Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Catching up
Users Browsing Forum
AdSense, Googlebot and 141 Guests

Catching up

  This thread currently has 4,239 views. Print
3 Pages 1 2 3 All Recommend Thread
Southwark Mariner
October 14, 2017, 11:50pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,153
Posts Per Day: 0.69
Reputation: 78.29%
Rep Score: +21 / -6
Location: London
Approval: +3,537
Gold Stars: 81
The club have launched a new group to help raise funding and awareness for the youth team.

https://www.grimsby-townfc.co.uk/news/2017/october/youth-development-association-relaunched/

It mentions that we now receive £390k from the league just to fund our youth setup. This is a huge amount of money we've not had whilst in non-league (I think about a third of our playing budget from the conference). I'd just like to point out that mid-table is an achievement for a club that has been outside of the league for six years.
Logged Offline
Private Message
TAGG
October 15, 2017, 12:10am

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,090
Posts Per Day: 0.93
Reputation: 54.48%
Rep Score: +26 / -26
Approval: +2,981
Gold Stars: 121
Whats the point in a youth system?? we never bring any through.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 1 - 21
KingstonMariner
October 15, 2017, 12:29am
Meths Drinker
Posts: 22,096
Posts Per Day: 6.12
Reputation: 79.33%
Rep Score: +42 / -11
Approval: +23,440
Gold Stars: 218
£390k from the League providing it raises £155k itself (which is where the YDA comes in). Which is a heck of a budget in total.

Maybe this funding might be the answer long-term as to why we haven't produced youth players who've really broken into the first team squad. Or maybe managers are just reluctant to take a risk, given the vulnerable nature of their position. How do we get young players to the position where managers don't see it as a risk to play them?


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 2 - 21
Cloudy
October 15, 2017, 9:24am
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,335
Posts Per Day: 1.15
Reputation: 71.17%
Rep Score: +17 / -8
Approval: +6,431
Like most I would love to see young local lads getting through to the first team.

The committee seems very much inside weighted and I also think makes the Trust less important as it undoubtedly is a clash and splits demands on fans money and involvement.

The cynic in me........
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 3 - 21
MuddyWaters
October 15, 2017, 10:05am
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 14,028
Posts Per Day: 2.60
Reputation: 68.15%
Rep Score: +48 / -24
Approval: +31,883
Gold Stars: 230
Can't see us raising £155k with a few scratch cards and a quiz night.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 4 - 21
75
October 15, 2017, 10:33am
Guest User
Youth? I'll sort it straight away:

Drop Berrett, start Clifton.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 5 - 21
KingstonMariner
October 15, 2017, 10:42am
Meths Drinker
Posts: 22,096
Posts Per Day: 6.12
Reputation: 79.33%
Rep Score: +42 / -11
Approval: +23,440
Gold Stars: 218
Quoted from MuddyWaters
Can't see us raising £155k with a few scratch cards and a quiz night.


It's a tough task. 3 grand a week is going some. It'll take a big effort. I'm glad the Trust isn't leading this one because I think it would be a diversion from what should, in my opinion, be the main strategy.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 6 - 21
barralad
October 15, 2017, 12:02pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,792
Posts Per Day: 2.33
Reputation: 81.03%
Rep Score: +86 / -20
Approval: +9,195
Gold Stars: 121
Quoted from Cloudy
Like most I would love to see young local lads getting through to the first team.

The committee seems very much inside weighted and I also think makes the Trust less important as it undoubtedly is a clash and splits demands on fans money and involvement.

The cynic in me........


