Let's face it.....

Quoted from pen penfras

I get what you're saying and doubt we have a top 5 budget, but I just don't get this opinion. We don't make much money despite having the 8th highest average attendance in the league last season. How does that translate as a low budget? It doesn't really add up to me. Sure, some clubs like FGR, Mansfield, Lincoln and Notts County have a sugar daddy that's pumping money in, but they don't all have one.

The second part is kind of a moot point. We all know that money won't be given to the club, so why expect it? Even if money was put in, it would be as loans which you'd then take exception to. We have to live within our means and our support suggests that should be enough to be top half, which I expect is about where our budget is. Quite why we don't seem to be able to achieve that is beyond me, but I can't believe that last season 30 odd players was a low budget and we've signed some well known players this season who must be on a decent wage.

JF loaning money and not buying shares in order to have the courage of his own convictions to add value to his investment is so ingrained into the psyche of our club that the good old normal route of investing in the club and backing yourself to increase the value of the said shares is often forgotten in these parts. So, even though I agree with most of what you say in your post, the highlighted line is just not true. Have we forgotten Mike Parker? Because of how JF operates, how the hell do we know for certain that there isn't any more Mike Parkers out there but don't fancy sitting round a table with our current board? JF categorically stated that investors wouldn't invest because of the criticism he received from the fans. (Fans fault for no inward investment). He's far too arrogant to see that the criticism is deserved because of his sorry record in charge. He's far too arrogant to see that potential investors have seen how difficult he is to work with. He's far too arrogant to see that new investors taking over would be given time to deliver. And he's far too arrogant to see that the fans (the ordinary people - his own words at the Fan's Forum) see through his bullshit excuses. I believe there are people out there that would be willing to invest in shares, (Lincoln have found thirteen in the past couple of years that have had to buy 75k's worth for a seat on the board), but don't value the club at 3m like JF does, and don't fancy working alongside him. So no, loaning the club money is not the only way for investors to push this club forward, it's been the way for this club the past twenty years because one man has dictated that this is the way for the club to go and it hasn't worked out well for us has it? The club walks and talks like the dinosaur JF is. Yes he made some dough in the 80s and the 90s after being given a decent start by his dad, but what's he done since? He still operates like he's in those decades and so does the club. Let's not get hung up on the belief that every investor will want to loan the club money because it's not a fact and simply not true. There's better ways for GTFC to progress and the JF way of loaning what is now looking a pittance for a Football League club over twenty years is definitely not the way and JF should have no part in mapping out the future running of the club if and when he leaves. He's had his go and made a right mess of it and he should have the good grace to have a good honest look at the damage he's done and give Grimsby Town Football Club back to the people of Grimsby and beyond for us to have any chance in the future before he and the club become even more of a laughing stock than they already are..

Investing in football clubs by way of director's loans is the only option we've got is simply just not true or correct..

Quoted from promotion plaice

We need a Chairman that can buy us out of trouble if needed

We could buy Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Mbappe (or whatever his name is) et al it still wouldn't work if the manager wasn't up to it

Anyway I think he's made some good signings Vernam(the eternal sub), Hessenthaler, Welsh, Thomas,(they were greeted as  better than expected by many) and I don't think we should be too harsh on the new boys

I'm sorry to say I don't think the manager and his assistant are managing them properly and are just not getting the best out of them

Quoted from promotion plaice

The way I see it is we need to have a competitive player budget which clearly we haven't got, as in we never signed that recognised goalscorer that we all could see we needed (we only sign bargain basement for this level).......and how many of our players would get into another League 2 team.

We need a Chairman that can buy us out of trouble if needed and would Mr Fenty be prepared to do that ?  doubt it.

