That's cost us promotion

Dover's late equaliser against Bristol Rovers. Mark my words.

One goal in one game? I see what you are getting at but there is more to it. We came 3rd because of how we performed over 46 games.

flipping with the Team will cost us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm assuming you mean that you think we will lose to Rovers in the final. Probably best if you don't give the team talk if we do face them at Wembley.

It is odd to see so many fans desperate for us, or specifically Hurst, to fail, particularly on the day that we've equalled our "highest number of points in a season" record.

Personally don't think so.Think it will come down to who wants it more on the day plus a bit of luck

Quoted from The Grim Reaper

Dover's late equaliser against Bristol Rovers. Mark my words.

Personally I would like to mark youR windpipe  

Quoted from The Grim Reaper

Dover's late equaliser against Bristol Rovers. Mark my words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viLK8cMKUnY

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

I'm assuming you mean that you think we will lose to Rovers in the final. Probably best if you don't give the team talk if we do face them at Wembley.

It is odd to see so many fans desperate for us, or specifically Hurst, to fail, particularly on the day that we've equalled our "highest number of points in a season" record.

Just because people do not particularly rate Hurst doesn't mean they want him to fail.
I don't rate him and feel that the squad we have has under achieved because (IMO) they do not play to their strengths. Of course I really really hope Hurst proves me wrong and it all goes right when it counts.   I would much rather be eating humble pie than saying 'I told you so'.

Quoted from Civvy at last

Just because people do not particularly rate Hurst doesn't mean they want him to fail.
I don't rate him and feel that the squad we have has under achieved because (IMO) they do not play to their strengths. Of course I really really hope Hurst proves me wrong and it all goes right when it counts.   I would much rather be eating humble pie than saying 'I told you so'.

Great post and totally agree

Also agree

Personally I think that it could have a massive impact on them negatively...

Well we all know anything can happen, Bristol Rovers have lost and drew their two games against Forest Green and Eastleigh this season.

Last two playoff seasons I've been totally confident of going all the way and we didn't!  This year I'm not confident, I'm not really superstitious, but maybe it could be a good omen...!

This post is laughably ridiculous amd surely only an example of trolling!

If (and I do mean if!) we don't end up going up loads of things will have cost us, Wrexham, Chester all the way back to the shop missing a sitter agaimst Brizzle in the very first game.

But sod marking your words, if we fail to get promotion I will not spend my time lamenting Dover scoring against Rovers, there will be far more stuff that we have done I will be focusing on.

Also sod worrying about other teams, I am fed up of thinking of other teams, I am a Town fan and I care about Town. We are good enough to do this, will we? I don't know..as I have previously stated I am a pessimist. However lets stop thinking about other teams stopping us, that is the kind of negative thinking that annoys many of us about Hurst and if I am going to moan at him doing it I am not going to do it myself!

Finally what annoys me most about this thread is it is clearly a wind up and yet it has wound me up such that I have had to post and respond to it.

Sod marking words and other teams, We Are Town! Lets do this!

UTM

P.S. Sorry for the rant, few too many drinks this evening I fear!

I get why fans are frustrated with Hurst - even in a season where we've surpassed our previous record points tally in this division, and even in a season where we've had our best away record in living memory (for me, anyway).

There's a feeling that we should be doing more - that we should have already done more.

There's a feeling that, with this squad of players, that we should get ourselves out of this division.

The frustration comes from seeing what many see as our best squad since being in the Conference, and under-achieving.

Perhaps another manager could do more with this group. Perhaps another manager, with better motivational skills, an attacking mindset and a little more tactical nous, could have won us the title already. I get that, I really do.

But I'm not sure 'that' other manager would've been able to build the squad Hurst has done.

What I'm saying is, it's easy to identify the team's (and the manager's) shortcomings when things don't go as well as we'd like, and that there's probably someone else out there who could do better with what we've got - you know, fill the gaps, complete the puzzle etc.

But we wouldn't have what we've currently got, i.e. a very decent squad of players, without Hurst. The next manager might be more attack minded, motivational and tactically astute, but he might be terrible at signing the players we need to get out of the Conference.

I'm generally pro Hurst but recognise his shortcomings and, believe me, I'm as frustrated as the next fan when things don't go so well. But we take a lot of granted.

We seem to believe that the next manager (whoever he is, whenever he takes over) will do everything that Hurst has done, and more.

Chances are, he won't.

