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Square pegs, round holes

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fishboyUTM
September 8, 2018, 5:07pm
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We've Davis playing at right wing back when he's a centre back, Clifton somehow for reasons I cannot begin to comprehend playing on the left wing, Woolford on his wrong side and having to cut inside while Charles Vernam sits on the bench. We've Jordan Cook who is a clever player on his own up front at 5'8 battling centre 6 feet plus centre backs after triangle football at the back followed by a hoof in his general direction. It's madness, I don't know why the manager brings his own players in then chooses a formation that isn't suited to his squad. If you are to play 4-3-3 or a variation of it, you must have a target man at the top to hold it up and bring the others into play.

I do think we have good individual players, but little out wide. We don't have proper wing backs, nor do we have proper wide players in the top three. The manager has to be called into question.

Can Pringle make a diiference wide left? The lad from Sunderland? Then Vernam out wide? I don't want to see Harry Clifton out wide again, I've no idea why Jolley thinks he can play there.
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sonofmadeleymariner
September 8, 2018, 5:13pm
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I think 433 will work better with Thomas to hold the ball up with Cook and Vernam running round him,  Rose, Hessenthalaaaaaaaa and Embelton making up the mudfield three and Fox, Davis/Famewo Whitmoore and Hendrie making up the back 4. I think we have the pieces to play the formation however a series of injuries and suspencions are stopping us playing the right combination all at once.


I don't mind Roy Keane making £60,000 a week. I was making the same when I was playing. The only difference was I was printing my own - Mickey Thomas

The area you are trying to protect at corners is the goal - Chris Kamara

I once said Gazza's IQ was less than his shirt number and he asked me: What's an IQ? - George Best
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jonnyboy82
September 8, 2018, 5:15pm
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Atm its like he honestly doesnt know what to do and is just sending a team out .


GTFC
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Maringer
September 8, 2018, 5:29pm
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Didn't see it today, but should note that Thomas isn't a target man type of player. Watch his goals from last season and he's generally running into space or following up in the box.

The way in which Jolley is chopping and changing formation isn't a good sign, especially when we don't have the players to fit into half of the roles.

Of you're struggling, a conservative formation with players in their usual positions is generally a good place to start rather than looking for something weird and wonderful.
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Bigdog
September 8, 2018, 6:45pm
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Quoted from fishboyUTM
We've Davis playing at right wing back when he's a centre back, Clifton somehow for reasons I cannot begin to comprehend playing on the left wing, Woolford on his wrong side and having to cut inside while Charles Vernam sits on the bench. We've Jordan Cook who is a clever player on his own up front at 5'8 battling centre 6 feet plus centre backs after triangle football at the back followed by a hoof in his general direction. It's madness, I don't know why the manager brings his own players in then chooses a formation that isn't suited to his squad. If you are to play 4-3-3 or a variation of it, you must have a target man at the top to hold it up and bring the others into play.

I do think we have good individual players, but little out wide. We don't have proper wing backs, nor do we have proper wide players in the top three. The manager has to be called into question.

Can Pringle make a diiference wide left? The lad from Sunderland? Then Vernam out wide? I don't want to see Harry Clifton out wide again, I've no idea why Jolley thinks he can play there.


Davis is not playing right wing back, he's playing right back a position he has done quite often in his career and actually done ok there this season when asked..

Clifton is not good or strong enough full stop at this point in his career..

Woolford can play on the right, like Mahrez, Salah and others, did ok against Lincoln in that position didn't he? The problem with Woolford is that he's been crapp in every other game he's played this season. I've noticed he can't wait to get rid of the ball if a defender is up his behind, not brave enough on the ball unless he's facing the defender..

This target man bollox, Firmino for Liverpool and Aguero for Man City, works for them. We just need to play better and more effective one and two touch football and set up with three attacking players in a 4-3-3 not one in a 4-5-1..

Hopefully Pringle, Thomas and Embleton will make a difference, because at the minute, I can't get my head around what Jolley is trying to do. He said at the end of last season that we would be playing on the front foot with more pace and better fitness levels. Where the fook are they?

Got a lot more to say, but saving it for the "Just Back" thread..

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drbell
September 8, 2018, 8:34pm
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Having only seen the MK Don's game, I'm clearly not in an informed position to comment on performances, but from a player selection point of view, I feel like MJ may be getting unfairly treated.