I'll be charitable and assume you didn't see the paragraph which said there will be joint ventures and that a Trust rep. is on the group.
The very existence of this YDA gives the Trust more time and energy to focus on the matters that a lot of folk think we should be concentrating on.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 7 - 21
headingly_mariner
October 15, 2017, 12:08pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,755
Posts Per Day: 0.98
Reputation: 64.4%
Rep Score: +34 / -21
Approval: +10,266
Gold Stars: 113
Should those that make the decisions at the club not be paying for this?
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 8 - 21
Cloudy
October 15, 2017, 2:10pm
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,335
Posts Per Day: 1.15
Reputation: 71.17%
Rep Score: +17 / -8
Approval: +6,431
Quoted from barralad


I'll be charitable and assume you didn't see the paragraph which said there will be joint ventures and that a Trust rep. is on the group.
The very existence of this YDA gives the Trust more time and energy to focus on the matters that a lot of folk think we should be concentrating on.


What do 'folk' think the Trust should be concentrating on?? That's a genuine question btw.

I think a great start would be the £30kpa the Trust pay the club should be ringfenced and paid directly into the youth set up as a start because at present the impression I get is it just goes into the black hole to run the club. Happy to be corrected by those with more knowledge. Barralad can you shed light on what happens to the money?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 9 - 21
GrimRob
October 15, 2017, 2:18pm

Moderator
Posts: 12,630
Posts Per Day: 2.12
Reputation: 69.92%
Rep Score: +76 / -34
Approval: +13,343
Gold Stars: 113
I think you need to give our youth system a few years before you condemn it. Now we are a FL club we'll be getting better players and more resources to throw at them. But it is not going to reap instant results. A top player is worth at least half a million, potentially a lot more. Even if we only get one every 5 years plus the trickle of squad/first team players then it's worth it.

It would be a sad day to see the link broken between GTFC and the local community.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

Logged Offline
Site Private Message Skype
Reply: 10 - 21
ginnywings
October 15, 2017, 2:43pm

Recovering Alcoholic
Posts: 28,126
Posts Per Day: 5.05
Reputation: 73.79%
Rep Score: +88 / -32
Approval: +55,972
Gold Stars: 538
I think Walsall brought quite few youth players through to the first team while Woods was there and he was highly thought of. Given time, he will hopefully do the same for us.

That's the key to it -time. We have only been back in the league for a season and a bit, so we need to build it back up.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 11 - 21
barralad
October 15, 2017, 5:06pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,792
Posts Per Day: 2.33
Reputation: 81.03%
Rep Score: +86 / -20
Approval: +9,195
Gold Stars: 121
Quoted from Cloudy


What do 'folk' think the Trust should be concentrating on?? That's a genuine question btw.

I think a great start would be the £30kpa the Trust pay the club should be ringfenced and paid directly into the youth set up as a start because at present the impression I get is it just goes into the black hole to run the club. Happy to be corrected by those with more knowledge. Barralad can you shed light on what happens to the money?


Not really I'm afraid. The club budget year on year to receive it  so it goes into the general fund. Whilst in non-league many of the extra events we ran were specifically to support the efforts made by the PPAG-some a great deal more productive than " a few scratch cards and a quiz night".
As regards the other part of the question actively campaigning to make firstly the off pitch match day experience better, putting our manpower resources into campaigning to make the new stadium a reality and supporting fans who follow GTFC away from home. Giving a voice to exiles figures high for me personally.


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 12 - 21
KingstonMariner
October 15, 2017, 9:19pm
Meths Drinker
Posts: 22,096
Posts Per Day: 6.12
Reputation: 79.33%
Rep Score: +42 / -11
Approval: +23,440
Gold Stars: 218
Quoted from GrimRob
I think you need to give our youth system a few years before you condemn it. Now we are a FL club we'll be getting better players and more resources to throw at them. But it is not going to reap instant results. A top player is worth at least half a million, potentially a lot more. Even if we only get one every 5 years plus the trickle of squad/first team players then it's worth it.

It would be a sad day to see the link broken between GTFC and the local community.


The other plus side of the financial equation is potential saving on transfer fees for players coming in an on wages (Youth Team players presumably starting on lower pay than incoming 'finished articles').

But given the amount going in (£390k from the FL and £155k from the club), It'll be tough for it to pay for itself purely in financial terms (the FL money comes from somewhere).


