Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Carlisle
Users Browsing Forum
AdSense, Googlebot and 343 Guests

Carlisle

  This thread currently has 4,262 views. Print
3 Pages 1 2 3 All Recommend Thread
Jarmo.Is.God
May 8, 2018, 9:33am

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,332
Posts Per Day: 0.99
Reputation: 66.38%
Rep Score: +22 / -13
Approval: +6,051
Gold Stars: 86
Seems Carlisle are impressed with Jolley and going to try the same route:

CUOSC, whose directors will have input into the manager decision at Carlisle, have said in their latest briefing that they favour a "young coach" rather than an "experienced operator". "A manager who is committed for the long term, rather than a short term sticking plaster

It not guaranteed to always work, but its definitely worth risking that going for an experienced manager on a lot more money with no desire to win anything anymore
Logged Offline
Private Message
Stew0_0
May 8, 2018, 10:37am
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,597
Posts Per Day: 0.45
Reputation: 82.35%
Rep Score: +20 / -4
Approval: +1,199
Gold Stars: 35
Get Jolley on a 2 year contract now before they come sniffing
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 1 - 22
Townee82
May 8, 2018, 10:48am
Beer Drinker
Posts: 115
Posts Per Day: 0.05
Approval: +87
Six months rolling deters potential suiters  as if a team wants a manager they want him then and now not in six months time which this type of contract dictates so it is a good safe guiding measure but can give out the wrong message to the recipient of the contract so yes sign him long term .
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 2 - 22
pizzzza
May 8, 2018, 12:11pm

Pontoonite
Posts: 5,624
Posts Per Day: 1.05
Reputation: 69.75%
Rep Score: +20 / -10
Location: Grimsby
Approval: +6,657
Gold Stars: 135
Quoted from Townee82
Six months rolling deters potential suiters  .


Like Shrewsbury?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 3 - 22
RichMariner
May 8, 2018, 12:21pm
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,954
Posts Per Day: 0.50
Reputation: 89.39%
Rep Score: +42 / -4
Location: Garforth, Leeds
Approval: +9,109
Gold Stars: 204
Interesting how lower league clubs are now turning our attention to younger coaches while the lower half of the Prem continue to give jobs to the same circle of managers e.g. Pardew, Allardyce, Pulis, Hughes, Moyes, etc.

Those managers can walk in, immediately command respect and have enough experience to turn things round quickly. That's the positive. But long term they leave no legacies. They're not given the time to do so.

I'd like Grimsby to be a club that gives managers time. I give the board credit for standing by Hurst and I'd like them to do the same with Jolley. While we're all keen to see us progress on the pitch, I'd be quite happy for us to progress off it i.e. youth team, community involvement, fan engagement, Trust, etc and stabilise on the pitch for the long term health of the club.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
Logged Offline
Site Private Message
Reply: 4 - 22
Gaffer58
May 8, 2018, 6:12pm
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,978
Posts Per Day: 0.88
Reputation: 57.51%
Rep Score: +6 / -8
Approval: +4,034
Gold Stars: 31
Well Richmarimer, Hughes after tonight may have relegated 2 premier teams in the same season, how does he still keep getting appointments.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 5 - 22
pen penfras
May 8, 2018, 6:24pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,677
Posts Per Day: 0.67
Reputation: 58.56%
Rep Score: +8 / -9
Approval: -137
Gold Stars: 71
Quoted from pizzzza


Like Shrewsbury?


It's not like they got him for free. He didn't want to be here and a large portion of the fans didn't want him here.

It must be something like 10 times as many managers get sacked vs moving on to another club during a contract. 6 month rolling contract protects the club in both aspects with little payoff but clubs can't poach them at the end of the contract. Can somebody please explain why the hatred for these contracts other than the fact that they're not the common thing done in football? I don't see any advantages for GTFC in a 3 year contract over a 6 month rolling contract. Happy to be enlightened.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 6 - 22
Cloudy
May 8, 2018, 6:36pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,335
Posts Per Day: 1.15
Reputation: 71.17%
Rep Score: +17 / -8
Approval: +6,431
Quoted from pen penfras


It's not like they got him for free. He didn't want to be here and a large portion of the fans didn't want him here.

It must be something like 10 times as many managers get sacked vs moving on to another club during a contract. 6 month rolling contract protects the club in both aspects with little payoff but clubs can't poach them at the end of the contract. Can somebody please explain why the hatred for these contracts other than the fact that they're not the common thing done in football? I don't see any advantages for GTFC in a 3 year contract over a 6 month rolling contract. Happy to be enlightened.