Anyway, all we can do is trust Hurst. He hasn't got a great track record with us in the Conference, but he has improved our squad from the one we had this time last year.

He might not be inspirational, but I think he's intelligent enough to know where it went wrong last season, and we should believe he'll know what to do differently this time around.

The pro Hurst brigade are desperate for him to do well, while the anti-Hurst brigade are more desperate to be proved wrong than right.

So that means we're together on this one. Back the lads, back the manager for the next three games at least - hopefully four - and see where we are in just over three weeks' time.

Quoted from Civvy at last

Just because people do not particularly rate Hurst doesn't mean they want him to fail.
I don't rate him and feel that the squad we have has under achieved because (IMO) they do not play to their strengths. Of course I really really hope Hurst proves me wrong and it all goes right when it counts.   I would much rather be eating humble pie than saying 'I told you so'.

This sentence seems to sum up what Hurst is up against. Surely the whole season counts? Yes, it ultimately comes down to a 4 way shoot out, but that doesn't mean that 46 league games that preceded it should be considered as something that any old manager could have done.  We only have about a 25% chance of going up so by phrasing it like that you're stacking the odds heavily in favour of being proved right that Hurst isn't up to it. It's a false conclusion in my opinion, it's just not as black and white as: promotion = genius, defeat = clueless. Even if that is correct, we are still in with a chance of going up yet the stick keeps coming.

There is a seemingly relentless effort on here to find reasons to criticise the guy. We've lost one in 12 and after that one defeat there were loads of posts on here saying it was proof that we bottle it, or mess up when it really counts. Why didn't the other 11 "really count"? We equal the club's all time record for points in a season and does Hurst get a "well done" from anyone here? No, everyone immediately says that it doesn't count as a worthwhile achievement because this is only the conference.

I hate writing posts like this because I don't want to be labelled as blindly following Hurst. I think that entertainment is an important part of the game, and if Hurst's teams are too dull, then that is reasonable grounds for getting rid. I also think it was infuriating the way we started the season with so few options upfront - that was Hurst's fault and it probably cost us a chance of winning this league.

Hurst is relatively new to professional management. He certainly has his flaws, but I think many people are being needlessly hostile and simply refusing to acknowledge he is improving.

The likes of Gary Mills and Steve Burr have often been raised as more talented managers but neither has done any good this year. But nobody previously calling for those 2 to take charge has to retract it, it's just forgotten. There's not been one person saying "it's a good thing we stuck with Hurst because Mills is clearly clueless now". Nope, what happens is other names come in instead. I read a post earlier today saying that if Martin Allen had been in charge we would have won the league. It just feels like a one way street to me and there is virtually nothing Hurst can do to turn it round.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

This sentence seems to sum up what Hurst is up against. Surely the whole season counts? Yes, it ultimately comes down to a 4 way shoot out, but that doesn't mean that 46 league games that preceded it should be considered as something that any old manager could have done.  We only have about a 25% chance of going up so by phrasing it like that you're stacking the odds heavily in favour of being proved right that Hurst isn't up to it. It's a false conclusion in my opinion, it's just not as black and white as: promotion = genius, defeat = clueless. Even if that is correct, we are still in with a chance of going up yet the stick keeps coming.

There is a seemingly relentless effort on here to find reasons to criticise the guy. We've lost one in 12 and after that one defeat there were loads of posts on here saying it was proof that we bottle it, or mess up when it really counts. Why didn't the other 11 "really count"? We equal the club's all time record for points in a season and does Hurst get a "well done" from anyone here? No, everyone immediately says that it doesn't count as a worthwhile achievement because this is only the conference.

I hate writing posts like this because I don't want to be labelled as blindly following Hurst. I think that entertainment is an important part of the game, and if Hurst's teams are too dull, then that is reasonable grounds for getting rid. I also think it was infuriating the way we started the season with so few options upfront - that was Hurst's fault and it probably cost us a chance of winning this league.

Hurst is relatively new to professional management. He certainly has his flaws, but I think many people are being needlessly hostile and simply refusing to acknowledge he is improving.

The likes of Gary Mills and Steve Burr have often been raised as more talented managers but neither has done any good this year. But nobody previously calling for those 2 to take charge has to retract it, it's just forgotten. There's not been one person saying "it's a good thing we stuck with Hurst because Mills is clearly clueless now". Nope, what happens is other names come in instead. I read a post earlier today saying that if Martin Allen had been in charge we would have won the league. It just feels like a one way street to me and there is virtually nothing Hurst can do to turn it round.

