Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Does Anybody Believe MJ Can Turn This Around.
Users Browsing Forum
AdSense and 311 Guests

Does Anybody Believe MJ Can Turn This Around.

  This thread currently has 9,426 views. Print
8 Pages Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All Recommend Thread
Cloudy
October 3, 2018, 11:42am
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,335
Posts Per Day: 1.15
Reputation: 71.17%
Rep Score: +17 / -8
Approval: +6,431
Dont often agree with Rancido but the last two posts above are spot on IMHO
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 60 - 70
ginnywings
October 3, 2018, 11:57am

Recovering Alcoholic
Posts: 28,126
Posts Per Day: 5.05
Reputation: 73.79%
Rep Score: +88 / -32
Approval: +55,972
Gold Stars: 537
I feel that managers like Jolley will become the norm rather than the exception eventually. He has all the qualifications, but like a lot of people fresh out of school, he has to acquire the on the job experience. That will only come with time, and time will only be allowed if the results are sufficient to keep the axe from hovering. Some clubs will be more patient than others, and some clubs will be better able to support fledgling managers than others.

Some feel that our board are way behind the times and should Jolley fail, can the blame be solely attached to him and him alone? There is also the fan equation. Will the fans stay patient when they have seen no progress from the team since we returned to the football league?

I think Jolley can turn it around given time and support from the board and the fans. As ever, only time will tell.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 61 - 70
1mickylyons
October 3, 2018, 12:18pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 9,040
Posts Per Day: 1.53
Reputation: 75.68%
Rep Score: +42 / -14
Approval: +9,257
Gold Stars: 54
I missed the last home game but I haven`t heard anything other than individual comments or conversations that have been anything but supportive of MJ. I think the overwhelming majority want him to succeed and it was always going to take time BUT nobody expected such a dreadful start.Mr Fenty would have been well within his rights to have fired him after Saturday given the run of results and should we lose this Saturday it will heap the pressure back on.A win Saturday buys some breathing space for a few week`s and we will be another 2 weeks nearer January and some much needed reinforcements.Keep it going MJ
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 62 - 70
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 3, 2018, 12:50pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,638
Posts Per Day: 1.35
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,658
Gold Stars: 23
Quoted from rancido



You make some good points but all coaches/managers have to have some kind of basic knowledge to work from including relevant qualifications. Even the older players will have gone through some kind of development work in their early careers and worked under coaches, like Jolley, who have the necessary coaching qualifications. MJ also has the League Managers Association Diploma In Football Management. This qualification covers subjects such as Influencing and Negotiation, Mental Toughness and Resilience,  Football Finance, Diversity , Equality and Inclusion, Sports Science and Performance Analytics and focused on leadership, personal development and well being. These are all areas that in the past managers would have acquired by years of experience but the Football League have managed to put them in course form. His qualifications in the world of finance and his financial employment demonstrates that he is able to transfer the theoretical side into the practical side.


I have read the curriculum and I know what he will have studied for his Business qualifications. Most of the FIFA classroom stuff is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the real world because it tries to use models from other disciplines of work to create a football industry qualification. In fact it is part of the attempt to create an industry out of a sport.

There are plenty of alternative theories on how the game should be played but the one key factor in football management is the management of people and in particular people who have more experience and/or knowledge than the manager does. In general that matters little at youth level but once you get into the first team slot it is absolutely crucial. Some of it is a personal quality and some of it is a matter of common sense. I remember finding this out in my first managerial level job being promoted over older blokes. Not easy. You have to prove yourself every day. All my academic qualifications counted for zilch until I could give proof positive I could do the job.

Of course there are other factors to consider but my personal opinion is that this is still Jolley’s biggest problem just now. He has to prove himself as a practical winner of games, show the dressing room that his decisions will get them results and he is not just a fancy-dan with a smart suit, laptop and letters after his name.



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 63 - 70
rancido
October 3, 2018, 1:34pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,452
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 80.3%
Rep Score: +41 / -10
Approval: +6,445
Gold Stars: 91


I have read the curriculum and I know what he will have studied for his Business qualifications. Most of the FIFA classroom stuff is about as much use as a chocolate teapot in the real world because it tries to use models from other disciplines of work to create a football industry qualification. In fact it is part of the attempt to create an industry out of a sport.

There are plenty of alternative theories on how the game should be played but the one key factor in football management is the management of people and in particular people who have more experience and/or knowledge than the manager does. In general that matters little at youth level but once you get into the first team slot it is absolutely crucial. Some of it is a personal quality and some of it is a matter of common sense. I remember finding this out in my first managerial level job being promoted over older blokes. Not easy. You have to prove yourself every day. All my academic qualifications counted for zilch until I could give proof positive I could do the job.

