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England v Croatia Match Thread

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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 6:44pm Report to Moderator

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England v Croatia......     World Cup semi-final...... (who'd have thought it)

England have named the same starting XI for the third match in a row, with Jordan Henderson passed fit to line up in midfield and Raheem Sterling joining Harry Kane in attack.

England XI: Pickford, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Trippier, Henderson, Dele Alli, Lingard, Young, Sterling, Kane.

On the beer now.....C'mon England.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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golfer
July 11, 2018, 6:59pm Report to Moderator
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Just got E-Mail from grandson in France who are 1 hour ahead of us-it's 3-0 to England at half time
l
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Kris2
July 11, 2018, 7:01pm Report to Moderator

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Oh good a Turkish referee. With all the Ottoman nationalism in Turkey right now I'm sure they are our biggest fans  .


Comrade Kris2
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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 7:05pm Report to Moderator

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Get in........ dreamland  


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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Marinerdan
July 11, 2018, 7:08pm Report to Moderator

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‘Keep us shape’


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saurs vara vant, er várum,   viðr, í Grímsbœ miðjum.
Nú'r þat's más of mýrar   meginkátliga látum
branda elg á bylgjur   Bjǫrgynjar til dynja.
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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 7:49pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from golfer
Just got E-Mail from grandson in France who are 1 hour ahead of us-it's 3-0 to England at half time
l


And I believed you  



Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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Mrs Doyle
July 11, 2018, 7:56pm Report to Moderator
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Should have been 3-0 up the first half.
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 8:02pm Report to Moderator
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Let's hope we don't rue all those missed chances.

Doing my nut in the number of occasions where we end up passing backwards for Pickford to whack it forward on his weaker foot. The defenders need to deal with it themselves.
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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 8:12pm Report to Moderator

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Silly yellow by Walker  


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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Gaffer58
July 11, 2018, 8:16pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer
Let's hope we don't rue all those missed chances.

Doing my nut in the number of occasions where we end up passing backwards for Pickford to whack it forward on his weaker foot. The defenders need to deal with it themselves.


If not Pickford needs to find a man so that we keep possession, the Croats are going to really press now.
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arryarryarry
July 11, 2018, 8:22pm Report to Moderator
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A good job they look poor so far, Lingard, Alli and Sterling may as well be sat next to me.
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arryarryarry
July 11, 2018, 8:29pm Report to Moderator
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We are looking really excrement now.
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 8:30pm Report to Moderator
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Doing our best to lose this one now. Alli might as well not be on the pitch and we've started to defend like the keystone kops. If Southgate doesn't make changes, we'll lose.
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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 8:34pm Report to Moderator

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1-1 .......  the longer this goes on the better for us in theory.....they've played extra-time twice in their last two games I think and have an ageing squad.

If we get the chance Rashford could rip them apart in extra-time.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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arryarryarry
July 11, 2018, 8:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from promotion plaice

1-1 .......  the longer this goes on the better for us in theory.....they've played extra-time twice in their last two games I think and have an ageing squad.

If we get the chance Rashford could rip them apart in extra-time.


Well currently we look copulated, they are looking the more likely to score, I hope I'm wrong.
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arryarryarry
July 11, 2018, 8:45pm Report to Moderator
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How the intercourse can't Southgate see the space they are getting down their right hand side with Alli in flipping Dreamland.
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Maringer
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We've basically given up on passing the ball. We're whacking it long most of the time and we've completely lost midfield. Why isn't Southgate doing something about it?!?
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Abdul19
July 11, 2018, 8:50pm Report to Moderator

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The archetypal game of 2 halves

Extremely relieved to get to ft after that. Changed needed.


Fentys out
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Mrs Doyle
July 11, 2018, 8:54pm Report to Moderator
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We look knackered second to the ball they are pressing up front in numbers not good.
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AdamHaddock
July 11, 2018, 8:54pm Report to Moderator

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Croatia looking unsurprisingly tired now. Hopefully the energy of Rashford will make the difference
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moosey_club
July 11, 2018, 8:55pm Report to Moderator
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one of those Hurst type games....dominate first half....the opposition get a rocket and come out the better....everybody else can see it coming...but darent change cos we are winning.....everyone can see it coming......Goal !!!!  ...then make a change

Same as other games so far really...for me Kane no where near the goal...one diving header which Lovren just nicked off his head but other than that our BEST striker no where near the goal.


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Ipswin
July 11, 2018, 8:55pm Report to Moderator
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It's been the same problem from day one, just not able to score goals from open play.

One up in the first few minutes, we could and should have buried them, but if Kane doesn't get a penalty or we're not playing Tunisia we're copulated.

Just hope we can get another from a free kick or corner, I don't fancy another shoot out, reckon we'd be pushing our luck


I don't actually want to say I told you so, but, intercourse it, I did
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chaos33
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Failed to capitalise on our dominance first half and paid the price. Second best in the second half and look like we're hanging on for pens now. Need a lift to take this and a bit disappointing that we seem to have fallen back into old ways to some extent.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 9:03pm Report to Moderator
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Take off Alli and put on somebody who might actually do something. That would be a good start. He's been shite this tournament (despite his goal against Sweden) and we've effectively been playing with ten men. No saves by their keeper says a lot.