You have NEVER heard me compare Hurst with other managers. Yes, it is now when it counts. In financial terms we need at least a Wembley appearance. In footballing terms we need to go up. Otherwise the winning run etc count for nothing. Because next season we are in the same league as the teams that finished 20/30 points below us.  Hurst has had time now to do things his way with his squad.  HE is the one that put together what I think is the best squad since we dropped out the league. Credit due for that. But that is only one part of the job. If he can't then take us up with that squad then it isn't job done. You sound like you are happy to stay in this tinpot league as long as we get most club points etc etc. well not for me, I want GTFC back in the league. Where they belong.

Quoted from RichMariner

I get why fans are frustrated with Hurst - even in a season where we've surpassed our previous record points tally in this division, and even in a season where we've had our best away record in living memory (for me, anyway).


He might not be inspirational, but I think he's intelligent enough to know where it went wrong last season, and we should believe he'll know what to do differently this time around.

The pro Hurst brigade are desperate for him to do well, while the anti-Hurst brigade are more desperate to be proved wrong than right.

So that means we're together on this one. Back the lads, back the manager for the next three games at least - hopefully four - and see where we are in just over three weeks' time.

What gives me hope Rich is the Barnet game at our ground.Chances are if we play like that we can probably beat anyone Bristol included

What cost us promotion and p1ss1ing this leagues was away draws against sh1t like Telford, Dartford and Altringham, throwing away a 2 -0  lead at Chester as well as home draws after being ahead versus Dover. Eight lost points.

And............ Losing at home to average sides like Southport, Gateshead and  Kiddy. This is the best squad we have had in ages if we fail we only have ourselves to blame! However........ ..IT STILL COULD BE ON IF WE PULL TOGETHER AND EVERYONE GETS BEHIND THE LADS.        

Sorry I meant Wrexham not Gateshead at home, and stupid draws cost is 10 points (at least) not 8..........5th pint!

Quoted from Civvy at last

You sound like you are happy to stay in this tinpot league as long as we get most club points etc etc. well not for me, I want GTFC back in the league. Where they belong.

Ridiculous comment. We all want to get out of this league but there's only 2 promotion places so the odds are against us. There's no way of guaranteeing promotion through the play offs just like there's no way of guaranteeing that a different manager could do any better over the course of a season.

Quoted from Civvy at last

You have NEVER heard me compare Hurst with other managers.

You sound like you are happy to stay in this tinpot league as long as we get most club points etc etc. well not for me, I want GTFC back in the league. Where they belong.

First point I completely accept and I wasn't singling you out. It was a far more general point.

As for the second point, Vance Warner said it perfectly. It's a simply ridiculous comment.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

This sentence seems to sum up what Hurst is up against. Surely the whole season counts? Yes, it ultimately comes down to a 4 way shoot out, but that doesn't mean that 46 league games that preceded it should be considered as something that any old manager could have done.  We only have about a 25% chance of going up so by phrasing it like that you're stacking the odds heavily in favour of being proved right that Hurst isn't up to it. It's a false conclusion in my opinion, it's just not as black and white as: promotion = genius, defeat = clueless. Even if that is correct, we are still in with a chance of going up yet the stick keeps coming.

There is a seemingly relentless effort on here to find reasons to criticise the guy. We've lost one in 12 and after that one defeat there were loads of posts on here saying it was proof that we bottle it, or mess up when it really counts. Why didn't the other 11 "really count"? We equal the club's all time record for points in a season and does Hurst get a "well done" from anyone here? No, everyone immediately says that it doesn't count as a worthwhile achievement because this is only the conference.

I hate writing posts like this because I don't want to be labelled as blindly following Hurst. I think that entertainment is an important part of the game, and if Hurst's teams are too dull, then that is reasonable grounds for getting rid. I also think it was infuriating the way we started the season with so few options upfront - that was Hurst's fault and it probably cost us a chance of winning this league.

Hurst is relatively new to professional management. He certainly has his flaws, but I think many people are being needlessly hostile and simply refusing to acknowledge he is improving.

