Just Back

Listening to Slade as i type. You are so deluded mate. Ask yourself how may shots their keeper had to save, even against ten men?

Can't be ar$ed to type any more. Sick of it all.

Same old, same old.

We actually played alright, but lack of pace and movement upfront cost us. We don't get the ball forward quick enough, and don't try to get behind  or down the wings to stretch them. You can change the players around till your hearts content, but if we don't change the way we play we are never going to score. Too predictable. Somerfield hit the bar from twenty five yards, Matt just missed the target, but the longer it went on the less likely we are to score. Disappointed in Luton, and their support. (522!).

The player who was sent off needs a brain transplant, very bad tackle for the first booking,  Knee high challenge for the second. Stupid. They sat back after the sending off. If Sumerfields effort had gone in it would have been a lot different.

Need to change the whole style of play, and that can only happen when the manager is changed.

He is an arrogant deluded rude fool. We are in serious excrement. flipping “ no luck”. intercourse off slade they had 10 men for an hour!!!!! Please John, i beg again, sack him and sack wilkinson.

And thought Dembele was dreadful when he came on. Because of who he is he seems immune to any critiscm ( however its bloody spelt!) but he did nothing in the 30 mins he was on the pitch. Rushed back soon possibly?

No guile and it's about time Fenty and Sladeball left, time to go for you both before you cause any more damage.

8/9 Strikers at the club and we still need another one

Quoted from Hagrid

And thought Dembele was dreadful when he came on. Because of who he is he seems immune to any critiscm ( however its bloody spelt!) but he did nothing in the 30 mins he was on the pitch. Rushed back soon possibly?

If there are scouts watching him, they must be recruiting for the Boy Scouts. He's done nothing for weeks.

Only good thing to come out of today was no-one gained any ground on us and another game has gone in this god awful season.

Quoted from TwoLeftFeet

8/9 Strikers at the club and we still need another one

Brilliant! You couldn’t make it up could you!

The thing is why is Dembele playing like this? We all know what he’s capable of, Slade has got to go now he’s obviously not getting the best out of the players/team.

Quoted from Hagrid

And thought Dembele was dreadful when he came on. Because of who he is he seems immune to any critiscm ( however its bloody spelt!) but he did nothing in the 30 mins he was on the pitch. Rushed back soon possibly?

Dembele is highly overrated.....too lightweight for league 2 and no end product.

Did Ok for the first twenty minutes, with Summerfield hitting a decent effort that hit the bar, but then it was groundhog day again. Luton should have scored, but it hit their man on the line. Then the sending off came, and we never pushed on against their 10 men. Why play three centre-backs against one striker. We huffed and puffed second half, but never really looked like scoring, hitting the bar once, and the only clear-cut opening fell to Wilkes, who rather than getting the shot off, decided to try and play in Mills. Their goal came after an excellent save from Killip, but we were to slow to clear and Collins fired it home. Our attacking play is too slow and predictable, Vernam has to come back all the way to the half way line just to receive the ball. and only him and Summerfield came out with any credit today, Berrett was anonymous again. Whilst I didn't expect anything from this game, we should have done far better against ten men, and whilst they edged it, the opportunity was there to get something out of the game. We've talked about it for months, but with eight strikers, the lack of goals is very worrying. Three important games coming up were we need at least four points, and with dwindling home attendances unlikely to be above 3500 (Notts County apart) these are worrying times....UTM

We paid the price for not scoring in the first half when we played quite well with purpose driven on by Summerfield who again had an excellent game. Our back 3 were not troubled by the Luton attack, even before the sending off. Kilip making one save I think. Unfortunately we again concede a free kick in a dangerous and this time they scored because they reacted to the rebound off the bar quicker than we did. Kilip did OK to tip the kick onto the bar. After that they had something to defend which they did professionally. They were frustrating but did a job and showed a winning mentality. They go away with an ugly 3 points and sometimes the margins are small as we hit the woodwork twice. Against a packed defence we were not clever enough, launching long balls into the box or trying to find away through the middle. It was crying out for us to move the ball quicker, with more movement up front and also to play down the sides and get in behind. Dembele should have been a wide person but seemed to play too deep. Vernham was coming deeper to get the ball, Matt battled hard but it takes him too long to react and is off balance a lot, like bambi on ice. Finally the best chance fell to new man Wilks near the end when from a good position he elected to try to square it and the chance and any points were lost. Even though we lost, surely there are worse teams than us. Let's hope so otherwise we are in for a nervy final third to the season.

If there are worse teams than us than they must be absolutely crap!!!

We're just lucky we put that spell together before New Year and the bottom 3 are as crap as we are. 5 at the back against 10 men, the man has no clue

Quoted from promotion plaice

Dembele is highly overrated.....too lightweight for league 2 and no end product.

Nah.. he''ll be playing at least one or two leagues higher than the rest of the squad in either a week or six months..

A better manager than Slade and playing with better players will get a lot more out of him..

Bottom line is against ten men for over an hour we NEVER WORKED THEIR KEEPER ONCE.

We have strikers galore but the final ball is awful and apart from Summerfields excellent efforts from distance we created nothing.

Vernam looked superb in the first half but faded badly in the second half Dembele never really got going Zac mills looked good down the wing but the final ball was gash.

Klipp touched the free kick onto the bar and was unlucky it fell to their player to scramble it in other than that he did ok felt more assured with his kicking and distribution he's better than Kleen.

Slade is a desperate man but the played the team I would have played at the start and brought on the new lad Mallik who looks promising.

Problem is I think Mallik and Vernam have been brought in as Slade's get out of jail free cards nothing more.

Quoted from promotion plaice

Dembele is highly overrated.....too lightweight for league 2 and no end product.

Hahaha his career will be spent playing at a higher level than Town are.

John, your best mate running the place just isn't working.

The whole place is at conflict and Slade is not the answer. If he is still here next season I dread to think how many season ticket holders we'll have.

