Lessons learned

Could this statement be a watershed moment?

JF realises he can't run the club like a fish factory
He doesn't surround himself with cronies and yes men
He understands the value of great support
Success can only happen when everyone pulls in the same direction
He backs MJ financially and early in the summer

We learn more from mistakes and losses so we ALL should be much wiser and stronger for next season.

I for one, am optimistic  for 18/19 and missing it already

And as for the altercation, I think most of us would have cracked well before now!

No. Did you read it and see his FGR moment? Both suggest no lessons have been learned.

If we're talking about our non-Chairman, this should be brief.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

No. Did you read it and see his FGR moment? Both suggest no lessons have been learned.

Yes, I read it and like most statements, you can pick out the positives or the negatives. That's down to us.

As much as I have hated this season albeit the last 6 weeks, I want to draw inspiration from anywhere I can.

The fact he just won't walk away and leave us at the edge of an ibis is a bonus for me.

Where are the takers?

It's not a binary thing. Some lessons have been learned but not as many as could have been. We all learn from our experiences  

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

The fact he just won't walk away and leave us at the edge of an ibis is a bonus for me.

Where are the takers?

This is one of the reasons he still feels he can cling to his power, by making enough people believe we need him.  We don't, it's that simple.  The only reason the club is in the position it is at present is because it is run in a shoddy manner.

Fenty hasn't needed to put any money into the club for a few years now, has managed to take money out of the club (which I don't object to as he put it in to start with) and we've still comfortably kept our heads above water....despite how badly run we are.  Imagine if we were smart enough to set appropriate budgets, stick to them and then try and maximise any profits with long-term thinking rather than just burying our heads in the sand and hoping?

For a successful businessman I find it worrying that Fenty can't grasp and indeed install some very basic principles to running the football club.

1) Work out a very conservative budget for the year based on ticket and merchandise sales, don't include cup runs or any other 'footballing fortune'.  Factor in any additional costs such as ground upkeep (numbers that will be readily available through previous years finances).  Even top slice a percentage off that budget if you want to be even more conservative.  
2) Stick to that budget.  Do not deviate from it.  
3) Use any profits appropriately as you see fit, put a percentage in the bank as a rainy day fund and reinvest the rest on either the development of the youth set-up, players from a lower level who have the potential to improve and be sold on for a significant profit or as a boost to next years budget/transfer kitty.
4) Repeat year-on-year.


Instead we appear to have:

1) Set a budget that appears to be very low, despite generating one of the top-10 highest gates in the league.
2) Show a lack of long-term thinking by signing players the wrong side of 30 who offer no sell-on value.
3) Panic and either chuck money (above the budget) at loan players who may/may not be of any benefit to the now over-inflated squad and/or sack the manager which then results in having to agree a settlement.
4) Repeat year-on-year.

Am I supposed to be grateful that Fenty is continuing to hold the fort?

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Yes, I read it and like most statements, you can pick out the positives or the negatives. That's down to us.

As much as I have hated this season albeit the last 6 weeks, I want to draw inspiration from anywhere I can.

The fact he just won't walk away and leave us at the edge of an ibis is a bonus for me.

Where are the takers?

There are no takers because he wants his loans back, which he has incurred due to his rank bad management. You cannot expect to get your money back for 15 or so years of failure, and quite rightly nobody will approach him because of the loans. His oft repeated mantra of "benign loans" only means whilst he has full and total control.

Our only hope is that we get footballing fortune, make a profit and he uses that to pay himself off.

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Yes, I read it and like most statements, you can pick out the positives or the negatives. That's down to us.

As much as I have hated this season albeit the last 6 weeks, I want to draw inspiration from anywhere I can.

The fact he just won't walk away and leave us at the edge of an ibis is a bonus for me.

Where are the takers?

People would be interested in taking the club on if it was offered without the loans. People have been interested in the past and have seen that people with money cannot work with the current board.  

Quoted from headingly_mariner

People would be interested in taking the club on if it was offered without the loans. People have been interested in the past and have seen that people with money cannot work with the current board.  

