Future of Europe after Brexit.

Quoted from Marinerz93

I appreciate and respect your views, however when the EU started fishing quotas and allowing other countries fishing our waters I and hundreds like me lost our jobs on the fish docks as quotas where cut time and time again, last in first out. I know several fish merchants who went bust and I know of two who killed themselves, one being a lad dads I used to talk to whilst waiting to pick up the bought kits for my gaffer. I think his name was Pope. When I worked on the fish docks in the 80's we still had trawlers, now we have one small inshore fishing boat I think.

Also EU money has been used to move companies / factories to other countries meaning UK job losses.

Also with the uncontrolled influx of tradesman, I know many different trades have been undercut and lost work or lost earnings due to lack of work.

On the flip side if we get a trade deal with other countries some of the materials you mentioned may end up being a lot cheaper, I know not helpful now.

If more foreigners do go back then that will surely mean that you aren't being undercut and become a lot busier.

I'm from a family of fishermen and fish dock workers, so i know first hand what happened.

I also respect your views, but i don't agree with them. I'm just pointing out what it means to me personally-not moaning as we lost fair and square in a democratic vote and as with most big decisions in life, some will benefit and some won't, but i firmly believe we were better off in Europe. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out over the coming years and i hope you, Grim and Pete etc are right that we made the correct choice.

Quoted from Maringer

I know what happened with Greece. I've discussed this in the past in other threads - you can't have a currency union without a fiscal union and the ECB treatment of Greece was disgraceful, all to protect the German and French banks. Before the EU referendum, I actually noted that this would be the only thing which would make me think leaving the EU was worthwhile decision.

Ultimately, I took the selfish view that the catastrophic damage to our economy of leaving wasn't a worthwhile exchange to be away from the EU, despite the ECB treatment of Greece. There is some separation between the EU and the Eurozone as well so they aren't exactly the same thing. As I noted earlier, it seems they've realised they ballsed up the situation with Greece (well, some of them have, in any case) so we shouldn't see such an event occurring again - not that it will help a whole generation of Greeks who have been massively impoverished by the whole debacle. Still much better to be inside the tent pissing out.

Unfortunately due to EU regulation that zip didn't work properly because it was made in Italy and the business that made it is protected by the EU so you got splash back on your Italian shoes and now there is layer of urine inside your tent.

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Trade with the EU it has been in steep decline but we are still the EU biggest market, 16 billion in German cars, our trade with the rest of the world has been rising sharply, our economy will be just fine.

Good Lord. That bullshite Brexit propaganda movie? You're trying to quote that as a source of valid information?

A film produced by Durkin, a right-wing propagandist whose main claim to fame is his disingenuous attempt to claim that global warming is some sort of a scam. The clip you show comments from Matt Ridley (eminent zoologist but who has no one clue about economics - he was the Chairman of Northern Rock when it went bust and has shown not one iota of shame for his incompetence in running it into the ground. Next is a comment by the director of the IEA (right-wing think tank, doesn't reveal who funds it), then a well-known eurosceptic businessman. This is followed by Lawson - incompetent chancellor whose deregulation of the banks helped to cause the 2008 financial crisis. Oddly enough, he's another climate-change denier (as is Ridley). Next is the editor of The Sunday Telegraph, an advocate of flat taxes (always a good indication that somebody is a right-wing loon - if the Telegraph editorship wasn't enough), followed by the founder and Director of the Adam Smith Institute which, surprise surprise, is a neoliberal think tank which doesn't reveal the source of it's funding. Next, David Davies - halfwitted Brexiteer whose incompetence has been something to behold. Next? Michael Howard. Yep, Michael flipping Howard. Next person is, I think (looking at the cast list on IMDB) Ruth Lea former Director of the Centre for Policy Studies a - you've guessed it - right-wing think tank which doesn't reveal who funds it. Also works for the Institute of Directors - another famously right-wing body. Next, Daniel Hannan, former journalist for right-wing papers, now a long-time anti Europe Tory MP. Farage, FFS next. Nothing needs to be said about him.

So, what have we got so far? An extremely right-wing and biased bunch of commentators making one-sided over-simplified statements with nothing to back them up.