Lets not waste time John, just sack him now. You know you have too. It's gone on long enough.

This time next week Russ you can go back to climbing Mountains. Hopefully

Completely lacking in cutting edge in the final third. Great effort first half hour from the players, but we looked absolutely terrified when they went down to ten men. The expection changed and the players crumbled.

When we needed to add quality we've added kids. Vernam is a good player, but has little help from those around him. An experienced striker takes a touch and shoots in Wilks position when through on goal. Wilks excrement himself and tried to square it. He looks pretty quick though and it's unfair to pin any blame on him. It's the same for Dembele, he's a winger in his first pro season and is easily our most talented player. He's had an injury and got 25 minutes. He didn't do a lot, but he will be inconsistent and we are expecting too much from players who aren't established pros.

I am sorry but does Dembele look good because the rest are crap, he hasn't really won many games on his own. Also where are all these higher level clubs desperate to sign him. Unless Slade knows he's going before Wednesday that's why he's bringing in these proven goal scorers.

Quoted from Gaffer58

I am sorry but does Dembele look good because the rest are crap, he hasn't really won many games on his own. Also where are all these higher level clubs desperate to sign him. Unless Slade knows he's going before Wednesday that's why he's bringing in these proven goal scorers.

No. He's just a very talented player. Can't expect a player in his first pro season to be in white hot form all year round. Struggled to get into the game today.

Just watching Newport County v Spurs. Newport a team that were terrible last season. Changed the manager and this season with basically the same players they are flying in the league and cup. They have a positive forward thinking manager who takes risks and knows how to set up his team. The problem is more our manager than the players in my opinion. We need a decent striker but the way the team is set up is woeful at times. A change must soon be coming otherwise we are getting awfully close to non league again  

Quoted from Grimbiggs

Did Ok for the first twenty minutes, with Summerfield hitting a decent effort that hit the bar, but then it was groundhog day again. Luton should have scored, but it hit their man on the line. Then the sending off came, and we never pushed on against their 10 men. Why play three centre-backs against one striker. We huffed and puffed second half, but never really looked like scoring, hitting the bar once, and the only clear-cut opening fell to Wilkes, who rather than getting the shot off, decided to try and play in Mills. Their goal came after an excellent save from Killip, but we were to slow to clear and Collins fired it home. Our attacking play is too slow and predictable, Vernam has to come back all the way to the half way line just to receive the ball. and only him and Summerfield came out with any credit today, Berrett was anonymous again. Whilst I didn't expect anything from this game, we should have done far better against ten men, and whilst they edged it, the opportunity was there to get something out of the game. We've talked about it for months, but with eight strikers, the lack of goals is very worrying. Three important games coming up were we need at least four points, and with dwindling home attendances unlikely to be above 3500 (Notts County apart) these are worrying times....UTM

Ben Davies cleared the ball off the line.

Quoted from Dogger Bank

Just watching Newport County v Spurs. Newport a team that were terrible last season. Changed the manager and this season with basically the same players they are flying in the league and cup. They have a positive forward thinking chairman who takes risks and knows how to set uprun his club. The problem is more our manager than the players in my opinion. We need a decent striker but the way the team is set up is woeful at times. A change must soon be coming otherwise we are getting awfully close to non league again  

Root cause analysis.

John Tonder would make a better Manager than Slade.  

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

John Tonder would make a better Manager than Slade.  

Would give his staff palpitations every time the opposition had the ball in our half though  

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

John Tonder would make a better Manager than Slade.  

Post match interviews: "I thought we cleared the ball half away too many times"

Quoted from Gaffer58

If there are worse teams than us than they must be absolutely crap!!!

There probably aren't but we got points on the board earlier on in the season before we reach our current nadir.

Quoted from GrimRob

There probably aren't but we got points on the board earlier on in the season before we reach our current nadir.

good news; we still have games against many of the teams below us; each win is one of those ''six-pointers"
although, they will see it the same way

bad news; we dont look likely to win any on current form !

I wouldn't be fooled into thinking that was anything other than the half arsed inept performance that we are now used to from any side sent out by Slade.

Yes the 3-5-2 meant that we where able to move the ball around a bit more but it always will especially against a team like Luton who try and play and therefore give you more free space.  

The shape allows the 2 full backs forward but they still belted the ball in aimlessly when they had time to pause and pick someone out with a half decent delivery, when they did get in behind it was the same showing zero composure. Similar with the midfield 3, could you tell who was the holsing player and who was the attacking mid, I couldn't.

Then again they could have had the delivery of David Beckham but as we very rarely have players in the box let alone in losing markers it would have been pointless really. We bring in a lad (Verman) as a striker and he got everywhere apart from where he needed to be, in the box. Why when you have a 5 man mid field do you need a striker who says he likes playing off a big man having to link up. I just don't get it.

However none of the above is the fault of the players the blame lays at the door of Sales and "Mr Charisma"  Wilco

Slade is a manager who when we go 1 - 0 down leaves 3 CB's against 1 striker. He then brings on Dembelle who until Wilks came on played as an extra forward in reality meaning we lost the extra man in mid field thus we found it even harder to break them down.

Slade is also a manager who promotes a culture that when we are 1 - 0 down with a couple of minutes to go and we get a set piece is happy to leave one of the best headers of the ball (Collins) back "just in case" well IMHO opinion at that stage of the game you may as well take a risk as losing 2 - 0 is just the same as losing by the odd goal.

Felt for Killip as the outfield players should have reacted quicker/better to his initial save from their free kick, but these are not bad players they just need to play in a team and not a system.

Anyway another defeat another 300 mile round trip to be short changed, another weekend of seeing our former players who we let slip through our hands prosper.

I don't know why I and many others bother............ We are looking like this seasons Hartlepool I think it will be a last day drop or escape for us ironically away to VGR. Relegation sides have one thing in common they cant score goals, so what does that tell you about Russel Slade's Grimsby Town?