Who are "people " and if they're out there, why aren't they coming forward and saying as much?

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Who are "people " and if they're out there, why aren't they coming forward and saying as much?

Yeah, it’s not as if any businessman would invest 1 million before walking away. So I guess what we need is a lottery winner to invest.

Oh, hang on ........

And if anyone is prepared to buy my house for not only the market value, but also pay for all the bills I’ve paid since  being in it coz I want that back as well, I’ll give them JF’s e-mail address. 😄

Quoted from Civvy at last

Yeah, it’s not as if any businessman would invest 1 million before walking away. So I guess what we need is a lottery winner to invest.

Oh, hang on ........

And if anyone is prepared to buy my house for not only the market value, but also pay for all the bills I’ve paid since  being in it coz I want that back as well, I’ll give them JF’s e-mail address. 😄

Face it, there isn't anyone out there. I don't think

Unless you know different?

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Face it, there isn't anyone out there. I don't think

Unless you know different?

The club has 140 years of history. There are people with money who are and have been interested in the club. The loans and shares make it a 3million plus purchase which is absolutely ridiculous.

Fenty needs to publically make clear whether he is willing write his loans off (not just in his head) and whether he wants to retain any involvnent in the club.

Both of these things are rumoured to put people off and have never been clarified.

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Face it, there isn't anyone out there. I don't think

Unless you know different?

I don’t know different for sure. But I’m pretty certain virtually   no-one would be prepared to pay for Fenty’s mistakes.
We keep going round in circles with this one. JF keeps telling the world he wants to walk away.  But won’t publicly name his price. So although (as far as we know) there are no realistic bidders, we don’t know the asking price.  If it’s not realistic, he can tell the world the club is for sale, knowing full well no-one will buy it.  Two people have recently walked away despite investing in GTFC. So yes, I do believe there are people out there that would invest. Just not while JF is in control
and nothing to do with the toxic fans as ‘Mr Shutup’ would have us believe. !!!

Civvy mate
I 100% agree it has nothing to do with the fans, who as always have been a credit to the club and I was at the forum when Mr Shutup had his say, which was unforgivable.
However, I am frightened more that any vacuum left by JF will be more dangerous than him staying, hence my original post of learning from this mess and moving forward together as has been the mantra of MJ since his arrival and so far it has been working.
A new and early budget in the summer will be essential for him to mount any serious assault.

We wait to see if such lessons have been learned.

Fingers crossed

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Civvy mate
I 100% agree it has nothing to do with the fans, who as always have been a credit to the club and I was at the forum when Mr Shutup had his say, which was unforgivable.
However, I am frightened more that any vacuum left by JF will be more dangerous than him staying, hence my original post of learning from this mess and moving forward together as has been the mantra of MJ since his arrival and so far it has been working.
A new and early budget in the summer will be essential for him to mount any serious assault.

We wait to see if such lessons have been learned.

Fingers crossed

What vacuum? Unless JF gives away his shareholding & writes off his loans, there won't be a vacuum and I can't see either of those happening, let alone both.

Quoted from Cod Cheeks

Civvy mate
I 100% agree it has nothing to do with the fans, who as always have been a credit to the club and I was at the forum when Mr Shutup had his say, which was unforgivable.
However, I am frightened more that any vacuum left by JF will be more dangerous than him staying, hence my original post of learning from this mess and moving forward together as has been the mantra of MJ since his arrival and so far it has been working.
A new and early budget in the summer will be essential for him to mount any serious assault.

We wait to see if such lessons have been learned.

Fingers crossed

I think that sums up perfectly the differing views of the fans.

Some are so worried about change that they prefer to stick whilst others want change because they believe things should have been, and will be, so much better without John Fenty.

You pays your money.......

Quoted from headingly_mariner

The club has 140 years of history. There are people with money who are and have been interested in the club. The loans and shares make it a 3million plus purchase which is absolutely ridiculous.

Fenty needs to publically make clear whether he is willing write his loans off (not just in his head) and whether he wants to retain any involvnent in the club.

Both of these things are rumoured to put people off and have never been clarified.

