England Expects (but should it) ?

Before the tournament started, we were happy to progress to the last 16, the quarters being a good result.
All of a sudden after two victories against opposition I would hope to beat we are suddenly 'back' and  in with a chance of winning it/getting to the final. !!!!!!!!
Don't get me wrong, England have played better than most expected and given their young age have certainly won a few fans back.(Including me).
But are we now setting them up for a bit of a fall?  The arrogance of us saying we want to finish second in our group in order to progress is in my mind disrespectful to the likes of Japan, Senegal etc.  Have we forgotten Iceland already?   Of course I understand that finishing second would look like a better prospect, but doesn't it also set us up for a fall ??  This team looks hungrier and more hard working than I've seen for a long time.  Let them loose (as opposed to lose) to play as they would like.  Imagine the message it would send out (both home and abroad) if we did beat the likes of France.
It's a young team that could go on to give us back a bit of respect within the next few years.  

So yes, I do expect, but not too much just yet.

Come on ENGERLAND

Go all out to win the group. Who cares who we play? I don’t. You’ve got to play the best at some point, but either way we can’t look beyond the 2nd round, otherwise we’ll look ridiculous when an Iceland-style defeat happens against Colombia/Senegal/Japan.

I'm of the opinion that you have to beat the best to be the best and therefore couldn't give a monkeys fart who we play and at what stage we play them.
Im not sure we can win it but there has been some good stuff played by our young team and we're showing potential.
That said, second half vs Tunisia actually showed our inexperience, we let Tunisias disruptive tactics rattle us and only just scraped the 3 points.
I'd say its fine to expect but lets not beat them down if it goes wrong.........we weren't gonna win it 2 weeks ago!

We should expect what we thought would happen, last 16 or quarters in my opinion. We've beaten nobody and haven't kept a clean sheet.
I do think Southgate has done well to go for youth, and their enthusiasm is fantastic. Dumping Rooney Hart and Wiltshire appears a master stroke and whatever happens in the next week or so I think the nation should be looking forward with optimism
Come on England!!

I think there's a definite advantage in avoiding the best teams for as long as possible. Even if you are the best (which England aren't), the more good teams you come up against, the more likely you are to slip up. One bad refereeing decision and you're toast.

However, I don't think England are capable of playing to deliberately lose.

I agree with Civvy though in that building up the expectation is both unhelpful and stupid. Beating two poor teams does not make us prospects to win the tournament. Even if we beat Belgium tonight, I'll be thinking of Hurst. Paul not Geoff. And not West Germany, but Newport that time they put out a weakened side, we thrashed them but that meant they got us in the playoffs and promptly taught us a lesson.

There is a  debate about whether it is better to come second in the group. It's true that the top half of the draw looks much tougher, with Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Portugal there, but what that means is that we would face a tough quarter final (probably Brazil) and a tough semi. But in the other half of the draw we might meet Spain in the semi.

My view is that you will never get an easy world cup quarter or semi final anyway, so you may as well go for the win today to keep momentum going. I would rest a few players, as I think Belgium will, especially those on yellow cards.  

If we end up in the half of the draw with Brazil, France, Portugal, Uruguay etc, is there any of those teams who have looked outstandingly good? Not for me. Brazil maybe shading it but they've looked wobbly at times for me and a better side could punish them.

It's not a true reflection either to list all the teams on that side of the draw. For example, the "tough" side of the draw will contain France, Argentina, Uruguay, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico and someone from Group G. But it's not like we'd have to face that many top sides. One of France/Argentina will be knocked out (neither look good to me anyway), and same with Brazil/Mexico.

The last point for me is that we could be massively overlooking the potentially toughest last 16 game we could have. If we don't top the group, I reckon we'll end up playing Columbia, who are a very good side and could go far in this tournament as they did the last WC.

Just win the game. Win the group. One game at a time. No fear.

