The Future

This is the new crop of Neil Woods youngsters - will any of them make it? https://www.grimsby-townfc.co.uk/news/2018/april/meet-the-new-scholars/. Who was the last player to come through the youth system? Why do we have these token youth signings every year, players that are obviously not good enough? Is it even worth having an academy?  

Posters on here talk about investment in the club but surely a Youth Policy is the best form of investment. If you don't have a Youth System then you have no opportunity to find local talent and benefit from it. Yes, you may go a few seasons  without unearthing a diamond but then you might. There have been many examples of local youths becoming part of the first team set-up and flourishing. You only have to look at our assistant manager to see one example and there are too many to itemize here.

“Who was the last player to come through the youth system?”

Clifton?

What has happened with Akheem Rose - the forgotten one ???

Seems like most of them aren’t local lads at all, few from the north east, London and even one from the USA. Shows the club are casting their net wider to bring in young players.

Quoted from acko338

What has happened with Akheem Rose - the forgotten one ???

There is supposed to be some sort of work permit tribunal some time in April - we've not heard anything at all from the club so assume its going to be some time in the next 10 days.

If we get approval would it be worth throwing him into one of the last 2 games, given the problem we have scoring goals up front would surely be worth a gamble.

Imagine him getting the all clear before Fgr game and scoring a winner off the bench to keep us up  

I know this may not be popular amongst local lads, but I would question whether clubs at gtfc level should run youth teams. If the council turn down planning application for PP, there is no case for the youth setup to continue.

Having said that my pals and I will be entering a team for the development golf day in July, so we are doing something to help fund the youth.

Hope to see Max Wright tomorrow and have to reassess thoughts.

Quoted from IlkleyMariner

I know this may not be popular amongst local lads, but I would question whether clubs at gtfc level should run youth teams. If the council turn down planning application for PP, there is no case for the youth setup to continue.

Having said that my pals and I will be entering a team for the development golf day in July, so we are doing something to help fund the youth.

Hope to see Max Wright tomorrow and have to reassess thoughts.

We have this argument from time to time and my opinion is always no we shouldn't bother with a youth team or younger teams.

Just let them enjoy their football in local leagues and invite some for trial games when they are 16/17/18, either from here or further afield.

For me there are far too many variables involved in young players. Some are fantastic at 10, rubbish at 14. Some are rubbish at 10, and pretty good at 14. They can go from being big and strong and scoring 100 goals a season in a certain age group yet can't score any when other kids catch them up in physical size.Very very few are good enough when it matters - between 18 and 24 and beyond. Any truly exceptional talent (or exceptional for that age group) will be lured by bigger clubs anyway, so we are often left with whats the best of the rest.

Then we have the problem of different youth coaches looking for different things, in accordance with the first team managers wishes; a Buckley will want all ball players, certain other managers might want pace and physique and wouldn't be too bothered whether he can trap a bag of cement. A change of manager and everything goes out of the window.

Some players go all the way through to first year pros yet the vast  majority of even those are rejected. Is it really worth it?

It is just a personal opinion but I think a series of trial games would probably yield better results. It doesn't matter how good a young player is in their formative years - all that matters from a professional clubs point of view is that he is good enough when it matters when he can break into the first team.

Quoted from lukeo

Imagine him getting the all clear before Fgr game and scoring a winner off the bench to keep us up  

That would be great Luke, though it looks like you got a couple of crosses for that suggestion so I guess some people wouldn't like it if he scored the winner off the bench at FGR to keep us up, lol.

Maybe you are too positive - the mind boggles

Its difficult for clubs to blood these youg uns when we have depth of talent in the first team like Berret and Dixon!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We have this argument from time to time and my opinion is always no we shouldn't bother with a youth team or younger teams.

Just let them enjoy their football in local leagues and invite some for trial games when they are 16/17/18, either from here or further afield.

For me there are far too many variables involved in young players. Some are fantastic at 10, rubbish at 14. Some are rubbish at 10, and pretty good at 14. They can go from being big and strong and scoring 100 goals a season in a certain age group yet can't score any when other kids catch them up in physical size.Very very few are good enough when it matters - between 18 and 24 and beyond. Any truly exceptional talent (or exceptional for that age group) will be lured by bigger clubs anyway, so we are often left with whats the best of the rest.

Then we have the problem of different youth coaches looking for different things, in accordance with the first team managers wishes; a Buckley will want all ball players, certain other managers might want pace and physique and wouldn't be too bothered whether he can trap a bag of cement. A change of manager and everything goes out of the window.

Some players go all the way through to first year pros yet the vast  majority of even those are rejected. Is it really worth it?

It is just a personal opinion but I think a series of trial games would probably yield better results. It doesn't matter how good a young player is in their formative years - all that matters from a professional clubs point of view is that he is good enough when it matters when he can break into the first team.

Re: the bit in bold - I'm pretty sure the kids in academies enjoy their football too. In fact having seen plenty of games in local league's where coaches and parents are screaming their heads off at players and young referees, some (Not all) of the grassroots football doesn't actually seem that enjoyable.