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 13 - 21
Maringer
October 15, 2017, 9:44pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,098
Posts Per Day: 1.86
Reputation: 82.93%
Rep Score: +60 / -12
Approval: +16,140
Gold Stars: 180
Quoted from GrimRob
I think you need to give our youth system a few years before you condemn it. Now we are a FL club we'll be getting better players and more resources to throw at them. But it is not going to reap instant results. A top player is worth at least half a million, potentially a lot more. Even if we only get one every 5 years plus the trickle of squad/first team players then it's worth it.


The second we get a player potentially worth half a million or more, he'll be nipping off to a Championship/Premier League club for a few grand under the terms of the EPPP. Probably then enjoying the privilege of getting a decent wage while mouldering away in their youth team/B team/whatever and never getting any competitive games.

That said, I think our youth system should be kept up in the hope that you'll generate a few players capable of playing commensurate with our level every couple of years or so. I would say that you'd hope local lads wouldn't get any unnecessary stick and a bit more support, but then you don't have to think back too far to remember Danny North taking plenty of stupid flak from stupid fans. Obviously different to, say,  Hockless who got better and better in the minds of some the less he played.  

I'd also say if you're not attempting to 'grow your own' as a club, you might as well give up. There's got to be some sort of an aspiration there.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 14 - 21
TAGG
October 15, 2017, 11:01pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,090
Posts Per Day: 0.93
Reputation: 54.48%
Rep Score: +26 / -26
Approval: +2,981
Gold Stars: 121
Quoted from GrimRob
I think you need to give our youth system a few years before you condemn it. Now we are a FL club we'll be getting better players and more resources to throw at them. But it is not going to reap instant results. A top player is worth at least half a million, potentially a lot more. Even if we only get one every 5 years plus the trickle of squad/first team players then it's worth it.

It would be a sad day to see the link broken between GTFC and the local community.


There really is no connection between club and community any more and hasn't been for about 15 years or so.
It would be great to see a local youngster or three make it through but its just not happening.
Get rid of the youth system and use money saved for the first team.
You can always look again if we ever come across any success in the future.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 15 - 21
Cloudy
October 16, 2017, 6:42am
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,335
Posts Per Day: 1.15
Reputation: 71.17%
Rep Score: +17 / -8
Approval: +6,431
Must be the best part of 150 kids in the youth set up. If there is no youth system many of those  go to Scunny, Lincoln , Hull etc. You have lost them as future fans, probably lost their parents, grandparents. Aunts and uncles too.

I see lots of lads at home and away games who are now well in their 20's and 30's who were in the youth set up at one time or other.

Not a reason to keep it going on it's own but certainly a factor. Wonder if those wanting to scrap it are the same ones who want to give free/cheap tickets to the fans of tomorrow?
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 16 - 21
moosey_club
October 16, 2017, 12:12pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 16,136
Posts Per Day: 2.71
Reputation: 76.19%
Rep Score: +69 / -22
Approval: +20,144
Gold Stars: 220
Quoted from Maringer

The second we get a player potentially worth half a million or more, he'll be nipping off to a Championship/Premier League club for a few grand under the terms of the EPPP.


That would be my biggest concern about putting in so much additional funding ourselves to get the FL funding....the Ryan Bennett and John Oster payday scenario's dont exist anymore do they ? A standout player can be taken from under our noses way before he gets near the first team for next to sweet FA.

The fact i mentioned Ryan Bennett and John Oster also gives an indication of how succesful our youth system hasnt been....Bennett 7/8 years ago....Oster ...20 yrs ago ... are the only 2 next level players we have nurtured/ developed, and arguably a talent like Osters is natural in many respects, we were just lucky he lived relatively locally in Skeggy.  

While we have produced some regular first teamers in the intervening years, North, Bore, Hegarty for instance none have gone upwards from here have they ?

As far as i can tell, the main beneficiaries of our youth system have been Clee Town and Grimsby Borough who seem to hoover up the rejects each year.