WHO? names please

Quoted from headingly_mariner

The club has 140 years of history. There are people with money who are and have been interested in the club. The loans and shares make it a 3million plus purchase which is absolutely ridiculous.

Fenty needs to publically make clear whether he is willing write his loans off (not just in his head) and whether he wants to retain any involvnent in the club.

Both of these things are rumoured to put people off and have never been clarified.

IMO £3 million isn't a ridiculous price for a league club with the potential GTFC has, if run properly.

Quoted from rancido

IMO £3 million isn't a ridiculous price for a league club with the potential GTFC has, if run properly.

Why doesn't JF run it properly then and unlock this potential?

This is what (well one of the things) that bugs me. He is in the enviable position of being in sole control of a football league club with, as you say, real potential but does nothing with it. No investment on or off the field and continually fighting fires is not the way to give yourself a chance of getting your money back or making us more marketable.

Quoted from rancido

IMO £3 million isn't a ridiculous price for a league club with the potential GTFC has, if run properly.

Are you buying 100% of the club or Mr Fenty's 43%?

Quoted from rancido

IMO £3 million isn't a ridiculous price for a league club with the potential GTFC has, if run properly.

Of course it is. The current administration have unlocked nowt in 20 years. The club needs investment to unlock its potential.

Lesson learned?

Don't buy a season ticket when Slade is the manager.

Maybe we have to learn to endure JSF not as an evil Oyston-esque dictator, but more of a well-meaning yet haplessly self-unaware character, a bit like Roy Chubby Brown's Mayor Vaughan, of Royston Vasey.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

Maybe we have to learn to endure JSF not as an evil Oyston-esque dictator, but more of a well-meaning yet haplessly self-unaware character, a bit like Roy Chubby Brown's Mayor Vaughan, of Royston Vasey.

Basil Fawlty.

Unlock Town's potential? We only just escaped relegation.If it was as simple as just throwing a few million at it why are there so many clubs struggling to survive. It's probably one of the most toxic business' to be in as very little is predictable and support income can be oh so fickle.Even companies in well worn markets with good income streams suffer from down turns because of unseen influences.The money John Fenty has put into the club is a very considerable amount and way beyond 99.9% of supporters yet a minority still keep harping on as though it is small change,which it certainly is not. As I've stated before  I firmly believe Ramsden (who also didn't have much support from fans) saw him coming and baled out asap. Mr Fenty has his faults -as do all of us- but without his cash input the club probably would have gone to the wall by now.  

Quoted from Stranger in the Park

Unlock Town's potential? We only just escaped relegation.If it was as simple as just throwing a few million at it why are there so many clubs struggling to survive. It's probably one of the most toxic business' to be in as very little is predictable and support income can be oh so fickle.Even companies in well worn markets with good income streams suffer from down turns because of unseen influences.The money John Fenty has put into the club is a very considerable amount and way beyond 99.9% of supporters yet a minority still keep harping on as though it is small change,which it certainly is not. As I've stated before  I firmly believe Ramsden (who also didn't have much support from fans) saw him coming and baled out asap. Mr Fenty has his faults -as do all of us- but without his cash input the club probably would have gone to the wall by now.  

I doubt it. We are too old a club with too many supporters to perish. We would exist in some form, maybe in a worse state than we are now, or maybe in a far better state. People talk like JF is the only custodian this club has ever had, when he's only been around for about 10% of our history. There were people before him and there will be people after him.

The second paragraph in this Codalmighty article puts a different spin on our financial saviour.

http://www.codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=6711

I can't see how any lessons have been learned. John Fenty's ideas of engagement with fans is to tell them why he made the decisions he did and that they would of done the same in his position.

That was what he essentially was telling fans on Saturday and that is also what the statement is dripping with. His idea of connecting with supporters is telling them why he was right. So Frankly I don't even see the start of any lessons being learnt. I hope to be proved wrong.

As for Fenty keeping this club afloat, look at the number of clubs with similar gates to  ours who are doing better than us, then look at the number of clubs with similar or bigger gates doing worse. The only category in the latter camps I can think of are Chesterfield and Tranmere, while the list of clubs in the former category are quite long.