UTM!!

P.S. - Just a comment about today's ref, "they know the rules but don't know the game" Luton played him like a fish from start to finish.  






    

If we were on a good run in all honesty would have accepted we were unlucky to lose. That is based on the fact that Luton had one cleared off the line and had one other effort, so agree with RS on that one point and before commenting on town I will say if Luton are well clear at the top this has to be a very ordinary league as I thought they had a better side last year.

Despite the lack of pace defence were fine and keeper had nothing to do.

Whilst we regularly comment on our failure to score I think we are overlooking how poor our midfield is and how we totally lack any creativity from any of the players we have available which makes allowing Osbourne to leave even more crazy. Basically they stand in a pretty straight line and when one is beaten all three are regularly out the game. How was their centre half allowed to advance 40 yards without a challenge. Berrett was left for dead on more than one occasion and whilst tidy on the ball is not dynamic enough. Summerfield remains the pick but his woefully stupid challenge cost us the game today, fair play.he does not hide but we need a bit more guile if we are to create chances.

As for the front players they are far too static and from the Upper Findus you see there are many occasions when the player on the ball has no options for a simple forward pass into space as the movement is poor and players tend to just stand wanting it played to their feet even with opposition players in between them and the man with the ball, nobody basically takes responsibility. Dixon actually put in a couple of really good crosses early in the second half but we have no “Fox in the box”, in fact we regularly have nobody in the box,  just a few sheep in wolves clothing. On the other side Mills crosses were atrocious never beating the first man.

Down to ten RS should have reverted to a 4-4-2 and put Dembele & DJ wide to stretch Luton out but we played into their hands with just the one real chance created which the new guy decided to square rather then shoot which was unbelievable. Why was Dembele put down the middle?played into Luton’s hands, that said his first touch today was abysmal.

Will go next Saturday via Cheltenham but another blank will see me not bothering in the future.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

If we were on a good run in all honesty would have accepted we were unlucky to lose. That is based on the fact that Luton had one cleared off the line and had one other effort, so agree with RS on that one point and before commenting on town I will say if Luton are well clear at the top this has to be a very ordinary league as I thought they had a better side last year.

Despite the lack of pace defence were fine and keeper had nothing to do.

Whilst we regularly comment on our failure to score I think we are overlooking how poor our midfield is and how we totally lack any creativity from any of the players we have available which makes allowing Osbourne to leave even more crazy. Basically they stand in a pretty straight line and when one is beaten all three are regularly out the game. How was their centre half allowed to advance 40 yards without a challenge. Berrett was left for dead on more than one occasion and whilst tidy on the ball is not dynamic enough. Summerfield remains the pick but his woefully stupid challenge cost us the game today, fair play.he does not hide but we need a bit more guile if we are to create chances.

As for the front players they are far too static and from the Upper Findus you see there are many occasions when the player on the ball has no options for a simple forward pass into space as the movement is poor and players tend to just stand wanting it played to their feet even with opposition players in between them and the man with the ball, nobody basically takes responsibility. Dixon actually put in a couple of really good crosses early in the second half but we have no “Fox in the box”, in fact we regularly have nobody in the box,  just a few sheep in wolves clothing. On the other side Mills crosses were atrocious never beating the first man.

Down to ten RS should have reverted to a 4-4-2 and put Dembele & DJ wide to stretch Luton out but we played into their hands with just the one real chance created which the new guy decided to square rather then shoot which was unbelievable. Why was Dembele put down the middle?played into Luton’s hands, that said his first touch today was abysmal.

Will go next Saturday via Cheltenham but another blank will see me not bothering in the future.

Exactly right!

Quoted from arryarryarry

Ben Davies cleared the ball off the line.

My eyes along with most others must need checking then it was clearly their player who headed the ball the third official must have also seen it that is why the ref changed it from corner to a goal kick.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

If we were on a good run in all honesty would have accepted we were unlucky to lose. That is based on the fact that Luton had one cleared off the line and had one other effort, so agree with RS on that one point and before commenting on town I will say if Luton are well clear at the top this has to be a very ordinary league as I thought they had a better side last year.

Despite the lack of pace defence were fine and keeper had nothing to do.

Whilst we regularly comment on our failure to score I think we are overlooking how poor our midfield is and how we totally lack any creativity from any of the players we have available which makes allowing Osbourne to leave even more crazy. Basically they stand in a pretty straight line and when one is beaten all three are regularly out the game. How was their centre half allowed to advance 40 yards without a challenge. Berrett was left for dead on more than one occasion and whilst tidy on the ball is not dynamic enough. Summerfield remains the pick but his woefully stupid challenge cost us the game today, fair play.he does not hide but we need a bit more guile if we are to create chances.

As for the front players they are far too static and from the Upper Findus you see there are many occasions when the player on the ball has no options for a simple forward pass into space as the movement is poor and players tend to just stand wanting it played to their feet even with opposition players in between them and the man with the ball, nobody basically takes responsibility. Dixon actually put in a couple of really good crosses early in the second half but we have no “Fox in the box”, in fact we regularly have nobody in the box,  just a few sheep in wolves clothing. On the other side Mills crosses were atrocious never beating the first man.

Down to ten RS should have reverted to a 4-4-2 and put Dembele & DJ wide to stretch Luton out but we played into their hands with just the one real chance created which the new guy decided to square rather then shoot which was unbelievable. Why was Dembele put down the middle?played into Luton’s hands, that said his first touch today was abysmal.

Will go next Saturday via Cheltenham but another blank will see me not bothering in the future.

Osborne was determined to leave us for whatever reason you can't force a player to stay and hope he plays his best forget that one it's over.

I also think we have a glut of strikers but no natural finisher or jack in the box.

Mills and Davis were both guilty of crosses not beating the first man but even when crosses did get in the box Matt never seemed to be there.

Jamile does cause problems and flick-ons and shields the ball well but without a podge type player with him looking to feed off the scraps it all counts for nothing.

