hoofball / thanks to mikey

thought this deserved a thread of its own. thanks to mikey for posting it


Quoted Text
I saw the thread earlier regarding our ex-manager, marmite-man Russell Slade, and it took me back to a conversation I had with the guy during his time at the club. I wanted to give this its own thread because I feel that it outlines the very problem we face with today's Town side and in particular, Mike Newell.

Let me just begin by saying that I was deeply hurt by the way Slade left the club, particularly the Cardiff debacle, however throughout his time with us I found him to be the most approachable man I've ever met in football. I recall this one night, at some point towards the business end of the 2005/06 season - it was one of those fans' quiz nights at the Inn on the Park that were popular at the time. Afterwards, I approached Slade to say hello, and we got talking.

It began with the usual football smalltalk, and I offered to buy him a pint which he promptly refused, and bought me mine instead. Over the next 45 minutes or so that followed, I was given one of the most in-depth and technical explanations of footballing strategy that I'd ever heard; so much so that I can remember it almost word-for-word to this day. Allow me to paraphrase the choice bits from the conversation, because it demonstrated to me that Russell Slade was for all his faults, a very intelligent and highly committed football manager:

THE CONVERSATION

When he first joined the club, Slade had very much wanted to play attractive, free-flowing football (he had done so at Scarborough). However, some way through his first season became aware that this was not going to be possible here for one, fundamental reason. Essentially, to play attractive, passing football you need creative-minded, technically competent players. Whilst players which met such criteria are available at this level, they are only available for a reason - typically because of poor attitude or work ethic. This makes them an unmanageable liability and unaffordable luxuries. Whilst he didn't name names, I suspect he was talking about the likes of Thomas Pinault and Ashley Sestanovich who were both gifted technically, but also highly inconsistent and unpredictable.

Ultimately, Slade realised that success could not be brought to Grimsby with 'sexy football', and set-out to find another way.

At the end of his first season, he said, he spent time looking through the statistics of promoted teams for the previous few seasons. There was a common thread, in particular to the way in which successful teams tended to score there goals. Set-pieces, defensive errors and goals from counter attacks all featured heavily for successful sides, but were rare for struggling teams as a percentage of their overall goals scored. In fact, struggling teams tended to score from within the 18-yard box from 'general' open play, something which is difficult to specifically engineer.

To take this one step further, Slade mentioned he had watched literally thousands of goals from around a decade of successful League Two sides in an attempt to identify why and how promoted teams scored in the fashion they did. From this, he formed his masterplan.

He suggested that ensuring a high conversion rate from set-pieces was a fairly simple, two-part process. Firstly, you need players who can deliver a quality ball - Curtis Woodhouse, Ciaran Toner and contravertially Tom Newey were all commended. Add to that several above-average height players and you increase the chances of scoring free-kicks and corners significantly. Justin Whittle, Rob Jones, and Gary Jones were all obvious stand-outs, however Slade reckoned that Gary Cohen's athletic leap made him effectively about 6ft 3", and was a major reason for him winning a contract with the club in the first place.

This all seemed fairly straightforward stuff, but it was the next bit that really grabbed my attention.

Slade moved on to explain that the aimless hoofs from the back for which he was so heavily criticised for were in fact not aimless hoofs at all, but a fundamental part of our overall strategy. Balls would often be hit, often 10 - 15 yards away from the nearest Town player and straight into the channel the opposition full-back. However, they were played at pace, at a very specific, low trajectory which made it difficult for the opposition defender to predict and properly clear.

As part of this overall plan, Michael Reddy would chase the ball and close down the full-back receiving the ball. Meanwhile, Town's wingers would cut inside and move forward at pace to remove the option of the full-back taking his only straightforward option; heading it to his nearby centre-half. This left the full-back with only two real options; to try and control the ball (difficult because of the pace and low trajectory of the ball) or to head it forward (resulting in us regaining possession high up the pitch or the opposition midfielder having to turn under pressure from the likes of Paul Bolland).

Not only does this tactic work by providing opportunities through defensive mistakes, it also tires the opposition defence because they are constantly running with little respite (Slade mentioned that League Two centre-backs are not usually the fittest of players). Additionally, it is demoralising as the opposition enjoy little proper possession and are pinned back into their own half for long periods.

In the event that the opposition gained a settled period of possession, the following would happen. Both the midfield and defensive line would push back and sit deep, only pressing the opposing midfield when they approached Town's third of the pitch. Ultimately this meant this resulted in little opportunity for the opposition to play through the defence with a string of passes, for the final third of the pitch becomes too congested to do so. This left Town's frustrated opponents with one option - to go long into the box, playing right into the hands of Rob Jones and Justin Whittle. If you watch the Tottenham game, you'll see this happen again and again and again - quality stuff!