And now Dier is coming on. Fecking hell Southgate, you're taking the urine now.
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AdamHaddock
July 11, 2018, 9:09pm Report to Moderator

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Who do you want him to bring on? Scholes or Gazza?
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 9:17pm Report to Moderator
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Loftus-Cheek is a good footballer who played well in recent games. The fact that Alli has played most of this world Cup without offering anything at all is very poor on Southgate's part.

We've let them cross the ball unimpeded so many times this game, it's amazing they haven't scored more goals. How is it possible for a team with 5 defenders to let crosses come in with no attempt to block? It's ridiculous.
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Gaffer58
July 11, 2018, 9:17pm Report to Moderator
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Noticeable that now things are not quite going so well that Southgate is starting to get criticism on here. Will the same thing happen to Jolley if we don't win our first 3 league games 6-0.
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 9:18pm Report to Moderator
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I'm quite happy to criticise Southgate for sticking with his favourites when they are doing nothing to deserve their place.
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Grim74
July 11, 2018, 9:20pm Report to Moderator
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Why bring dyer on!! Southgate playing for penalties again the flipping coward, the team is crying out for lifted cheekhouse FFS


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Grim74
July 11, 2018, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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intercourse off southgate!! Anyone mention an open top bus wants flipping shooting.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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Croxton
July 11, 2018, 9:29pm Report to Moderator
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Is Kane playing with a broken rib or what? No strength all game.
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Maringer
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Sad to say, Croatia fully deserve this. They've tried to play when we were hitting, hoping and trying to hold on to the early goal.
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arryarryarry
July 11, 2018, 9:31pm Report to Moderator
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Southgate has to take the blame, picking his favourites who have hardly contributed and his failure to react when it is going wrong.
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 9:35pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Croxton
Is Kane playing with a broken rib or what? No strength all game.


Kane hasn't looked right since the Colombia game for me. Wonder if he's carrying an injury?
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bawarmy
July 11, 2018, 9:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer


Kane hasn't looked right since the Colombia game for me. Wonder if he's carrying an injury?


He played in midfield tonight. GUTTED but

Come on you mighty mariners it’s your time now,
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Grim74
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Overrated we have been very lucky since the qualifying rounds by dodging all the decent teams, we were found out tonight, once again no worthwhile shot on goal from open play. Get Shaun Dyche in now for the Euros.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. Promise a man someone else's fish and he votes Labour.
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Meza
July 11, 2018, 9:50pm Report to Moderator

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Just needed that midfielder who can run with the ball.  Far too many times the ball was played back and the long giving them pocession. Young inexperienced team and im sure they'll improve.  We had other players missing like Barkley and Lallana.  Dont rate Dier.  Im proud of them.




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golfer
July 11, 2018, 9:51pm Report to Moderator
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Southgate slipped up with substitutions-Brings on the same ones each game and Dier and Vardy again non-existent-but then we got further than  anticipated so can't really moan but could have been so different-if if if
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Abdul19
July 11, 2018, 9:56pm Report to Moderator

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Well done Croatia. Deserved the win. Obviously disappointing, but (at least) our 2nd best world cup ever is a lot to build on. Well done boys


Fentys out
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scrumble
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Quoted from arryarryarry
Southgate has to take the blame


For getting them to the semi-finals for the first time since 1990



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GrimRob
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Lost to Belgium and Croatia. A good performance against Sweden. Threw away leads to Columbia and Croatia, and almost messed up against Tunisia. We're back to the achievement levels of the 1990s but largely due to not facing much better quality opposition.


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KingstonMariner
July 11, 2018, 10:13pm Report to Moderator
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Agree Rob.

Best chance in a generation. And not even against opposition of the quality of Germany at their best and they threw it away. This game was there for the taking but they let Croatia dominate, by reverting to passing the ball back all the time putting ourselves under unnecessary pressure, then switching off. This lot should be younger and fitter, and more rested so no excuses.

I hope they learn something from it.


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Gaffer58
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It was noticeable that when we were under the cosh prior to their goal we reverted back to the old routine of Stones passing back to Pickford who booted it up for a hopeful head on. Hopefully with a bit more experience and the younger players getting a couple more years older we can play pass and move more.
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Rodley Mariner
July 11, 2018, 10:21pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Meza
Just needed that midfielder who can run with the ball.  Far too many times the ball was played back and the long giving them pocession. Young inexperienced team and im sure they'll improve.  We had other players missing like Barkley and Lallana.  Dont rate Dier.  Im proud of them.


Barkley?! Lifetime ban for that suggestion surely?
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KingstonMariner
July 11, 2018, 10:22pm Report to Moderator
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Well that's the clubs season ticket sales strategy f.ucked then.


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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 10:23pm Report to Moderator
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We got a round or two past our correct level due to the luck of the draw and fell short when our lack of quality was found out up front and in midfield. Too reliant on Kane, Rashford nowhere near at the moment and Sterling never looks like scoring for England, for all his other qualities. Vardy not suited for international football where he's not going to get the space he usually works in.