Thought Vernam may be that man he certainly has all the right tools but he seems to play too deep, he does get through some work and is very skillful just wish he could be the "jack in the box"

Mallick needs to get more game time but looks like he could be very useful but to be honest neither players are ours and never will be it's a sticking plaster hoping to hide the real problem.

In conclusion, I still honestly don't think this team is that bad I just think Slade and Wilco don't seem to get the best out of them. For all the possession we have and we do have plenty of possession we create very little and never work their keeper enough.  
I can't think of any team that as dominated us or bossed us in midfield this season, take their No. 14 out of that Luton side and they were nothing special. He was a class above everybody yesterday.

Sacked?

??? Who??

We had a Fox in the box AMOND

Slade. Came across it on social media. Might be all of nothing and total crap.

lol twitter/facebook rumors ok mate wishful thinking more like.

How many Luton fans at BP yesterday?

Quoted from chaos33

How many Luton fans at BP yesterday?

Just over 500

Quoted from chaos33

How many Luton fans at BP yesterday?

500 odd.

Around 550 I think they said

Quoted from chaos33

How many Luton fans at BP yesterday?

550 ish. For a side in their position, their fans were rubbish.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

If we were on a good run in all honesty would have accepted we were unlucky to lose. That is based on the fact that Luton had one cleared off the line and had one other effort, so agree with RS on that one point and before commenting on town I will say if Luton are well clear at the top this has to be a very ordinary league as I thought they had a better side last year.

Despite the lack of pace defence were fine and keeper had nothing to do.

Whilst we regularly comment on our failure to score I think we are overlooking how poor our midfield is and how we totally lack any creativity from any of the players we have available which makes allowing Osbourne to leave even more crazy. Basically they stand in a pretty straight line and when one is beaten all three are regularly out the game. How was their centre half allowed to advance 40 yards without a challenge. Berrett was left for dead on more than one occasion and whilst tidy on the ball is not dynamic enough. Summerfield remains the pick but his woefully stupid challenge cost us the game today, fair play.he does not hide but we need a bit more guile if we are to create chances.

As for the front players they are far too static and from the Upper Findus you see there are many occasions when the player on the ball has no options for a simple forward pass into space as the movement is poor and players tend to just stand wanting it played to their feet even with opposition players in between them and the man with the ball, nobody basically takes responsibility. Dixon actually put in a couple of really good crosses early in the second half but we have no “Fox in the box”, in fact we regularly have nobody in the box,  just a few sheep in wolves clothing. On the other side Mills crosses were atrocious never beating the first man.

Down to ten RS should have reverted to a 4-4-2 and put Dembele & DJ wide to stretch Luton out but we played into their hands with just the one real chance created which the new guy decided to square rather then shoot which was unbelievable. Why was Dembele put down the middle?played into Luton’s hands, that said his first touch today was abysmal.

Will go next Saturday via Cheltenham but another blank will see me not bothering in the future.

This is pretty much what i would have said if i could have been ar$ed yesterday. We weren't terrible and Luton weren't great, but our midfield is just so vanilla. They don't do anything unexpected and they create/score very little. Summerfield basically wins MOM every week for not being terrible. He doesn't create much at all and he never scores.

Berrett is just a nothing player. At one point yesterday he got the ball and i couldn't help but shout "just fooking do something". He never does. None of them make it difficult for defenders. Nobody drives at defences like Nolan did when he was here. It's all too easy for teams to keep their shape against us and let's not forget, we have the relegated York City midfield pair regularly starting together for us. Says it all really.

As for the Wilks chance; if you watch his goals for Accy, they are all left footed strikes. The chance yesterday was on his right, so i suspect that's why he didn't have a shot, and tried to play someone in with the outside of his left.

Quoted from ginnywings

This is pretty much what i would have said if i could have been ar$ed yesterday. We weren't terrible and Luton weren't great, but our midfield is just so vanilla. They don't do anything unexpected and they create/score very little. Summerfield basically wins MOM every week for not being terrible. He doesn't create much at all and he never scores.

Berrett is just a nothing player. At one point yesterday he got the ball and i couldn't help but shout "just fooking do something". He never does. None of them make it difficult for defenders. Nobody drives at defences like Nolan did when he was here. It's all too easy for teams to keep their shape against us and let's not forget, we have the relegated York City midfield pair regularly starting together for us. Says it all really.

As for the Wilks chance; if you watch his goals for Accy, they are all left footed strikes. The chance yesterday was on his right, so i suspect that's why he didn't have a shot, and tried to play someone in with the outside of his left.

Good point about our midfield taking York down so nobody can argue that these guys are not consistent. What disappointed me about the Wicks. Chance is here we have a new guy, debut, clean through and wrong foot or not I would have expected him to pull the trigger. For natural strikers that’s their basic instinct, remember bemoaning Bogle (& Andy Cook) for not passing to a better placed teammate but that’s what you get if you want someone who scores regularly. Early days for him but just want a striker who loves scoring.

Yes, just as I saw it from the upper Youngs. Lethargic movement and predictable passing. Somerfield TOO charged up and silly foul. Some refs would have given a yellow for some of his  earlier challenges. He tries hard to make up for Berrett's invisibility.
New lad should have been on earlier.

Quoted from ginnywings

550 ish. For a side in their position, their fans were rubbish.

Their attendance was affected by the fact that if you have a tag attached to your leg you can't leave Town.

Quoted from ginnywings

This is pretty much what i would have said if i could have been ar$ed yesterday. We weren't terrible and Luton weren't great, but our midfield is just so vanilla. They don't do anything unexpected and they create/score very little. Summerfield basically wins MOM every week for not being terrible. He doesn't create much at all and he never scores.

Berrett is just a nothing player. At one point yesterday he got the ball and i couldn't help but shout "just fooking do something". He never does. None of them make it difficult for defenders. Nobody drives at defences like Nolan did when he was here. It's all too easy for teams to keep their shape against us and let's not forget, we have the relegated York City midfield pair regularly starting together for us. Says it all really.

