Was it really?

Was it really that much easier (or so it seems) to sign players that were decent i.e. Bogle,Amond,nNsala,Arnold, Disley,to name just a few,when we were non league.l just don't get it !

Quoted from Numanoid

Was it really that much easier (or so it seems) to sign players that were decent i.e. Bogle,Amond,nNsala,Arnold, Disley,to name just a few,when we were non league.l just don't get it !

We had a manager who sold the club then. Now we have a joke manager to go along with a non-league mentality.

Clearly every player in that list and several more on top are better players than every current member of our squad (perhaps Dembele excluded).

Clearly league status isn't the be all when it comes to signing quality players.  

Because we were one of the bigger clubs in non league with a good chance of going up and could probably pay enough for that level. A lot of players we took chances on and they worked out so we probably offered them a better deal than they were getting elsewhere. Was only after they did well with us that other teams wanted them. Some came from lower rungs of non league.

Don't believe our wages on offer have increased much from when we were non league-e.g. Pearson etc. Are we really trying to attract new players in this window. Not many names are being touted,even on the Fishy. Normally 2-3 a day are suggested eg  who's legs are these [answer= Strakers ]

Excellent point that man makes.

It's gone back to the lucky dip journey man side of doing things.

No one can argue because out if all the signings slade has made only one has turned out be decent.

I really really can't wait for slade to go, the whole way we are atm make me more depressed every day .

Most of the players mentioned were either non League or they were League players in a rut.  When Pearson was signed did the Fishy declare it an amazing signing?  Also picking out those signings that turned out to be great ignores the many others that weren't.  For every Pearson there was a Church.

However, for players around this level, I'd say the chance to be in a team that was almost certain to be in the mix for promotion, a cup run and two chances at Wembley, it's more attractive than slugging it out mid table with only an outside chance of promotion.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Excellent point that man makes.

It's gone back to the lucky dip journey man side of doing things.

No one can argue because out if all the signings slade has made only one has turned out be decent.

I really really can't wait for slade to go, the whole way we are atm make me more depressed every day .

I don't know how many signings he has made but I'd say Clarke, DJ, Dembele, Matt and Vernam all look like decent signings.  That must be about a 1 in 2 hit rate which is probably around the same as Hurst.  

Like many posters in here, you start from the position that Slade is useless and view everything through a negative lens.

Quoted from LondonMariner43

I don't know how many signings he has made but I'd say Clarke, DJ, Dembele, Matt and Vernam all look like decent signings.  That must be about a 1 in 2 hit rate which is probably around the same as Hurst.  

Like many posters in here, you start from the position that Slade is useless and view everything through a negative lens.

I think he's up to 15 signings now, so that would make it about 1 in 3. OP point stands though as those five players wouldn't imho have made our best conference 11. Clarke in reality is a stop gap signing, maybe one more season out of him and three of the other's mentioned are loan players, DJ can't hold down a starting slot for more than a couple of games running and Vernam has only played two games so far. As for Matt is he better than the much malinged LJL?

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

I think he's up to 15 signings now,

since Slade arrived, he's signed 21 players including extending players like Collins and Davies, and including loans as well as contracts.

full list is -
Kean
Killip
Collins
Clarke
Davies
Dixon
Hall-Johnson
Keeble
Osborne
Clifton
Rose
Sawyer
Dembele
Jaiyesimi
Kelly
Woolford
Wright
Cardwell
Hooper
Matt
Vernam

I think it comes down to signing players who play with desire and a sense that they have something to prove.

Ability is much of a muchness at this level - the difference is made in belief, confidence, motivation and a range of mental factors.

You look at the squads Hurst built in non-league - filled with players who were desperate to prove that they were good enough to play in the Football League. Young players on the way up (Bogle). Older players who had points to prove (Amond).

They didn't all work out, but that was the general theme.

What concerns me most about a handful of players we have today is that they have very little to prove. Plenty have already had good FL careers, and if we got relegated back to non-league it wouldn't affect them in the slightest because they've already enjoyed their careers.

