Lessons learned

Quoted from Caesar

As for Fenty keeping this club afloat, look at the number of clubs with similar gates to  ours who are doing better than us, then look at the number of clubs with similar or bigger gates doing worse. The only category in the latter camps I can think of are Chesterfield and Tranmere, while the list of clubs in the former category are quite long.

It's a bit misleading just looking at gates though. Those clubs who have built new grounds have additional income that we don't because we don't have the facilities. Annual turnover is a better yardstick than average attendance if you want to see how Town compare with other teams.

Anyone who thinks that statement means lessons have been learned is just naive and probably, quite frankly need their head testing. How many times have we seen similar statements? Even once would indicate a problem but the fact that we've had numerous statements all saying a similar thing show that there really is a major problem.

It's all just words, again. Fenty trying to cover his own back after being caught out showing his true colours. Again. Same story, statement like that released, everyone for some reason buys into it, 4 months time we're in the same situation again. I don't trust Fenty at all and never will, no matter what happens on the pitch. I will never forgive him for almost killing OUR club. If we're to succeed then we need a board that are as forward thinking and progressive as Michael Jolley, unlike the dinosaur age dictatorial incompetents we currently have - if not we'll just constantly be taking 1 step forward and 10 back.

JF has put £3m in.

In the past sixteen years GTFC has turned over roughly £40m including gifts from the Trust and MP. If you add say £3m lost revenue by dropping into non-league to the £40m, that makes £43m. What percentage of a total of £46m (including JF's £3m) is JF's contribution?

It's 6.5%.

So the question isn't about JF saving the club, it's about whether over the long term the club could have been more effectively run by someone else without 6.5% additional income from his loan and shares over that period. And let's not forget he wants the money back too.

In three years time JF's monetary input will be projected to be under 5% over the whole period, and then lower and lower as the years tick by.

Casting our minds back, with a different owner, could the club have made efficiencies along the way with better decisions and fan engagement to save £3m? Everyone will have their own opinion on that.

£3m is a lot of money for one person granted, especially from a normal person's point of view. But in the grand scheme of things for a football club it becomes less and less significant as the years pass.

Sixteen years on, is it really fair or reasonable for an owner to be unapologetic about anything and still have a stranglehold over the club without any tangible progress off the field? And as yet none on it?

Is it fair that any potential investor has to stump up £3m (lump or payment plan) before investing anything into the club?

JF has had 16 years to turn GTFC into a bigger saleable asset than the less than £1m true value on paper as it stands today and has not done so. What evidence have we got of that changing in the next few years or even the next sixteen? We waited fifteen years for a Bogle.

As Jolley embarks upon hopefully an upturn in fortunes on field next season we desperately need GTFC to take strides forward off it to transform our club.

Harking back to 2002 every time JF comes under pressure does our club's future no service, and it's this way of thinking by the man himself and some of the fans that holds this club back.

The figures don't lie..

Do we settle for a short lived (in relative terms) feel good factor with Jolley or push for a joined up long lasting feel good factor that covers all aspects of the club?

Quoted from GrimRob

It's a bit misleading just looking at gates though. Those clubs who have built new grounds have additional income that we don't because we don't have the facilities. Annual turnover is a better yardstick than average attendance if you want to see how Town compare with other teams.

Fair enough but I would argue average gates give you a good guide as to size and stature of a club. Our gates suggested when we were flying high under Buckley we were punching above our weight and when languishing mid tabe in the conference  we were not meeting our potential, and I think we can agree that was probably the case.

As for the facilities equals more money argument and that leads to success I think the fact that the bottom 3 all in our league all had new grounds presumably with additional facilities while the top 2 most certainly didn't.

Quoted from Bigdog

JF has put £3m in.

In the past sixteen years GTFC has turned over roughly £40m including gifts from the Trust and MP. If you add say £3m lost revenue by dropping into non-league to the £40m, that makes £43m. What percentage of a total of £46m (including JF's £3m) is JF's contribution?

It's 6.5%.

So the question isn't about JF saving the club, it's about whether over the long term the club could have been more effectively run by someone else without 6.5% additional income from his loan over and shares that period. And let's not forget he wants the money back too.

In three years time JF's monetary input will be projected to be under 5% over the whole period, and then lower and lower as the years tick by.