As for the Wilks chance; if you watch his goals for Accy, they are all left footed strikes. The chance yesterday was on his right, so i suspect that's why he didn't have a shot, and tried to play someone in with the outside of his left.

Our central midfield is nowhere near good enough. Berrett and Summerfield neat and tidy but we've got what we've bought, a midfield pair from a relegated League Two side. Not quick enough, not strong enough, not disciplined enough when marking without the ball, and not clever or penetrative enough with the ball going forward.

Above is a copy and paste of part of my post from the Colchester away just back thread eighteen months ago. How have we not progressed from all that time ago? Like somebody else said, our board are operating at their maximum capacity in trying to tread water or avert a slide backwards. They are out of their depth in knowledge, ability and cold hard cash that's willing to be invested in the squad, or more accurately, loaned.

Try as he might Summerfield is not the answer and Berrett even more so. Strengthening the midfield with different to what we've got or by playing the departed JO in a three would have far more effect on results than signing forward after forward.

And while we're at it, I keep seeing, "Clarke and Collins played well apart from being slow". Having slow centre halves has a massive effect on how your team sets up. Massive. I said in the summer it was a mistake to sign DC and NC and I've seen nothing this season to convince me that the team would have done any worse with younger quicker players in there and we should have had a proper look at KO as he was one of the signings that did come with positive reports from the fans of teams he played for.

It's criminal what Slade's recruitment and tactics are doing to the team and the club.. It was as obvious last summer as it is now and it infuriates me..

Quoted from ginnywings

Berrett is just a nothing player. At one point yesterday he got the ball and i couldn't help but shout "just fooking do something". He never does. None of them make it difficult for defenders. Nobody drives at defences like Nolan did when he was here. It's all too easy for teams to keep their shape against us and let's not forget, we have the relegated York City midfield pair regularly starting together for us. Says it all really.

Annoyingly, until a couple of weeks ago, we had a player on the books capable of doing just that.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

My eyes along with most others must need checking then it was clearly their player who headed the ball the third official must have also seen it that is why the ref changed it from corner to a goal kick.

We must be thinking about different incidents, I was referring to the one after about 20 minutes, a corner that was headed towards goal via Rose and cleared off the line by Davies, it was then blasted over via what appeared to be the back of a Luton player.

To be honest I cannot think of another effort they had cleared off the line.  

I don't think we were awful yesterday by any means, but we weren't that good either. A bit similar to when we played Portsmouth (h) and Doncaster (a) last season , teams who were flying high and who we contained during the game but lost to a set piece.

I think if we looked at yesterday's game as an isolated game, it wasn't too bad. It's made worse by the facts of the run we're currently on.i thought we tried to play football generally and just lacked any pace in the final third. This resulted in our "chances" being shots from 20+ yards out as none of our players had the pace to break beyond their defence or get away from a recovering defender.

Some tidy bits of play particularly when it was 11v11. Summerfield's effort that hit the bar must have been 35 yards out and would've been a belter had it gone in. Vernam had a few efforts including one where a recovering defender was gaining ground on him so he had to take it earlier than he would've liked.

Dixon and Davies had reasonable games at wing back and played quite high up the pitch. The problem was, again, their lack of pace. Loads of times we overloaded one side, switched it across to the opposite flank to get the other wingback 1v1 against their full back. But they were having to deliver crosses early because they just aren't players who can beat a player 1v1 or go round the outside then deliver. No fault of theirs, they're just not that player. Mills 2nd half gave us that option but his delivery as ever was poor several times.

Rose appeared to be the midfielder sitting deep in front of the 3 centre backs. Maybe a strange one when he's the midfielder who has popped up with a few goals. Summerfield was probably our only player who puts some zip on his passes and he looks to play forward more often than not. But he came out for the first few minutes of the 2nd half too excited and gave away a daft free kick for their goal. Berrett, I'm sorry, is a passenger in and out of possession.

Worst game I've seen Jamille Matt have. Thought he was really poor. Nothing stuck with him all afternoon. Vernam looks like a footballer but when he plays as a #10, we'd be better off with Wilks up top ahead of him and that's a change I'd have made (Wilks on for Matt).

Dembele coming on as an advanced midfielder behind the front 2 was worth trying as I think he could do that role. Sadly yesterday Luton had become content go just sit deep and get compact by the time he came on. So for the first 10 minutes Dembele was on he barely touched the ball because he was playing in the area and trying to find space in the area Luton had all their bodies in the compact shape. To be fair when he did get the ball in his time on the pitch he was poor and his touch was letting him down.

No lack of effort from our lot. Just not the right blend in the XI for me, and we're not bright/inventive enough with movement off the ball when we're in possession.

Massive next 3 games now.

Quoted from Tommy

I don't think we were awful yesterday by any means, but we weren't that good either. A bit similar to when we played Portsmouth (h) and Doncaster (a) last season , teams who were flying high and who we contained during the game but lost to a set piece.

I think if we looked at yesterday's game as an isolated game, it wasn't too bad. It's made worse by the facts of the run we're currently on.i thought we tried to play football generally and just lacked any pace in the final third. This resulted in our "chances" being shots from 20+ yards out as none of our players had the pace to break beyond their defence or get away from a recovering defender.

Some tidy bits of play particularly when it was 11v11. Summerfield's effort that hit the bar must have been 35 yards out and would've been a belter had it gone in. Vernam had a few efforts including one where a recovering defender was gaining ground on him so he had to take it earlier than he would've liked.

Dixon and Davies had reasonable games at wing back and played quite high up the pitch. The problem was, again, their lack of pace. Loads of times we overloaded one side, switched it across to the opposite flank to get the other wingback 1v1 against their full back. But they were having to deliver crosses early because they just aren't players who can beat a player 1v1 or go round the outside then deliver. No fault of theirs, they're just not that player. Mills 2nd half gave us that option but his delivery as ever was poor several times.

