Michael  Jolley

Quoted from arryarryarry

I am in no way suggesting MJ should be sacked but if we are in or around the bottom 2 come Christmas then his position has to be looked at.

As regards remembering the time up to getting relegated out of the League, I remember JF keeping faith with Neil Woods and we know where that got us.

But he wasn't JF's choice . It was the other members of the Board including Mike Parker who wanted Woods as manager.

Quoted from Bigdog

I got your point first time Mal, I think the one I was making has gone totally over you're head..

Nothing to do with league position and I did say I don't think we'll be in a relegation battle and in other threads I've said that MJ needs plenty of time..

Barring a few clubs, the top half of the table will bear no resemblance come May. Your argument still hold sway in March if we lose to the seven or eight new teams in the top half?

Just to make it clear.. my point was look at the size and stature of clubs we're now supposed to accept to lose to because some people feel the need to look all reasonable and patient..

Those clubs built new sides in the summer too..

The acceptance of mediocrity and swiftness to offer excuses for it is staggering on here sometimes..

It's got nothing to do with accepting defeat , just accepting that a defeat has occurred. As far as bringing into question the " stature " of the clubs we have lost to then all that demonstrates is a " billy big b*llox " attitude by the poster. Just because a club has a " low status " doesn't mean they are doomed to carry that mantle all their lives. Who would have thought Accrington could achieve what they have done, especially considering the kind of budget they must work to. No club has a divine right to beat another team based on their " stature " - we did enough " giant killing " when we were at Championship level.

Quoted from rancido

It's got nothing to do with accepting defeat , just accepting that a defeat has occurred. As far as bringing into question the " stature " of the clubs we have lost to then all that demonstrates is a " billy big b*llox " attitude by the poster. Just because a club has a " low status " doesn't mean they are doomed to carry that mantle all their lives. Who would have thought Accrington could achieve what they have done, especially considering the kind of budget they must work to. No club has a divine right to beat another team based on their " stature " - we did enough " giant killing " when we were at Championship level.

How about we try to beat more teams in our Football League division than we lose to? That would be a refreshing change - it hasn't happened since 2005/6.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

How about we try to beat more teams in our Football League division than we lose to? That would be a refreshing change - it hasn't happened since 2005/6.

I agree but my post was in response to the statement that we lose to " low stature teams". The reality is that we are a medium sized town with a medium sized budget based on our finances. What kind of " stature " does that make us. Forget the fact that some time , certainly before mine, we graced the old First division. Football has altered enormously in the last 50 years and we do not have some divine right to think we are a big club or that other clubs with a more humble history than ours are " lower in stature ".

Quoted from MuddyWaters

How about we try to beat more teams in our Football League division than we lose to? That would be a refreshing change - it hasn't happened since 2005/6.

That would suggest it isn't entirely down to the current manager. Or might explain why we can't get better.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

That would suggest it isn't entirely down to the current manager. Or might explain why we can't get better.

It clearly isn't down to the current manager - but it's OK, I'm expecting Championship football in 5 years - because a director said so!  

Quoted from rancido

It's got nothing to do with accepting defeat , just accepting that a defeat has occurred. As far as bringing into question the " stature " of the clubs we have lost to then all that demonstrates is a " billy big b*llox " attitude by the poster. Just because a club has a " low status " doesn't mean they are doomed to carry that mantle all their lives. Who would have thought Accrington could achieve what they have done, especially considering the kind of budget they must work to. No club has a divine right to beat another team based on their " stature " - we did enough " giant killing " when we were at Championship level.

I get what you're saying. Regardless of what supporters think and it had to be recognised that as "supporters" by nature are usually bias toward their team/club a clubs stature is surely based upon recent league position?

So for us what was it last season 18th, the first season back was about14th? in the 4th tier. After a long stint in non league? After a period of decline as others moved forward.

Some posters have referred to us as a "once great club" yeah we punched above our weight for decent periods in the 80's and 90's but post war our "stature" has been 3rd and 4th Division. The difference is in the modern age of agents, social media, Bosman, Sky, academies, loyalty bonuses instead of 10 year testimonials and player power hitting the heady heights of the 3rd tier needs many things most of which we lack as a football club.    