Lots of OK players, few anywhere near world class. Alli is pretty much rubbish at international level and he'll have to do one hell of a lot for England to prove otherwise for me (if he's in form which deserves selection).

The way Southgate failed to react and make a positive change when were on the back foot against Colombia and again tonight worries me for the future. I expect we'll qualify for the next Euros but I'd be surprised if we got past the quarters in that with our current approach. I hope one or two good young central midfielders emerge in the next couple of years as we can't rely on Henderson to be more than decent. Worryingly, Maguire and Stones both panicked quite bit tonight but I think they are decent footballers overall so hopefully they'll improve over the next two years. Young not an international full-back so I hope Rose has a good couple of years, Trippier lacking pace and strength. I'd prefer to see Walker at wing-back with another player in the back three if we're going to continue with the current formation. Or perhaps Alexander-Arnold?

Lingard OK, but no more than that. I hope Loftus-Cheek has a good couple of years somewhere (guessing not at Chelsea) as he is one with great potential to emerge this tournament. Also, lots of credit to Pickford who had the odd flap tonight, but can't be criticised with the ongoing panic in front of him because he's been very solid even when having to deal with endless back passes to whack clear.
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Meza
July 11, 2018, 10:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Rodley Mariner


Barkley?! Lifetime ban for that suggestion surely?


lol.  He reminded me a bit like Gazza.....always looking to attack, hopefully he'll get the game time at Chelsea and turn into a very good midfielder.




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LH
July 11, 2018, 10:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Meza


lol.  He reminded me a bit like Gazza.....always looking to attack, hopefully he'll get the game time at Chelsea and turn into a very good midfielder.


Yeah they definitely didn’t sign him just to meet homegrown quotas by signing a fairly competent English trained player.
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NorthseaMariner
July 11, 2018, 10:39pm Report to Moderator
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Hey guys, something to build on. Enjoyed the ride and look forward to the future.😎
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 10:47pm Report to Moderator
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Here's a telling statistic. If the match stats on the BBC are to be believed (and I'm guessing they are pretty accurate), we've had a total of 6 shots on target in our 3 knock-out stage games this tournament. That's one every 50 minutes, if you don't take stoppage time into account. Very poor, to say the least.
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fiveallive
July 11, 2018, 10:48pm Report to Moderator
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England need to move forward with players like Harry Winks he has fantastic passing ability like Michael Carrick, and hopefully putting his injuries behind him he should be the first name on the team sheet moving forward.

A midfield three with Henderson, Winks and Oxlaide-Chamberlain is a decent midfield moving forward.
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Maringer
July 11, 2018, 10:53pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gaffer58
It was noticeable that when we were under the cosh prior to their goal we reverted back to the old routine of Stones passing back to Pickford who booted it up for a hopeful head on. Hopefully with a bit more experience and the younger players getting a couple more years older we can play pass and move more.


This was the most disappointing thing. The much-vaunted new approach, confidence and positive attitude dissipated quickly the moment a bit of pressure was put on us. Southgate's 3-5-2(ish) formation relies on the defenders to push up and take the ball into midfield and forward. We bottled it tonight and did pretty much what GTFC do when we've struggled in recent season. Possession for possession's sake across the back is pointless if you end up lumping it forward in hope and invariably give the opposition the ball. You'd be better off chipping it into the corner for a forward to run onto or even for an opposition throw-in deep in their own half.
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ginnywings
July 11, 2018, 10:53pm Report to Moderator

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No complaints from me. Croatia just had more guile and craft in midfield as i feared they would, and if anyone deserved to get the winner it was them. Perisic was immense. Not really quick or tricky, but he powered up and down like a bulldozer all game. It's just that little step up that we can't quite bridge, and again England produce good players, but very rarely world class ones. It was a combination of good set pieces and a favourable draw that got us as far as we did, but both times we played against opposition with better quality players, we lost.

Did well, restored a bit of faith, but ultimately, not quite good enough to get those goals in open play that you need at the right times. Think the French should win it now.
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arryarryarry
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Quoted from scrumble


For getting them to the semi-finals for the first time since 1990



I would say more by luck than judgement.
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Maringer
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I'd imagine the odds on a French victory must be rather short. The difference in the way they defended their lead last night in comparison to us is night and day. I think they'll need to get an early red card for the Croats to have a chance.
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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 11:07pm Report to Moderator

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How many of us are really interested in watching the 3rd place play-off game ....Belgium v England 15:00 on Saturday......bit of an unnecessary urine take if you ask me.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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Manchester Mariner
July 11, 2018, 11:14pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from promotion plaice

How many of us are really interested in watching the 3rd place play-off game ....Belgium v England 15:00 on Saturday......bit of an unnecessary urine take if you ask me.


The 3rd/4th place game is the most depressing game in football for most folk apart from all 3 people salivating at the prospect of a rematch of England B vs. Belgium B. Let's see them throw beer over each other in fan parks in Croydon for that.

Saying that, I've still got Kane on for the golden boot so I'd appreciate a goal from him or no goals from Lukaku.