I'm sorry but there are several points here that need challenging for the sake of balance.
The "evidence" that we don't have a competitive budget is our failure to sign an out and out goalscorer. That view can be countered by evidence that we were able to sign a key player in a local rivals play-off making team. A player who scored a winning goal at Wembley. A player who wasn't released by that club. It is beyond comprehension that someone in that position would move for peanuts. We also signed a player who had been at a Championship club. A player who may well have attracted attention from the plethora of league clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 in the area he'd been playing in. A player who would be unlikely to come to the other side of the country dropping two leagues for peanuts.
In all this no-one is asking the question as to whether Jolley has been knocked back in his pursuit of any target by the board/JF. I guess we will never actually know but the "evidence" suggests that he has got most if not all things that he has asked for including back room staff.
To me as an outsider it has looked like Jolley has been told what the budget is and then he's been trusted to spend it.  After the comparative balls up Bignot made of spending what he'd been backed with (not on about individuals here more the strategy that saw him recruit midfielders to burn whilst reneging on a promise to ship out) the club board could have inserted more controls over spending. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that has happened.
This isn't directed at you P.P. but I cannot be bothered to reply to multiple posts. There is a conundrum facing J.F.s critics in that the main issue for many is the financial hold he has over the club via his loans yet there are repeated posts on here exhorting him to get his hand in his pocket again. I absolutely detest the thought that the future of GTFC is so firmly in the hands of one man. I joined the Trust because I wanted to help firstly reduce and then eradicate the need for J.F. to put any more money at all in. I don't know for definite but there are very strong rumours (and probably evidence in the annual accounts) that he hasn't put any money in for several years. I'm delighted by this. In a perfect world I'd love him to write off the loans he has but anybody either on here or elsewhere who says that they would write off a sum of money of that size out of a sense of altruism is not being honest with themselves regardless of how compelling the "evidence" that he should might be. I saw another post earlier which attacked the view that Town suffered from a geographical problem when recruiting players using Scunthorpe as an example. Would that be the Scunthorpe that is having millions pumped in by a sugar daddy seemingly monthly. If I was a Scunny fan I'd be very worried about what will happen when he has finally had enough! We do have a problem having to attract players to a bit of an outpost compared to other areas. It is reasonable to assume that we are therefore having to pay a bit more.
The key for me is the continued development of the youth system sadly neglected by necessity during our time in non-league which was why I was particularly pleased to see Michael Jolley appointed. Money spent on bringing youths through will save us a great deal more in ridiculously inflated deals over time.
I was there on Saturday after having missed the Bury debacle and was truly appalled by the performance and its complete lack of any offensive considerations. It was a long journey home during which I claim to the conclusion that poor as it is at the moment the upheaval caused by swapping managers AGAIN could do untold damage. For the vast majority of fans Jolley was a good appointment. He simply has in my opinion to be given more time.