Up to this point of the film, all that has been said is that the EU exports a lot to us and also that our trade with the rest of the world is increasing at a greater rate than our trade with the EU. No mention of the fact that we have a massive trade deficit with both the EU and the rest of the world. There is then something about exporters needing to comply with regulations of the destination country. After 40 years, our regulations are exactly the same as those of the EU. When we leave, we're going to have to pretty much copy them wholesale because it would be too time-consuming and expensive to write our own! Not to mention the fact that the EU will remain our largest trading partner, so we'll need to hold to their regulations in any case.

After that, a bizarre section about the 'value of trade deals' that other countries have in comparison to the EU. THE WHOLE flipping IDEA OF THE FREE MARKET IS THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A TRADE DEAL WITH FELLOW MEMBERS!!!!! Sorry, had to shout there, because that whole scene with impressive sounding numbers made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Glib nonsense designed to impress those who don't understand the topic.

Then the claim (without evidence) that being EU members means that you are disadvantaged because you can't have your own trade deals with the big economies elsewhere in the world. Hate to have to point this out yet again but, as a small country with few natural resources and with little to export these days, any deal bashed out with the big economies isn't necessarily going to end up in our favour. The power of being part of the EU is that no-one messes with you when it comes to trading - no specific deals are required because everyone wants a piece of the action of the world's wealthiest and largest trading bloc.

Next, you get Steve Baker, another Tory MP headbanger saying that we'll be able to negotiate trade deals very quickly once we leave the EU - NO WE WON'T! It takes years to negotiate trade deals and we've got nobody with any experience of such negotiations as it has been left to the EU for decades. He's as deluded as Davies on this point.

Davies made the most half-witted comment, of course. Talking about the UK's 'buccaneering spirit'. He's so dim he doesn't realise that he's saying we are good at piracy.

The last minute or so of the clip is the various talking heads already mentioned saying how stagnant Europe is and how leaving will allow us to spread our wings or some such platitude. This being the case, why is growth in the EU now so much higher than the UK just a year later then?

Anyway, the most obvious point from this propaganda piece is that there was not one mention of geography. Europe is close, everywhere else is really far away. To ignore or try to hide the fact that Europe will remain by far our largest trading partner as in this clip really misses the biggest point of all, especially when we have such a huge trade deficit and no industry or natural resources to turn this around.

The fact that people have apparently been swayed by clips such as that is really depressing.

Right on cue the King Jeremy Corbyn of the so far left it hurts of the remoaners cries foul but is far more guilty than any Brexitier in their Europhile bias.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yAPbRxA.gif[/img]

You said there wouldn't be an EU army 100% it'll never happen, the plans have been in since 2015 are now it's happening what do you say now.

Also you fail every time to discuss Verhofstadt and Juncker the two most powerful EU politicians directing the EU and what their vision is and how they are going about it, how they came to power and what they are earning.

How do you feel that the commission is going to take power away from every country and they'll decide what is law and how much money and when they want it from countries.

Talk about the future of Euorpe and where it is headed because all the remoaning scaremongering isn't coming true just like they claimed when they burst a blood vessel about joining the Euro.

Bottom line for me is our laws are made by our consent and not by people who don't care about us, our immigration is decided by who we need not who can come when they want, that our country is free to trade with who ever we want and I want closer ties to the British commonwealth.The CAP and CFP both work against the UK and the CAP is going to screw over British farmers even more.

The EU has destroyed what was left of Grimsby after the cod wars, to me that is unforgivable. They destroyed Greece and what about Camerons I'll get a deal, the EU chewed him up and spat him out. People saw what the EU was all about, had they conceded the EU vote would have been completely different. You hate Farage because everything he has said is happening, from the EU army to how the EU is moving more to a dictatorship.

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm from a family of fishermen and fish dock workers, so i know first hand what happened.

I also respect your views, but i don't agree with them. I'm just pointing out what it means to me personally-not moaning as we lost fair and square in a democratic vote and as with most big decisions in life, some will benefit and some won't, but i firmly believe we were better off in Europe. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out over the coming years and i hope you, Grim and Pete etc are right that we made the correct choice.

I 100% believe we did the right thing, I've done a lot of research and spoke to a diverse amount of business people, including a professor of economics and politics. I really hope we have made the right choice, not to gloat but for our children's future and the future of our country, too many people knock us, we are a great country with great historical trading links. Dyson, the inventor has made some bold statements about negotiating with the EU.

I know you have taken a bit of a hit with Brexit and although that saddens me I really hope that once we are free it will benefit you greatly. I know it won't happen over night but eventually. I see a bright future for the UK as a free democracy.