A couple of clubs (Brentford and Huddersfield) have reduced their academies to just u18 teams. But I don't think it'd work for us. Their geographic situation is much different to ours.

If we did it, would we not be doing what people criticise us for doing at senior level every summer. Wait too long, penny pinch, and sign whatever's left at the end once everyone else has had their picks.

All the talented local lads would go to Lincoln/Scunny/Hull instead of them going through our academy.  They wouldn't just sit here in grassroots football waiting to be picked up by us at 18.

And as several posters often point out when this debate comes up - we'd lose the massive link to the community that it gives us. Keeps so many families involved with and attached to the club. Maybe making some fans for life.

Quoted from lukeo

Imagine him getting the all clear before Fgr game and scoring a winner off the bench to keep us up  

Chiiiiiiiiima

Quoted from Tommy

Re: the bit in bold - I'm pretty sure the kids in academies enjoy their football too. In fact having seen plenty of games in local league's where coaches and parents are screaming their heads off at players and young referees, some (Not all) of the grassroots football doesn't actually seem that enjoyable.


A couple of clubs (Brentford and Huddersfield) have reduced their academies to just u18 teams. But I don't think it'd work for us. Their geographic situation is much different to ours.

If we did it, would we not be doing what people criticise us for doing at senior level every summer. Wait too long, penny pinch, and sign whatever's left at the end once everyone else has had their picks.

All the talented local lads would go to Lincoln/Scunny/Hull instead of them going through our academy.  They wouldn't just sit here in grassroots football waiting to be picked up by us at 18.

And as several posters often point out when this debate comes up - we'd lose the massive link to the community that it gives us. Keeps so many families involved with and attached to the club. Maybe making some fans for life.

I think Brentford and Huddersfield have got it right. I see the argument for the community factor, but I don't think the numbers are sufficient enough to keep a fully fledged youth system in place.

I reiterate - the only age group that matters (purely in terms of players ready for the first team) is at age 18 or so to keep players involved from a very young age is basically a waste of time.

I am trying to look at this from the point of view of a professional club and in this instance I am ignoring the community aspect and the joy of youngsters being involved with their local club. If other posters think this is a good enough reason to retain a youth system fair enough, but to invest time and money on kids that are great at various age groups but when push comes to shove at age 18 are not good enough seems a waste.

To put it at its most basic (despite having the requisite skill sets) the most important thing is that a player can take the physical demands of being a pro footballer and obviously that is not known till they are in the 17/18 age bracket, so why spend any amount of time on players that may not have the desired physical attributes or indeed the mental side?

Does anyone know how many goals akeem Rose has scored in the youths? I don’t recall hearing about anything particularly amazing that would warrant a call upto the first team, but I may have missed it.

He hasn't been playing for the Youths R.E.B.
He's 19 so can't play for the u18s. Don't think he'd be able to anyway without having permission to work.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I think Brentford and Huddersfield have got it right. I see the argument for the community factor, but I don't think the numbers are sufficient enough to keep a fully fledged youth system in place.

I reiterate - the only age group that matters (purely in terms of players ready for the first team) is at age 18 or so to keep players involved from a very young age is basically a waste of time.

I am trying to look at this from the point of view of a professional club and in this instance I am ignoring the community aspect and the joy of youngsters being involved with their local club. If other posters think this is a good enough reason to retain a youth system fair enough, but to invest time and money on kids that are great at various age groups but when push comes to shove at age 18 are not good enough seems a waste.

To put it at its most basic (despite having the requisite skill sets) the most important thing is that a player can take the physical demands of being a pro footballer and obviously that is not known till they are in the 17/18 age bracket, so why spend any amount of time on players that may not have the desired physical attributes or indeed the mental side?

Where do the 4000 or so Pro footballers come from? Yes, nowadays some come from overseas but a fair number are English lads, many of which have played up through academies. Why can't GTFC produce a player or two now they have a proper set up for the first time in years.

Personally I would be horrified if we didn't give local lads the chance to dream of playing for Town. Football is cyclical and maybe Town will have a run of producing players again

Quoted from Tommy

He hasn't been playing for the Youths R.E.B.
He's 19 so can't play for the u18s. Don't think he'd be able to anyway without having permission to work.

And people are saying he could make the bench in the last game ?

Romantic Notion😴

Quoted from Tommy

Re: the bit in bold - I'm pretty sure the kids in academies enjoy their football too. In fact having seen plenty of games in local league's where coaches and parents are screaming their heads off at players and young referees, some (Not all) of the grassroots football doesn't actually seem that enjoyable.


A couple of clubs (Brentford and Huddersfield) have reduced their academies to just u18 teams. But I don't think it'd work for us. Their geographic situation is much different to ours.

If we did it, would we not be doing what people criticise us for doing at senior level every summer. Wait too long, penny pinch, and sign whatever's left at the end once everyone else has had their picks.

All the talented local lads would go to Lincoln/Scunny/Hull instead of them going through our academy.  They wouldn't just sit here in grassroots football waiting to be picked up by us at 18.

And as several posters often point out when this debate comes up - we'd lose the massive link to the community that it gives us. Keeps so many families involved with and attached to the club. Maybe making some fans for life.