A quote we have often heard from Mr J Fenty.
Never found any evidence that was the case. Yes some wanted change but nowhere near the 'large' portion claimed
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 7 - 22
Bigdog
May 8, 2018, 6:37pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,383
Posts Per Day: 1.14
Reputation: 93.81%
Rep Score: +36 / -1
Approval: +11,802
Gold Stars: 162
Quoted from pen penfras


It's not like they got him for free. He didn't want to be here and a large portion of the fans didn't want him here.

It must be something like 10 times as many managers get sacked vs moving on to another club during a contract. 6 month rolling contract protects the club in both aspects with little payoff but clubs can't poach them at the end of the contract. Can somebody please explain why the hatred for these contracts other than the fact that they're not the common thing done in football? I don't see any advantages for GTFC in a 3 year contract over a 6 month rolling contract. Happy to be enlightened.


Larger compensation package if the manager is headhunted. Realise you've got an asset, back it with a longer contract, put's a larger price on his head if a bigger club comes sniffing. Also ensures there's a bit more money around if he leaves to invest in a better quality of manager..

Pretty much the same with players, not risking your best players running down their contracts and being on the open market every summer..

Handing out longer contracts does involve confidence in what you're doing, a bit of football knowledge, a longer term plan than season to season and a bit of foresight though..
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 8 - 22
pen penfras
May 8, 2018, 6:42pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,677
Posts Per Day: 0.67
Reputation: 58.56%
Rep Score: +8 / -9
Approval: -137
Gold Stars: 71
Quoted from Bigdog


Larger compensation package if the manager is headhunted. Realise you've got an asset, back it with a longer contract, put's a larger price on his head if a bigger club come sniffing.

Pretty much the same with players, not risking your best players running down their contracts and being on the open market every summer..

Handing out longer contracts does involve confidence in what you're doing, a bit of football knowledge, a longer term plan than season to season and a bit of foresight though..


How is that the case? There's no nominal fee for buying out a manager's contract, there's no tribunal where it might be taken into account by a committee. The clubs have to agree on the compensation and then that is paid. The hiring club isn't going to wait 6 months to get him for free, so we have plenty of power in that situation.

As for the large portion of fans, I agree. It wasn't necessarily a large portion, but a very vocal portion that banged that drum loud and often. Unfortunately, they're the ones that get heard and Hurst clearly took it to heart.

eta. It's not a longer contract. A 3 year contract lasts 3 years, a rolling contract lasts indefinitely until one party chooses to end it.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 9 - 22
ginnywings
May 8, 2018, 6:45pm

Recovering Alcoholic
Posts: 28,126
Posts Per Day: 5.05
Reputation: 73.79%
Rep Score: +88 / -32
Approval: +55,972
Gold Stars: 538
Funny that Hurst's parting shot wasn't aimed at the fans though. Of course, every problem at the club is ultimately the fault of the fans isn't it?
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 10 - 22
Bigdog
May 8, 2018, 7:06pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,383
Posts Per Day: 1.14
Reputation: 93.81%
Rep Score: +36 / -1
Approval: +11,802
Gold Stars: 162
Quoted from pen penfras


How is that the case? There's no nominal fee for buying out a manager's contract, there's no tribunal where it might be taken into account by a committee. The clubs have to agree on the compensation and then that is paid. The hiring club isn't going to wait 6 months to get him for free, so we have plenty of power in that situation.

As for the large portion of fans, I agree. It wasn't necessarily a large portion, but a very vocal portion that banged that drum loud and often. Unfortunately, they're the ones that get heard and Hurst clearly took it to heart.

eta. It's not a longer contract. A 3 year contract lasts 3 years, a rolling contract lasts indefinitely until one party chooses to end it.



I'm pretty sure you are wrong in correcting me. See below law guidelines and the club losing their manager has greater bargaining power in a tribunal if the contract is longer, the rolling six month contract is deemed as a six month contract in this case as it's the earliest natural termination point for either partiy..

Do clubs have to pay a transfer fee for a manager for a manager who moves clubs in this manner?

"If a football player under contract were to move in this manner the clubs would pay a transfer fee – the terms of which will be agreed upon by the two clubs. For a manager to move there is no specific transfer fee but the clubs do have to come to an arrangement.

What kind of arrangement?

The club who gains the services of the manager will be required to pay a fee to compensate the club who is losing the manager. The amount of compensation is a matter which will be agreed between the two clubs.

What is this compensation for?

When the manager leaves the club to which he was originally contracted he will be deemed to have terminated his contract early (a breach of the contract) meaning that the club will need to be compensated for this loss.

What happens if the clubs cannot agree an adequate amount of compensation?

