Paddy Mc

Joining Harrogate Town on a month's loan.

I had forgotten about him to be honest.

not been given a chance here, shame as I Like paddy, he offers something different

Surprised he's had to drop to that level, should stand out a mile though.

Not a bad player but Diz, Clay, Brown, even Parslow all ahead of him so not too surprising.

I think Hurst has treated him poorly so I can't blame him for wanting to go out and play some games. I am surprised nobody in our division was interested in taking him though. He offers a lot more than Clay, Brown on recent form and especially Parslow in central midfield. He can score goals from that position as well - something our other central midfielders seriously struggle with, Disley aside.

Quoted from Chrisblor

I think Hurst has treated him poorly so I can't blame him for wanting to go out and play some games. I am surprised nobody in our division was interested in taking him though. He offers a lot more than Clay, Brown on recent form and especially Parslow in central midfield. He can score goals from that position as well - something our other central midfielders seriously struggle with, Disley aside.

3 league goals for us total.  

Least we'll have a match fit Paddy in the event of injuries - or if we reach the play offs. I'd still rather he was playing at town though

Quoted from AdamHaddock

Least we'll have a match fit Paddy in the event of injuries - or if we reach the play offs. I'd still rather he was playing at town though

Unlikely to be picked as he rarely gets a start and when brought on it's only for a few minutes.

To be honest I have been disappointed in him since he signed, always thought he never really looked fit and wasn't the quickest of players and in his nearly two years here he really hasn't contributed that much apart from the odd goal here and there.

Quoted from highcliff mariner

3 league goals for us total.  

13 goals in 55 appearances for York during their promotion season when he was playing in his best position every game. For us he barely ever plays in central midfield since on the rare occasions Hurst does give him a chance, he's shunted out on the wing when it's clear for anyone to see he's not an out and out winger. He scored in the last game he started against Gateshead in the FA Trophy. Of course even after that, Hurst still saw fit to drop him for the following league game.

Is that four lads out on loan at the minute then? Humble,winfarrah,walker and now paddy. Does this mean a new arrival soon?

IMO Paddy is a decent footballer BUT can only be accommodated in a central midfield 3. If the manager and other players prefer to play 4-4-2 then he would never be anymore than a bit part player.

The way PH sets up his sides midfield players have to cover ground and work back, be physically strong and competitive.

Not sure why we signed him. For me he is one attribute away from being very good. He needed to add workrate, heading ability or pace

Quoted from The Singing Fisherman

Is that four lads out on loan at the minute then? Humble,winfarrah,walker and now paddy. Does this mean a new arrival soon?

Hamish Watson as well.

Is Ellis still out on loan. I know he was at Matlock but thought that was a few months ago???

Quoted from Les Brechin

Hamish Watson as well.

Oh yeah forgot about hamish. Gotta be someone coming in surely?

Quoted from Chrisblor

I think Hurst has treated him poorly so I can't blame him for wanting to go out and play some games. I am surprised nobody in our division was interested in taking him though. He offers a lot more than Clay, Brown on recent form and especially Parslow in central midfield. He can score goals from that position as well - something our other central midfielders seriously struggle with, Disley aside.

How do you mean Hurst has treat him poorly. Have I missed something

has someone made a footballer up? Wikipedia says we have Philip Anderson on loan from Mansfield

Quoted from BIGChris

Is Ellis still out on loan. I know he was at Matlock but thought that was a few months ago???

I could be wrong about humble. My bad. Watson,winfarrah,walker and paddy

Quoted from The Singing Fisherman

I could be wrong about humble. My bad. Watson,winfarrah,walker and paddy

Not saying you are. Just not heard anything about him for ages

Quoted from Southwark Mariner

has someone made a footballer up? Wikipedia says we have Philip Anderson on loan from Mansfield

No such player at Mansfield. At least not in the first team squad

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

How do you mean Hurst has treat him poorly. Have I missed something

He played him out of position at the start of the season, then played him as part of a midfield three with Brown and Clay for 3 games. In those 3 games we won 6-1, 7-0 and were all over Aldershot and should have been ahead before John-Lewis got himself sent off for a daft second yellow and caused us to change formation. Since then, McLaughlin has mainly featured as a sub, and he's only played 54 minutes in the league since October! Hurst has been on record saying that unfavoured players need to impress him when they get a chance in the squad - McLaughlin's last start came in the Trophy against Gateshead when he scored a great goal and was one of our better performers. What does Hurst do after that? He drops him!