Rose appeared to be the midfielder sitting deep in front of the 3 centre backs. Maybe a strange one when he's the midfielder who has popped up with a few goals. Summerfield was probably our only player who puts some zip on his passes and he looks to play forward more often than not. But he came out for the first few minutes of the 2nd half too excited and gave away a daft free kick for their goal. Berrett, I'm sorry, is a passenger in and out of possession.

Worst game I've seen Jamille Matt have. Thought he was really poor. Nothing stuck with him all afternoon. Vernam looks like a footballer but when he plays as a #10, we'd be better off with Wilks up top ahead of him and that's a change I'd have made (Wilks on for Matt).

Dembele coming on as an advanced midfielder behind the front 2 was worth trying as I think he could do that role. Sadly yesterday Luton had become content go just sit deep and get compact by the time he came on. So for the first 10 minutes Dembele was on he barely touched the ball because he was playing in the area and trying to find space in the area Luton had all their bodies in the compact shape. To be fair when he did get the ball in his time on the pitch he was poor and his touch was letting him down.

No lack of effort from our lot. Just not the right blend in the XI for me, and we're not bright/inventive enough with movement off the ball when we're in possession.

Massive next 3 games now.

...is what Russell Slade should have said, post match. Tell it like it is.

You are joking Dixon did not get one cross past  the first man

Quoted from friskneymariner

You are joking Dixon did not get one cross past  the first man

Certainly not my recollection I recall a very good ball in the first half and at least two in the second which is 3 more than when he has played previously, thought he actually looked a bit better going forward but left for dead by their number 14 when in our defensive third.

Certainly support us getting a new number 3 but I actually felt we were less of a threat going forward yesterday after he went off as we lost our width and a natural left footer. That said I wanted DJ to come on in his place at half time along with a Dembele for Davies as I wanted us to stretch them out and take the game too them.

Im not a fan of dixon but i really dont think he had s bad game yesterday at all

Absolutely excellent post Tommy

The idea that Wilks should have been thrown in up front alongside Vernam is a daft one, for me.

Looks like he'll be the sort of player who will be a poacher and a decent finisher, but barely touched the ball after he came on and certainly doesn't have the attributes to lead the line at present. In fact, the only thing I remember him doing was attempting the pass to Mills when I thought he should have shot instead.

Otherwise, the wing-backs did fine, though they obviously don't have the pace to get beyond the last man. At 11 vs 11, we played some decent stuff and actually picked passes through midfield. When they sat back after their goal, we didn't have a clue what to do because the space disappeared and it nullified the threat of Vernam who had been our best player in the first half.

Very poor management indeed to leave all 3 centre-halves on until the end and you know you're struggling when you chuck a central defender up front and attempt to whack it long to him - if we'd put another man in attack or midfield with 30 minutes to go, we might well have been able to put enough pressure on their defence to create some proper chances.

Quoted from arryarryarry

We must be thinking about different incidents, I was referring to the one after about 20 minutes, a corner that was headed towards goal via Rose and cleared off the line by Davies, it was then blasted over via what appeared to be the back of a Luton player.

To be honest I cannot think of another effort they had cleared off the line.  

Maybe right there Arry my incident was when the ref initially gave a corner when it was, in fact, their player that headed the goal-bound shot off the line.

After the outcry from the fans and players, the decision was rightly overturned probably by the third officials say so it's obvious the lino did not have a clue what he was doing.

Without doubt, if that player had ducked his head that was 2-0.

"Dixon and Davies had reasonable games at wing back and played quite high up the pitch. The problem was, again, their lack of pace. Loads of times we overloaded one side, switched it across to the opposite flank to get the other wingback 1v1 against their full back. But they were having to deliver crosses early because they just aren't players who can beat a player 1v1 or go round the outside then deliver. No fault of theirs, they're just not that player. Mills 2nd half gave us that option but his delivery as ever was poor several times."

This by Tommy summed up my views as well. Mills, unlike Davis, can beat his man he as that skill but his crosses never got past the first defender which was disappointing more for Matt than anyone

Quoted from Maringer

The idea that Wilks should have been thrown in up front alongside Vernam is a daft one, for me.

Looks like he'll be the sort of player who will be a poacher and a decent finisher, but barely touched the ball after he came on and certainly doesn't have the attributes to lead the line at present. In fact, the only thing I remember him doing was attempting the pass to Mills when I thought he should have shot instead.

My logic for that is that if you play with a target man "leading the line" as they say, it doesn't have to be a big man to sling balls up to.
For the most part, we were actually playing football on Saturday. Vernam was essentially playing as a number 10 dropping off to receive the ball - you could even call that being a target, just a different kind of target. Matt was having a massively off day and couldn't hold or protect the ball so he was completely ineffective as a target anyway.

And another option for a target is to play the ball into space, so go off Wilks' movement and if we need an out-ball, give him a diagonal ball into space to try and get onto.

Just didn't seem much need for a big lump as a target man when we weren't going direct very much.

Quoted from Mrs Doyle

Maybe right there Arry my incident was when the ref initially gave a corner when it was, in fact, their player that headed the goal-bound shot off the line.

After the outcry from the fans and players, the decision was rightly overturned probably by the third officials say so it's obvious the lino did not have a clue what he was doing.

Without doubt, if that player had ducked his head that was 2-0.

You're wrong Mrs Doyle    

If that shot hadn't hit their player's head and had gone in it would have been 1-0 to them.... and a totally different game altogether would have ensued after we had kicked off again

Nobody knows how it would have gone from there but if they had gone 1-0 up with 11 men on the field I still think Luton would still have taken the three points

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Hahaha his career will be spent playing at a higher level than Town are.

Well Siriki definitely isn't doing himself any favours at the moment, his first touch on Saturday were dreadful , gave the ball away far to often.

