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Jeremy Corbyn

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forza ivano
August 11, 2015, 6:42pm

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maringer and i have had several long discussions on labour's future and imho it looks fairly bleak at the moment . i do know that ,however much i admire Corbyn (his principles, the fact that he tries to do what he says, he's an excellent constituency MP who actually increased his majority in the election, the fact that he's got young people enthused, he's got a barack obama grass roots thing going, he actually represents the left and what i imagined labour was for, that he provides a direct counterpoint to the tories and the daily mail etc) he will be destroyed by the Tories, their propaganda machine and their mates in the press.

the other candidates look like minnows in comparison, who would just be wafted aside by the cynical and ruthless Tories.

i tend to agree the commentator who said that the left seem to have run out of ideas.it's fine attracting the support of the 'underclass' and the public servants,but most people are now either self employed or in private industry, where the unions only have 14% of the workers. grim74 does have  a point when he says working people now have mortgages, pensions and 'aspirations' . 40 years ago we had a number of  Victorian employers, poor housing, poor Health & safety, pretty awful discrimination, racism and sexism . the work of the left, the unions and in particular the EU have largely cured many of these problems and now instead of suffering working people have moved on - today we have a far more comfortable lifestyle than our parents.

i think labour needs to be looking at what social democrat parties in Europe are doing, looking at the areas where the CBI have put forward some sensible arguments in opposition to the Tories, having a look at the co-operative/ john lewis models, remodelling what some of the more interesting ideas 'soft' Tories are putting forward.
i rather hope hope Corbyn wins - ok labour would be un electable but it'd certainly make politics far more interesting!
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Maringer
August 12, 2015, 8:46am
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Well, after initially being uncertain, the incredible range of attacks on Corbyn from the establishment has actually led me to believe he could well be onto something. By establishment, I don't just include the right-wing press and commentariat who you would expect to be critical, but also the 'left-wing' press, notably the Guardian, as well as any number of careerist Blairite politicians. The Guardian have published an remarkable number of anti-Corbyn hit pieces and articles by Blairites (2 or 3 on some days!). I realise the Guardian has supported the LibDems over the past 10 years so can't be considered anything but centrist, but I've been really taken aback by the vehemence of their attacks against Corbyn. In fact, it doesn't take much of research to discover that the Scott Trust which owns the Guardian has actually been the Scott Trust Ltd since 2008 and the board members of this supposedly charitable and progressive organisation include a surprising number of bankers and financiers! I've never been one to believe conspiracy theories, but it does make you wonder whether things are what they claim to be...  

It is notable that Corbyn is the only one of the leadership candidates who has come out with a reasoned outline for an economic policy which stands against the economically-illiterate austerity much beloved by both the Tories and the New Labourites at present. The so-called 'Corbynomics' with use of a financial instrument termed "People's QE" which would greatly invest in housing, infrastructure and the like looks to be a good idea to me, providing the details are tenable. Somebody at the FT obviously isn't on-message as they've made a sensible post on the Alphaville blog looking at the potential benefits of such a policy:

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/08/06/2136475/corbyns-peoples-qe-could-actually-be-a-decent-idea/

It is surely a good sign that yesterday, The Times, wrote an anti-Corbyn screed in an editorial which blatantly lied about and misrepresented these economic plans. They claimed that Corbyn thinks an additional £120 billion of tax could be raised by clamping down properly on evasion, but no such claim has been made. The creator of much of the 'Corbynomics', Richard Murphy at Tax Research, thinks an investment of £1 billion in HMRC could return an additional £20 billion. What we've actually seen, of course, is a cut in funding for HMRC in recent years. The inflationistas claiming the 'People's QE' would lead to rampant inflation seem to have forgotten that inflation is hovering around zero after £375 billion of 'regular' QE in recent years!

Other policies of Corbyn remain very popular with the electorate - pretty much everyone wants the railways to be renationalised and this would be extremely easy to do, almost certainly saving the government a great deal of money. It's no coincidence that some of the profitable railway franchises are operated by national railway providers from other European countries! Similarly, the major utilities would undoubtedly be better held in public hands, though I struggle to see how it would be possible to take them back off the various providers without paying out vast amounts. New nuclear power stations, for example, could be very easily and much more cheaply financed by government borrowing (just ask France), but instead we're going to sign up to paying EDF (owned by the French government!) a vast amount of money to build and operate them for us.