This England team is definitely " work in progress " but you have to approach every game with a win mentality. In the same token I think the game against Belgium offers Southgate an opportunity to rest one or two key players and try a different approach eg start with Vardy. We also have  players on a yellow card and it could be crucial to how far we advance if they pick up another against Belgium and are then unavailable for the next match.

I have to eat humble pie and say my opinion of Southgate has changed completely the guy is a breath of fresh air for the game in England.I had him nailed on as a yes man like a younger Hodgson.Not at all the player`s are playing with freedom and seem to actually be enjoying the tournament rather than it being a millstone round the neck.A player like Lingard who has had to make a career at a top Club the hard way by countless loans showing what grit and determination can get you.Ali,Vardy and the other`s who have worked up from lower down the pyramid have got this lot finally playing like a team.We have had far more talented player`s at recent tournaments but the press killed them with hype and expectation.This lot will come home regardless of when they go out to a grateful set of football fans who will say they had a go and that`s all we have ever asked.C`mon England

We came into the tournament with the lowest expectations I can ever remember but, on the basis that no other team has looked very impressive, I think we just go for it. The competition looks wide open to me and I think I would rather face Brazil in a quarter final than a final.

We'll still not manage to get far cause we haven't got a big man to hoof the ball towards. That's right isn't it TheRonRaffertyFanClub?

For what it's worth, given we've got one of the youngest squads in the tournament, I'm not overly concerned where we go out although obviously I'd like us to get as far as possible. The fact that we've got a system and style that is being replicated at every age group, and that we've won nearly all the youth tournaments recently, puts us in the best position going forward that we've been in for a long. Any success this year would be a major bonus but we're looking at a bright future.

We struggled to beat Tunisia...last gasp winner....and we walked over Panama (ranked 55 in world football) ... and now we expect ??

Today's game will be a nothing game really with no clue at all as to what sort of chance we do have of progressing further.

It'll be the last 16 game, whoever we play when it should become a lot clearer.

Nobody ever remembers who you played on the way to the final, obviously, a good draw helps but we had it 2 years ago and lost to Iceland.  

I just assume we will lose every round and it's a pleasant surprise if we don't!

Getting to the knock-out phase is getting easier with every tournament. Qualification is a doddle, and with the Euros going up to 32 and WC to 48, we're nearly always going to get to knock-out football every 2 years with the top 2 qualifying from groups of 3 from 2026.

In Euro 1996 the quarterfinals were the knockouts, now there's one extra round and in WC 2026 it's going to be 2 extra rounds!

Portugal, Greece and Denmark all won the Euro's with pants teams. There is no reason if we lose today that we can't get to the semi's and then we hope Spain has an off day. Can't see us beating Brazil if we win or draw today in the quarters they've just got too many good players.

Quoted from horsforthmariner

Portugal, Greece and Denmark all won the Euro's with pants teams. There is no reason if we lose today that we can't get to the semi's and then we hope Spain has an off day. Can't see us beating Brazil if we win or draw today in the quarters they've just got too many good players.

When Portugal won the Euros they didn't win one game in their group and only won 1 game in 90 minutes during the entire tournament.

Quoted from Les Brechin

When Portugal won the Euros they didn't win one game in their group and only won 1 game in 90 minutes during the entire tournament.

That was remarkable

Quoted from moosey_club

We struggled to beat Tunisia...last gasp winner....and we walked over Panama (ranked 55 in world football) ... and now we expect ??

Was it a struggle to beat Tunisia though? We battered them for large spells of the game. 61% possession, 18 shots to their 6 and 8 shots on target to their one, which was a penalty.

Their goal was never a penalty in a million years and if we'd finished better we'd have been out of sight in the first half hour. Yes you can argue that we should have taken our chances but I'd rather be creating chances and missing than not creating at all, then you've got a fundamental problem.

also we should have had 2 pens, for the same thing we were given one against Panama.
As for the late winner, why were we lucky, when Germany did it, it was "what good teams do".

Super Belgium who are going to go far in this competition according to some have played the same two teams as we have and have the same record, so why are we derided?