Are they that attached, with so many coming from out of town surely their main interest is in watching their son play and if they end up getting released will they want to stay and watch the first team?

The other day on Rose's Instagram it looked like he has had his tribunal this week

Quoted from arryarryarry

Are they that attached, with so many coming from out of town surely their main interest is in watching their son play and if they end up getting released will they want to stay and watch the first team?

I'd guess you're probably referring to the intake of scholars for next season that are mainly from out of the area.

I'd suggest this is an exception to the norm and isn't a reflection on the rest of the age group sides. Neither will it be a reflection of what they want the make up of first year YT's to look like every year.

Personally just think the system starts at too young an age which is detrimental financially for clubs our size and psychologically for kids involved.

We have to remember that once a child is part of this system at the age of 9 or younger in some cases they are no longer allowed to play for their school. Their region or for clubs with their mates. I have a lad of 11 and 2 of his mates have just withdrawn from academies at Lincoln & Forest because of this very reason plus the level of commitment they need to give at such. A young age.

I would much rather see the clubs start taking on kids at the under 15 stage when there is much more evidence of how their potential has developed and would allow them the “ freedom” to develop their talent naturally rather than have it coached into their psyche.

Actual results for having a youth process suggest it is from a professional stand point not great value for money but also accept it may have some community benefits, that said no reason why a professional club should not run community projects anyway funded by the FA.

Certainly remember in the mid 1970’s playing against Louth Reserves in the Lincs League and their team included a young Terry Donovan and Glen Cockerill and they certainly did ok coming up via that route although local soccer leagues unfortunately are pretty non- existent nowadays.

Quoted from Cloudy

Where do the 4000 or so Pro footballers come from? Yes, nowadays some come from overseas but a fair number are English lads, many of which have played up through academies. Why can't GTFC produce a player or two now they have a proper set up for the first time in years.

Personally I would be horrified if we didn't give local lads the chance to dream of playing for Town. Football is cyclical and maybe Town will have a run of producing players again

In the nearly 60 years I have been going to BP there has been a mere handful of very good local players. Most of them were donkeys years ago well before the big club academy systems came into being, and before the road network system made it easier for the better youngsters to get to those clubs.

The practical experience tells you that virtually all the better players in their age groups will be snapped up by bigger clubs, with better facilities and more of a pull factor. It is just a fact of life.

No doubt there will be youngsters who are Town through and through who will pull a first team shirt on in the years to come, and good luck to them but I think the argument centres on how we get those players - and is it worth having teams of varying age groups that in the end produce next to no first team material?

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Personally just think the system starts at too young an age which is detrimental financially for clubs our size and psychologically for kids involved.

We have to remember that once a child is part of this system at the age of 9 or younger in some cases they are no longer allowed to play for their school. Their region or for clubs with their mates. I have a lad of 11 and 2 of his mates have just withdrawn from academies at Lincoln & Forest because of this very reason plus the level of commitment they need to give at such. A young age.

I would much rather see the clubs start taking on kids at the under 15 stage when there is much more evidence of how their potential has developed and would allow them the “ freedom” to develop their talent naturally rather than have it coached into their psyche.

Actual results for having a youth process suggest it is from a professional stand point not great value for money but also accept it may have some community benefits, that said no reason why a professional club should not run community projects anyway funded by the FA.

Certainly remember in the mid 1970’s playing against Louth Reserves in the Lincs League and their team included a young Terry Donovan and Glen Cockerill and they certainly did ok coming up via that route although local soccer leagues unfortunately are pretty non- existent nowadays.

This is the point I was trying to make, albeit you have said it more eloquently. We can be a community based club doing all sorts of community projects for youngsters playing the game, without having the formal youth structure which produces next to no first team material. In this regard  we are light years behind clubs in our catchment area and sadly virtually all of any outstanding youngsters will be lured to bigger clubs with better facilities.

There are thousands of young players all over the country who dream of being a professional, but only a fraction make it. In my eyes it would be better to judge them when they are coming up to early manhood by inviting players who have been deemed not quite good enough for bigger clubs.

Only sixteen reserve team games this season. Over thirty full time pros on the books that need game time. There's hardly any opportunities for our youngsters to prove themselves to be ready for first team football. Gone are the days when reserve leagues had nearly as many fixtures as the first team. As first team squads have had to increase massively due to rule changes in the transfer market, reserve team games have been cut back. The EFL have found the funds to help out Premier League U23 teams get more game time, yet due to lack of funding, lower EFL League clubs have been forced to cut back on travelling costs for their reserve teams. The old reserve leagues of twenty years ago used to be a breeding ground and conveyor belt for young talent. Sometimes I think we coach our youngsters to death rather than letting them prove themselves in real game time situations..

If under the rules he can not play can he train or does that mean he can not be paid ?

I am a bit confused about all this,

Are we paying him a wage ? if so why can't he play ?

If we are not paying him can he walk away or do we have him on a contract if so we must be paying him,

So if we are paying him why can't he play,?

If anybody knows the answers please help a confused old man.