The likes of Gary Mills and Steve Burr have often been raised as more talented managers but neither has done any good this year. But nobody previously calling for those 2 to take charge has to retract it, it's just forgotten. There's not been one person saying "it's a good thing we stuck with Hurst because Mills is clearly clueless now". Nope, what happens is other names come in instead. I read a post earlier today saying that if Martin Allen had been in charge we would have won the league. It just feels like a one way street to me and there is virtually nothing Hurst can do to turn it round.

Some good points there Meanwood. In some ways it has felt churlish to criticise Hurst when the points have been coming in and it is true what you say, he has improved as a manager.

I think the problem of Hurst's image is not a simple one to answer. The performances have not matched the results for one thing and for a good part of the season the issue of gates and atmosphere has been a big one. While many of us would accept grinding our way out of this league any way we can, there is still the point that performances at home have not encouraged supporters to get behind them. It has been more about mental attitude than playing ability and the manager's interviews have not helped a lot.

If we accept that Hurst is more interested in points than plaudits we can indeed congratulate him on the best total we have achieved in the Conference. However there has been more than one occasion when the manager has cost us points through tactics, substitutions and team selection. That record total could easily have been several points higher and we could be looking at automatic promotion tonight. This isn't hindsight, the comments were made at the time of the games. Of course football is a game of "if's" and "buts" and if my aunt had spherical objects she'd be my uncle. But nevertheless those comments were valid.

Should we get through the playoffs and find ourselves reading Town's name in the Div 2 fixture list for August, I will be happy to nominate Hurst for manager of the year, the Nobel Peace Prize and a knighthood. But we have had so many false dawns and disappointments that he will have to wait until the final whistle at Wembley.

Quoted from RichMariner

But I'm not sure 'that' other manager would've been able to build the squad Hurst has done.

Anyway, all we can do is trust Hurst. He hasn't got a great track record with us in the Conference, but he has improved our squad from the one we had this time last year.

.

Hurst has built an unbalanced squad as our attacking options are limited, is it stronger/ better than last years...time will tell.  Is the league weaker this year as many think or conversely is the league getting stronger? so much so easy games are getting rarer.

Quoted from The Grim Reaper

Dover's late equaliser against Bristol Rovers. Mark my words.

We were written off by people like you when we played Fulham in 1998 and look what happened!

You only have to look back at how long it took Luton to get back into the League to realise it's not that simple. They had greater resources than us and tried several managers before they got promoted.

Quoted from rancido

You only have to look back at how long it took Luton to get back into the League to realise it's not that simple. They had greater resources than us and tried several managers before they got promoted.

Good point that...... and it was the same with Cambridge, last year too as well . The thing Luton also had was that everyone fans, players, staff, directors where united and all focussed and on the same object - Promotion. Reading some posts I am not sure we are as the doom and gloom merchants will always be negative towards the club, players and manager regardless of who we have.

  

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Good point that...... and it was the same with Cambridge, last year too as well . The thing Luton also had was that everyone fans, players, staff, directors where united and all focussed and on the same object - Promotion. Reading some posts I am not sure we are as the doom and gloom merchants will always be negative towards the club, players and manager regardless of who we have.

  

Doom and gloom would be negativity about everything, everybody and at every time for no good reason. That's not what you see on the Fishy. Or very rarely at least. You see criticism of team selection, substitutions, tactics, attitudes ....... some of it right and some of it wrong depending on how you feel.

But at the root of this is history. For so many years supporters have been disappointed. It's as simple as that and it goes back to well before relegation. Bad decisions in the boardroom, bad decisions in the dressing room and bad performances on the pitch mean that people find it hard to be as optimistic as they used to be in their younger days and perhaps younger supporters are today. That sort of experience cannot be instantly erased by a few good results, a play off place and some exhortations to get behind the team.

So maybe not gloom and doom, more like cynicism over the hype and a genuine desire for the proof of the pudding.

I admit I have only seen home games this season, but I can honestly say that the quality generally in the conference this season is the worst since we came down. Lots of average or mediocre teams. As for town there have been times when we have played pretty well, times when we played poorly but managed to win and too many occasions when we looked second best to poor teams. Finally it will be no surprise if Bristol fail to get promoted. Relegated teams rarely go straight back up.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Good point that...... and it was the same with Cambridge, last year too as well . The thing Luton also had was that everyone fans, players, staff, directors where united and all focussed and on the same object - Promotion. Reading some posts I am not sure we are as the doom and gloom merchants will always be negative towards the club, players and manager regardless of who we have.

  

Another one blaming the fans?