Quoted from mariner91

Was it a struggle to beat Tunisia though? We battered them for large spells of the game. 61% possession, 18 shots to their 6 and 8 shots on target to their one, which was a penalty.

Their goal was never a penalty in a million years and if we'd finished better we'd have been out of sight in the first half hour. Yes you can argue that we should have taken our chances but I'd rather be creating chances and missing than not creating at all, then you've got a fundamental problem.

Germany "battered" their opponents, they had 75% possession yesterday and still lost without scoring. Similar to when we lost to Iceland. In football, the best team frequently doesn't win which makes it so interesting!

Quoted from moosey_club

We struggled to beat Tunisia...last gasp winner....and we walked over Panama (ranked 55 in world football) ... and now we expect ??

How dare you spoil the unbridled positivity on here with any reasoned debate. May I remind you that England and MJ are untouchable at the moment, so keep any of your thoughts (however level headed they may be) to yourself..

The thing is, there are no teams out there to be afraid of. Germany are out. France and brazil have stumbled through, also relying on late goals. Spain and portugal looked far from impressive. Argentina look plain shite. This tournament is wide open, and when you've got a striker of Kane's quality, you always have a chance. I think this tournament will have a few surprises, with some lesser teams getting to the quarters and semis, and england could genuinely do well.

Good read here with several interesting points -

https://www.football365.com/news/playing-for-second-would-be-foolish-for-england

Quoted from Bigdog

How dare you spoil the unbridled positivity on here with any reasoned debate. May I remind you that England and MJ are untouchable at the moment, so keep any of your thoughts (however level headed they may be) to yourself..

That's not the case though is it? Nobody is claiming England are certain to win the World Cup. But we've performed as well as anybody (except maybe Belgium but we're ahead of them in the group so not dissimilar) and nobody is playing so brilliantly that we wouldn't have any chance of beating them. We've got a young squad who are playing well and will only get better as long as England stick with the blueprint they've created and don't change it at the first sign of difficulties. In Harry Kane we've got a world class striker who is on form so we'll have a chance against anybody so there's no reason not to be reasonably positive, the optimism is not completely baseless like previous years.

Even if we don't win this year, which we probably won't, we're still in a great position. Bringing through players who are winning tournaments at every age group who will be used to playing a more technical style, the ones who make it in the Premier League will be able to slot right in to a team that will have at least another 3 tournaments in it anyway. If you can't be positive about the future of the national team right now then you're a miserable sodomist.

6 out of our 8 goals have come from set pieces so at some point in the tournament we will have to create from open play in order to progress.

Belgium will no doubt provide a tougher test, be interested to see how we get on tonight.

I believe the confidence that comes with winning games is far more valuable than being in the so called easier side of the draw.

I think I’ll be happy to win all three group games and to then just have a good go in the knockout stages, quarters would be a good result imo. We may not be the best side in the world but from set pieces we’ll have even the best defensive  sides worried.

I also believe that taking tonight’s game easy would be disrespectful to all the fans that have made the effort to be there and to Harry Kane who needs to keep scoring to aid his golden boot quest and keep confidence high

Quoted from Tommy

If we end up in the half of the draw with Brazil, France, Portugal, Uruguay etc, is there any of those teams who have looked outstandingly good? Not for me. Brazil maybe shading it but they've looked wobbly at times for me and a better side could punish them.

It's not a true reflection either to list all the teams on that side of the draw. For example, the "tough" side of the draw will contain France, Argentina, Uruguay, Portugal, Brazil, Mexico and someone from Group G. But it's not like we'd have to face that many top sides. One of France/Argentina will be knocked out (neither look good to me anyway), and same with Brazil/Mexico.

The last point for me is that we could be massively overlooking the potentially toughest last 16 game we could have. If we don't top the group, I reckon we'll end up playing Columbia, who are a very good side and could go far in this tournament as they did the last WC.

Just win the game. Win the group. One game at a time. No fear.