I think Nathan Pond epitomised the way we recruited players. He wanted to play and get back into that Fleetwood side. He came here with a purpose, something to prove.

Look at the likes of Dixon, Berrett, Woolford... just ambling along in their careers. Not suggesting they don't care or can't be arsed, but it's unclear to me what drives them on.

I can see what drives Dembele, DJ, Vernam etc. Things to prove. Careers at stake.

Are the careers of Clarke, Collins & Davies at stake? Appreciate two of those are Hurst signings. Maybe Hurst would've tapped into something that Slade can't.

Journeymen have nothing at stake. Nothing is on the line. They get paid, they'll move on, and that's about as much as you get from them. We seem to have a few more of these types now than we did when we were non-league.

Quoted from RichMariner

I think it comes down to signing players who play with desire and a sense that they have something to prove.

Ability is much of a muchness at this level - the difference is made in belief, confidence, motivation and a range of mental factors.

You look at the squads Hurst built in non-league - filled with players who were desperate to prove that they were good enough to play in the Football League. Young players on the way up (Bogle). Older players who had points to prove (Amond).

They didn't all work out, but that was the general theme.

What concerns me most about a handful of players we have today is that they have very little to prove. Plenty have already had good FL careers, and if we got relegated back to non-league it wouldn't affect them in the slightest because they've already enjoyed their careers.

I think Nathan Pond epitomised the way we recruited players. He wanted to play and get back into that Fleetwood side. He came here with a purpose, something to prove.

Look at the likes of Dixon, Berrett, Woolford... just ambling along in their careers. Not suggesting they don't care or can't be arsed, but it's unclear to me what drives them on.

I can see what drives Dembele, DJ, Vernam etc. Things to prove. Careers at stake.

Are the careers of Clarke, Collins & Davies at stake? Appreciate two of those are Hurst signings. Maybe Hurst would've tapped into something that Slade can't.

Journeymen have nothing at stake. Nothing is on the line. They get paid, they'll move on, and that's about as much as you get from them. We seem to have a few more of these types now than we did when we were non-league.

Yep, the very types of player that got us into trouble last time we ended up in non league. Some clubs have a smaller budget and have to make do with the cheaper players looking to make an impact. Some clubs have bigger budgets and can afford the better league players, some from higher divisions. We are somewhere in between and can only really afford players from higher divisions who others are discarding. We can't afford to jump to the next level of player, so we end up falling between two stools. Players like Bogle, Hearn, Pearson, Mills etc from the lower reaches is where i think we should be shopping, with a smattering of older wiser players for experience.

Quoted from RichMariner

I think it comes down to signing players who play with desire and a sense that they have something to prove.

Ability is much of a muchness at this level - the difference is made in belief, confidence, motivation and a range of mental factors.

You look at the squads Hurst built in non-league - filled with players who were desperate to prove that they were good enough to play in the Football League. Young players on the way up (Bogle). Older players who had points to prove (Amond).

They didn't all work out, but that was the general theme.

What concerns me most about a handful of players we have today is that they have very little to prove. Plenty have already had good FL careers, and if we got relegated back to non-league it wouldn't affect them in the slightest because they've already enjoyed their careers.

I think Nathan Pond epitomised the way we recruited players. He wanted to play and get back into that Fleetwood side. He came here with a purpose, something to prove.

Look at the likes of Dixon, Berrett, Woolford... just ambling along in their careers. Not suggesting they don't care or can't be arsed, but it's unclear to me what drives them on.

I can see what drives Dembele, DJ, Vernam etc. Things to prove. Careers at stake.

Are the careers of Clarke, Collins & Davies at stake? Appreciate two of those are Hurst signings. Maybe Hurst would've tapped into something that Slade can't.

Journeymen have nothing at stake. Nothing is on the line. They get paid, they'll move on, and that's about as much as you get from them. We seem to have a few more of these types now than we did when we were non-league.