A theory: MJ probably has 2 or 3 shapes he prefers, and is planning to play. If we assume it's true he has at least 2 players from Sweden(or elsewhere) he has lined up for January, plus is missing 2 or 3 of his best 11 through injury, fitness and suspension, he is a fair few players down. If he is here for the long term, would anyone here really advocate playing a different formation with different tactics to suit the current 11, rather than continuing to drill his preferences into the players. It will take time to get his ideas over, and he shouldn't be delaying that further. That's madness in my mind. I think in that situation most people would choose the lesser evil of playing a few players 'out of position' to help the rest of the team adjust to his ways and allow new players to slot in quickly and improve us. That's the long term view.

I also feel that had we taken a couple of chances against mk dons and Lincoln when we were on top and we had 3 wins and 4 more points, with all the same performances, would anyone be asking this question? And let's remember they were 2 of the top sides.

Regardless, (and this may be easy for me to say if the performances have been anywhere near as bad as they were reported to be on the opening day) any talk of a change of manager any time soon is crazy. Give him 18 months, and then judge. There will be highs and lows as he and the players learn and improve. This might just  be our one chance to have a really top manager in charge, we just got him very early in his career.

I'm not saying I'm not surprised, or concerned, but let's accept he is here to stay, and do what we can to help.
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GrimRob
September 8, 2018, 9:15pm

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There's no guarantee that two players from Sweden can be enticed here, and our league position is hardly going to get them busting a gut to play at BP. I can't believe the players can't learn a different system as and when its needed (I am sure they've all played the main variations anyway). Surely we have to play a system that suits the players we have NOW, not what the opposition have, or what we'd like to have in 3 months time?

Also, we don't have a goal scorer. Has anyone in our squad EVER scored 20 goals a season in senior football? I am sure we've tried to get lots of people, but maybe we should lower our sights a bit if we are trying to sign players who don't want to come here.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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toontown
September 9, 2018, 10:24am
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Davis isn't being played out of position, he has played right back before and that is what he is being played as now - he isn't even playing as a wing back so I don't know where u got that from!
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fishboyUTM
September 9, 2018, 10:43am
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Quoted from toontown
Davis isn't being played out of position, he has played right back before and that is what he is being played as now - he isn't even playing as a wing back so I don't know where u got that from!


Fair one. I gather that now.
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rancido
September 9, 2018, 10:45am

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I would have thought that with the players unavailable due to injury or suspension then there may well be a bit of " square pegs, round holes". IMO the biggest problem seems to be an inability to do the basic things that you expect professional footballers at this level should be doing all the time. How many times have we seen short passes or indeed other kind of passes going astray? Passes with not enough "weight" to reach the intended target ( yesterdays first goal arose from such a situation ). Defensive headers going straight to one of their players? Losing the ball in possession when a pass was a much better option. Judging by MJ's post match interview I get the impression that he is as equally exasperated by players inability to do the basics and follow the roles he gives them.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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fishboyUTM
September 9, 2018, 11:04am
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Quoted from rancido
I would have thought that with the players unavailable due to injury or suspension then there may well be a bit of " square pegs, round holes". IMO the biggest problem seems to be an inability to do the basic things that you expect professional footballers at this level should be doing all the time. How many times have we seen short passes or indeed other kind of passes going astray? Passes with not enough "weight" to reach the intended target ( yesterdays first goal arose from such a situation ). Defensive headers going straight to one of their players? Losing the ball in possession when a pass was a much better option. Judging by MJ's post match interview I get the impression that he is as equally exasperated by players inability to do the basics and follow the roles he gives them.


Agree completely. I felt all four goals yesterday were preventable by basic defending. For example the first goal, the lad was not in a particularly dangerous position out wide on our right hand side. He was allowed to cut inside, advance on goal and finish. We didn't learn anything as he did exactly the same for his second goal. Bury weren't great at all and smashed us 4-0!

They allowed us possession, we knocked it around in little triangles in our own half, looked nice but got us absolutely nowhere before lumping it up to poor Cook who was hopelessly overpowered by the centre backs.

I do think we have some good players, but the longer we keep losing the more their confidence will drop and we will be in a rut again. Where possible, let's play our players in their proper positions, we need a settled formation and a settled side as we don't have any partnerships developing all over the pitch.
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