Slade continued. Not only is this a sound defensive route, it also provided us with one of our major outlets for goals that season. Because Town were defending so deeply, it encouraged the opposition defence to play a high-line and sit somewhere around the halfway line. Cue a quick, long ball over the top or through the middle to the lightening quick Michael Reddy, and you're through on goal. Simple as that. Again, watch some footage of our goals that season, particularly Reddy's and you'll begin to see how this was no accident.

As a final point, Slade commented that this approach required extreme levels of fitness, particularly for the midfield who would need to sprint constantly for minutes at a time often without actually receiving the ball. But, he added, fitness can be instilled in young athletes much more easily than specific technical skills. Additionally, by employing players to do very specific roles, typically their strengths, you gain a level of consistency as a team which is, and I quote "the difference between being promoted at the end of the season, or not". Famous last words, Russ, famous last words...

To summarise though, what became clear to me was that Russell Slade had realised what wasn't working, made a plan to address the issues then executed it with thought and precision.

its an excellent insightful read

This post reminds me of when i go into a pub. I always refuse when a fan comes upto me and offers to buy me a pint-instead I buy him one. Gotcha-you are now mine for as long as I want. I use my vast experience of bullshite to convince him that if he listens carefully he will learn all my tactics and why I am such a good golfer.Admittedly I am not the best there are others who might be better at certain things- Justin Rose for example. When I've finished with him he believes in my strategy of not winning anything so that it doesn't bring my handicap down-so I don't play as well as I could for a reason. Russell Slade is full of utter bullshite for a reason the same as me--I am a crap golfer, he is a crap manager and J.F. will rue the day he appointed him

Fancy a pint?

Quoted from forza ivano

thought this deserved a thread of its own. thanks to mikey for posting it


Quoted Text
I saw the thread earlier regarding our ex-manager, marmite-man Russell Slade, and it took me back to a conversation I had with the guy during his time at the club. I wanted to give this its own thread because I feel that it outlines the very problem we face with today's Town side and in particular, Mike Newell.

Let me just begin by saying that I was deeply hurt by the way Slade left the club, particularly the Cardiff debacle, however throughout his time with us I found him to be the most approachable man I've ever met in football. I recall this one night, at some point towards the business end of the 2005/06 season - it was one of those fans' quiz nights at the Inn on the Park that were popular at the time. Afterwards, I approached Slade to say hello, and we got talking.

It began with the usual football smalltalk, and I offered to buy him a pint which he promptly refused, and bought me mine instead. Over the next 45 minutes or so that followed, I was given one of the most in-depth and technical explanations of footballing strategy that I'd ever heard; so much so that I can remember it almost word-for-word to this day. Allow me to paraphrase the choice bits from the conversation, because it demonstrated to me that Russell Slade was for all his faults, a very intelligent and highly committed football manager:

THE CONVERSATION

When he first joined the club, Slade had very much wanted to play attractive, free-flowing football (he had done so at Scarborough). However, some way through his first season became aware that this was not going to be possible here for one, fundamental reason. Essentially, to play attractive, passing football you need creative-minded, technically competent players. Whilst players which met such criteria are available at this level, they are only available for a reason - typically because of poor attitude or work ethic. This makes them an unmanageable liability and unaffordable luxuries. Whilst he didn't name names, I suspect he was talking about the likes of Thomas Pinault and Ashley Sestanovich who were both gifted technically, but also highly inconsistent and unpredictable.

Ultimately, Slade realised that success could not be brought to Grimsby with 'sexy football', and set-out to find another way.

At the end of his first season, he said, he spent time looking through the statistics of promoted teams for the previous few seasons. There was a common thread, in particular to the way in which successful teams tended to score there goals. Set-pieces, defensive errors and goals from counter attacks all featured heavily for successful sides, but were rare for struggling teams as a percentage of their overall goals scored. In fact, struggling teams tended to score from within the 18-yard box from 'general' open play, something which is difficult to specifically engineer.

To take this one step further, Slade mentioned he had watched literally thousands of goals from around a decade of successful League Two sides in an attempt to identify why and how promoted teams scored in the fashion they did. From this, he formed his masterplan.

He suggested that ensuring a high conversion rate from set-pieces was a fairly simple, two-part process. Firstly, you need players who can deliver a quality ball - Curtis Woodhouse, Ciaran Toner and contravertially Tom Newey were all commended. Add to that several above-average height players and you increase the chances of scoring free-kicks and corners significantly. Justin Whittle, Rob Jones, and Gary Jones were all obvious stand-outs, however Slade reckoned that Gary Cohen's athletic leap made him effectively about 6ft 3", and was a major reason for him winning a contract with the club in the first place.