"Lovelly stuff! not my words but the words of Shakin Stevens."
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Abdul19
July 11, 2018, 11:16pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Maringer
I think they'll need to get an early red card for the Croats to have a chance.


If Mbappe AND Varane go they'll win it!


Fentys out
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Abdul19
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Quoted from Manchester Mariner


The 3rd/4th place game is the most depressing game in football apart from all 3 people salivating at the prospect of a rematch of England B vs. Belgium B. Let's see them throw beer over each other in fan parks in Croydon for that.

Saying that, I've still got Kane on for the golden boot so I'd appreciate a goal from him or no goals from Lukaku.


Yeah, can't imagine anyone wants to be involved in that. Welbeck and Batsthingy will probably both play ahead of those 2 so I'll watch purely for the comedy finishing.


Fentys out
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promotion plaice
July 11, 2018, 11:30pm Report to Moderator

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I've come to the conclusion after tonight that in my lifetime I've got more chance of seeing the Fentydome than the full England team winning anything.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
Alan Turing
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Abdul19
July 11, 2018, 11:32pm Report to Moderator

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I saw us win Le Tournoi. Anything after that is a bonus.


Fentys out
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grimsby pete
July 12, 2018, 12:02am Report to Moderator

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I saw us win in 1966 and have hopes of us winning it again before I pop my clogs,

PLUS

I hope to see Town in the championship as well.

Tonight we looked tired in the 2nd half ,

BUT

If we had took our chances in the 1st half we would have been 2 or 3 nil up,

Then it would have been them looking tired chasing the game,

Never mind we did well to go so far.


Over 31 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.

  
                            
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forza ivano
July 12, 2018, 12:19am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from ginnywings
No complaints from me. Croatia just had more guile and craft in midfield as i feared they would, and if anyone deserved to get the winner it was them. Perisic was immense. Not really quick or tricky, but he powered up and down like a bulldozer all game. It's just that little step up that we can't quite bridge, and again England produce good players, but very rarely world class ones. It was a combination of good set pieces and a favourable draw that got us as far as we did, but both times we played against opposition with better quality players, we lost.

Did well, restored a bit of faith, but ultimately, not quite good enough to get those goals in open play that you need at the right times. Think the French should win it now.


Thank you ginny for a well balanced perspective. I agree totally but would like to add 1 or 2 or ten ! points
We've had world beating 30 minutes v Tunisia Colombia n Croatia. How do we build on that?
Far better performance overall than many people believed
Pickford trip pier Kane  maguire etc will be far better players, playing for far better teams in 2/4 years time
Many parallels with the Belgium France game last night where Belgium threatened early n could've been out of sight before the other team gradually exerted their control n influence and came out on top.
Whichever team won tonight will really really struggle v France
Croatia played as well as they could've hoped for.they are an excellent team, that as usual in the uk media, is vastly underrated. Just because you haven't played or succeeded in the premiership doesn't make you a bad player. The movement for the 2 goals plus the excellence of atleti's right back proves that.
Plus they worked so hard to close us down. V disappointed at the reversion to long ball Shiite but their hard work forced us to do it.
We have under 17,19,20 n 21 champs. We are only going to get better.
This is the best footballing England team I've seen in 30 years with everyone comfortable on the ball.
Everyone manager players coaches will learn from this and we will come back better n stronger.
Roll on the euros its distinctly possible we could win it.dont despair,
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ginnywings
July 12, 2018, 2:55am Report to Moderator

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Some good points forza and i agree with your assessment on the whole. We too said some of the very same things in our post match analysis straight after the defeat. Most were happy with our overall performance but admitted we were not quite there yet. We also discussed the fact that the younger England sides have worked their way to winning tournaments over a period of time. Firstly getting to quarters, then semi's, before finally starting to win things. Let's hope the senior team can do the same. I also agree that Croatia were underestimated by a lot of people. They have many experienced players in their side who play for the cream of Europe, with heaps of medals and titles between them. You don't get to play regularly for Real Madrid, Juventus, Inter, Bayern and Atletico if you're not a top pro. Also totally agree with the comparisons to last nights game. Both Belgium and England played very well for the early parts of the games, but couldn't apply the killer touches required. Both France and Croatia rode the storms and exerted their influence more as the games wore on. The next step for both England and Belgium is to learn how to win tournaments. All in all, it's far more encouraging being an England fan than it has been for decades, and i think Southgate is right when he says this is just the beginning and there is better to come. At least i hope he is and i'm not despairing, far from it.
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Mrs Doyle
July 12, 2018, 4:41am Report to Moderator
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If you don't take your chances you don't win anything.

Nothing to do with Southgate our Achilles heel has been missed chances throughout this tournament.

Against mediocre you get away with it but against quality, you get punished. We bossed them first half and made them look poor but only had one goal to show for it.

The halftime talk for the croates would have been we are only a goal behind push up, pressure our defence and chase us down. Their tempo was far higher than ours and they deserved the win.

Still, a great effort to get to the semi-finals and show English football is back on the world map with a young squad capable of better things.
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HertsGTFC
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Just thought it was a different game in the 2nd half as Croatia used the flanks better and our 3 at he back had to become 5 leaving us short of numbers and creativity in mid field, they adapted, as an experienced team you'd expect that.  

