Just Back

Well...
First 60 mins...Sunderland a cut above in general play but lacked a real cutting edge. Collins, Whitmore and Famewo held a decent back line, Whitmore impressed more than his last outing, decent in the air and read and swept across where required.
The formation with Fox and Clifton as wing backs didnt necessarily help us going forward, Fox i thought was poor, Clifton played well but just not  wing back, limited when pushing forward but at least he tried.
The midfield trio of Rose , Woolford and Welsh limited, Welsh just isnt mobile, doesnt carry the ball, plays it the way he is facing and has zero speed, marks space really well but not involved enough. Woolford, again not quick, not a tackler, not an aeriel threat..broke forward on a couple of occassions but after 20 yds was running out of steam. Rose the only one who looked strong enough and moved the ball intelligently, linked in with Hooper and Cook
Cook and Hooper worked hard, Hooper is looking pretty confident and happy and they did at least look like they are building a partnership, promising.  
Looked like a 0-0 half despite some half chances, neither keeper really worked....but Fox caught napping and allowed a man to ghost in to score, possibly quesions over Macca as the ball was in the 6 yd box when their guy headed it in.  At the other end their keeper took just about every ball into the box to snuff out any chance of a headed chance.

On 60 mins wholesale changes, 9 subs, took a while for me to figure out who was who, not sure i have yet   ... Midfield trio of  16 Hessentahler ? 17 Flanagan ?  18 O hanlan ?  definately more on the front foot, not so impressed with 18, 17 very busy,covered the round well, forward thinking and some nice passing 16 tidy on the ball, forward thinking mobile . 17/16 with Rose would maybe make a good unit.

Robles worked hard but nothing more, A Rose looks very quick , a nice touch or two but didnt get much to work with..raw as described by MJ..
Dixon and Hall Johnson didnt really improve the wing back formation....Davis didnt particularly keep tabs on him. Max Wright just a brief cameo.

All in all, Hooper, Cook, Rose, Collins, Whitmore and Famewo as the spine looked upto it out of the starting 10 outfield, Flanagan, Hesentahler looked the brightest of the subs...Rose has some potential but we have had a few quick raw players in recent seasons which havnt quite worked, maybe this time it will given a little time and careful handling.

Worries - Welsh, Woolford, Fox and lack of real wing backs to play this formation. Other than Hooper and Cook front line looks light.  Dixon i would maybe use as centre half as opposed to wing back, he looked more at home there last time out.. Famewo looked much more comfortable on the ball and has some pace so could maybe be better suited to the wing back position.  Overall lack of pace also a worry.

UTM

Oh the Cowleys were there on a spying mission....the initialed tracksuit tops didnt exactly hide their identity  

WOW You seem to be a great judge of player after 2 pre season games. Your worried about players this early? give your head a wobble mate. I do what I always do and judge players after at least 10 full season games. Players take time to adapt and gell etc. Pre season is just for Fitness and gelling etc. You cant judge players at this early stage. Give them a chance.

Quoted from The Singing Fisherman

WOW You seem to be a great judge of player after 2 pre season games. Your worried about players this early? give your head a wobble mate. I do what I always do and judge players after at least 10 full season games. Players take time to adapt and gell etc. Pre season is just for Fitness and gelling etc. You cant judge players at this early stage. Give them a chance.

Sometimes you just dont need time to judge  

Always happy to nail my colours to the mast early doors.

Famewo looks very handy. Big strong and mobile and not afraid to have the ball even when under pressure so looks a good prospect at centre half. Rest of 1st half was impressed by clifton and Mitch Rose and team deserved to be level at half time.
Second half a raft of changes of which akheem Rose showed glimpses of the skill and pace he possesses but like Jolley says hes still very raw and not ready yet. Of the 2 trialists the only one that showed anything was the ginger lad who again looked comfortable on the ball and came and asked for posession on many occasions.
Dont think we are going to be playing a system that suits Paul Dixon and so would like to see us sign Ali Koiki for that left wing back role. Harry Clifton again showed his flexibilty to play in a number of positions and now looks the part in the mans game leaving the youth behind.
Overall a tight and entertaining game against a team that should still be in the premier league.

Utmm

Pre season is not the time to judge. When they are more match sharp and have played with each other more and had that time to gell and know each others attributes. That is the time to judge. I truly think after a few full season games your judgements will change. UTM

Managed to sit in my new STH seat and pleased with the view. Promising start from Famewo and Hooper centrally. Liked the look of the lad with red hair in midfield. Hope gets another chance. Our system is crying out for Vernam or someone like him to link midfield and attack. A Rose is an excellent prospect.