If the manager moves between clubs and the clubs cannot agree on an adequate amount of compensation then due to the early termination of the contract the original club will be able to bring the following claims:

    Breach of contract – by the manager
    Inducement to breach the contract – by the club obtaining his services

It is likely that both these claims are to be heard by a disciplinary tribunal which will decide on the adequate amount of compensation to be paid..
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 11 - 22
Townee82
May 8, 2018, 7:38pm
Beer Drinker
Posts: 115
Posts Per Day: 0.05
Approval: +87
Didn't we have to cough up to Boston for Hurst n Scott ? Compo is a legal part of a manager moving teams , the rolling contract does give the club the advantage of curtailed slades  pay off .
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 12 - 22
pen penfras
May 8, 2018, 8:04pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,677
Posts Per Day: 0.67
Reputation: 58.56%
Rep Score: +8 / -9
Approval: -137
Gold Stars: 71
Quoted from Bigdog



I'm pretty sure you are wrong in correcting me. See below law guidelines and the club losing their manager has greater bargaining power in a tribunal if the contract is longer, the rolling six month contract is deemed as a six month contract in this case as it's the earliest natural termination point for either partiy..

Do clubs have to pay a transfer fee for a manager for a manager who moves clubs in this manner?

"If a football player under contract were to move in this manner the clubs would pay a transfer fee – the terms of which will be agreed upon by the two clubs. For a manager to move there is no specific transfer fee but the clubs do have to come to an arrangement.

What kind of arrangement?

The club who gains the services of the manager will be required to pay a fee to compensate the club who is losing the manager. The amount of compensation is a matter which will be agreed between the two clubs.

What is this compensation for?

When the manager leaves the club to which he was originally contracted he will be deemed to have terminated his contract early (a breach of the contract) meaning that the club will need to be compensated for this loss.

What happens if the clubs cannot agree an adequate amount of compensation?

If the manager moves between clubs and the clubs cannot agree on an adequate amount of compensation then due to the early termination of the contract the original club will be able to bring the following claims:

    Breach of contract – by the manager
    Inducement to breach the contract – by the club obtaining his services

It is likely that both these claims are to be heard by a disciplinary tribunal which will decide on the adequate amount of compensation to be paid..


But you can't just sign a contract with another club and start managing them when you're already under contract. That sort of situation is when it is deemed that the manager resigned under the influence of another club making an offer and then signing for them ie Hurst and Scott coming here. You can't just leave when you want without working your notice period unless the club agree to it.

There have been a couple of cases where a manager has tried to leave without serving notice which was rejected by the club and they've held out until a compensation has been agreed. Steve Bruce was the famous one that I can remember. Obviously once it gets to the point of going to court, there's no way to rebuild the relationship and it's just about getting the best deal.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 13 - 22
MuddyWaters
May 8, 2018, 8:10pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 14,028
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +31,883
Gold Stars: 230
Quoted from pen penfras


How is that the case? There's no nominal fee for buying out a manager's contract, there's no tribunal where it might be taken into account by a committee. The clubs have to agree on the compensation and then that is paid. The hiring club isn't going to wait 6 months to get him for free, so we have plenty of power in that situation.

As for the large portion of fans, I agree. It wasn't necessarily a large portion, but a very vocal portion that banged that drum loud and often. Unfortunately, they're the ones that get heard and Hurst clearly took it to heart.

eta. It's not a longer contract. A 3 year contract lasts 3 years, a rolling contract lasts indefinitely until one party chooses to end it.


A large portion becomes not necessarily a large portion in 20 minutes? Hurst wasn't bothered about it anyway, more the lack of support from above - he told me so face to face and said as much in various interviews.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 14 - 22
Bigdog
May 8, 2018, 8:20pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,383
Posts Per Day: 1.14
Reputation: 93.81%
Rep Score: +36 / -1
Approval: +11,802
Gold Stars: 162
Quoted from pen penfras


But you can't just sign a contract with another club and start managing them when you're already under contract
. That sort of situation is when it is deemed that the manager resigned under the influence of another club making an offer and then signing for them ie Hurst and Scott coming here. You can't just leave when you want without working your notice period unless the club agree to it.

There have been a couple of cases where a manager has tried to leave without serving notice which was rejected by the club and they've held out until a compensation has been agreed. Steve Bruce was the famous one that I can remember. Obviously once it gets to the point of going to court, there's no way to rebuild the relationship and it's just about getting the best deal.


You can, You can quit and be in breach of contract and pay compensation to the club.

You can, same as above.

Now you finally agree it can go to tribunal.