Of the current YT's who have gone pro i think Clifton was locally regarded as the standout player of his age yet he doesnt get a look in and will inevitably leave the club with very few first team games....a few years behind him the local outstanding player was Adam Drury who via Man City now plays for GY Borough i think.

If the system is to continue then i think the aims need to be clearly defined....if its a basis to develop our own players to support the first team then on recent history we are wasting our time as they are either not good enough or they dont get the opportunity....if its about creating an income stream by selling on talent then again the last 20 yrs would suggest its hardly worth it and with the EPPP in place future income off these kind of sales would be reduced anyway.  

You have to speculate some times admittedly but on evidence the system produces next to nothing to the first team or to the income of the club as it stands....will the additional 500k change that ?? or just fund itself for a few more years.


2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWL
2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW
2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳
2020/21  LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend
2019/20  WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended
2018/19  LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny  
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 17 - 21
ginnywings
October 16, 2017, 12:25pm

Recovering Alcoholic
Posts: 28,126
Posts Per Day: 5.05
Reputation: 73.79%
Rep Score: +88 / -32
Approval: +55,972
Gold Stars: 538
There is an article i read somewhere that says we sold £600,000 pounds worth of talent in Woods previous spell as youth coach.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 18 - 21
ginnywings
October 16, 2017, 12:30pm

Recovering Alcoholic
Posts: 28,126
Posts Per Day: 5.05
Reputation: 73.79%
Rep Score: +88 / -32
Approval: +55,972
Gold Stars: 538
Here's the article, though i was surprised to see it say he had been dismissed from Walsall as i don't think that is the case. Anyway...


http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/neil-woods/
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 19 - 21
1mickylyons
October 16, 2017, 1:37pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 9,040
Posts Per Day: 1.53
Reputation: 75.68%
Rep Score: +42 / -14
Approval: +9,260
Gold Stars: 54
Quoted from moosey_club


That would be my biggest concern about putting in so much additional funding ourselves to get the FL funding....the Ryan Bennett and John Oster payday scenario's dont exist anymore do they ? A standout player can be taken from under our noses way before he gets near the first team for next to sweet FA.

The fact i mentioned Ryan Bennett and John Oster also gives an indication of how succesful our youth system hasnt been....Bennett 7/8 years ago....Oster ...20 yrs ago ... are the only 2 next level players we have nurtured/ developed, and arguably a talent like Osters is natural in many respects, we were just lucky he lived relatively locally in Skeggy.  

While we have produced some regular first teamers in the intervening years, North, Bore, Hegarty for instance none have gone upwards from here have they ?

As far as i can tell, the main beneficiaries of our youth system have been Clee Town and Grimsby Borough who seem to hoover up the rejects each year.

Of the current YT's who have gone pro i think Clifton was locally regarded as the standout player of his age yet he doesnt get a look in and will inevitably leave the club with very few first team games....a few years behind him the local outstanding player was Adam Drury who via Man City now plays for GY Borough i think.

If the system is to continue then i think the aims need to be clearly defined....if its a basis to develop our own players to support the first team then on recent history we are wasting our time as they are either not good enough or they dont get the opportunity....if its about creating an income stream by selling on talent then again the last 20 yrs would suggest its hardly worth it and with the EPPP in place future income off these kind of sales would be reduced anyway.  


Home grown players give you extra heart and it`s been lacking in our teams for a while.The likes of Clifton need to be blooded and given a run of games unless they are woeful and that it beggars why were they signed in the first place.

Charlie l`anson and Brad Wood both played a few games
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 20 - 21
arryarryarry
October 16, 2017, 5:27pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 10,193
Posts Per Day: 1.71
Reputation: 52.76%
Rep Score: +26 / -28
Approval: +9,946
Gold Stars: 113
Quoted from ginnywings
Here's the article, though i was surprised to see it say he had been dismissed from Walsall as i don't think that is the case. Anyway...


http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/neil-woods/


https://www.saddlers.co.uk/news/2016/october/neil-woods-set-to-depart/
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 21 - 21
3 Pages 1 2 3 All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › Catching up

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.