In hindsight it's easy to say that we should have done this and should have done that but over the 120 minutes Croatia where the better side. Their international "experience" showed as the did a real job on the ref towards the end of the first half and coming off for the break as he went to pieces in the 2nd half and beyond.

Unlike previous recent tournaments on and off the field England did their best I'm not sure you can ask for anymore. I guess the important thing now is to keep the expectancy low and keep playing for England something players look forward to, do that and a lot might just look after itself.  


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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diehardmariner
July 12, 2018, 8:51am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano


Thank you ginny for a well balanced perspective. I agree totally but would like to add 1 or 2 or ten ! points
We've had world beating 30 minutes v Tunisia Colombia n Croatia. How do we build on that?
Far better performance overall than many people believed
Pickford trip pier Kane  maguire etc will be far better players, playing for far better teams in 2/4 years time
Many parallels with the Belgium France game last night where Belgium threatened early n could've been out of sight before the other team gradually exerted their control n influence and came out on top.
Whichever team won tonight will really really struggle v France
Croatia played as well as they could've hoped for.they are an excellent team, that as usual in the uk media, is vastly underrated. Just because you haven't played or succeeded in the premiership doesn't make you a bad player. The movement for the 2 goals plus the excellence of atleti's right back proves that.
Plus they worked so hard to close us down. V disappointed at the reversion to long ball Shiite but their hard work forced us to do it.
We have under 17,19,20 n 21 champs. We are only going to get better.
This is the best footballing England team I've seen in 30 years with everyone comfortable on the ball.
Everyone manager players coaches will learn from this and we will come back better n stronger.
Roll on the euros its distinctly possible we could win it.dont despair,


At last, someone who's not on a downer!  There was obvious frustrations last night, as much as I like how Southgate has set the side up I thought it needed a bit more oomph and energy in midfield, personally I would have gone for Delph in there to add a little bit of energy and just retain possession.  Would have taken a brave manager to do so but I think Vardy for Kane was needed in the second half.  Kane's effectiveness (dropping deep and winning flick-on's for Sterling) had gone by then and with Croatia pressing higher and higher we had the option to exploit the space in behind.  Doing that Southgate woud have tied the rope around his own neck.

England invited pressure needlessly and abandoned what had served us well.  But with some of the meltdown comments, not just one here, you would think we had got knocked out in the group stages in disgrace.  We lost to a very good Croatia side, a side who dominated our midfield with their two established world-class players.  England on the other side are a team just finding their feet.  There's no-one in or around that eleven who will be too old by 2020 or 2022, as a team we will be better in 2 and 4 years time.  We've got loads of talented players coming through who all have that tournament winning mentality about them.  

By all means let's be disappointed and reflect on the 'what if' but can we just appreciate how well this side and the set-up have done rather than the doom, gloom and constantly looking for someone to blame?
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Maringer
July 12, 2018, 9:24am Report to Moderator
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It will be interesting to see the running stats for the game. Can't help but feel that Croatia covered a heck of a lot more ground than our players and you don't deserve to win if you don't work hard enough or intelligently enough. As I mentioned last night, the way France defended their one goal lead against Belgium was night and day in comparison to the space we left available for Croatia in the middle and on the wings. You've got a player of such quality as Griezmann who was willing to absolutely run his mammaries off closing down the opposition players in comparison to Alli who jogged around to little effect. Young barely crossed the half-way line last night, either. We'd have been better off moving to 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 to ensure we had enough players in midfield. Instead, we let them have the run of the pitch, allowing dozens of crosses to come in without challenge.

I don't really blame the players too much because it's up to the manager to adapt to changes during the game and, though our choices were limited, bunging Dier in midfield every game off the bench shows a distinct lack of something, somewhere.

The media are praising everyone to high heaven today, but I think the manner in which we failed last night was all too typical of what we've seen so many times and doesn't deserve much praise. Croatia played decently after half-time, but it was as much a case of us letting them do what they wanted rather than them bringing the game to us - there was a reason they were well below us in the world rankings before the tournament started, some good players though they may have.

I don't think we'll see any sort of a rethink from Southgate (and I'm not saying anything major is really required), but we're going to struggle if we're so reliant on Kane and set pieces for goals. Our other first-choice attacking options are Sterling, Alli and Lingard who have goals/game ratios around 1 in 25, 1 in 10 and 1 in 8 respectively at international level. Even Rashford only has a 1 in 8 ratio though many have been as sub appearances. We just didn't hit the target nearly enough in the knockout stages - 1 shot on goal every 50 minutes - and this indicates a deeper problem, especially when you consider we enjoyed some good attacking spells during this period.

Hopefully, Southgate will realise that he needs to evolve his approach to some degree. Euro 2020 qualification ought to be a piece of cake when you consider our ranking and the number of teams in the finals so hopefully we'll try out a few different combinations and variations to find something which works a bit better or gives us a 'Plan B'.
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Tommy
July 12, 2018, 9:45am Report to Moderator
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I think we forget it's not just as easy as saying "we should've done this" or "we should've done that".......there's a quality team on the pitch with us who aren't going to allow us to do what we want.