Quoted from barralad

I'm sorry but there are several points here that need challenging for the sake of balance.
The "evidence" that we don't have a competitive budget is our failure to sign an out and out goalscorer. That view can be countered by evidence that we were able to sign a key player in a local rivals play-off making team. A player who scored a winning goal at Wembley. A player who wasn't released by that club. It is beyond comprehension that someone in that position would move for peanuts. We also signed a player who had been at a Championship club. A player who may well have attracted attention from the plethora of league clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 in the area he'd been playing in. A player who would be unlikely to come to the other side of the country dropping two leagues for peanuts.
In all this no-one is asking the question as to whether Jolley has been knocked back in his pursuit of any target by the board/JF. I guess we will never actually know but the "evidence" suggests that he has got most if not all things that he has asked for including back room staff.
To me as an outsider it has looked like Jolley has been told what the budget is and then he's been trusted to spend it.  After the comparative balls up Bignot made of spending what he'd been backed with (not on about individuals here more the strategy that saw him recruit midfielders to burn whilst reneging on a promise to ship out) the club board could have inserted more controls over spending. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that has happened.
This isn't directed at you P.P. but I cannot be bothered to reply to multiple posts. There is a conundrum facing J.F.s critics in that the main issue for many is the financial hold he has over the club via his loans yet there are repeated posts on here exhorting him to get his hand in his pocket again. I absolutely detest the thought that the future of GTFC is so firmly in the hands of one man. I joined the Trust because I wanted to help firstly reduce and then eradicate the need for J.F. to put any more money at all in. I don't know for definite but there are very strong rumours (and probably evidence in the annual accounts) that he hasn't put any money in for several years. I'm delighted by this. In a perfect world I'd love him to write off the loans he has but anybody either on here or elsewhere who says that they would write off a sum of money of that size out of a sense of altruism is not being honest with themselves regardless of how compelling the "evidence" that he should might be. I saw another post earlier which attacked the view that Town suffered from a geographical problem when recruiting players using Scunthorpe as an example. Would that be the Scunthorpe that is having millions pumped in by a sugar daddy seemingly monthly. If I was a Scunny fan I'd be very worried about what will happen when he has finally had enough! We do have a problem having to attract players to a bit of an outpost compared to other areas. It is reasonable to assume that we are therefore having to pay a bit more.
The key for me is the continued development of the youth system sadly neglected by necessity during our time in non-league which was why I was particularly pleased to see Michael Jolley appointed. Money spent on bringing youths through will save us a great deal more in ridiculously inflated deals over time.
I was there on Saturday after having missed the Bury debacle and was truly appalled by the performance and its complete lack of any offensive considerations. It was a long journey home during which I claim to the conclusion that poor as it is at the moment the upheaval caused by swapping managers AGAIN could do untold damage. For the vast majority of fans Jolley was a good appointment. He simply has in my opinion to be given more time.

Nailed it Barra..

The club spend as much on playing budget as it possibly can without making a loss, the evidence is in the accounts.

I don't think the question is about JF putting his hand in his pocket. The question is.. is GTFC the best it can be led by JF? If not, could the playing budget be greater if the club's income could be stimulated by new directors with new ideas and fresh investment? This identifies the roadblock to outside perceptions of our club changing and us being truly competitive in the Football League again. After 17 years the club exudes the culture of JF and it's like a big dark cloud hanging over BP, Cheapside and NE Lincs. Someone has got to get a grip of this man and tell him that by purely balancing the books at GTFC season, he's not doing anywhere near a good job, it's not enough to justify his position at the helm of the club. The club needs far more than that to progress. It needs fresh ideas, fresh investment and a whole change of culture away from his stubborn one-mindedness for a young manager and the rest of the staff to flourish. The club needs nothing from JF, least of all his money, and any accountant can balance the books and set budgets season after season. We just need someone else to create a bigger money pot than JF could ever hope to achieve. He's absolutely rubbish at raising the income for the club and is too prepared to sit on his throne and see the club rot from within, make no excuses for his lack of success and blame everyone else rather than do the right thing and let the football club progress and flourish without him. That statement he made about the new stadium had nothing to do with the best for the future of the football club, all it was about was him trying to position himself as the main man in the whole process, the content of it served no purpose otherwise. A joint statement had already been published.

Name your price JF and the promise of a clean break from the club when it's met and let see what transpires. Anything less and the claims that you've had enough at the Fan's Forum were no more than attempts to gain some sympathy for yourself. If you love the club like you say you do and if you can honestly appraise your body of work, you'll do the right thing for the good of GTFC and all of its supporters around the globe..

Lets face it....... old saying..... if things dont alter they will stay as they are