Quoted from moosey_club

The formation with Fox and Clifton as wing backs didnt necessarily help us going forward, Fox i thought was poor, Clifton played well but just not  wing back, limited when pushing forward but at least he tried.

Completely disagree. Fox was making runs and getting into space constantly and was rarely utilized. There were periods of the game where he was completely unmarked and no one passed it to him. Granted he made a mistake which led to the goal, but apart from that, I thought he fit into the role fairly well.

Excellent : Famewo, M.Rose, Hooper, Collins, Hess

Decent : Whitmore, Clifton, Davis, A.Rose, Ginger trialist

OK: Woolford, Welsh, Cook, RHJ, Dixon, Robles, Macca

Poor: Fox, Brunette trialist

Wright and Russell didn’t get to do too much.

It’s a rather broad way of looking at it but it’s pre-season, you can’t look too much into these games. Thought Sunderland were faster and just better footballers but didn’t trouble us much.

I think we’ll be alright defensively this season, it’s conpact and the defenders aren’t running through treacle. Robles showed some decent touches and Hooper, especially out wide again. Akheem Rose is seriously quick. Clifton did well out of position I thought. Hessenthaler seems like a really intelligent footballer.

Does anyone else worry about playing 3-5-2? We don’t have the players to play it unless something seriously changes with the squad.

On the left side Dixon is not mobile enough or good  enough to play left wing back. I like Fox but he isn’t mobile enough in my opinion to cover the entire left side properly on his own.

On the right side we’ve got Clifton who is a youngster and being played out of position. That isn’t to to take away from the fact that I rate him and think he’ll be a good player but it’s a lot to ask a player when he’s first breaking through to be playing out of position and to cover the right side on their own. RHJ is decent but is he good enough to offer the necessary attacking threat for that side on his own? I’m not so sure.

Wing back is a very specific position and needs some key attributes in place for a player to perform that role well. Right now I don’t think any of our options in those positions have enough of the key attributes. And when you think that playing with wing backs means they’re your only wide options, I think we’re seriously limiting ourselves from the off playing this formation with the players at our disposal.

Not worried at all because its pre-season and confident Jolley will get the players playing well in any formation once they have had time to gell etc. And still 2-3 players left to bring in plus the lad  from Burnley he's looking to bring in on loan to play wing back. Think once the season is in full flow you will see everything fall into place. Its only early doors at the mo

IF we could get the hard working target man then we may be better with 4-5-1 similar to how we finished last season.

The current 3-5-1 which became a 5-3-1 last night, may be more suited to away games in a 'role a dope' formation but would like us to show more willingness to get players high and wide to attack teams when at home.

We will see what transpires over next couple of weeks

UTM

Quoted from Cloudy

IF we could get the hard working target man then we may be better with 4-5-1 similar to how we finished last season.

The current 3-5-1 which became a 5-3-1 last night, may be more suited to away games in a 'role a dope' formation but would like us to show more willingness to get players high and wide to attack teams when at home.

We will see what transpires over next couple of weeks

UTM

If we are going to play with 10 men we have no chance.

Just to clarify, pre season games mean no more than fitness, players shouldnt be judged until at the earliest the middle of September.

If Sunderland try to play it around at the back through their no.5 like last night they will be closed down and exposed. With two front men we should have been able to do that more than we did. Hopefully Hooper and Cook won't allow League 2 defenders to take those liberties.

Quoted from Croxton

If Sunderland try to play it around at the back through their no.5 like last night they will be closed down and exposed. With two front men we should have been able to do that more than we did. Hopefully Hooper and Cook won't allow League 2 defenders to take those liberties.

With 5 across the back ( and holding midfield players) the two up front dont have the support to close down the opposition defenders. The front two tried to close down defenders but it was extremely easy to play around them because they didnt have others suporting them and closing down full backs and midfield players

Quoted from barralad

If we are going to play with 10 men we have no chance.

It's what happens when they have cookery lessons in school instead of maths.

Best way for me to see the development of this side is to compare it to two points; 1) when Jolley first arrived and 2) the end of last season.

1st reference point is to see how we've come along under Jolley.  2nd is to see how we compare to the team that Jolley has decided he needs to evolve (which I don't think any of us disagree is the right thing to do).