One of the biggest reservations supporters have this season is the lack of entertainment and the defensive manner in which we set up at home. If Hurst had been more adventurous, stuck with the midfield 3 which saw some of our best performances this season and played McLaughlin in central midfield a bit more I reckon we wouldn't have thrown anywhere near as many points away at home. Of course this isn't something I can quantify, is only my opinion and by no means am I suggesting he's a world beater, but I'd certainly be a bit miffed if I was McLaughlin - especially when certain players find themselves in the starting 11 every game regardless of how poor or ineffective their recent performances have been.

Hurst obviously just doesn't fancy McLaughlin as he's rarely been played centrally during his time at the club.

I'm not exactly a great fan of his (my views are similar to those of BIGChris), but agree he should probably have had a bit more game time this season, especially as the form of both Clay and Brown has been indifferent at times, to say the least.

He'll obviously be on his way at the end of the season so probably good for him to get some football somewhere as he's not getting a look in here.

Quoted from The Singing Fisherman

I could be wrong about humble. My bad. Watson,winfarrah,walker and paddy

I am sure I saw Humble warming up before the Barnet game,

There was about  four of them that were not on the subs bench.

Quoted from The Singing Fisherman

Is that four lads out on loan at the minute then? Humble,winfarrah,walker and now paddy. Does this mean a new arrival soon?

A friend told me he saw Fenty talking to Ched Evans and Adam Johnson at a service station.  

Quoted from Chrisblor

He played him out of position at the start of the season, then played him as part of a midfield three with Brown and Clay for 3 games. In those 3 games we won 6-1, 7-0 and were all over Aldershot and should have been ahead before John-Lewis got himself sent off for a daft second yellow and caused us to change formation. Since then, McLaughlin has mainly featured as a sub, and he's only played 54 minutes in the league since October! Hurst has been on record saying that unfavoured players need to impress him when they get a chance in the squad - McLaughlin's last start came in the Trophy against Gateshead when he scored a great goal and was one of our better performers. What does Hurst do after that? He drops him!

One of the biggest reservations supporters have this season is the lack of entertainment and the defensive manner in which we set up at home. If Hurst had been more adventurous, stuck with the midfield 3 which saw some of our best performances this season and played McLaughlin in central midfield a bit more I reckon we wouldn't have thrown anywhere near as many points away at home. Of course this isn't something I can quantify, is only my opinion and by no means am I suggesting he's a world beater, but I'd certainly be a bit miffed if I was McLaughlin - especially when certain players find themselves in the starting 11 every game regardless of how poor or ineffective their recent performances have been.

Whether I'm biased or not, absolutely this. Spot on. A total waste of a good player and  resource. It staggers me that Hurst could fail to see what he would offer a side set up with attacking intent.
The loan will allow him to play games and get match fit. Longer term he'll be back at conference or L2 level.

Another player who seems to get better when he's not playing. I was one of the few who went to Gateshead and despite a cracking goal he offered little else. I suspect he's found his level but let's not miss out on an opportunity for a bit of Hurst bashing.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Another player who seems to get better when he's not playing. I was one of the few who went to Gateshead and despite a cracking goal he offered little else. I suspect he's found his level but let's not miss out on an opportunity for a bit of Hurst bashing.

Have I suggested this? No. Have I tried to quantify my reasoning with evidence that some of our best performances this season have come when McLaughlin has been played in his favoured position in a similar formation to the one he excelled for York in and made a reasonable assertion that Hurst isn't adventurous enough in the way he sets the team up at home? Yes I have. I wasn't at the Gateshead trophy game, but it sounded like a poor team performance all-round, and McLaughlin's goal was the highlight. I certainly wouldn't suggest that Ross Hannah (who I presume you are also inferring gets better when he's not playing) merits more playing time this season.

Quoted from Chrisblor

He played him out of position at the start of the season, then played him as part of a midfield three with Brown and Clay for 3 games. In those 3 games we won 6-1, 7-0 and were all over Aldershot and should have been ahead before John-Lewis got himself sent off for a daft second yellow and caused us to change formation. Since then, McLaughlin has mainly featured as a sub, and he's only played 54 minutes in the league since October! Hurst has been on record saying that unfavoured players need to impress him when they get a chance in the squad - McLaughlin's last start came in the Trophy against Gateshead when he scored a great goal and was one of our better performers. What does Hurst do after that? He drops him!