Quoted from Tommy

My logic for that is that if you play with a target man "leading the line" as they say, it doesn't have to be a big man to sling balls up to.
For the most part, we were actually playing football on Saturday. Vernam was essentially playing as a number 10 dropping off to receive the ball - you could even call that being a target, just a different kind of target. Matt was having a massively off day and couldn't hold or protect the ball so he was completely ineffective as a target anyway.

And another option for a target is to play the ball into space, so go off Wilks' movement and if we need an out-ball, give him a diagonal ball into space to try and get onto.

Just didn't seem much need for a big lump as a target man when we weren't going direct very much.

Everything you've posted makes total sense Tommy. You obviously know your stuff, technically and lots of us who feel we understand the game well after years of playing, watching, studying or coaching would agree. What worries me, is that our highly paid management duo seem so far behind that. Out of ideas. No imagination. No willingness to be Maverick or bold. No tactical flexibility. Not able to see weaknesses, or opportunities or a player's untapped potential doing something different. I really don't think it bodes well.

Quoted from Grimal

Well Siriki definitely isn't doing himself any favours at the moment, his first touch on Saturday were dreadful , gave the ball away far to often.

But his first touch has been quality for the rest of the season. It's his first season in the league and he's our best player. People cannot cope if he has an off day.

The counterpoint to Tommy's tactical plan is that I've not seen too many indicators this season that we have anywhere near enough ability in the team to play a pure passing game. We did better than usual with our passing against the 11 men of Luton but, once they dropped back to defend their lead, we were unable to move the ball around nearly well enough to cause many problems. We just ended up losing possession too often or were forced into aimless whacks upfield. Terrible movement in midfield, no incisive passing, lots of pointless tip-tapping between the back three.

There wasn't any space in behind for Wilks or whoever to run onto during the second half and we've seen too often this season that we don't have the players to put accurate passes over the top in any case.

With the current players at our disposal, I'm afraid I don't think we are good enough to play without a biggish bloke up front. Most lower division teams are the same which is why central defenders tend to be tall and strong as opposed to quick and athletic.

Quoted from Maringer

The counterpoint to Tommy's tactical plan is that I've not seen too many indicators this season that we have anywhere near enough ability in the team to play a pure passing game. We did better than usual with our passing against the 11 men of Luton but, once they dropped back to defend their lead, we were unable to move the ball around nearly well enough to cause many problems. We just ended up losing possession too often or were forced into aimless whacks upfield. Terrible movement in midfield, no incisive passing, lots of pointless tip-tapping between the back three.

There wasn't any space in behind for Wilks or whoever to run onto during the second half and we've seen too often this season that we don't have the players to put accurate passes over the top in any case.

With the current players at our disposal, I'm afraid I don't think we are good enough to play without a biggish bloke up front. Most lower division teams are the same which is why central defenders tend to be tall and strong as opposed to quick and athletic.

I thought that when we were 11 v 11 on Saturday, our midfield three were matching up well with Luton. Their manager, when the red card was shown, changed their shape and our players, all eleven, didn't have a clue what to do. They came out 2nd half with a plan to nick a goal and survive - we didn't need 3 centre backs, we needed pace to get round them.

Quoted from Maringer

The counterpoint to Tommy's tactical plan is that I've not seen too many indicators this season that we have anywhere near enough ability in the team to play a pure passing game. We did better than usual with our passing against the 11 men of Luton but, once they dropped back to defend their lead, we were unable to move the ball around nearly well enough to cause many problems. We just ended up losing possession too often or were forced into aimless whacks upfield. Terrible movement in midfield, no incisive passing, lots of pointless tip-tapping between the back three.

There wasn't any space in behind for Wilks or whoever to run onto during the second half and we've seen too often this season that we don't have the players to put accurate passes over the top in any case.

With the current players at our disposal, I'm afraid I don't think we are good enough to play without a biggish bloke up front. Most lower division teams are the same which is why central defenders tend to be tall and strong as opposed to quick and athletic.

And yet there are very, very few L1/L2 teams playing direct/long ball/percentages football. Most teams, especially those doing well, are trying to pass/play and can vary it.

Oh, I agree it was ridiculous that all 3 centre halves were still on the pitch at the end of the game.

However, even with the new arrivals, we still don't have much in the way of pace and, against a team defending in depth, you need to be better at moving the ball around to create the opportunities to get behind them.

Let's also not forget that Luton are apparently the best team in the division by some distance this season and have one of the best defences. Matt didn't achieve a huge amount against them on the day, but then neither do most strikers. The idea that he somehow should have been dropped in favour of a young loanee with a handful of first team starts who had only joined 24 hours earlier seems a bit bizarre to me.

Vernam looks a decent young player and Wilks is obviously highly rated, but both are extremely inexperienced. Luton's defence would have eaten them alive if they had been up front together without a more experienced player/physical presence.

Quoted from Maringer

The counterpoint to Tommy's tactical plan is that I've not seen too many indicators this season that we have anywhere near enough ability in the team to play a pure passing game. We did better than usual with our passing against the 11 men of Luton but, once they dropped back to defend their lead, we were unable to move the ball around nearly well enough to cause many problems. We just ended up losing possession too often or were forced into aimless whacks upfield. Terrible movement in midfield, no incisive passing, lots of pointless tip-tapping between the back three.

There wasn't any space in behind for Wilks or whoever to run onto during the second half and we've seen too often this season that we don't have the players to put accurate passes over the top in any case.

With the current players at our disposal, I'm afraid I don't think we are good enough to play without a biggish bloke up front. Most lower division teams are the same which is why central defenders tend to be tall and strong as opposed to quick and athletic.

Happy to disagree with what we'd have done if we were manager Maringer, I'd have gone for something a bit different but that's football isn't it, there's reason and logic behind both of our ideas but different people would choose either.