Agree with this. I think trying to face 'weaker' sides sets yourself up for a fall, and why be scared of the names above?

And yes anyway, Colombia are a really good team. To compare them to Iceland as someone did is ridiculous.

Quoted from Tommy

Good read here with several interesting points -

https://www.football365.com/news/playing-for-second-would-be-foolish-for-england

Interesting argument, I totally disagree but interesting nevertheless

Of course what would resolve this playing for second debacle is if the rounds were actually drawn rather than planned. Just stick all the teams that came first in their groups in one bowl and the second teams in the other and draw the matches that way.

All this talk of it not mattering if they lose and trying to get a few yellow cards in towards the end if both teams are tied on points and goals difference is very non-sporting.

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

All this talk of it not mattering if they lose and trying to get a few yellow cards in towards the end if both teams are tied on points and goals difference is very non-sporting.

But I was under the impression we wanted to win it or are we going for the most sporting failures prize (again)

Quoted from Les Brechin

Today's game will be a nothing game really with no clue at all as to what sort of chance we do have of progressing further.

It'll be the last 16 game, whoever we play when it should become a lot clearer.

Nah, it'll be the day after the final

Hope there are not too many changes unless one or two are carrying knocks or yellow cards. Keep a winning team and momentum. Having said that we have not been tested with Pickford hardly having to make a save. That will change at some point.

Quoted from Abdul19

Colombia are a really good team.

And as if by magic, Colombia look a shadow of the side that battered Poland the other night!

Quoted from mariner91

Was it a struggle to beat Tunisia though? We battered them for large spells of the game. 61% possession, 18 shots to their 6 and 8 shots on target to their one, which was a penalty.

Their goal was never a penalty in a million years and if we'd finished better we'd have been out of sight in the first half hour. Yes you can argue that we should have taken our chances but I'd rather be creating chances and missing than not creating at all, then you've got a fundamental problem.

1 goal victory...last gasp...  absolutely dire 2nd half = struggled in my book

Quoted from moosey_club

1 goal victory...last gasp...  absolutely dire 2nd half = struggled in my book

Spain also struggled against them with a late victory within the last month, they're hardly mugs. They drew with Portugal in May as well. I forgot goals and victories don't count if they're done late on, we'll have to chalk off loads of Town's points from the end of the season and inform the National League that we'll be joining them.

Great day in Wales today.

Playlist
of

3lions
World in motion
This time
Back home
Vindaloo

On repeat of course!

Quoted from mariner91

Spain also struggled against them with a late victory within the last month, they're hardly mugs. They drew with Portugal in May as well. I forgot goals and victories don't count if they're done late on, we'll have to chalk off loads of Town's points from the end of the season and inform the National League that we'll be joining them.

I never argued about getting the points, i dont care what anyone else did against them....we struggled to beat them and they hardly showed any attacking intent at all......ifs and buts dont appear on the scoreboard.

Tonights almost reserve game wont show us anything about our chances either......walk over the next opponents and expectations can rise but not yet.  

Well I think we know what team will be selected now as  on one player stood out against Belgium ,

Danny Rose looked good in the 1st half until he faded in the 2nd half letting their player too much room to score the winner,

Columbia will rise their game but I think we will go through,

If we play Sweden they are always hard to beat but its winnable,

Then we might find ourselves in the semi final,

That could be as far as we go but who knows ?

Thought ,
Why are there so many Columbia fans in Russia ?


They can not all be farmers  

With regards to the opening post well said.

I think arrogance is a danger eg what Martin Keown said when he was doing the Spain V Morocco punditry on Monday night eg Spain were playing with a certain nonchalance.

As has been shown in this world cup so called lesser teams cant be taken lightly. Eg just look at the likes likes of what Iran have done eg nearly made it through the group of so called big boys of Spain and Portugal and gave both very tough games.

I think Columbia could be a tricky game.Watching them in the group stage when they beat Poland 3-0 looked a exciting team. Certainly  I think could cause more problems for England than Japan.