If Harry Clifton wasn't one of our own....

...would he be in the first eleven (any position)?

I doubt Jolley is playing him just because he is a local lad, so i don't know why you ask the question. Seems when JJ or Dixon are not playing, someone has to be scapegoated. Clifton's turn today then.

Unnecessary thread he's a rookie pro playing where he's being told to play. That doesn't absolve him of criticism but does he really need a thread dedicated to it?

Playing the lad at right wing back and then left wing doesnt help.

He is a centre midfielder so until he gets a run there then imo its only fair to have a proper opinion on him then.

Genuinely interested...Are you suggesting that Jolley sees Clifton being local as a factor in his team selection above maybe ability?

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

...would he be in the first eleven (any position)?

What a stupid comment, he’s more than good enough and should be moved to a more central offensive position

Pointless question. He is, and he is.

Dont think for one minute you can blame Clifton,,, Bad enough for a seasoned pro to play in the wrong position let alone a young inexperienced lad, Its the managers fault,, 1 for asking hum to play out of position  and  2  for not getting the right players in

I seem to recall Jolley praised Clifton's fitness levels during pre-season? Obviously thinks that this fitness combined with his willingness to get stuck in and work his socks off can help him to cover other positions. I'm sure it's just a temporary thing and, longer-term ought to be OK for Clifton's development - providing he doesn't get saddled with the 'utility player' tag.

Quoted from ginnywings

I doubt Jolley is playing him just because he is a local lad, so i don't know why you ask the question. Seems when JJ or Dixon are not playing, someone has to be scapegoated. Clifton's turn today then.

Question is whether he’s good enough to get picked in his best position. If he isn’t then Jolly shouldn’t pick him out of position just to get him on the pitch.

I don't think Harry should be playing out wide in all but emergency situations. Personally, I would select him ahead of Mitch Rose. I don't see why Jolley thinks he is a winger / wing back.

What a shite thread. He’s played less than 20 games and has had some really good ones. He’s our brightest home grown product for years and needs time to develop.
This thread is a toilet!

Wow what a bunch of Velocitators'

I wasn't looking for a scapegoat and never do.

And a genuine answer to your genuine question is if he is playing out of position as many point out then does he warrant a place in the middle of the park in front of the likes of Rose. Welch. Wooly, etc.

I was asking for opinions nothing else.

We're all disappointed we lost ffs😁

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Question is whether he’s good enough to get picked in his best position. If he isn’t then Jolly shouldn’t pick him out of position just to get him on the pitch.

Agree with this.

I don’t think Harry being a local lad comes into his selection at all, Jolley clearly sees something in him, and there’s no doubt he’ll turn into a good player. Having said that he’s not in great form at the minute and for me there are better players available, he needs taking out of the firing line for a few weeks in my opinion.

No, he's rubbish

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

...would he be in the first eleven (any position)?

Did you watch the match today, there were worse Town players than him.

Clifton has been poor, but shunting him out wide has been a poor piece of management from Jolley. We’ve seen time and time again, he’s not a utility player, and playing out wide or in defence isn’t his game.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Did you watch the match today, there were worse Town players than him.

They were all playing out of position too.

Judge him in his preferred position , I know this kid he’s not a wing back or a winger he’s a offensive centre mid. Stay with him

The spotlight should be on the more senior pro's who aren't delivering what they are being paid for.

Yeah like Woolford and Collins although Clifton is very weak out wide.

What a Bollox thread - Harry is a good young player in his first season as a first team player, currently being asked to play in unfamiliar positions, but still gives his all.

Get off his back FFS

Quoted from Marinerz93

The spotlight should be on the more senior pro's who aren't delivering what they are being paid for.

Agree , although a lot of them were been played out of position too,

Jolley thinks too much and is the complete opposite to Slade

BUT

At the moment there is not a lot to choose between a team Slade put out and one Jolley does.

Quoted from fishboyUTM

I don't think Harry should be playing out wide in all but emergency situations. Personally, I would select him ahead of Mitch Rose. I don't see why Jolley thinks he is a winger / wing back.

No way, Rose is twice the player Clifton is.

Quoted from 123614

No way, Rose is twice the player Clifton is.

Rose would play for England if the aim of the game was to pass the ball backwards.