The bits in bold above that you've highlighted is where major problems lied on Saturday. Inability to move the ball quick enough. Not just taking 1/2 touches instead of 3/4, but in terms of zipping passes along the ground with some zip on them. Fizzed across the ground with a bit of power. If you roll your passes sideways slowly and lethargically, the opposition can slide across as a unit and be set in their compact shape on the other side by the time the player receiving the pass actually gets the ball out of his feet and gets his head up. So he's left with the mirror image of what the guy across the other side had before he passed him the ball.

The whole point of moving the ball across the pitch and changing the point of attack is to create and expose gaps in the opposition. Either you can switch it pretty quickly and you might get a wide player 1v1 with a full back (or even 2v1 if it's a premeditated tactic). Or as you move the ball across quickly, the opposition slide across but as they do so there might be a gap to play through as they do it.

We were too slow moving the ball 2nd half. Against 11 it wasn't so bad and our early decent spell came through sharp passing. But at 11v10, and Luton sitting back 2nd half, maybe the players psychologically (subconsciously) lose a bit of intensity in their "in possession" stuff because they know they're not being put under pressure? So they were just slowly rolling the ball across the back three. At the risk of sounding like I'm Luke Summerfield's Dad, he moves the ball with purpose and usually passes it firmly/quickly, which is what's needed, particularly against a low-block like Luton had in the 2nd half.

What I don't think some of the crowd helped with was the constant shouts of "get it forward" and moaning every time the ball went backwards. Yeah there are times when I wish some midfielders would look to play forward instead of going safe and back out to the full-back, but it cannot go forward every time. Sometimes we need to go back to either go across or just try and go forward again. What it does need though is some movement ahead of the ball or a bit of rotation somewhere rather than people stood in their positions/areas. I think some of the hopeful punts our defenders played forward towards the end could've been partly due to them just realising we weren't able to play through midfield, but could've been partly influenced by the pressure from the stands to "get it forward". I don't know.

Swapping a centre half for DJ would have given some drive into the box. Berrett has no tricks or change of pace. I was one of those shouting get it forward but not a big lump from the back. We failed to draw a free kick or look clever in any way. A classic Pearson charge would have broken them down perhaps!

Correction, forgot we had used a sub replacing Davies with Mills. That like for like sub limited things somewhat.

Quoted from Croxton

Correction, forgot we had used a sub replacing Davies with Mills. That like for like sub limited things somewhat.

We did eventually take off Dixon, with Collins shuffling across to left back, but it was too late by then. We should have made that switch much earlier, maybe even in the first half as soon as their player went off. We perhaps then wouldn't have gone behind and had to chase the game. Luton knew that if they got into the lead, they could just sit back and soak everything up. We duly obliged by starting the second half on the back foot yet again, and giving them one of our many cheap free kicks we seem to dish out with regularity around our box. Then being too slow to react when the shot dropped off the crossbar. Their superior players then had the rather simple task of shutting us down for the rest of the game.

Our midfield don't get between the lines. They invariably have the opposition midfield and defence in front of them. You need to use movement to get in between the midfield and defence and that gives the opposition defenders something to think about. Do they come out to meet the threat and leave a space behind, or do they hold the line and push up as a unit, trying to get an offside, or do they drop off in case a ball is played over and behind them. Only when you get defenders in two minds and looking for possible danger in front of them and behind them, do defences lose their shape. We don't move the ball quickly and sharply enough to do that and everything is in front of them. A good percentage of the time, their midfield see out the danger without the defenders even having to break sweat. Long punts are generally the easiest ball to defend and that is what they are trying to do- force you back and make you play long.

Although bringing Mills on for Davies seemed the obvious option (and I'm sure they'd have got Davies sent off otherwise), it might have been worth bringing a more attacking player on instead? Dembele the obvious choice, but he has been in terrible form over the past 6 weeks or so (I blame his blond flat-top - a reverse Samson  ) and I suppose Mills was the obvious substitution. Of course, a different sub might have come on had it not been level at the time.

We're a team badly lacking in dynamism - very little pace, few first-time passes to release players into space which is available. Looking at our most skilful attackers, you'd have to say that Dembele, Jaiyesimi and Jones all tend to dwell on the ball and it is something I've complained about in the past. It makes it too easy for the opposition if they know a player is going to receive the ball, take another touch to set themselves and then do a couple of step-overs before going anywhere. I do hope that Dembele and Jaiyesimi learn to think about the pass first of all because, if they do, they will inevitably get more opportunities to take a man on further upfield instead of having to try and dribble past players near the half-way line.

No surprise that we have almost no threat on the counter and it made Slade's decision to keep everyone back in the box even worse as it reduced our threat on the break even further!

I agree with Tommy that Summerfield is the only one who fires his passes around instead of just chipping the ball across the field - he perhaps overdoes it a bit at times, but at least he's trying. Of course, if our movement and passing was better, this wouldn't be such an issue because you can make up a lot of ground with one-touch passing even if you don't hit the ball particularly hard. Alas, we're not that sort of a team.

Thought Clarke and Collins seemed lost for ideas near the end they just passed it to each other either that or nobody was making themselves available.

So who do we have in midfield who is going to be able to bring about any change to our footballing fortune?

Summerfield I guess deserves his place based on his willingness to try and influence the game

Berrett for me does nothing.... always plays a short pass with no particular aim in mind

The two of them together just don't have the creativity or cutting edge we crave

Rose is hardly outstanding but I don't mind him.... at least he has the knack of scoring every now and again and he complements Summerfield better than Berrett ever will
Not on a par with Disley of course but we do need goals from midfield

Clements, Clifton, McAllister - not going to figure

Woolford & Kelly....hit and miss at best and not really preferred as CMs if they ever do play

So there we have it.... a midfield vacuum

That's a really sad indictment of our squad...with no particular inspiration in sight

If you look on the official site, including the young lads, we have thirteen (yes,13) midfielders. Jones is included in them, so if you take him out of the equation, the rest have a woeful assists and goals record. I can't think that Clifton for example could be any less effective than Berrett.