Quoted from HackneyHaddock

Maybe we have to learn to endure JSF not as an evil Oyston-esque dictator, but more of a well-meaning yet haplessly self-unaware character, a bit like Roy Chubby Brown's Mayor Vaughan, of Royston Vasey.

Not so far fetched as it may seem as JSF & Chubby share a family connection.

Quoted from Caesar

I can't see how any lessons have been learned. John Fenty's ideas of engagement with fans is to tell them why he made the decisions he did and that they would of done the same in his position.

That was what he essentially was telling fans on Saturday and that is also what the statement is dripping with. His idea of connecting with supporters is telling them why he was right. So Frankly I don't even see the start of any lessons being learnt. I hope to be proved wrong.

As for Fenty keeping this club afloat, look at the number of clubs with similar gates to  ours who are doing better than us, then look at the number of clubs with similar or bigger gates doing worse. The only category in the latter camps I can think of are Chesterfield and Tranmere, while the list of clubs in the former category are quite long.

100%

As far as lessons learned, only lesson i hope has been learned is sign POTY before someone else does.

Quoted from Caesar

As for Fenty keeping this club afloat, look at the number of clubs with similar gates to  ours who are doing better than us, then look at the number of clubs with similar or bigger gates doing worse. The only category in the latter camps I can think of are Chesterfield and Tranmere, while the list of clubs in the former category are quite long.

It's a bit misleading just looking at gates though. Those clubs who have built new grounds have additional income that we don't because we don't have the facilities. Annual turnover is a better yardstick than average attendance if you want to see how Town compare with other teams.

Anyone who thinks that statement means lessons have been learned is just naive and probably, quite frankly need their head testing. How many times have we seen similar statements? Even once would indicate a problem but the fact that we've had numerous statements all saying a similar thing show that there really is a major problem.

It's all just words, again. Fenty trying to cover his own back after being caught out showing his true colours. Again. Same story, statement like that released, everyone for some reason buys into it, 4 months time we're in the same situation again. I don't trust Fenty at all and never will, no matter what happens on the pitch. I will never forgive him for almost killing OUR club. If we're to succeed then we need a board that are as forward thinking and progressive as Michael Jolley, unlike the dinosaur age dictatorial incompetents we currently have - if not we'll just constantly be taking 1 step forward and 10 back.

JF has put £3m in.

In the past sixteen years GTFC has turned over roughly £40m including gifts from the Trust and MP. If you add say £3m lost revenue by dropping into non-league to the £40m, that makes £43m. What percentage of a total of £46m (including JF's £3m) is JF's contribution?

It's 6.5%.

So the question isn't about JF saving the club, it's about whether over the long term the club could have been more effectively run by someone else without 6.5% additional income from his loan and shares over that period. And let's not forget he wants the money back too.

In three years time JF's monetary input will be projected to be under 5% over the whole period, and then lower and lower as the years tick by.

Casting our minds back, with a different owner, could the club have made efficiencies along the way with better decisions and fan engagement to save £3m? Everyone will have their own opinion on that.

£3m is a lot of money for one person granted, especially from a normal person's point of view. But in the grand scheme of things for a football club it becomes less and less significant as the years pass.

Sixteen years on, is it really fair or reasonable for an owner to be unapologetic about anything and still have a stranglehold over the club without any tangible progress off the field? And as yet none on it?

Is it fair that any potential investor has to stump up £3m (lump or payment plan) before investing anything into the club?

JF has had 16 years to turn GTFC into a bigger saleable asset than the less than £1m true value on paper as it stands today and has not done so. What evidence have we got of that changing in the next few years or even the next sixteen? We waited fifteen years for a Bogle.

As Jolley embarks upon hopefully an upturn in fortunes on field next season we desperately need GTFC to take strides forward off it to transform our club.

Harking back to 2002 every time JF comes under pressure does our club's future no service, and it's this way of thinking by the man himself and some of the fans that holds this club back.

The figures don't lie..