The question remains, of course, whether a Corbyn leadership actually would make Labour unelectable as so many seem eager to claim? The Blairites, in particular, are very keen to argue that if it wasn't for their hallowed Lord Tony (praise be Him and all His money), the Labour party wouldn't have been in power since the 1970s. However, this is a rather one-sided view which tends to ignore the fact that, by 1997, the Tories were so incredibly unpopular that pretty much anybody could have been elected in opposition. In fact, it was the fact that the Tories were in a shambles which helped Blair win the next two elections even though he lost an incredible 3 million votes in the first term and another million in the next one. The other popular claim is that the heavy defeat in 1983 shows a left-wing Labour government can't win power but this is a very one-eyed view which pretty much completely ignores that the split of the SDP took away a huge number of votes and the Falklands 'victory' provided the previously unpopular Thatcher with an enormous boost due to a nationalist vote. If the Tories are as unpopular as I expect them to be come the next election, can they really rely on another Labour party split (actually quite possible at the moment!) or another war to save them?

It's still remarkable to me that the Tories managed to increase their number of votes this term but they did manage to pull the wool over the eyes of the electorate very effectively with their lies about the economy and scaremongering over the SNP. Osborne's mishandling of the economy has been hidden to some degree by the fact he has continued to pump up a new housing bubble but this surely has to be unsustainable? I do struggle to see how he can keep this bubble from bursting again during the next 5 years, sending us back into recession, but I suppose time will tell. One very short-sighted policy which surprises me is the way the Tories continue to bash the young through cuts in benefits and removal of tax credits and the like. They are obviously very confident that this large demographic will never organise themselves to vote in their own best interests but personally, I wonder if the phenomenon of social media could change this around? Probably not, but if things continue to get worse for the young over the next 5 years as seems inevitable, something has to break at some point.

Anyway, I've decided to take the extra step and have donated a fiver to the Labour party to become a registered supporter so I can vote for Corbyn. First time I've ever had any involvement whatsoever with a political party and it certainly wouldn't have occurred without Corbyn's candidacy. If he doesn't end up winning, I can only hope that Cooper or Burham realise that there is a reason he has proven so popular and then take on board some of the feedback they receive. Heck, Cooper is a capable economist so she surely knows that supporting the 'austerity lite' policy of the Miliband/Balls era is utter nonsense, even if she is married to one of them!

If Corbyn does win and there is a rebellion in the Parliamentary Labour Party to try and remove him well, they'll deserve all they get and God help the country after that.
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psgmariner
August 12, 2015, 10:36am

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All these "attacks" on Corbyn from just about everyone - you don't think some of them may have a point rather than all being a huge conspiracy?


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Maringer
August 12, 2015, 11:16am
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What points?

That he's a left-wing extremist? Not according to the policies I've read. Mostly moderate left stuff - even the hullabaloo in the media about him taking about reinstating Clause 4 misrepresented what was actually said. I keep hearing how he is some sort of looney red nutjob but then you read what he has actually said about a wide variety of topics and you realise this is bunkum.

That his economic views are wrong? Not according to standard macroeconomics. The people supporting policies which go completely against the mainstream views of economics as taught in textbooks (and which the current facts seem to support) are the Conservatives/LibDems (no real difference between the two) and the New Labourites who know it is nonsense but have decided not to point out this fact. The polling commissioned by Cruddas the other week which claimed to show that the public supported austerity was just embarrassing because of the pointed nature of the question. It was like asking "Do you think stealing is bad". Well, duh! Cruddas, don't forget, is just another no-mark careerist politician who was actually in charge of shaping the weak Labour manifesto and policies which led to the election defeat so it really is the blind attempting to lead the blind.

If you don't think a supposedly left-wing newspaper publishing 2 or 3 articles attacking one candidate whilst letting the others write unquestioned op-eds every other day isn't noteworthy, I'm not sure what you think is.

Why have the other candidates not featured more in the larger debate? Because they have nothing to say. They've meekly decided to accept that they can't go against the false Tory narrative about the economy (which I've attempted to show is nonsense in various threads) and 'workers vs shirkers' and are just hanging around in the background failing to act as any sort of an opposition. Where will this leave them when the Tory excrement inevitably hits the fan in the future? Not in any sort of a strong position to achieve anything, that's for sure.

I disagree with Corbyn on a number of issues such as nuclear disarmament, but at least he seems willing to oppose the deeply divisive government we have lumbered ourselves with and has a plan for attempting to tackle many of the problems in this country instead of simply exacerbating them.