Yes some players didn't put in 10/10 performances in every game but isn't that football? There's some weaker areas of our team but it's an evolving team in a relatively new system. As DHM said, you replace some of the weaker players with young lads coming through who have experience of winning international youth tournaments - I'm looking at Phil Foden particularly - and it might give us an edge compared to where we are now.

So I don't think the "what we should've done" inquest should be too strong/critical because we've surpassed expectations, and 31 teams at this World Cup will end up being able to look back and think what they could've done differently.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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Bigdog
July 12, 2018, 9:46am Report to Moderator
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Half of the team will improve enough with this experience definitely, but for England to progress as a national team, we'll need a few coming through from the lower age groups to improve quality over the next two or three years.

I think Southgate will learn too. Can't for the life of me get my head round him playing Ashley Young, poor defender and a total roadblock going forward on the left, and he left Jordan Henderson woefully exposed second half last night.

In all honesty, getting to the semi finals has to be deemed a confidence boosting progression. But being realistic, we didn't need to beat too much to get there..
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Tommy
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Another quick observation.......

I thought most people on here had no interest in England anyway??? Every England game in the last few years people couldn't come on here quick enough to say they didn't care about England and didn't know they were playing until the thread appeared on the fishy.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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TownSNAFU5
July 12, 2018, 10:00am Report to Moderator
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Not taking your chances when on top always encourages the opposition.  They worked us out by HT and were the better team.

Croatia made far more of their strengths.  Yet another game where the England ball into the final third was not good enough.  We miss/need a Perlo or Modric, who can make a killer forward pass that splits good defences.  These players get better in their 30s.

Maybe we should have had a better plan to deal with their midfield.

We rely too much on Kane, who for whatever reason, was off-form last night.  It cost us.(The BBC viewer-ratings voted him the lowest score of the 11 starters).  

Our young players tired.  Croatia got stronger.  Modric is 32, Manzukic is 32 and Rakitic is 30.  Age did not stop them.  Modric should be tired as he also played in all the CL matches.  He was still busy to the end until subbed when they had won.

France showed how a good defence can defend a lead against very talented individuals. We have always been poor at doing this.  

We need to add some top young players who are developing into positions where we need to be stronger.  Particularly, centre midfield and another striker.

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Maringer
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Quoted from Tommy
As DHM said, you replace some of the weaker players with young lads coming through who have experience of winning international youth tournaments - I'm looking at Phil Foden particularly - and it might give us an edge compared to where we are now.


Funny you should mention young Foden. I was wondering how much he's likely to play now Mahrez has gone to Man City for £60 million? They aren't going to drop Sané, Sterling or De Bruyne and it would take a brave manager to leave an expensive player like Mahrez on the bench. I'd imagine Foden will be loaned out to a Championship club somewhere and will find his progress stunted in the same way that Loftus-Cheek has.

As for the other point about Croatia not letting us do what we want - well, we didn't try to do anything different at all, did we, so how could we know? If the opposition is dominating midfield, surely you have to at least try to stop them?!?

That's why I noted I think Southgate failed to adapt because he didn't try anything different in the hope we would somehow hold out for penalties and sneak through in that manner. He's a very conservative manager - far too conservative last night, certainly.
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Bigdog
July 12, 2018, 10:08am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Abdul19
I saw us win Le Tournoi. Anything after that is a bonus.


Went to all three games. Great week or so around France and northern Spain..

Even then, we clinched the tournament with a narrow defeat to Brazil in Paris.. very England like!!
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diehardmariner
July 12, 2018, 10:11am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer
1 shot on goal every 50 minutes - and this indicates a deeper problem, especially when you consider we enjoyed some good attacking spells during this period.



I take that stat with a massive pinch of salt as a reflection on how we played and attacked sides.  We created plenty of chances, the 'concern' is that we didn't put them away.  Be that by hitting them wide, over or hesitating when going to pull the trigger.  That 'concern' is far less of a worry than if we weren't creating chances in the first place. Had we taken our chances in the first half, the game would have been done and dusted by half-time.

The nature of international football is cagey, especially in the final stages of a tournament so chances are generally at a premium.
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GrimRob
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By the next tournament all those Checkatrade games will have helped the next group of players. It could make all the difference.  


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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Ipswin
July 12, 2018, 10:42am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete
I saw us win in 1966 and have hopes of us winning it again before I pop my clogs,

PLUS

I hope to see Town in the championship as well.

Tonight we looked tired in the 2nd half ,

BUT

If we had took our chances in the 1st half we would have been 2 or 3 nil up,

Then it would have been them looking tired chasing the game,

Never mind we did well to go so far.