Quoted from fishboyUTM

I don't think Harry should be playing out wide in all but emergency situations. Personally, I would select him ahead of Mitch Rose. I don't see why Jolley thinks he is a winger / wing back.

Maybe because he sees him every training session and believes he can play that role.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

They were all playing out of position too.

How many were actually " playing out of position " ? The back four and Macca were playing in either their customary or comfortable "positions".

That's 5 out of eleven. Rose and Woolford were also in accustomed roles. That only leaves 4 and seeing as two of those were strikers playing as strikers then it's hard to put yesterdays result on players being out of position. The final line about yesterday was that a lot of players weren't doing what they can do- poor performances from players who can do better.

Awful thread. Numpty.

Clifton played wide against Notts County last season didn’t he? And he had a good game? So why was he bad yesterday (a several other games where he’s played in his preferred position)?

Quoted from 123614

No way, Rose is twice the player Clifton is.

No coincidence rose tends to play for teams at the wrong end of the table just not a fan at all , and I would wager Clifton’s career will be better much better.  

Firstly, no way would any manager play someone just cos they are local - professionals don;t behave like that
It's a hard headed business

Wider point

IMO you cannot play a midfield of Clifton Hess Welsh Rose
Too many central midfielders
Too many workmanlike players
Little craft or guile
No natural wide men

One of the big issues with modern day football is the scrapping of reserve leagues - that was the natural home for developing players like Clifton
I suspect they've been ditched cos of finances?
It seems that you either play Clifton, A Rose, Wright etc at the sharp end (league) or farm players like the last two on loan - they need tough, competitive games out of the spotlight where he can develop.

Clifton is a nailed on squad player for me - and as with any young lad he'll be inconsistent so it's important they are managed well

I'd have him ahead of Rose all day long, a player I have never warmed to - but Jolley seems to rate him

I suspect it will sort itself anyway in next 5-7 games with Pringle, Thomas and poss Embleton becoming first team players

That will surely mean Clifton, Rose, Woolford being benched

IMO with Welsh sitting deep and Hess being all action you can afford to have 4 attack minded forward players who will still work hard

Quoted from devs

Firstly, no way would any manager play someone just cos they are local - professionals don;t behave like that
It's a hard headed business

Wider point

IMO you cannot play a midfield of Clifton Hess Welsh Rose
Too many central midfielders
Too many workmanlike players
Little craft or guile
No natural wide men

One of the big issues with modern day football is the scrapping of reserve leagues - that was the natural home for developing players like Clifton
I suspect they've been ditched cos of finances?
It seems that you either play Clifton, A Rose, Wright etc at the sharp end (league) or farm players like the last two on loan - they need tough, competitive games out of the spotlight where he can develop.

Clifton is a nailed on squad player for me - and as with any young lad he'll be inconsistent so it's important they are managed well

I'd have him ahead of Rose all day long, a player I have never warmed to - but Jolley seems to rate him

I suspect it will sort itself anyway in next 5-7 games with Pringle, Thomas and poss Embleton becoming first team players

That will surely mean Clifton, Rose, Woolford being benched

IMO with Welsh sitting deep and Hess being all action you can afford to have 4 attack minded forward players who will still work hard

I could not agree more devs.
Certainly to many workmanlike, similar players in the team.
Harry has a great footballing brain and when my son played in the same team as Harry both for the District (under Mike Brolly) and for their regular Sunday team my lad played just in front of Harry and they had a great understanding of each others game and created and scored goals for fun.
It would be great to see him in centre midfield linking up with Hess but they need game time together which I can't see happening and Harry becoming more of a squad player/impact sub.
And like devs commented we have no natural wide men.
Oh for a team playing 4-4-2 with two central midfielders akin to Cockerill and Cunnington and two natural wingers such as Emson and Gilbert. If only.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Rose would play for England if the aim of the game was to pass the ball backwards.

And to get caught out of position every time the ball's anywhere near him leading to lunging tackles and about four red cards a season.