He may well prove unelectable but then so are the others at present. The question remains how long it is before the Tories make themselves unelectable once again. At the rate they are going, it won't be too long.
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Town Monkey
August 12, 2015, 5:23pm
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I'm not by nature in anyway left wing.  Quite the opposite, in fact, from an ideological point of view.  In particular, I've got no desire to see big, interfering government and some of the public sector waste that I've witnessed.  However, even with my dogmatic hat on, I really like Corbyn.  I think he actually has policies and a vision.  He also comes across as a man with integrity.  What he offers is a genuine counterpoint to the current government who, even for my tastes, have lurched far too far to the right.  The other 3 candidates offer as much as Ed Milliband, a grey, featureless, melange.  

Hopefully, if he is elected, he'll actually challenge this government on their reforms and hopefully moderate some of their more extreme instincts (who would have thought we'd miss this aspect of the Lib Dems).  Whether the electorate would trust him to run the country is another matter but at least we'd have a choice!

As an aside, I've been genuinely surprised by the level of attacks perpetrated by the Guardian (my paper of choice) on him.    
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grimsby pete
August 12, 2015, 6:48pm

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Most people might not like it but if Jeremy does win,

The next election would be very interesting,

We will have a good choice to make not all of the same waffle by all parties,

I can see Labour going into an alliance with the SNP to form a government,

Not sure what most people would think of that partnership.


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forza ivano
August 12, 2015, 7:10pm

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Quoted from Town Monkey
I'm not by nature in anyway left wing.  Quite the opposite, in fact, from an ideological point of view.  In particular, I've got no desire to see big, interfering government and some of the public sector waste that I've witnessed.  However, even with my dogmatic hat on, I really like Corbyn.  I think he actually has policies and a vision.  He also comes across as a man with integrity.  What he offers is a genuine counterpoint to the current government who, even for my tastes, have lurched far too far to the right.  The other 3 candidates offer as much as Ed Milliband, a grey, featureless, melange.  

Hopefully, if he is elected, he'll actually challenge this government on their reforms and hopefully moderate some of their more extreme instincts (who would have thought we'd miss this aspect of the Lib Dems).  Whether the electorate would trust him to run the country is another matter but at least we'd have a choice!

As an aside, I've been genuinely surprised by the level of attacks perpetrated by the Guardian (my paper of choice) on him.    


Nodding my head in agreement with much of that
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ginnywings
August 12, 2015, 9:13pm

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I was astonished this morning watching the news that there are those in the Labour Party who want to stop the leadership election because they are that worried by Corbyn winning. I thought we lived in a democracy FFS. They are using the excuse that people who support the Tories are registering so that they can vote him in. They may just be surprised by the level of support he has, especially among disillusioned lefties such as myself. It would be fooking ace if the Tories did have a hand in his winning and then he won the next general election. Yeah, i know it's unlikely, but i can dream.

It's about time that the Labour Party stopped being Tory lite and stood up for what they are supposed to believe in. If they sink at the next election, then so be it. It's not as if the current Blairite acolytes are doing anything at the polls.
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Maringer
August 12, 2015, 10:42pm
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For any of the candidates you'd have to say if they can't win an election in their own party, how can they possibly expect to win a General Election?
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codcheeky
August 12, 2015, 11:22pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
I was astonished this morning watching the news that there are those in the Labour Party who want to stop the leadership election because they are that worried by Corbyn winning. I thought we lived in a democracy FFS. They are using the excuse that people who support the Tories are registering so that they can vote him in. They may just be surprised by the level of support he has, especially among disillusioned lefties such as myself. It would be fooking ace if the Tories did have a hand in his winning and then he won the next general election. Yeah, i know it's unlikely, but i can dream.

It's about time that the Labour Party stopped being Tory lite and stood up for what they are supposed to believe in. If they sink at the next election, then so be it. It's not as if the current Blairite acolytes are doing anything at the polls.


Agree totally with this, just watched Newsnight where the presenter was trying to suggest that thousands and thousands have signed up to sway the poll in favour of Corbyn while supporting the Tories, with very little evidence of this, people are signing up because at last there is someone who seems to genuinely want to answer a question with a straight answer without worrying about what the spin doctors and press think about it. The Westminster elite are worried about this because politics at the top end should really be for public schoolboys who have debated variations of the same things since they where at prep school together.  
The other 3 more or less showed how spineless they are by not opposing the Tory budget and have made the mistake of playing to the press and centreist theme instead of the people who will actually be voting for them as most party members are much more radical than their MP`s
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