important, and intercourse the consequences, than getting 'a deal'

For me, the deal should benefit both the UK and EU, however I wouldn't want a deal that stops us being free to do what we want both with our own laws, regulations, trading and our courts with the final say on all things legal. Free trade, why not but not at the expense of us being closed off from trading with the rest of the world under our own steam.

Quoted from Marinerz93

For me, the deal should benefit both the UK and EU, however I wouldn't want a deal that stops us being free to do what we want both with our own laws, regulations, trading and our courts with the final say on all things legal. Free trade, why not but not at the expense of us being closed off from trading with the rest of the world under our own steam.

And that might be the ideal solution in the eyes of many but that's the sort of arrangement which the EU are simply not going to agree to and why should they? We seek to leave, why would they make it easy for us and agree to any terms we try to insist on.

Personally I don't have any strong feelings either way about sovereignty, courts, laws et al to be honest but I do want us to keep a free trade agreement with the EU (even if it means we can't do business in the Andaman Islands, Chad or the Ryuku Islands) I think inter EU trade is simply the best way forward for us and I believe that's the deal which would jointly benefit the UK and the EU too as you suggest

Quoted from Ipswin

And that might be the ideal solution in the eyes of many but that's the sort of arrangement which the EU are simply not going to agree to and why should they? We seek to leave, why would they make it easy for us and agree to any terms we try to insist on.

Personally I don't have any strong feelings either way about sovereignty, courts, laws et al to be honest but I do want us to keep a free trade agreement with the EU (even if it means we can't do business in the Andaman Islands, Chad or the Ryuku Islands) I think inter EU trade is simply the best way forward for us and I believe that's the deal which would jointly benefit the UK and the EU too as you suggest

I'd prefer to do trading with the common wealth countries and nations that would benefit from our business raising them out of the third world rather than be stuck in a protectionist union which in the whole is set up to benefit France and Germany and with future plans they will claw more of the money away from us.

Meanwhile, the formation of a European Army (European Defence Union) was of course a load of scaremongering hogwash [url] https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/european-defence-union-parliamentary-written-questions[/url]

Quoted from Ipswin

Neither sadly, just watching the five flipping buffoons who would be PM and who stupidly think they can get a better deal, leave with no deal or get what's already been tried no end of times through just because May has drunk off.

No mention of course about whether the people (leavers or remainers) would accept it. For felicitations sake are we really going to entrust the final verdict to any of these male masturbators?

None of them answered the question put by the very first questioner - no change there then! More of the same to come

Rory Stewart was at least honest about the primary problem, but couldn't answer what would happen when May's deal would be rejected a 4th time.

The EU WILL NOT renegotiate. No deal WILL NOT happen. May's deal WILL NOT pass through parliament. There will 100% have to be some form of democratic event to sort the issue out.

The government's majority is so slim and there are enough Tory PMs who have stated they will do whatever it takes to avoid a no deal Brexit (i.e. even bring the government down in a Vote of No Confidence) that neither Boris or Jeremy CHunt would ultimately push for a no deal Brexit.

The Prime Minister will be faced with 2 options: 1) Try and force through no deal and see the government collapse, a general election called and the Conservatives wiped out. 2) Call a 2nd referendum with no deal or remain on the ballot paper,

The PM will go for option 2, because if Brexit doesn't happen then he can blame parliament and the Conservatives can try and limp on for a couple of years and recover enough so that the inevitable election defeat they are facing isn't so bad.

The EU won't grant an extension if we're just trying to kick the can down the road again, but they would 100% extend for a democratic process that may result in us revoking A50 and staying in the EU.