Do we settle for a short lived (in relative terms) feel good factor with Jolley or push for a joined up long lasting feel good factor that covers all aspects of the club?

Quoted from GrimRob

It's a bit misleading just looking at gates though. Those clubs who have built new grounds have additional income that we don't because we don't have the facilities. Annual turnover is a better yardstick than average attendance if you want to see how Town compare with other teams.

Fair enough but I would argue average gates give you a good guide as to size and stature of a club. Our gates suggested when we were flying high under Buckley we were punching above our weight and when languishing mid tabe in the conference  we were not meeting our potential, and I think we can agree that was probably the case.

As for the facilities equals more money argument and that leads to success I think the fact that the bottom 3 all in our league all had new grounds presumably with additional facilities while the top 2 most certainly didn't.

Quoted from Bigdog

JF has put £3m in.

In the past sixteen years GTFC has turned over roughly £40m including gifts from the Trust and MP. If you add say £3m lost revenue by dropping into non-league to the £40m, that makes £43m. What percentage of a total of £46m (including JF's £3m) is JF's contribution?

It's 6.5%.

So the question isn't about JF saving the club, it's about whether over the long term the club could have been more effectively run by someone else without 6.5% additional income from his loan over and shares that period. And let's not forget he wants the money back too.

In three years time JF's monetary input will be projected to be under 5% over the whole period, and then lower and lower as the years tick by.

Casting our minds back, with a different owner, could the club have made efficiencies along the way with better decisions and fan engagement to save £3m? Everyone will have their own opinion on that.

£3m is a lot of money for one person granted, especially from a normal person's point of view. But in the grand scheme of things for a football club it becomes less and less significant as the years pass.

Is it enough sixteen years on for an owner to be unapologetic about anything and still have a stranglehold over the club without any tangible progress off the field? And as yet none on it?

Is it fair that any potential investor has to stump up £3m (lump or payment plan) before investing anything into the club?

JF has had 16 years to turn GTFC into a bigger saleable asset than the less than £1m as it stands on paper and not done so. What evidence have we got of that changing in the next few years or even the next sixteen? We waited fifteen years for a Bogle.

As Jolley embarks upon hopefully an upturn in fortunes on field next season we desperately need the club to take strides forward off it to transform our club.

Harking back to 2002 every time JF comes under pressure does our club's future no service, and it's this way of thinking by the man himself and some of the fans that holds this club back.

The figures don't lie..

Do we settle for a short lived (in relative terms) feel good factor with Jolley or push for a joined up long lasting feel good factor that covers all aspects of the club?

I have been saying for a long time it is scandalous that one man can have 16 years (going on for many more by the look of it) complete control of the clubs destiny. None of his loans would have been needed with better management of the club, which lets face it has been by any measure so bad it is almost comical.

Complete control which has taken us absolutely nowhere except league 2 relegation scraps, non league and back to league 2 relegation scrap. He even has the cushion of wanting his loans back for such outstanding progress!

Like you say if we don't change fundamentally any success with Jolley will be short lived. Jolley's relationship with Fenty will break down as sure as eggs are eggs, it is just a matter of when it happens. I hope it is after we get a bit of success with Jolley but I would not even bank on that. Jolleys vision (and expense) will be very different to the owners.

Quoted from ginnywings

I doubt it. We are too old a club with too many supporters to perish. We would exist in some form, maybe in a worse state than we are now, or maybe in a far better state. People talk like JF is the only custodian this club has ever had, when he's only been around for about 10% of our history. There were people before him and there will be people after him.

The second paragraph in this Codalmighty article puts a different spin on our financial saviour.

http://www.codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=6711

"He saved us from the taxman when we owed £700k. Yet now we owe £2million. To him. That's some rescue. Like saving a drowning man by lassoing him round the neck and giving the rope a good yank."

That's a pretty good analogy to be fair...

Quoted from GrimRob

It's a bit misleading just looking at gates though. Those clubs who have built new grounds have additional income that we don't because we don't have the facilities. Annual turnover is a better yardstick than average attendance if you want to see how Town compare with other teams.