This all seemed fairly straightforward stuff, but it was the next bit that really grabbed my attention.

Slade moved on to explain that the aimless hoofs from the back for which he was so heavily criticised for were in fact not aimless hoofs at all, but a fundamental part of our overall strategy. Balls would often be hit, often 10 - 15 yards away from the nearest Town player and straight into the channel the opposition full-back. However, they were played at pace, at a very specific, low trajectory which made it difficult for the opposition defender to predict and properly clear.

As part of this overall plan, Michael Reddy would chase the ball and close down the full-back receiving the ball. Meanwhile, Town's wingers would cut inside and move forward at pace to remove the option of the full-back taking his only straightforward option; heading it to his nearby centre-half. This left the full-back with only two real options; to try and control the ball (difficult because of the pace and low trajectory of the ball) or to head it forward (resulting in us regaining possession high up the pitch or the opposition midfielder having to turn under pressure from the likes of Paul Bolland).

Not only does this tactic work by providing opportunities through defensive mistakes, it also tires the opposition defence because they are constantly running with little respite (Slade mentioned that League Two centre-backs are not usually the fittest of players). Additionally, it is demoralising as the opposition enjoy little proper possession and are pinned back into their own half for long periods.

In the event that the opposition gained a settled period of possession, the following would happen. Both the midfield and defensive line would push back and sit deep, only pressing the opposing midfield when they approached Town's third of the pitch. Ultimately this meant this resulted in little opportunity for the opposition to play through the defence with a string of passes, for the final third of the pitch becomes too congested to do so. This left Town's frustrated opponents with one option - to go long into the box, playing right into the hands of Rob Jones and Justin Whittle. If you watch the Tottenham game, you'll see this happen again and again and again - quality stuff!

Slade continued. Not only is this a sound defensive route, it also provided us with one of our major outlets for goals that season. Because Town were defending so deeply, it encouraged the opposition defence to play a high-line and sit somewhere around the halfway line. Cue a quick, long ball over the top or through the middle to the lightening quick Michael Reddy, and you're through on goal. Simple as that. Again, watch some footage of our goals that season, particularly Reddy's and you'll begin to see how this was no accident.

As a final point, Slade commented that this approach required extreme levels of fitness, particularly for the midfield who would need to sprint constantly for minutes at a time often without actually receiving the ball. But, he added, fitness can be instilled in young athletes much more easily than specific technical skills. Additionally, by employing players to do very specific roles, typically their strengths, you gain a level of consistency as a team which is, and I quote "the difference between being promoted at the end of the season, or not". Famous last words, Russ, famous last words...

To summarise though, what became clear to me was that Russell Slade had realised what wasn't working, made a plan to address the issues then executed it with thought and precision.

I'm sure thats exactly what Mr Bignot was trying to articulate in some of his post match interviews  

Ive said for years that the problem with most football managers is they used to be footballers , Footballers aren't really the brightest stars in the sky and I doubt many of them could come up with similar tactics on their own.
Slade like Cowley and Even Wenger were all School teachers and all have half a brain ,Bignot never

So Bignots now stupid too?

Quoted from Mariner93er

So Bignots now stupid too?

Thats the impression i got from hearing him in interviews, I hear a lot of Bullsh1tters speaking in my line of work a lot and can spot them a mile off .
When someone is out of their depth they tend to come up with tried and tested statements ,buzz words and industry jargo.
Bignot seemed to dish all of that out in his interviews.

Is Bignot stupid? Probably not, but his Birmingham accent doesn't help his case.

Stupid? No. Less articulate at getting his point across than other, more experienced, (especially ex school teachers) yes...

Quoted from grimps

Thats the impression i got from hearing him in interviews, I hear a lot of Bullsh1tters speaking in my line of work a lot and can spot them a mile off .
When someone is out of their depth they tend to come up with tried and tested statements ,buzz words and industry jargo.
Bignot seemed to dish all of that out in his interviews.

See what you are saying there, we are clearly on the same page, obviously you have taken a helicopter view of these situations, got your ducks in a row and when the planets have aligned offered some dynamic blue sky thinking processes. Exactly my strategy when presented with an opportunity for providing a solution.