In all honesty I don’t think he has been good enough he’s contributed very little to the team in terms of goals and assists if any ? I do agree with people about him being played out of position though which I think is totally wrong but would he get in the centre Midfield in this current team with welsh hessy rose I’m not so sure,he does have energy to track back help out and does a steady job but in regards to helping us score goals create chances and win games I have not seen much from him YET it’s not a dig at the lad by any means and I hope he does come good and I think he will but I’m still unsure whether he’s fully ready yet UTM

Rose was the only one capable of holding the ball under pressure and playing a pass yesterday. Maybe he played it back a few times, but there were statues in front of him constantly. In terms of clifton, I'm not sure he is good enough, as much as I'd like him to be. Beyond endeavour, I'm not sure anyone could pick a strong attribute of his. Of course, he has been playing out of position, but that hasn't stopped Hooper vetting criticism, rightly so too.

Mariner93er - Hooper is being played wide left of a front 3, that is more his proper position than striker. He may not be playing well there but it's an improvement on his performances as a striker last season.

You can't read anything into his performances as a striker last season considering it was under Slade. But like I said, it's fair to criticise Hooper because he still hasn't been good enough. But realistically, neither has Clifton. He's got some developing to do before he can make an impact on the team.

I think as a homegrown talent, Clifton is probably protected from criticism a little.  We, as football fans, are incredibly fickle.  Woolford has gone from a donkey to brilliant back to a donkey in a matter of weeks.

Clifton has struggled this season in patches, because he's played 5/6 positions already.  He won't develop if he's shunted here, there and everywhere.  He did a very good job for us last season in that advanced right-wing position but he had an in-form Reece Hall-Johnson behind him and I think then the very capable Ben Davies on occasions. This season he's had Harry Davis who, whilst appearing to know where to play when at right-back, technically isn't capable of playing there.   In the centre Clifton looked fine.  With him, Hessenthaler and Welsh we looked at our best.  

Rose has improved since a year ago but I don't think we can afford to play him and Welsh together, it's too negative and leaves Hessenthaler trying to be the attacking one, which isn't really his game.  Clifton is the only central midfielder we have (having not seen the two loan lads yet) who I would class as an attacking midfield.  He has to play centrally, even more so when we're opting for a single man up top.

I think Clifton is probably suffering from his versatility and willingness to do a job for the club wherever he is asked. He looked at his best in central midfield when we played Lincoln, and that is where he will end up one day. Of course, he will need to be better than the other options we have in that position to play there regularly, but let's not forget, he has only played about a dozen games for us and had a loan spell at Grantham. He's still developing.

Some interesting debate on here surrounding young Mr Clifton.

Hey for me, whilst it would be really lovely to produce a young local player that goes on to have a super career with us, or is sold for a Kings ransom, I am probably very realistic in my view of that prospect.

Good luck to him and I hope he develops, grows and prospers as a superb pro footballer. But ya know what? There is every possibility that he won't, and that he becomes one of the 99.25% of young footballers that have been at professional football club academies, that do not go on to have successful or sustainable careers as a professional footballer.

For now though, I am satisfied that we have a manager in place that is at least giving him his opportunity as a professional footballer, and is giving him game time as well as experience in playing in different positions, because he just might make it.

I think it is important to realise the relevance of Clifton being given opportunity to play in different positions to his more customary position too. Because, even though he has been coached and developed in one position for the majority of his young life, there is nothing to say that is where is future might be. There are many instances of top players in certain positions that were not ever considered for those roles and responsibilities initially. But at some stage, a coach or manager saw a quality in them, perhaps in training, that made them think they have something to bring to a different position. Probably the sign of a great coach who is prepared to put his own reputation on the line whilst experimenting with a player on his coaching journey.  

That could be argued with regards Jolley suggesting in the summer that Clifton could be a right wing-back as he has the attributes to do so.  I actually agree with Jolley on this, I think the team benefits from Clifton in a central role but he certainly could well develop into a better wing-back than a midfielder.

However, having him play 4 or 5 positions in only a few more games isn't the same as identifying a player having a flair for a different position than his usual one. Far from it.  It screams of Clifton having to fill in where we have gaps. That's not fair on any player, least of all one who is barely out of double figures of league games.  He was lost on Saturday, not because he's a bad footballer but because he was asked to play completely out of position.

I'm not sure what the obsession is with young players needing to play utility roles.  Is it just our club or does every other club do it too?