In recent times I'm not even sure you can associate GTFC with and real EFL stature. Yes we are an old club with a long history but in reality our stature is 90th in the pyramid something that the current regime need to take full accountability for, I doubt they will though as their Teflon will always protect them.          

Quoted from rancido

But he wasn't JF's choice . It was the other members of the Board including Mike Parker who wanted Woods as manager.

So I had heard but that was not the point, he should have pulled the trigger halfway through that terrible run because I think 3 or 4 more points would have kept us up.

JF was probably listening to the numpties on here who kept saying he would keep us up.

Quoted from rancido

It's got nothing to do with accepting defeat , just accepting that a defeat has occurred. As far as bringing into question the " stature " of the clubs we have lost to then all that demonstrates is a " billy big b*llox " attitude by the poster. Just because a club has a " low status " doesn't mean they are doomed to carry that mantle all their lives. Who would have thought Accrington could achieve what they have done, especially considering the kind of budget they must work to. No club has a divine right to beat another team based on their " stature " - we did enough " giant killing " when we were at Championship level.

Not my point at all. And thanks for second guessing my "billy big bollox" attitude. My point was, all of those sides have a lower turnover than us but seem to organise themselves better every summer as do similar clubs in the division above. No, we don't have a divine right to beat anyone based upon size but also they don't have the divine right to beat us either, yet still manage to do it season after season decade after decade and some of our fans are so conditioned to it that they think it's ok, normal and make any old excuse for it. If it's your opinion that I have a "billy big bollox" attitude in being cheesed off to not pick a single point off Yeovil, Newport, FGR, Stevenage, Oldham and Bury, then god help our club and god help your miniscule expectations. It's like you've walked in on six blokes having a go on your missus for the upteenth time and for the upteenth time you immediately look for excuses to prove that they've got every right to. As you've brought bollox up, it's maybe time you should grow a pair and start demanding more off our club rather than just trotting out the Accrington line which I'm sure you'll be using that and maybe Leicester too to justify abject failure from a club that should on the balance of probabilities be doing better than it is at least more than once in the past twenty seasons ..

Quoted from Bigdog

Not my point at all. And thanks for second guessing my "billy big bollox" attitude. My point was, all of those sides have a lower turnover than us but seem to organise themselves better every summer as do similar clubs in the division above. No, we don't have a divine right to beat anyone based upon size but also they don't have the divine right to beat us either, yet still manage to do it season after season decade after decade and some of our fans are so conditioned to it that they think it's ok, normal and make any old excuse for it. If it's your opinion that I have a "billy big bollox" attitude in being cheesed off to not pick a single point off Yeovil, Newport, FGR, Stevenage, Oldham and Bury, then god help our club and god help your miniscule expectations. It's like you've walked in on six blokes having a go on your missus for the upteenth time and for the upteenth time you immediately look for excuses to prove that they've got every right to. As you've brought bollox up, it's maybe time you should grow a pair and start demanding more off our club rather than just trotting out the Accrington line which I'm sure you'll be using that and maybe Leicester too to justify abject failure from a club that should on the balance of probabilities be doing better than it is at least more than once in the past twenty seasons ..

You really need a reassessment of were we are as a football club.

You keep mentioning Yeovil, Newport, FGR, Stevenage, Oldham and Bury as if all we need to do is turn up to beat these clubs. Yeovil, Stevenege, Oldham and Bury were all playing League One while we were non-league. We all know about FGR and their owner and Newport are just a much better run club than we are and have been back in the League longer than we have. All these clubs have good reason to think they have overtaken us. You need to move out of the 80's/90's.

It will take us quite awhile to get back to anywhere near we used to be. This is made much much harder by probably one of the poorest boards in the football league pyramid and a Chairman (in everything but name) who either doesn't have the faintest idea of how to run a football club or has given up caring. If we go down to non-league again, it will be because we are run like a non-league club (and many of them are run better).

Some of us realise this and have altered our expectations accordingly. We don't like defeat anymore than yourself but don't expect all this to be fixed overnight. I can't see us rebuilding as a football club until we are either in a new stadium or someone replaces Fenty and it may well need both things to happen.