It won't happen again in our lifetime Pete and sadly I don't think it will happen in the lifetime of many of our younger posters either. Promise much deliver little. I am p!ssed off that failure in the semi-finals is regarded by many as a great success and Southgate is close to sainthood. They were crap last night and it came home to roost. No goal threat from open play whatsoever and a potential golden boot winner with three pens and one that just hit him - a joke. I can only recall one goal from open play, the one scored by Lingard (I'm probably wrong but then none of our goals was particularly memorable)
Just the joke game left to come - be nice if he played the second XI after all 3rd or 4th it's all wooden spoon - he won't of course it will be Harry (where's the goal) Kane and his mates yet again.


I don't actually want to say I told you so, but, intercourse it, I did
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Tommy
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Quoted from Maringer


Funny you should mention young Foden. I was wondering how much he's likely to play now Mahrez has gone to Man City for £60 million? They aren't going to drop Sané, Sterling or De Bruyne and it would take a brave manager to leave an expensive player like Mahrez on the bench. I'd imagine Foden will be loaned out to a Championship club somewhere and will find his progress stunted in the same way that Loftus-Cheek has.

As for the other point about Croatia not letting us do what we want - well, we didn't try to do anything different at all, did we, so how could we know? If the opposition is dominating midfield, surely you have to at least try to stop them?!?

That's why I noted I think Southgate failed to adapt because he didn't try anything different in the hope we would somehow hold out for penalties and sneak through in that manner. He's a very conservative manager - far too conservative last night, certainly.


Foden, I think could be looked at in Pep's system as the alternative to the Silva/KDB positions. Silva is getting on a bit so might be a gradual replacement for him. I don't know. A loan spell at another prem team might do him good for the next 12 months.

I think what we've missed and what we don't have is a midfielder who can get on the ball and control a game. Dictate the pace and direction of the game and just get on the ball all the time. Someone like Carrick (who was always under-used by England) if I'm thinking of English similar players to what I'm thinking about. When things weren't going well last night we struggled to get on the ball and keep it, a midfielder who gets on the ball and gets us playing was what we needed at that time. Don't know if there's any coming through, we'll see.


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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ginnywings
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Basically, Croatia did a number on us after the half time break. They turned us from a 3-5-2 into a 5-3-2 by pushing up higher, especially on the wings. Perisic and the guy on the other side (forgotten his name) were brilliant in negating us down the wings and pushing us back, forcing us to hit it long.

Much has been made of their "older" players, but early 30's is nothing in today's game. They play for top sides and top players keep themselves in top shape. They were better than us and they made us look second best. I'm not being down about it, merely realistic. As i have said before, we produce good players, but not great players. There are not many top sides clamouring to sign our players, not yet anyway, and until we start producing players as good as Mbappe, Hazard, Modric etc, we will always be just that notch below what is needed to go all the way. Man for man, the Croatia midfield is better than ours, as is the midfield of France.

I think Southgate has done a fantastic job, but the players were right at the edge of their ability last night, and were slightly second best. We all felt that he should have brought on Rose sooner, and tried to push them back a bit, but overall, he did as much as he could with the players at his disposal. I'm not sure we will ever have the players good enough to win a tournament, but we are a lot nearer to it than i can remember for decades, so that's good progress and has got people enthused for the England team again. I thank him for that at least. Just glad we dodged a bullet with Allardyce and route one rubbish.
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diehardmariner
July 12, 2018, 11:01am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Tommy


Foden, I think could be looked at in Pep's system as the alternative to the Silva/KDB positions. Silva is getting on a bit so might be a gradual replacement for him. I don't know. A loan spell at another prem team might do him good for the next 12 months.

I think what we've missed and what we don't have is a midfielder who can get on the ball and control a game. Dictate the pace and direction of the game and just get on the ball all the time. Someone like Carrick (who was always under-used by England) if I'm thinking of English similar players to what I'm thinking about. When things weren't going well last night we struggled to get on the ball and keep it, a midfielder who gets on the ball and gets us playing was what we needed at that time. Don't know if there's any coming through, we'll see.


Most will disagree but I think Delph was the best option in there once Croatia took over.  He keeps with Southgate's pressing approach but is far more comfortable on the ball than he's given credit for.  A lot is made of Henderson's passing but I think, in general, he's a bit of a blocker with his passing and that lofted pass he plays to the full-back often invites pressure as it requires the ball to be controlled and then passed on/dribbled.  That said I thought Henderson's range of passing in the first half last night was top drawer.  He was over-run in the second half but putting Dier in there didn't really help the retaining the ball, if anything it made it harder work and he was still one-man against two world class opponents.

I think, under Southgate, we'll continue to see this sort of hybrid set-up we've got.  A lot of players who are comfortable passing the ball and can pick out a pass but mixed with the high intensity and strong at set-pieces approach we have.  For too long we've craved the identify of someone else when it would never work for us.  In Southgate's absolute credit, he's discovered something that works for the players we've got and their strengths.

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Abdul19
July 12, 2018, 11:28am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ipswin


be nice if he played the second XI after all 3rd or 4th it's all wooden spoon - he won't of course it will be Harry (where's the goal) Kane and his mates yet again.


I reckon he'll play a similar team to the one that played Belgium 2 weeks ago.