Of course there are other factors to consider but my personal opinion is that this is still Jolley’s biggest problem just now. He has to prove himself as a practical winner of games, show the dressing room that his decisions will get them results and he is not just a fancy-dan with a smart suit, laptop and letters after his name.




A lot of the points you make are valid and indeed I agree with. The one part I do disagree on is the highlighted part. Football is indeed a sport but the world of " organised sport " as football is through FIFA is an industry. It might not fit into your perceived model of what an industry is but nevertheless it is and business models for industry are relevant.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 64 - 70
barralad
October 3, 2018, 2:35pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,791
Posts Per Day: 2.33
Reputation: 81.03%
Rep Score: +86 / -20
Approval: +9,193
Gold Stars: 121
Quoted from rancido



Nobody is blaming the fans and the post doesn't say that. The fans though can influence the mood in the dressing room and on the pitch,especially if there are lots of negative, personal and unconstructive comments directed at the management/players.


I've already said elsewhere but last night we saw the undoubted benefits of fans getting behind the team from the first minute. The singing and chanting didn't just start after we scored.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 65 - 70
pen penfras
October 3, 2018, 3:24pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,677
Posts Per Day: 0.67
Reputation: 58.56%
Rep Score: +8 / -9
Approval: -137
Gold Stars: 71
Quoted from barralad


I've already said elsewhere but last night we saw the undoubted benefits of fans getting behind the team from the first minute. The singing and chanting didn't just start after we scored.


It's always like that away. The away support is almost always brilliant. It's at home where the miserable gits seem to drag the tone down from early on in a game almost weekly. And this isn't a new thing, it's been a constant ever since I started going even under Laws and Buckley II. For some reason, if we're not winning or playing very well after 15-20 minutes, the shouts of rubbish etc are ringing out. This is a very small minority of people, you can probably count them on your fingers, but they seem to bring the whole atmosphere down to me.

I don't think it's any coincidence that when Jolley came in last season and it was literally get behind the team or we go down, that the fans turned out in numbers, got behind the team like I've never seen before and the performances followed. I remember us going behind (Port Vale iirc) and the fans actually got behind the team and encouraged rather than moaned and it felt like a totally different place to be.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 66 - 70
lew chaterleys lover
October 3, 2018, 3:58pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,942
Posts Per Day: 1.07
Reputation: 75.9%
Rep Score: +30 / -10
Approval: +10,545
Gold Stars: 231
Quoted from barralad


I've already said elsewhere but last night we saw the undoubted benefits of fans getting behind the team from the first minute. The singing and chanting didn't just start after we scored.


I have to say I think that is just a reaction to a win.

Especially away from home our support is great, but usually makes no difference to the result whatsoever.

It is totally unrealistic to expect fans to sing and chant for 90 minutes if the result is going against you.

I don't expect BP will be a cauldron on Saturday but I don't expect us to meekly surrender just because the crowd are quiet .
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 67 - 70
MuddyWaters
October 3, 2018, 4:36pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 14,028
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +31,880
Gold Stars: 230
Quoted from barralad


I've already said elsewhere but last night we saw the undoubted benefits of fans getting behind the team from the first minute. The singing and chanting didn't just start after we scored.


It's a two-way thing though isn't it? The crowd at BP have, for time immemorial, always taken some stirring. I hoped - and still hope - that MJ will deliver what he said pre-season and produce a team that plays with pace, a high tempo and on the front foot. That would certainly please a miserable old curmudgeon like me.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 68 - 70
barralad
October 3, 2018, 4:36pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,791
Posts Per Day: 2.33
Reputation: 81.03%
Rep Score: +86 / -20
Approval: +9,193
Gold Stars: 121


I have to say I think that is just a reaction to a win.

Especially away from home our support is great, but usually makes no difference to the result whatsoever.

It is totally unrealistic to expect fans to sing and chant for 90 minutes if the result is going against you.

I don't expect BP will be a cauldron on Saturday but I don't expect us to meekly surrender just because the crowd are quiet .


Well we didn't go behind so you may be right. It just struck me that there seemed to be a concerted effort from the first minute led by a small group in the front couple of rows. It wasn't something I experienced at Macclesfield where we also won. I've tried to think of similar matches and off the top of my head the only time I can remember thinking the same was a game at Bury (possibly in Mike Newell's spell) where the late, great Trumpeter Rich and a drummer created the same conditions...we won that day as well. Trust me Brunton Park was like a morgue last night and the players would have heard every word..especially in the second half. I


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 69 - 70
8 Pages Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Does Anybody Believe MJ Can Turn This Around.

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.