From the side that Jolley inherited then.  Much more organised.  Far, far more solid and disciplined in defence.  Hold their shape better, have some notion of where other players should be when trying to pick out passes, distribution is faster and with much more intent.  Important to note that the side Jolley inherited couldn't have got much worse.

From the side that ended last season - Similar levels of organisation and discipline, especially in defence.  Collins organised very well last night with the two younger lads either side of him giving a nice balance of pace and experience.  The players recognised the shape they were in and I didn't really pick up much confusion on who was playing where etc.  That said the players don't look totally comfortable in this system.   Fox and Clifton started at wing-back but neither look a wing-back.  Fox looks to me like a player who needs three or four games before he gets in his stride but even then I'm not sure he's a wing-back.  Don't get me wrong, I think he was excellent as an attack minded full-back who makes runs from deep, but that's not a wing-back.  Clifton on the other side can do a job as a wing-back but again it's not his game.  His energy and physical attributes mean he'll get away with playing there but I would much rather see him in the middle.

Tamewo was tidy on the ball and looks very much a modern defender, he wants to play rather than just clear it.  Reminded me a bit of Toto actually in that sense.

In midfield Welsh looks a little off the pace.  Reads the game well but was slow off the mark a couple of times last night, sure that'll come with game time.  Rose has improved under Jolley, no doubting that, I'm just not sure what type of role he would be best in.  A more defensive role is where we've a fair bit of cover but I don't think Rose's natural game is to go beyond strikers with his runs or pick people out with a range of passing.  If he can continue to improve his fitness levels, I think he would be an effective Kante sort for us, getting in to the opposition all over the pitch, breaking things up and winning back possession.  Woolford was and is very tidy but as was the problem last season, he's playing in a midfield with little pace or attacking intent.  If it's a 3 man midfield you need at least one of those guys to be pushing forward and/or creating things.  A trio of Rose/Woolford/Welsh is not going to have that.  Hessenthaler looked very comfortable on the ball when he came on and looked to move things quicker than what the lads in the first half did, again he doesn't look the type who will push forward.  

The two trialists didn't really have much of a chance to impress.  Most seemed more impressed with the lad from Walsall but I thought the ex-Liverpool lad, O'Hanlon, looked a better bet.  Moved the ball well and with intent (maybe lacking a bit of fitness though) whereas Flanagan was an eager runner but seemed to lack a bit of know-how where and when to run.  Difficult to judge either on those circumstances.

Up top Cook and Hooper showed enough to suggest there's a potential partnership there.  Cook wants to drop into the gap between attack and midfield, which is useful as our midfield don't push into that space.  He came short quite a lot and was comfortable in spinning with the ball to bring others into play, including Hooper.  However when he did come short it just left Hooper isolated as none of the midfield five had pushed forward in support.  I think on one occasion Clifton managed to get behind his fullback.  

Second half the mass changes meant the midfield had a very experimental feel to it.  Hall-Johnson added a bit more pace on the flank and is probably the best suited to playing as a wing-back in the squad.  Dixon on the other side is not capable of that role, that's not a slur on the lad it's just not his game at all.  

Akheem Rose looks even quicker than last season but he has no idea where to run or when to run.  Some brilliant raw ingredients there but we shouldn't get carried away with him.  He needs a lot of developing.  

All in, it's still a work in progress. I think we'll be difficult to beat but I've not seen the intensity that served us well in the final games of last season.  That could be as players get used to the new system or that it's simply pre-season.  For my money we need an athletic striker and a midfielder who can step into that No 10 role.  Solely based on the two games we've played so far, I wouldn't object to putting Cook at the top of that midfield trio and having someone else operating up top with Hooper.

Agree with DHM on most of that with the exception of the two triallists. The 'lad with the silly haircut' didnt look a footballer in any shape or form to me

Bear in mind our attacking midfield option has an ACL injury.

Quoted from oldun

Bear in mind our attacking midfield option has an ACL injury.

eggs in 1 basket

Is Clifton being played out of position? Does he even have a position yet?

Early days for him and the new squad, so i wouldn't read too much into this game, or subsequent games. My philosophy is to give it a dozen games into the season and then see where we are at.