Agree with a lot of what you say. I think the three old fellas who you have mentioned show some clear professional pride. Looking at the shape Ben Davies is in and his level of effort, it is clear he has the motivation to get the best out of his career. It's the same with Collins, he's in great shape, probably doesn't need us, but his desire to play football is clear. I know Clarke has come in for some stick and he's a little more physically limited than the other two, but I think he's a clever player and his commitment and bravery when winning the ball is admirable. They're proving they are still useful and still want to play football at a good level.
I don't see a problem with having a few good old pros, I think it's about having a balance and wouldn't it have been great to develop Shaun Pearson or Toto further alongside these old heads.

agreed that Davies and Collins are the epitome of good professionals.

Some others are definitely of the journeymen variety

Quoted from RichyMills

since Slade arrived, he's signed 21 players including extending players like Collins and Davies, and including loans as well as contracts.

full list is -
Kean
Killip
Collins
Clarke
Davies
Dixon
Hall-Johnson
Keeble
Osborne
Clifton
Rose
Sawyer
Dembele
Jaiyesimi
Kelly
Woolford
Wright
Cardwell
Hooper
Matt
Vernam

That’s shocking! Not many were an improvement on what we had so pointless signings IMO. No way to build a team.

Got to ask yourself: WWBD? What would Buckley do? Wait until someone better was available.

You have to ask yourself why did he sign so many ?

OK 2 or 3 are for the future but what about the rest ?

They either get a few minutes here and there or the odd game or nothing at all,

Slade is past it and should retire.

In my opinion a club likes ours should be looking at having a proper recruitment policy and managers should be asked to buy in to it. Let's be honest, we're out on a limb and not a fashionable place for people to want to move to so we need to make the most of recruitment or we end up with a season like this one where we signed a load of dross.

Our relative success in the NL was because we stopped signing journeymen on their way down and started signing, in general, players who were hungry for success and on their way up. As someone else has said, they had a point to prove which about as good for motivation as anything else. Players like Pearson, Hearn, Bogle, Nolan and Toto were playing for their careers and that's partly why they turned out to be successful signings for us.

Football is completely results based these days meaning that most managers aren't willing to develop players. The result of this is that people who have developed a little later are often released at a young age and have to try to work their way up again. We need to be using this to our advantage. You only have to look at the number of players signing from non-league to see that the talent is out there. And it's not just teams in L2 that are signing them, some are considered worth a risk at a much higher level. Not all of them would be a success but due to the fact that they're probably quite inexpensive compared to players who, for argument's sake, we signed from a relegated L1 side who aren't very good *cough* Hooper and Kelly *cough*, it would be a more cost effective route to go down. The other positive is that most of them would be young and quite likely to add some pace and power to the team. I'd also tap into their hunger for success, offer them a competitive but not massive wage but give them some very good incentives for success like goal bonuses etc. Every now and then you'd get one who is a real success and you can potentially make a lot of money from them.

We should also look to get in a couple of lads a season who have been released from a Championship side. It would mean good scouting before the summer window so that we're aware of players who might interest us and then if any of those are released we can make a move. Again, they're players with a point to prove and are young so hopefully not too expensive. We're not immediately on the doorstep of bigger clubs like Accrington and Barnet are but we're not a million miles away from Forest, Derby, Leicester, Hull or the Sheffield clubs. I'm sure every year between them they must release at least four or five 21/22 year olds who aren't quite good enough for the Championship but would be good in L2.

If we had a recruitment policy in place and developed a reputation as a club where younger players will get a chance and can kick-start their careers again then we could potentially reap the benefits. Look at how Scunny have managed to do something similar for the last ten years. And Peterborough have had some success doing it too. We wouldn't be able to have a team solely of youngsters with no experience but if we paid the going rate for three or four experienced and quality players in key positions and then filled the rest of the side with pace, power and hunger then we'd sure as hell be a lot better than we are currently. I'm already sick of us signing useless journeyman again and it is immediately clear that we're a worse team for it.