Like Chesterfield and Darlington?

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Like Chesterfield and Darlington?

There's plenty of clubs dropped down into non-league who are a similar size or bigger than us (Oxford, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Lincoln, Wrexham). It's not particularly notable or surprising that we did drop to that level given the sort of teams that have played and still play there. I'd say we "belong" in the top half of League 2 but it's probable we will go both up and down again in the next 20 years. I don't expect to see us ever again compete in the Championship unless we move away from Blundell Park.

Quoted from GrimRob

There's plenty of clubs dropped down into non-league who are a similar size or bigger than us (Oxford, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Lincoln, Wrexham). It's not particularly notable or surprising that we did drop to that level given the sort of teams that have played and still play there. I'd say we "belong" in the top half of League 2 but it's probable we will go both up and down again in the next 20 years. I don't expect to see us ever again compete in the Championship unless we move away from Blundell Park.

plus Stockport, Darlington and Hereford.

not impossible to get back to Championship Rob - Scunts & Burton made it and Shrews are having a decent stab at it this season. and none of their support base are any bigger than ours

Quoted from forza ivano

plus Stockport, Darlington and Hereford.

not impossible to get back to Championship Rob - Scunts & Burton made it and Shrews are having a decent stab at it this season. and none of their support base are any bigger than ours

Not impossible, but all of those teams have new stadia. When was the last time a team with an attendance less than 8,000 playing at a traditional ground made it to the top two divisions?

Quoted from GrimRob

Not impossible, but all of those teams have new stadia. When was the last time a team with an attendance less than 8,000 playing at a traditional ground made it to the top two divisions?

i don't see that that fact has much relevance - Burton's ground is hardly shangri - la is it?.
Far more important is getting a good manager and the right blend of players

Quoted from GrimRob

There's plenty of clubs dropped down into non-league who are a similar size or bigger than us (Oxford, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Lincoln, Wrexham). It's not particularly notable or surprising that we did drop to that level given the sort of teams that have played and still play there. I'd say we "belong" in the top half of League 2 but it's probable we will go both up and down again in the next 20 years. I don't expect to see us ever again compete in the Championship unless we move away from Blundell Park.

I’m not expecting us to be in the championship. New clubs that have done well in a new ground have also spent heavily on their squads.  

Do people actually believe that a new ground at PP will bring the club significant year round revenue?
We don’t fill the ground we’ve got and that’s not because we don’t have a shiny. It’s because we have a shite team and s board of directors that are waiting for some good luck. Our attendances are great for this level even though we aren’t very good. Can you imagine the crowds if people felt the board provided an ambitious budget, if maybe we paid a couple of fees.
I get the feeling the ground will be in the wrong place and will be built with the wrong intentions.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Can you imagine the crowds if people felt the board provided an ambitious budget, if maybe we paid a couple of fees.

You mean like Lincoln down the road?  In their brand new, state of the art, all singing all dancing purpose built stadium?

Was it the show of ambition and capitalising on the euphoria around the football club that saw them achieve record season ticket sales, or was it the new carpet they put down in the Corner Spot bar?

Quoted from Stranger in the Park

Unlock Town's potential? We only just escaped relegation.If it was as simple as just throwing a few million at it why are there so many clubs struggling to survive. It's probably one of the most toxic business' to be in as very little is predictable and support income can be oh so fickle.Even companies in well worn markets with good income streams suffer from down turns because of unseen influences.The money John Fenty has put into the club is a very considerable amount and way beyond 99.9% of supporters yet a minority still keep harping on as though it is small change,which it certainly is not. As I've stated before  I firmly believe Ramsden (who also didn't have much support from fans) saw him coming and baled out asap. Mr Fenty has his faults -as do all of us- but without his cash input the club probably would have gone to the wall by now.  

In case the message Ginny posted hasn't sunk in, to quote that Codalmighty diary again:

'He saved us from the taxman when we owed £700k. Yet now we owe £2million. To him. That's some rescue. Like saving a drowning man by lassoing him round the neck and giving the rope a good yank.'

Case closed.