You clearly never went on the Luton Outlaws site because if comments could kill, several of the managers prior to John Still would now be dead.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Another one blaming the fans?

You clearly never went on the Luton Outlaws site because if comments could kill, several of the managers prior to John Still would now be dead.

Nah...... never saw the site just live 18 miles away from Luton and work in North London/Beds/Bucks so have had to put up with it last year and also this year with Barnet and their average 1800 gate.  

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Doom and gloom would be negativity about everything, everybody and at every time for no good reason. That's not what you see on the Fishy. Or very rarely at least. You see criticism of team selection, substitutions, tactics, attitudes ....... some of it right and some of it wrong depending on how you feel.

But at the root of this is history. For so many years supporters have been disappointed. It's as simple as that and it goes back to well before relegation. Bad decisions in the boardroom, bad decisions in the dressing room and bad performances on the pitch mean that people find it hard to be as optimistic as they used to be in their younger days and perhaps younger supporters are today. That sort of experience cannot be instantly erased by a few good results, a play off place and some exhortations to get behind the team.

So maybe not gloom and doom, more like cynicism over the hype and a genuine desire for the proof of the pudding.

Couldn't agree more.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Nah...... never saw the site just live 18 miles away from Luton and work in North London/Beds/Bucks so have had to put up with it last year and also this year with Barnet and their average 1800 gate.  

It's very easy for fans to be 100% behind their team when they are walking away with the league title, unfortunately we are not and for the 5 seasons we have been down here we haven't looked like it.

I would also add that only a few weeks ago many on the Barnet site were questioning Martin Allen and whether he would get them promoted.

As I have said countless times GTFC fans are no different from other clubs.

http://gaschat.co.uk/thread/2914/dc-after-game?page=2

Even Bristol Rovers fans are arguing with themselves and some questioning whether the manager should stay if they don't get promoted.

Quoted from Civvy at last

You have NEVER heard me compare Hurst with other managers. Yes, it is now when it counts. In financial terms we need at least a Wembley appearance. In footballing terms we need to go up. Otherwise the winning run etc count for nothing. Because next season we are in the same league as the teams that finished 20/30 points below us.  Hurst has had time now to do things his way with his squad.  HE is the one that put together what I think is the best squad since we dropped out the league. Credit due for that. But that is only one part of the job. If he can't then take us up with that squad then it isn't job done. You sound like you are happy to stay in this tinpot league as long as we get most club points etc etc. well not for me, I want GTFC back in the league. Where they belong.

So why don't you (and other Hurst criticisers) wait with the moaning until the very last ball is kicked. Maybe your wish of 'GTFC back in the league' comes true ??? As I see it, there is still a realy, realy good chance to achieve it !
The season and the teams mission is not finished yet

UTM

Quoted from St. Pauli

So why don't you (and other Hurst criticisers) wait with the moaning until the very last ball is kicked]. Maybe your wish of 'GTFC back in the league' comes true ??? As I see it, there is still a realy, realy good chance to achieve it !
The season and the teams mission is not finished yet

UTM

So no-one is allowed to say anything about selections or tactics or anything said or done by the club management unless it is to praise..  Do you really mean that?

Quoted from arryarryarry

http://gaschat.co.uk/thread/2914/dc-after-game?page=2

Even Bristol Rovers fans are arguing with themselves and some questioning whether the manager should stay if they don't get promoted.

I'm surprised they're having that discussion.

As we know all too well, you have to be seriously bad to lose your place in the Football League. There must be deep-rooted problems that aren't easy to turn around overnight.

Carlisle were the last team to bounce straight back up, and that happened 10 years ago.

Although they're not promoted yet, Clarke has turned it round quite impressively. I'm not sure how many matches they must have lost to get relegated last season, but it must have been plenty. He would've had a squad of players bereft of confidence and morale, and angry fans.

They've only lost 5 games this season. They've drawn a few, granted, but to only lose 5 of 45 is pretty astonishing given their situation in the summer.

We know that clubs don't bounce straight back because of the problems that stretch beyond simply having poor players. What Clarke has done to date is remarkable really.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

So no-one is allowed to say anything about selections or tactics or anything said or done by the club management unless it is to praise..  Do you really mean that?

No, but this is a very decisive period of the season. We are on the home stretch and we all want to bring it home. There will be no more changes in the responsible key persons, so any criticising doesn't change anything anyway. Just play your supportive part and wait for the outcome and only then moan or praise what ever you feel like.