You know Pen Penfras, admitting that you've been wrong about correcting someone and then apologising cleanses the soul. You should try it some time..

Like your constant digging at the fans re Hurst leaving. It's in black and white why he left..

Thought the new club mantra was "stronger together"?
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 15 - 22
MuddyWaters
May 8, 2018, 8:33pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 14,028
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +31,883
Gold Stars: 230
Quoted from Bigdog


You can, You can quit and be in breach of contract and pay compensation to the club.

You can, same as above.

Now you finally agree it can go to tribunal.

You know Pen Penfras, admitting that you've been wrong about correcting someone and then apologising cleanses the soul. You should try it some time..

Like your constant digging at the fans re Hurst leaving. It's in black and white why he left..

Thought the new club mantra was "stronger together"?


Not admitting you were wrong is a common trait around here.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 16 - 22
pen penfras
May 8, 2018, 8:40pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,677
Posts Per Day: 0.67
Reputation: 58.56%
Rep Score: +8 / -9
Approval: -137
Gold Stars: 71
Quoted from Bigdog


You can, You can quit and be in breach of contract and pay compensation to the club.

You can, same as above.

Now you finally agree it can go to tribunal.

You know Pen Penfras, admitting that you've been wrong about correcting someone and then apologising cleanses the soul. You should try it some time..


But you can't. Steve Bruce tried to do it and so did Alan Pardew. In both cases, a high court injunction was taken out which prevented it from happening until the clubs agreed a fee. Steve Bruce had a 9 month notice period in his contract.

I'm sure the manager would eventually get his own way and it would go to a tribunal, but it would take so much time to get to that point, that a club trying to hire a manager wouldn't want to wait months for the legal process as well as ultimately pay compensation and legal costs.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 17 - 22
Bigdog
May 8, 2018, 8:43pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,383
Posts Per Day: 1.14
Reputation: 93.81%
Rep Score: +36 / -1
Approval: +11,802
Gold Stars: 162
I give up, you win..
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 18 - 22
KingstonMariner
May 8, 2018, 10:49pm
Meths Drinker
Posts: 22,096
Posts Per Day: 6.12
Reputation: 79.33%
Rep Score: +42 / -11
Approval: +23,440
Gold Stars: 218
Quoted from Bigdog
I give up, you win..


No he flipping doesn't!

He's just pointed out that a manager who had a 9 month notice period (which if my maths if correct is longer than 6 months) could only be released from it on payment of compensation by the prospective new employer to the old one.

You've won and don't realise it!

Pen Penfras has lost and doesn't realise it. I hope to God he isn't a member of the board.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 19 - 22
Bigdog
May 8, 2018, 10:57pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,383
Posts Per Day: 1.14
Reputation: 93.81%
Rep Score: +36 / -1
Approval: +11,802
Gold Stars: 162
Quoted from KingstonMariner


No he flipping doesn't!

He's just pointed out that a manager who had a 9 month notice period (which if my maths if correct is longer than 6 months) could only be released from it on payment of compensation by the prospective new employer to the old one.

You've won and don't realise it!


Pen Penfras has lost and doesn't realise it. I hope to God he isn't a member of the board.


I knew KM, I was getting bored with justifying myself and trying to remain polite..

Thanks for backing me up!
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 20 - 22
KingstonMariner
May 8, 2018, 11:24pm
Meths Drinker
Posts: 22,096
Posts Per Day: 6.12
Reputation: 79.33%
Rep Score: +42 / -11
Approval: +23,440
Gold Stars: 218
Quoted from Bigdog


I knew KM, I was getting bored with justifying myself and trying to remain polite..

Thanks for backing me up!


  I know the feeling. That's how I used to end arguments with my ex-wife.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 21 - 22
toontown
May 9, 2018, 11:49pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,362
Posts Per Day: 0.56
Reputation: 91.63%
Rep Score: +13 / 0
Approval: +6,159
Gold Stars: 69
The only reason that Cowley is still at Lincoln is because the length and value of his and his brothers contracts would be inordinately expensive to compensate for. No club outside of the championship would be willing to pay it.

Hurst was on a 6 month rolling contract and a club at the very bottom of league 1 was able to take him away from us just a few months into his very first league season. And not a sleeping giant either, Shrewsbury.

Lincoln knew they had an outstanding manager on their hands and protected themselves from losing him, when they signed him on a long term deal I said at the time it was their best signing of the season. Under Fenty he would have long since left. As Fenty says, every time you sign a manager its a gamble, so if you have one who is definitely the business (which happens rarely) you need to do your very best to hang on to him...
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 22 - 22
3 Pages 1 2 3 All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Carlisle

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.