Quoted from barralad

I'm sorry but there are several points here that need challenging for the sake of balance.
The "evidence" that we don't have a competitive budget is our failure to sign an out and out goalscorer. That view can be countered by evidence that we were able to sign a key player in a local rivals play-off making team. A player who scored a winning goal at Wembley. A player who wasn't released by that club. It is beyond comprehension that someone in that position would move for peanuts. We also signed a player who had been at a Championship club. A player who may well have attracted attention from the plethora of league clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 in the area he'd been playing in. A player who would be unlikely to come to the other side of the country dropping two leagues for peanuts.
In all this no-one is asking the question as to whether Jolley has been knocked back in his pursuit of any target by the board/JF. I guess we will never actually know but the "evidence" suggests that he has got most if not all things that he has asked for including back room staff.
To me as an outsider it has looked like Jolley has been told what the budget is and then he's been trusted to spend it.  After the comparative balls up Bignot made of spending what he'd been backed with (not on about individuals here more the strategy that saw him recruit midfielders to burn whilst reneging on a promise to ship out) the club board could have inserted more controls over spending. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that has happened.
This isn't directed at you P.P. but I cannot be bothered to reply to multiple posts. There is a conundrum facing J.F.s critics in that the main issue for many is the financial hold he has over the club via his loans yet there are repeated posts on here exhorting him to get his hand in his pocket again. I absolutely detest the thought that the future of GTFC is so firmly in the hands of one man. I joined the Trust because I wanted to help firstly reduce and then eradicate the need for J.F. to put any more money at all in. I don't know for definite but there are very strong rumours (and probably evidence in the annual accounts) that he hasn't put any money in for several years. I'm delighted by this. In a perfect world I'd love him to write off the loans he has but anybody either on here or elsewhere who says that they would write off a sum of money of that size out of a sense of altruism is not being honest with themselves regardless of how compelling the "evidence" that he should might be. I saw another post earlier which attacked the view that Town suffered from a geographical problem when recruiting players using Scunthorpe as an example. Would that be the Scunthorpe that is having millions pumped in by a sugar daddy seemingly monthly. If I was a Scunny fan I'd be very worried about what will happen when he has finally had enough! We do have a problem having to attract players to a bit of an outpost compared to other areas. It is reasonable to assume that we are therefore having to pay a bit more.
The key for me is the continued development of the youth system sadly neglected by necessity during our time in non-league which was why I was particularly pleased to see Michael Jolley appointed. Money spent on bringing youths through will save us a great deal more in ridiculously inflated deals over time.
I was there on Saturday after having missed the Bury debacle and was truly appalled by the performance and its complete lack of any offensive considerations. It was a long journey home during which I claim to the conclusion that poor as it is at the moment the upheaval caused by swapping managers AGAIN could do untold damage. For the vast majority of fans Jolley was a good appointment. He simply has in my opinion to be given more time.

I agree with most of your comments Barra but, you, like others, need to stop comparing us to Scunthorpe. We should only be interested in ourselves and what we can do. The truth is that we are being run in order to stand still not progress.

There are now rumours doing the rounds that another member of staff wants MJ's job - excrement like this needs sorting long before it gets on social media. We have the first JF interview since last whenever and it's trying to legitimise a stadium development that no-one wants. The truth is that no-one seems to know what they want, there is no plan and the club is incoherent in what it's trying to achieve.

Surely, at times like this, you need your fans. Why won't the club entrust itself to the opinions of those that support it?

The answer is simple. It's one man's self-interest.

My fear is that John doesn't name a price for a takeover, sits in the ivory tower and watches the club fail over and again. Then hold his hands up and claim he did nothing wrong and it's not his fault but all the boards decisions. The actions of a true megalomaniac with a tinge of cowardice, arrogance and narcissism. There'd be no shame from my point of view if he just walked away now. In fact, that would be the most positive thing he could do for the club. The trouble is, and I'm quoting him here, why should he? He sees his loan as a hold on the club that he shouldn't write off. It's his money, not the club's. While technically correct, if as he's said in the past he's written it off in his head already, why not do it on the books as well? Back to the previous statements about his arrogance and narcissism.

And as for the council seemingly offering an olive branch to the club to go for the Freemo option for the new ground, can anyone on here seriously see him taking that option with no chance of him getting his mitts on the housing development opportunity??? Not a prayer. As long as he's on the board, he's an obstacle to this as well. He's got to much self interest in the project to be objective about the future of the club.

Very worried about both the state of things on and off the pitch at the mo.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I agree with most of your comments Barra but, you, like others, need to stop comparing us to Scunthorpe. We should only be interested in ourselves and what we can do. The truth is that we are being run in order to stand still not progress.