Not a good day for the brexiteers. Today almost confirms we are in line for the softest of brexits, which basically means we will be left with a trade deal that is slightly worse than we've got at the moment, but will end up paying more, without having the ability to do the free trade deals with those countries like Chad, Djibouti , Nepal etc who are so desperate to sign free trade details with us ,plus no input to what the eu decides to do in future.
Absolute triumph for us plucky Brits!
Am very grateful to the dup (who represent a minority of people in a miniscule province) for allowing May to agree this deal.  Whats this nonsense about the tail wagging the dog?
What amuses me as a remainder is how the brexiteers sacred cows are getting slaughtered one by one. No Ecj input into the uk?wrong!
We don't owe them a penny. Wrong!
We will decide the agenda. Wrong!
We won't be taking any lead from the e.u. We will just do our own thing. Wrong!
We will leave in March 2019 there's no need for a transitional deal. Wrong!
We will have £350 million per week to give to the nhs.Wrong!
The e.u. Is 27 member countries who we will divide and rule so getting a great deal. Wrong!
We can have our cake and eat it.Wrong!

And you know when the brexiteers have lost when Nigel farage is bleating about a betrayal

Quoted from MidnightMariner

KM
YOU CAN BE A RIGHT PRI CK

Another graduate of the Marley-Fenty School of Communications.

Quoted from forza ivano

Not a good day for the brexiteers. Today almost confirms we are in line for the softest of brexits, which basically means we will be left with a trade deal that is slightly worse than we've got at the moment, but will end up paying more, without having the ability to do the free trade deals with those countries like Chad, Djibouti , Nepal etc who are so desperate to sign free trade details with us ,plus no input to what the eu decides to do in future.
Absolute triumph for us plucky Brits!
Am very grateful to the dup (who represent a minority of people in a miniscule province) for allowing May to agree this deal.  Whats this nonsense about the tail wagging the dog?
What amuses me as a remainder is how the brexiteers sacred cows are getting slaughtered one by one. No Ecj input into the uk?wrong!
We don't owe them a penny. Wrong!
We will decide the agenda. Wrong!
We won't be taking any lead from the e.u. We will just do our own thing. Wrong!
We will leave in March 2019 there's no need for a transitional deal. Wrong!
We will have £350 million per week to give to the nhs.Wrong!
The e.u. Is 27 member countries who we will divide and rule so getting a great deal. Wrong!
We can have our cake and eat it.Wrong!

And you know when the brexiteers have lost when Nigel farage is bleating about a betrayal

I think we'll find that Brexiteers have suddenly gained an appetite for a referendum on the Brexit deal.

They won. They need to get over it, the snowflakes.

Quoted from forza ivano

Not a good day for the brexiteers. Today almost confirms we are in line for the softest of brexits, which basically means we will be left with a trade deal that is slightly worse than we've got at the moment, but will end up paying more, without having the ability to do the free trade deals with those countries like Chad, Djibouti , Nepal etc who are so desperate to sign free trade details with us ,plus no input to what the eu decides to do in future.
Absolute triumph for us plucky Brits!
Am very grateful to the dup (who represent a minority of people in a miniscule province) for allowing May to agree this deal.  Whats this nonsense about the tail wagging the dog?
What amuses me as a remainder is how the brexiteers sacred cows are getting slaughtered one by one. No Ecj input into the uk?wrong!
We don't owe them a penny. Wrong!
We will decide the agenda. Wrong!
We won't be taking any lead from the e.u. We will just do our own thing. Wrong!
We will leave in March 2019 there's no need for a transitional deal. Wrong!
We will have £350 million per week to give to the nhs.Wrong!
The e.u. Is 27 member countries who we will divide and rule so getting a great deal. Wrong!
We can have our cake and eat it.Wrong!

And you know when the brexiteers have lost when Nigel farage is bleating about a betrayal

As a Brexiteer, it is an awful day, lets not forget May was a remainer and now she is selling the UK down the river, not only that she has sold the paddles and the boat too. The brave new world that was waiting for us has been undone by the remainers trying to sabotage democracy, more or less to cause the country to revote and EU will get there way like they did in Ireland when they voted to leave and had to have a second vote. It's not all good news for you remainers because once we end up remaining we will be milked like never before by the a Federal EU state.

No matter how bad the deal, we are better off out than in, If this shenanigans continues I hope we walk away completely with a no deal.