Fentys out
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lew chaterleys lover
July 13, 2018, 5:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Maringer
We got a round or two past our correct level due to the luck of the draw and fell short when our lack of quality was found out up front and in midfield. Too reliant on Kane, Rashford nowhere near at the moment and Sterling never looks like scoring for England, for all his other qualities. Vardy not suited for international football where he's not going to get the space he usually works in.

Lots of OK players, few anywhere near world class. Alli is pretty much rubbish at international level and he'll have to do one hell of a lot for England to prove otherwise for me (if he's in form which deserves selection).

The way Southgate failed to react and make a positive change when were on the back foot against Colombia and again tonight worries me for the future. I expect we'll qualify for the next Euros but I'd be surprised if we got past the quarters in that with our current approach. I hope one or two good young central midfielders emerge in the next couple of years as we can't rely on Henderson to be more than decent. Worryingly, Maguire and Stones both panicked quite bit tonight but I think they are decent footballers overall so hopefully they'll improve over the next two years. Young not an international full-back so I hope Rose has a good couple of years, Trippier lacking pace and strength. I'd prefer to see Walker at wing-back with another player in the back three if we're going to continue with the current formation. Or perhaps Alexander-Arnold?

Lingard OK, but no more than that. I hope Loftus-Cheek has a good couple of years somewhere (guessing not at Chelsea) as he is one with great potential to emerge this tournament. Also, lots of credit to Pickford who had the odd flap tonight, but can't be criticised with the ongoing panic in front of him because he's been very solid even when having to deal with endless back passes to whack clear.


That seems very harsh to me.

We must have done a lot right to get to a World Cup semi final, whenever and wherever it is played. After all we have only done it twice before.

We were much the better side in the first half, and had we scored another, which we deserved, it would have been difficult for Croatia to come back.

Croatia had the better of the second half, and extra time was more even, but they got the all important goal. I think a draw after extra time would have been a fair result.

We were miles better than in any tournament for decades, and had a new spirit and humility which was much appreciated by the public. A young side too, and hopefully we can now really progress as an international side. I hope so anyway.
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Les Brechin
July 13, 2018, 5:40pm Report to Moderator

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***BREAKING NEWS***

FIFA officials have noticed that Croatia used a player that was yellow carded two games ago. He should have missed the last two games.

FIFA officials could disqualify Croatia from the World Cup, meaning England could potentially still be on their way to the final!

This news is official and can be checked on the BBC website. It was brought to the attention of the chairman of FIFA only 25 minutes ago.

Carlsberg don't do messageboard posts, but if they did, this would be the best messageboard post of the World Cup 2018!



OFFICIAL FUNDRAISER FOR THE BRAIN TUMOUR CHARITY
TOTAL AMOUNT RAISED SINCE AUGUST 2008 £15288.52


LATEST DONATION - FROM COLLECTION TIN ON COUNTER AT WORK - FEBRUARY 2018 AMOUNT RAISED £69.72
          
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TownSNAFU5
July 13, 2018, 5:55pm Report to Moderator
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Belgium had a talented team and very skilful midfield. They were still stopped by France. We are on the long road to success, which will be difficult.  
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ginnywings
July 13, 2018, 6:12pm Report to Moderator

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There is some confusion as to whether Rebic was booked twice or not. This is in no way sour grapes, because i felt Croatia were the better side, but the ref seemed unduly lenient to Croatia and i was a bit iffy about him taking charge of the game before it even kicked off. How Lovren didn't even get a booking all night remains a complete mystery. He committed several bad fouls and berated the ref on more than one occasion. The Turkish ref has previous for sending off English players.
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Abdul19
July 13, 2018, 6:20pm Report to Moderator

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I think the refs have been lenient all tournament. Letting the game flow is one thing, but not punishing cynical pull backs and whatnot is another.


Fentys out
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Gaffer58
July 13, 2018, 7:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Abdul19
I think the refs have been lenient all tournament. Letting the game flow is one thing, but not punishing cynical pull backs and whatnot is another.


The refs are told by FIFA to be very lenient with yellow/ red cards. This all goes back to the last time it was held in Germany, in 2006 when Ballack got booked in the semi, a second yellow added to one from a previous game, hence missed  the final. Just imagine if the final was Portugal v Argentina and both Ronaldo and Messi were suspended, McDonald's and Kia would be in melt down. Just watch how once the premier starts how players will be getting booked for a lot lesser infringement than one at the World Cup.
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Abdul19
July 13, 2018, 8:55pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Gaffer58


The refs are told by FIFA to be very lenient with yellow/ red cards. This all goes back to the last time it was held in Germany, in 2006 when Ballack got booked in the semi, a second yellow added to one from a previous game, hence missed  the final. Just imagine if the final was Portugal v Argentina and both Ronaldo and Messi were suspended, McDonald's and Kia would be in melt down. Just watch how once the premier starts how players will be getting booked for a lot lesser infringement than one at the World Cup.


The cards are wiped after the quarter finals now to avoid that happening, so it's nothing to do with that.


Fentys out
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Gaffer58
July 13, 2018, 9:05pm Report to Moderator
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Abdul, that's why, a booking in the semi counts for nothing as there's only the final  of third/ fourth place to play so you cannot miss the final unless you get s not off in the semi.
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