There are now rumours doing the rounds that another member of staff wants MJ's job - excrement like this needs sorting long before it gets on social media. We have the first JF interview since last whenever and it's trying to legitimise a stadium development that no-one wants. The truth is that no-one seems to know what they want, there is no plan and the club is incoherent in what it's trying to achieve.

Surely, at times like this, you need your fans. Why won't the club entrust itself to the opinions of those that support it?

The answer is simple. It's one man's self-interest.

If you re-read my post I wasn't comparing us to Scunny. I was saying that the person who was on a post that I now cannot find was wrong to do so for the reasons I gave IMO of course.

Quoted from barralad

If you re-read my post I wasn't comparing us to Scunny. I was saying that the person who was on a post that I now cannot find was wrong to do so for the reasons I gave IMO of course.

Point taken - I just find it a bit annoying when some do. The Swanns are in a position to do what they do.

Quoted from barralad

I'm sorry but there are several points here that need challenging for the sake of balance.
The "evidence" that we don't have a competitive budget is our failure to sign an out and out goalscorer. That view can be countered by evidence that we were able to sign a key player in a local rivals play-off making team. A player who scored a winning goal at Wembley. A player who wasn't released by that club. It is beyond comprehension that someone in that position would move for peanuts. We also signed a player who had been at a Championship club. A player who may well have attracted attention from the plethora of league clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 in the area he'd been playing in. A player who would be unlikely to come to the other side of the country dropping two leagues for peanuts.
In all this no-one is asking the question as to whether Jolley has been knocked back in his pursuit of any target by the board/JF. I guess we will never actually know but the "evidence" suggests that he has got most if not all things that he has asked for including back room staff.
To me as an outsider it has looked like Jolley has been told what the budget is and then he's been trusted to spend it.  After the comparative balls up Bignot made of spending what he'd been backed with (not on about individuals here more the strategy that saw him recruit midfielders to burn whilst reneging on a promise to ship out) the club board could have inserted more controls over spending. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that has happened.
This isn't directed at you P.P. but I cannot be bothered to reply to multiple posts. There is a conundrum facing J.F.s critics in that the main issue for many is the financial hold he has over the club via his loans yet there are repeated posts on here exhorting him to get his hand in his pocket again. I absolutely detest the thought that the future of GTFC is so firmly in the hands of one man. I joined the Trust because I wanted to help firstly reduce and then eradicate the need for J.F. to put any more money at all in. I don't know for definite but there are very strong rumours (and probably evidence in the annual accounts) that he hasn't put any money in for several years. I'm delighted by this. In a perfect world I'd love him to write off the loans he has but anybody either on here or elsewhere who says that they would write off a sum of money of that size out of a sense of altruism is not being honest with themselves regardless of how compelling the "evidence" that he should might be. I saw another post earlier which attacked the view that Town suffered from a geographical problem when recruiting players using Scunthorpe as an example. Would that be the Scunthorpe that is having millions pumped in by a sugar daddy seemingly monthly. If I was a Scunny fan I'd be very worried about what will happen when he has finally had enough! We do have a problem having to attract players to a bit of an outpost compared to other areas. It is reasonable to assume that we are therefore having to pay a bit more.
The key for me is the continued development of the youth system sadly neglected by necessity during our time in non-league which was why I was particularly pleased to see Michael Jolley appointed. Money spent on bringing youths through will save us a great deal more in ridiculously inflated deals over time.
I was there on Saturday after having missed the Bury debacle and was truly appalled by the performance and its complete lack of any offensive considerations. It was a long journey home during which I claim to the conclusion that poor as it is at the moment the upheaval caused by swapping managers AGAIN could do untold damage. For the vast majority of fans Jolley was a good appointment. He simply has in my opinion to be given more time.

I remember you saying exactly the same about Neil Woods constantly and we know where that ended up.