Quoted from golfer

This post reminds me of when i go into a pub. I always refuse when a fan comes upto me and offers to buy me a pint-instead I buy him one. Gotcha-you are now mine for as long as I want. I use my vast experience of bullshite to convince him that if he listens carefully he will learn all my tactics and why I am such a good golfer.Admittedly I am not the best there are others who might be better at certain things- Justin Rose for example. When I've finished with him he believes in my strategy of not winning anything so that it doesn't bring my handicap down-so I don't play as well as I could for a reason. Russell Slade is full of utter bullshite for a reason the same as me--I am a crap golfer, he is a crap manager and J.F. will rue the day he appointed him

I have no idea what you are on about and haven't for months; I do get you don't rate Slade, but he is a vastly experienced football league manager who was available and has replaced a complete novice who was struggling.

What would your solution be - maybe Conte as first team coach with Klopp taking the reserves?

Jesus Christ ffs etc if any outsider fan accesses this forum they're going to leave thinking all town fans are fooking deranged

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Jesus Christ ffs etc if any outsider fan accesses this forum they're going to leave thinking all town fans are fooking deranged

And how exactly would they be incorrect in their assessment?

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Jesus Christ ffs etc if any outsider fan accesses this forum they're going to leave thinking all town fans are fooking deranged

Right now there are folk all over North Lincs sat there with their underpants on their head, a pencil up each nostril and saying 'wibble'  

"THE CONVERSATION

When he first joined the club, Slade had very much wanted to play attractive, free-flowing football (he had done so at Scarborough). However, some way through his first season became aware that this was not going to be possible here for one, fundamental reason. Essentially, to play attractive, passing football you need creative-minded, technically competent players. Whilst players which met such criteria are available at this level, they are only available for a reason - typically because of poor attitude or work ethic. This makes them an unmanageable liability and unaffordable luxuries. "

How come these creative minded, technically competent players with great attitudes and work ethics were available at Scarborough? That's the only bit I don't get. Other than that it's really enlightening so thanks for posting.

Quoted from psgmariner

"THE CONVERSATION

When he first joined the club, Slade had very much wanted to play attractive, free-flowing football (he had done so at Scarborough). However, some way through his first season became aware that this was not going to be possible here for one, fundamental reason. Essentially, to play attractive, passing football you need creative-minded, technically competent players. Whilst players which met such criteria are available at this level, they are only available for a reason - typically because of poor attitude or work ethic. This makes them an unmanageable liability and unaffordable luxuries. "

How come these creative minded, technically competent players with great attitudes and work ethics were available at Scarborough? That's the only bit I don't get. Other than that it's really enlightening so thanks for posting.

Weirdly, i see a lot more pass and move football at step 6 (southern league) than i ever do in conference or league 2. maybe it's because they get more time on the ball the lower down you go?

Quoted from forza ivano

thought this deserved a thread of its own. thanks to mikey for posting it


Quoted Text
I saw the thread earlier regarding our ex-manager, marmite-man Russell Slade, and it took me back to a conversation I had with the guy during his time at the club. I wanted to give this its own thread because I feel that it outlines the very problem we face with today's Town side and in particular, Mike Newell.

Let me just begin by saying that I was deeply hurt by the way Slade left the club, particularly the Cardiff debacle, however throughout his time with us I found him to be the most approachable man I've ever met in football. I recall this one night, at some point towards the business end of the 2005/06 season - it was one of those fans' quiz nights at the Inn on the Park that were popular at the time. Afterwards, I approached Slade to say hello, and we got talking.

It began with the usual football smalltalk, and I offered to buy him a pint which he promptly refused, and bought me mine instead. Over the next 45 minutes or so that followed, I was given one of the most in-depth and technical explanations of footballing strategy that I'd ever heard; so much so that I can remember it almost word-for-word to this day. Allow me to paraphrase the choice bits from the conversation, because it demonstrated to me that Russell Slade was for all his faults, a very intelligent and highly committed football manager:

THE CONVERSATION

When he first joined the club, Slade had very much wanted to play attractive, free-flowing football (he had done so at Scarborough). However, some way through his first season became aware that this was not going to be possible here for one, fundamental reason. Essentially, to play attractive, passing football you need creative-minded, technically competent players. Whilst players which met such criteria are available at this level, they are only available for a reason - typically because of poor attitude or work ethic. This makes them an unmanageable liability and unaffordable luxuries. Whilst he didn't name names, I suspect he was talking about the likes of Thomas Pinault and Ashley Sestanovich who were both gifted technically, but also highly inconsistent and unpredictable.

Ultimately, Slade realised that success could not be brought to Grimsby with 'sexy football', and set-out to find another way.

