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English Football League play-offs: Why you have to

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140067
May 26, 2018, 9:00am
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I found this interesting as we will be at least in the Playoffs 2018-2019   .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44120535
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GrimRob
May 26, 2018, 10:01am

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Made me smile all the rubbish about sports psychology. The main reason losing play-off teams don't go on and get promoted the following year are:

1. Squad changes, not just of the team concerned but every other team. In the summer and in the transfer windows.
2. Changes to the teams in league. A quarter of each division is recycled every year.
3. Manager and other staff changes throughout the league.
4. Fitness/aging, a year is a long time in a player's life.
5. Luck! Probably the biggest reason. Each football match is a roll of the dice, all 3 outcomes are always possible in any game. Even if you were to go back in time and replay each season, the outcome would be quite different.

I'd say sports psychology was such a small factor compared to these it's barely even mentioning.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
May 26, 2018, 10:32am
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Quoted from GrimRob
Made me smile all the rubbish about sports psychology. The main reason losing play-off teams don't go on and get promoted the following year are:

1. Squad changes, not just of the team concerned but every other team. In the summer and in the transfer windows.
2. Changes to the teams in league. A quarter of each division is recycled every year.
3. Manager and other staff changes throughout the league.
4. Fitness/aging, a year is a long time in a player's life.
5. Luck! Probably the biggest reason. Each football match is a roll of the dice, all 3 outcomes are always possible in any game. Even if you were to go back in time and replay each season, the outcome would be quite different.

I'd say sports psychology was such a small factor compared to these it's barely even mentioning.


Yes I agree, too much attention can be paid to professional psychology but it does matter when there is another factor - the long run factor. We saw it at BP with the losing run and then the winning run. We saw it under the Woods losing run. Two or three good or bad games in the three points for a win league can set a club up for the future 20 games. Accrington went on to storm the league after their losing run broke at BP. I do agree it isn't so much a psychologist as normal human psychology. We win because we win and often we win because we become used to winning.

So your number 5 doesn't operate quite as simply as that. If a side wins some consecutive games in your replayed season that it lost in the original season, by luck or ability it doesn't matter, then that will have a knock-on effect.



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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moosey_club
May 26, 2018, 11:22am
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Players have ambitions, especially those in the top end Championship sides, of playing in the Premier, the eye catching players of play off losers will get a move up more times than not so get "promoted" anyhow...the clubs they leave find themselves missing star players the following season as well as the blow of coming so close.

Look at the non league though were the last 3(?) losing finalists have gone back to the final the next season and gone up.
Funny old game.


2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW
2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
2018/19  LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  
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MeanwoodMariner
May 26, 2018, 11:57am

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Interesting stuff but the only really bizarre thing is that Leyton Orient got relegated the year after they lost their play off final. That's right, they parted company with Russell Slade and did worse the next year.
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75
May 26, 2018, 12:11pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
Made me smile all the rubbish about sports psychology. The main reason losing play-off teams don't go on and get promoted the following year are:

1. Squad changes, not just of the team concerned but every other team. In the summer and in the transfer windows.
2. Changes to the teams in league. A quarter of each division is recycled every year.
3. Manager and other staff changes throughout the league.
4. Fitness/aging, a year is a long time in a player's life.
5. Luck! Probably the biggest reason. Each football match is a roll of the dice, all 3 outcomes are always possible in any game. Even if you were to go back in time and replay each season, the outcome would be quite different.

I'd say sports psychology was such a small factor compared to these it's barely even mentioning.


To be honest, I think sports psychology is an important part of the modern game. When I played in Sunday league etc if I took the time to think about the role my manager wanted me to play, to visualise what I was going to do in certain situations then it helped and I generally had a better game. Maybe that's something slightly different to psychology. I remember playing at Blundell Park just in a chairman's challenge game, I thought to myself as driving down Grimsby Road, I'm gonna net one today in the Pontoon and I ended up scoring.
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Tommy
May 26, 2018, 12:21pm
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Quoted from GrimRob
Made me smile all the rubbish about sports psychology. The main reason losing play-off teams don't go on and get promoted the following year are:

1. Squad changes, not just of the team concerned but every other team. In the summer and in the transfer windows.
2. Changes to the teams in league. A quarter of each division is recycled every year.
3. Manager and other staff changes throughout the league.
4. Fitness/aging, a year is a long time in a player's life.
5. Luck! Probably the biggest reason. Each football match is a roll of the dice, all 3 outcomes are always possible in any game. Even if you were to go back in time and replay each season, the outcome would be quite different.

I'd say sports psychology was such a small factor compared to these it's barely even mentioning.


I disagree and think sports psychology is big thing. Always has been, it's just been tapped into a lot more now and it's become a profession.

I'd put it in your list of 5 in place of luck. Which I don't believe plays any part whatsoever. Nothing about a football match is luck. (Aside from the ball smacking a beachball and going in the net or extreme moments like that)


"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one."
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KingstonMariner
May 26, 2018, 1:37pm
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Tend to agree with Tommy. Suppose it might be luck which way a ref decides in a crucial incident as well. But I'd guess that all evens out over many games.


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Abdul19
May 26, 2018, 2:13pm

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Agreed. People say the ball hitting a post is unlucky. Or losing a penalty shootout. But it's not!


JESUS AT THE CENTRE
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
May 26, 2018, 2:18pm
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Quoted from Tommy


I disagree and think sports psychology is big thing. Always has been, it's just been tapped into a lot more now and it's become a profession.

I'd put it in your list of 5 in place of luck. Which I don't believe plays any part whatsoever. Nothing about a football match is luck. (Aside from the ball smacking a beachball and going in the net or extreme moments like that)


So the defender who slips through no fault of his own and a forward runs in to score is not unlucky? The wind dropping at half time when you’ve let in 3 playing against it first half is not unlucky? The goalkeeper getting accidentally concussed is not unlucky?

There are a myriad possibilities. Psychology is good if it works but if both sides have sports psychologist of equal ability is the result always a draw? If a side loses does it mean their sports psychologist is useless?

If we are going to talk about psychology I would rather we said “belief” and “self-belief”. That’s what Vicar had in the Chairman’s challenge. It used to be the captain or the manager or assistant who did this in the dressing room. Did you see in the play about Munich 1958 how Jimmy Murphy got the side fired up?who needs a sports psychologist when you have someone like that?




“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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