Since then I believe the only duty for a fan is to get behind the team (Hurst is an important part of it) and support, support, support !!!!!

It is right there ! Let's go for it and take it !!!

Quoted from St. Pauli

No, but this is a very decisive period of the season. We are on the home stretch and we all want to bring it home. There will be no more changes in the responsible key persons, so any criticising doesn't change anything anyway. Just play your supportive part and wait for the outcome and only then moan or praise what ever you feel like.

Since then I believe the only duty for a fan is to get behind the team (Hurst is an important part of it) and support, support, support !!!!!

It is right there ! Let's go for it and take it !!!

I understand your point as long as you are really saying "OK folks, let's just enjoy the moment" and you want to make people feel upbeat.

But by your own logic, if criticising doesn't change anything anyway then neither does being supportive!

Common sense says that if we get to Wembley both sets of supporters will be doing their very best to cheer on their team and be supportive, but only one will win. So for half the crowd, being supportive will have failed won't it? The cheering on is for our benefit, to be part of what we hope will be a great occasion. It has no bearing whatsoever on the result or the performance. The result and the performance has a lot of bearing on how supportive we are though.

In fact if you are not careful, the only thing you are doing is censorship, denying people the freedom of  speech to disagree with you.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Common sense says that if we get to Wembley both sets of supporters will be doing their very best to cheer on their team and be supportive, but only one will win. So for half the crowd, being supportive will have failed won't it? The cheering on is for our benefit, to be part of what we hope will be a great occasion. It has no bearing whatsoever on the result or the performance.

Completely disagree with that logic. It seems common sense to me that if thousands of people are cheering for you to do well then it could improve your performance. A team's performance level can be raised but they still lose the game - there's no contradiction there.

I think it will be the Rovers fans saying," that's cost us promotion,"

After losing the play off final to us.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

Completely disagree with that logic. It seems common sense to me that if thousands of people are cheering for you to do well then it could improve your performance. A team's performance level can be raised but they still lose the game - there's no contradiction there.

I accept you can 50% disagree with my logic!

Possibly performance may be enhanced but that does not alter the fact that one set of supporters has failed to influence the outcome does it?

My point was though that making critical or uncritical comments is everyone's freedom. It isn't right for one person or persons to deny other people a different point of view whatever the circumstances. I understand why StPauli posted his exhortation but it is wrong to call on people to stop saying things that he thinks might upset the applecart.

I've always said what I feel....please or offend

If I don't agree with things about the team/ manager I'm going to have my say.

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

My point was though that making critical or uncritical comments is everyone's freedom. It isn't right for one person or persons to deny other people a different point of view whatever the circumstances. I understand why StPauli posted his exhortation but it is wrong to call on people to stop saying things that he thinks might upset the applecart.

Aren't we getting in to to head spinning contradictions here if you're saying StPauli shouldn't be saying what he's saying - he should just let people say whatever they want?  

I'm actually in agreement with you in that it is acceptable to criticise. I've said that positive support can benefit the team - the unavoidable consequence of that is that criticism of the team could potentially be detrimental. This is where some of the "fans being blamed" controversy has come from. However, it's all relative. If there was no possibility of criticism, then the positive support would become meaningless. The mere threat of criticism could well help motivate players.

Where I think the problem lies is unfair criticism, but that's a very subjective concept.

Quoted from MeanwoodMariner

Aren't we getting in to to head spinning contradictions here if you're saying StPauli shouldn't be saying what he's saying - he should just let people say whatever they want?  

I'm actually in agreement with you in that it is acceptable to criticise. I've said that positive support can benefit the team - the unavoidable consequence of that is that criticism of the team could potentially be detrimental. This is where some of the "fans being blamed" controversy has come from. However, it's all relative. If there was no possibility of criticism, then the positive support would become meaningless. The mere threat of criticism could well help motivate players.

Where I think the problem lies is unfair criticism, but that's a very subjective concept.

Of course we are.

It's just fun and games really.

Your last three sentences are very pertinent though. Agee with that.

Sorry, I never meant to disallow anybodys opinion. My intention was to ask if the timing of some opinions on here is chosen wisely.

Nothing's won and nothing's lost yet, but the chance to achieve the desperately wanted is on the table.

I don't know about any big achievement ever, which was reached by constant negativity. That's all I'm saying.

See you guys in Wembley !

UTM