Casting our minds back, with a different owner, could the club have made efficiencies along the way with better decisions and fan engagement to save £3m? Everyone will have their own opinion on that.

£3m is a lot of money for one person granted, especially from a normal person's point of view. But in the grand scheme of things for a football club it becomes less and less significant as the years pass.

Is it enough sixteen years on for an owner to be unapologetic about anything and still have a stranglehold over the club without any tangible progress off the field? And as yet none on it?

Is it fair that any potential investor has to stump up £3m (lump or payment plan) before investing anything into the club?

JF has had 16 years to turn GTFC into a bigger saleable asset than the less than £1m as it stands on paper and not done so. What evidence have we got of that changing in the next few years or even the next sixteen? We waited fifteen years for a Bogle.

As Jolley embarks upon hopefully an upturn in fortunes on field next season we desperately need the club to take strides forward off it to transform our club.

Harking back to 2002 every time JF comes under pressure does our club's future no service, and it's this way of thinking by the man himself and some of the fans that holds this club back.

The figures don't lie..

Do we settle for a short lived (in relative terms) feel good factor with Jolley or push for a joined up long lasting feel good factor that covers all aspects of the club?

I have been saying for a long time it is scandalous that one man can have 16 years (going on for many more by the look of it) complete control of the clubs destiny. None of his loans would have been needed with better management of the club, which lets face it has been by any measure so bad it is almost comical.

Complete control which has taken us absolutely nowhere except league 2 relegation scraps, non league and back to league 2 relegation scrap. He even has the cushion of wanting his loans back for such outstanding progress!

Like you say if we don't change fundamentally any success with Jolley will be short lived. Jolley's relationship with Fenty will break down as sure as eggs are eggs, it is just a matter of when it happens. I hope it is after we get a bit of success with Jolley but I would not even bank on that. Jolleys vision (and expense) will be very different to the owners.

Quoted from ginnywings

I doubt it. We are too old a club with too many supporters to perish. We would exist in some form, maybe in a worse state than we are now, or maybe in a far better state. People talk like JF is the only custodian this club has ever had, when he's only been around for about 10% of our history. There were people before him and there will be people after him.

The second paragraph in this Codalmighty article puts a different spin on our financial saviour.

http://www.codalmighty.com/site/ca.php?article=6711

"He saved us from the taxman when we owed £700k. Yet now we owe £2million. To him. That's some rescue. Like saving a drowning man by lassoing him round the neck and giving the rope a good yank."

That's a pretty good analogy to be fair...

Quoted from GrimRob

It's a bit misleading just looking at gates though. Those clubs who have built new grounds have additional income that we don't because we don't have the facilities. Annual turnover is a better yardstick than average attendance if you want to see how Town compare with other teams.

Like Chesterfield and Darlington?

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Like Chesterfield and Darlington?

There's plenty of clubs dropped down into non-league who are a similar size or bigger than us (Oxford, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Lincoln, Wrexham). It's not particularly notable or surprising that we did drop to that level given the sort of teams that have played and still play there. I'd say we "belong" in the top half of League 2 but it's probable we will go both up and down again in the next 20 years. I don't expect to see us ever again compete in the Championship unless we move away from Blundell Park.

Quoted from GrimRob

There's plenty of clubs dropped down into non-league who are a similar size or bigger than us (Oxford, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Hartlepool, Chesterfield, Lincoln, Wrexham). It's not particularly notable or surprising that we did drop to that level given the sort of teams that have played and still play there. I'd say we "belong" in the top half of League 2 but it's probable we will go both up and down again in the next 20 years. I don't expect to see us ever again compete in the Championship unless we move away from Blundell Park.

plus Stockport, Darlington and Hereford.

not impossible to get back to Championship Rob - Scunts & Burton made it and Shrews are having a decent stab at it this season. and none of their support base are any bigger than ours

Quoted from forza ivano

plus Stockport, Darlington and Hereford.

not impossible to get back to Championship Rob - Scunts & Burton made it and Shrews are having a decent stab at it this season. and none of their support base are any bigger than ours

Not impossible, but all of those teams have new stadia. When was the last time a team with an attendance less than 8,000 playing at a traditional ground made it to the top two divisions?