At the end of his first season, he said, he spent time looking through the statistics of promoted teams for the previous few seasons. There was a common thread, in particular to the way in which successful teams tended to score there goals. Set-pieces, defensive errors and goals from counter attacks all featured heavily for successful sides, but were rare for struggling teams as a percentage of their overall goals scored. In fact, struggling teams tended to score from within the 18-yard box from 'general' open play, something which is difficult to specifically engineer.

To take this one step further, Slade mentioned he had watched literally thousands of goals from around a decade of successful League Two sides in an attempt to identify why and how promoted teams scored in the fashion they did. From this, he formed his masterplan.

He suggested that ensuring a high conversion rate from set-pieces was a fairly simple, two-part process. Firstly, you need players who can deliver a quality ball - Curtis Woodhouse, Ciaran Toner and contravertially Tom Newey were all commended. Add to that several above-average height players and you increase the chances of scoring free-kicks and corners significantly. Justin Whittle, Rob Jones, and Gary Jones were all obvious stand-outs, however Slade reckoned that Gary Cohen's athletic leap made him effectively about 6ft 3", and was a major reason for him winning a contract with the club in the first place.

This all seemed fairly straightforward stuff, but it was the next bit that really grabbed my attention.

Slade moved on to explain that the aimless hoofs from the back for which he was so heavily criticised for were in fact not aimless hoofs at all, but a fundamental part of our overall strategy. Balls would often be hit, often 10 - 15 yards away from the nearest Town player and straight into the channel the opposition full-back. However, they were played at pace, at a very specific, low trajectory which made it difficult for the opposition defender to predict and properly clear.

As part of this overall plan, Michael Reddy would chase the ball and close down the full-back receiving the ball. Meanwhile, Town's wingers would cut inside and move forward at pace to remove the option of the full-back taking his only straightforward option; heading it to his nearby centre-half. This left the full-back with only two real options; to try and control the ball (difficult because of the pace and low trajectory of the ball) or to head it forward (resulting in us regaining possession high up the pitch or the opposition midfielder having to turn under pressure from the likes of Paul Bolland).

Not only does this tactic work by providing opportunities through defensive mistakes, it also tires the opposition defence because they are constantly running with little respite (Slade mentioned that League Two centre-backs are not usually the fittest of players). Additionally, it is demoralising as the opposition enjoy little proper possession and are pinned back into their own half for long periods.

In the event that the opposition gained a settled period of possession, the following would happen. Both the midfield and defensive line would push back and sit deep, only pressing the opposing midfield when they approached Town's third of the pitch. Ultimately this meant this resulted in little opportunity for the opposition to play through the defence with a string of passes, for the final third of the pitch becomes too congested to do so. This left Town's frustrated opponents with one option - to go long into the box, playing right into the hands of Rob Jones and Justin Whittle. If you watch the Tottenham game, you'll see this happen again and again and again - quality stuff!

Slade continued. Not only is this a sound defensive route, it also provided us with one of our major outlets for goals that season. Because Town were defending so deeply, it encouraged the opposition defence to play a high-line and sit somewhere around the halfway line. Cue a quick, long ball over the top or through the middle to the lightening quick Michael Reddy, and you're through on goal. Simple as that. Again, watch some footage of our goals that season, particularly Reddy's and you'll begin to see how this was no accident.

As a final point, Slade commented that this approach required extreme levels of fitness, particularly for the midfield who would need to sprint constantly for minutes at a time often without actually receiving the ball. But, he added, fitness can be instilled in young athletes much more easily than specific technical skills. Additionally, by employing players to do very specific roles, typically their strengths, you gain a level of consistency as a team which is, and I quote "the difference between being promoted at the end of the season, or not". Famous last words, Russ, famous last words...

To summarise though, what became clear to me was that Russell Slade had realised what wasn't working, made a plan to address the issues then executed it with thought and precision.

I like the idea that he is someone who is ready to look at the data that is available out there to find a way for him to improve his team. Stats are a big thing at clubs these days especially when it comes to recruitment. Isn't that how Kante was spotted by Leicester? The guy has a lot of experience in management and has done well even at Town so i'm optimistic he can get us into L1 anyway if these players we have signed are going to be as good as we are told. We are not asking him to get us into the premier are we?

Quoted from grimps

.
Slade like Cowley and Even Wenger were all School teachers and all have half a brain ,Bignot never

There's an element of truth in that theory but it's far too sweeping as a generalisation.

For every ex-teacher (Cowley/Wenger) there's an ex-player (Clough/Buckley) who's done ok for themselves.

Quoted from psgmariner

"THE CONVERSATION



How come these creative minded, technically competent players with great attitudes and work ethics were available at Scarborough? That's the only bit I don't get. Other than that it's really enlightening so thanks for posting.

Maybe because they were all part time footballers but full time school teachers