One of the biggest reservations supporters have this season is the lack of entertainment and the defensive manner in which we set up at home. If Hurst had been more adventurous, stuck with the midfield 3 which saw some of our best performances this season and played McLaughlin in central midfield a bit more I reckon we wouldn't have thrown anywhere near as many points away at home. Of course this isn't something I can quantify, is only my opinion and by no means am I suggesting he's a world beater, but I'd certainly be a bit miffed if I was McLaughlin - especially when certain players find themselves in the starting 11 every game regardless of how poor or ineffective their recent performances have been.

Right understand all that. I thought you were talking about training with youth team or something. From watching Paddy he has flattered to deceive at times and has been played out of position in my opinion because PH has probably tried to get something more out of him. he has played well in some games but sometimes does go missing. Your right he should he been kept in after Gateshead however I think if we are playing a big strong side Paddy is a little lightweight, especially if we want Dis to push on a little bit we then need something of a more holding mid.
I think he has deserved more not counting we aren't privy to things like attitude in training. Not sure he's been treated badly, just not fancied enough by the manager, rightly or wrongly. I think rightly if we had players that were much better, unfortunately not sure we have.

Square pegs in round holes again  . Everyone has the favourites and their not so , had the potential  , if played in right position . In my opinion another  wasted player  who could have,  if given the chance  .

It does beg the question of why we pursued him and gave him a 2 year deal, when most of our recent signings get 1.  

Quoted from ginnywings

It does beg the question of why we pursued him and gave him a 2 year deal, when most of our recent signings get 1.  

Wasn't he signed at the time when Scott and Hurst wanted the 4-3-3 system to prevail, that is at the start of last season (when Scott turned on Tondeur for asking about the formation)

Maybe once Scott went and Hurst reverted to 4-4-2, Paddy was just surplus to requirements?

Good in a 3, shite in a 2. I do think he's a victim of the formation but i certainly wouldn't have him in front of clay, Disley or brown in a 2.

Quoted from ginnywings

It does beg the question of why we pursued him and gave him a 2 year deal, when most of our recent signings get 1.  

Exactly what I said at the beginning of this season and got slagged off for my comment.

We don't know who made the choice to sign him, Hurst or Scott or both, but a mistake clearly as Hurst has never really wanted to play him regularly.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am sure I saw Humble warming up before the Barnet game,

There was about  four of them that were not on the subs bench.

Humble Watson and Walker all played in the Trinity Harrogate game.  Walker was pulled off as he felt his hamstring so it could be an early end to his loan spell!!!!

Quoted from Chrisblor

He played him out of position at the start of the season, then played him as part of a midfield three with Brown and Clay for 3 games. In those 3 games we won 6-1, 7-0 and were all over Aldershot and should have been ahead before John-Lewis got himself sent off for a daft second yellow and caused us to change formation. Since then, McLaughlin has mainly featured as a sub, and he's only played 54 minutes in the league since October! Hurst has been on record saying that unfavoured players need to impress him when they get a chance in the squad - McLaughlin's last start came in the Trophy against Gateshead when he scored a great goal and was one of our better performers. What does Hurst do after that? He drops him!

One of the biggest reservations supporters have this season is the lack of entertainment and the defensive manner in which we set up at home. If Hurst had been more adventurous, stuck with the midfield 3 which saw some of our best performances this season and played McLaughlin in central midfield a bit more I reckon we wouldn't have thrown anywhere near as many points away at home. Of course this isn't something I can quantify, is only my opinion and by no means am I suggesting he's a world beater, but I'd certainly be a bit miffed if I was McLaughlin - especially when certain players find themselves in the starting 11 every game regardless of how poor or ineffective their recent performances have been.

Spot on for me. Never been given a fair chance which is criminal as he's clearly got something about him.

Quoted from Vance Warner

Another player who seems to get better when he's not playing. I was one of the few who went to Gateshead and despite a cracking goal he offered little else. I suspect he's found his level but let's not miss out on an opportunity for a bit of Hurst bashing.

Don't be so churlish.

Quoted from AdamHaddock

Least we'll have a match fit Paddy in the event of injuries - or if we reach the play offs. I'd still rather he was playing at town though

I may be reading too much into things but I like the fact that we have three fringe players out on loan getting match fitness.  It achieves two things - it ensures a tight knit squad in training with those most likely to be involved in the match day squad bonding together at a key time.  Secondly if we get a run of injuries then Caine, Hamish and Paddy could find themselves involved and they will be fitter and more prepared for having played some matches.  Good management from PH.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Exactly what I said at the beginning of this season and got slagged off for my comment.