Think we just experiented with Clifton last night. He may turn out to be the attacking minded centre mid we are looking for since weve lost whitehouse. He certaibly now seems to have the engine to get up and down the pitch. Can certainly see hall-johnson starting as our 1st choice right wing back and would like to see us bring in Ali Koiki for tge other side.
Last night was further evidence that we are 2/3 players short. Especially up front

I think Clifton's natural position is central midfield.  I think the previous concerns about him, under previous managers, was how he would cope physically.  He's since filled out so that isn't as much of an issue.

Last season he did a job out wide but he's not a natural winger.  Jolley said at some point this summer that he sees Clifton moving into a central role longer term.  How I see it is that he's the only central midfielder we've got who could drive forward from a central role, someone who will go beyond the front two.   I get the thinking in putting him in a wingback role.  He's got energy to burn, he's capable of knocking the ball past his man and run onto it, he can put a decent cross but most importantly he's disciplined.     I think Jolley has to weigh up the options though, in Reece Hall-Johnson we have someone who's very capable of doing a job down the right and we need Clifton's attributes centrally, attributes no-one else has in that role.  

Who is Famewo?

Quoted from oldun

Who is Famewo?

Centre back signed on a season long loan from Luton.

Quoted from Stew0_0

Think we just experiented with Clifton last night. He may turn out to be the attacking minded centre mid we are looking for since weve lost whitehouse. He certaibly now seems to have the engine to get up and down the pitch. Can certainly see hall-johnson starting as our 1st choice right wing back and would like to see us bring in Ali Koiki for tge other side.
Last night was further evidence that we are 2/3 players short. Especially up front

Maybe we are but I'm pretty sure the manager knows that too. My main concern would be a signing that was squad not team.

Quoted from ginnywings

Centre back signed on a season long loan from Luton.

Thanks Ginny, , that had not registered with me, I am not Oldun for nothing! Has Mark Lever left then?

I thought we matched Sunderland easily second half we injected more pace and was unlucky not to level it but the result was irrelevant. It gave Jolley a chance to see how we play against quality opposition.

Some good performances Woolford did well Hooper proved YET AGAIN he can play on the wing and put a good crossover,

Collins looked solid and Rose as electric pace up front our passing looked sharp.

First half they used the flanks well often overlapping to get crosses in which we dealt with well until the goal.

It was not all one way though we gave a good account of ourselves and made chances their big reserve keeper keeping a goal-bound effort away in the second half needed all his six foot plus reach and another good move with the ball breaking to us near the goal it needed a cool head to slot it in but was blasted wide.

All in all a satisfactory first outing I enjoyed it.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I think Clifton's natural position is central midfield.  I think the previous concerns about him, under previous managers, was how he would cope physically.  He's since filled out so that isn't as much of an issue.

Last season he did a job out wide but he's not a natural winger.  Jolley said at some point this summer that he sees Clifton moving into a central role longer term.  How I see it is that he's the only central midfielder we've got who could drive forward from a central role, someone who will go beyond the front two.   I get the thinking in putting him in a wingback role.  He's got energy to burn, he's capable of knocking the ball past his man and run onto it, he can put a decent cross but most importantly he's disciplined.     I think Jolley has to weigh up the options though, in Reece Hall-Johnson we have someone who's very capable of doing a job down the right and we need Clifton's attributes centrally, attributes no-one else has in that role.  

Yeah he did just that last night and the defender deliberately tripped him up as though to say show me up you little shiit lol

Quoted from ginnywings

Is Clifton being played out of position? Does he even have a position yet?

Early days for him and the new squad, so i wouldn't read too much into this game, or subsequent games. My philosophy is to give it a dozen games into the season and then see where we are at.

Always good when you read opinions on new players especially for those of us who don’t attend friendly games.  I had decided to go to Gainsborough game as drinking pals son playing for them but after making all arrangements my daughter rudely reminded me that it is my grandsons first birthday that day, my excuse for forgetting it is his first so date has no historical reference to my brain!!

Anyway wanted to agree with Ginny’s point about early days and I believe during the Q&A session MJ constantly said we are in the first stage of a process and the journey will not always be smooth so I think whilst we all hope for a top seven season it may be a bit longer before this is reality.

Personally I want the players to rekindle the pride there was playing for the club under PH, with the style of a Buckley and/or Kerr town side and the atmosphere of the McMenemy era, so despite these low expectations if we move positively against these 3 objectives I can wait another year for promotion.

3-5-2 takes time to adapt to so will wait and see how that pans out but MJ has also insisted he wants the team capable of adapting formation and playing style to suit a games requirements so may just be helping us adjust to these alternative approaches.