We don't know who made the choice to sign him, Hurst or Scott or both, but a mistake clearly as Hurst has never really wanted to play him regularly.

Surely on this basis we would only have 11 players.  We need a squad of players and Paddy is quite versatile which makes him a good player to have in reserve.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Have I suggested this? No. Have I tried to quantify my reasoning with evidence that some of our best performances this season have come when McLaughlin has been played in his favoured position in a similar formation to the one he excelled for York in and made a reasonable assertion that Hurst isn't adventurous enough in the way he sets the team up at home? Yes I have. I wasn't at the Gateshead trophy game, but it sounded like a poor team performance all-round, and McLoughlin's goal was the highlight. I certainly wouldn't suggest that Ross Hannah (who I presume you are also inferring gets better when he's not playing) merits more playing time this season.

Fair enough but in my opinion he's not a good enough player to change the entire system to accommodate. For what it's worth I would say he's slightly better than Thanoj and slightly worse than Artus. Just because a player is left out of a team doesn't necessarily mean he's been badly managed as some are suggesting.  I wasn't thinking of Hannah getting better when he's not playing but it seems to apply to Hamish who no-one really knows anything about.

Quoted from mariner2000

Walker was pulled off as he felt his hamstring so it could be an early end to his loan spell!!!!

"All I get at Grimsby is an icepack" said Paul (paraphrasing Rodney Marsh).

Criminal someone like Craig clay gets in ahead of Patrick McLaughlin.

Absolutely bizarre , obviously because he can play a bit of football Hurst doesn't  like him.

At least we got parslow to come in if needed to get us playing.

FFS .

Quoted from Vance Warner

Another player who seems to get better when he's not playing. I was one of the few who went to Gateshead and despite a cracking goal he offered little else. I suspect he's found his level but let's not miss out on an opportunity for a bit of Hurst bashing.

Was he left mid or left back for that game ?

You are talking about a player who has never been given a chance in his best position.

Hurst deserves every bit of criticism for not giving the lad a chance.

He is one of the best midfielders in our league and I have seen for myself  what the lad can do when he basically took the urine out of us a couple of seasons ago.

Hurst has seen him every day in training and doesn't fancy him. Obviously has talent but never quite imposes himself enough for me. Certainly never seen enough to suggest we should set up specifically to accomodate him and if we play two in the middle him and Disley doesn't work and I'd pick Disley every time. Probably just not the right type for our manager and fairly instructive that another 'pragmatic' manager in Nigel Worthington didn't fancy him either. Hope the loan goes well for him as who knows what the rest of the season might bring.

Chdajatl  

Another player that Hurst was involved in signing then doesn't play.  If he ain't good enough, why bring him in. If he's not suited to the system of play why sign him?

Either he's good enough or not, or he's the right player for the system or not. Either way it's Hurst's choice. He can't avoid criticism.

Does every thread have to turn into a Hurst bashing one.

For me it's a great move for both player and club. He's not getting games here at the moment, so he needs to get games under his belt elsewhere. I'm sure he'll play regularly for Harrogate and if anything happens to anyone then I'm sure we'll be able to recall him immediately and he'll go into the team with a few games behind him rather than coming into the team cold having not played for a number of weeks.

One of the first rules of football is that you should never change a winning team, so hopefully we won't have to recall him.

Quoted from Les Brechin

Does every thread have to turn into a Hurst bashing one.

For me it's a great move for both player and club. He's not getting games here at the moment, so he needs to get games under his belt elsewhere. I'm sure he'll play regularly for Harrogate and if anything happens to anyone then I'm sure we'll be able to recall him immediately and he'll go into the team with a few games behind him rather than coming into the team cold having not played for a number of weeks.

One of the first rules of football is that you should never change a winning team, so hopefully we won't have to recall him.

Rubbish.

He could go out on loan play every game score in every game and come back and still not get a game.

He has not got a future here and we know it,  hurst would much rather have clay who I still to this day have no idea what anyone sees in him play ahead of him.

Regarding hurst bashing , I'm not bashing him I'm saying I don't like him never will and that's my opinion.

The irony in all this is that when the 4-3-3 system wasn't working, the clamour was to revert to a 4-4-2. Now we're playing 4-4-2, in an effective but apparently unsatisfactory manner, the clamour is to switch again to accommodate apparently better players. The manager cannot win.

I accept there may well be a valid point about opportunities but, personally, I think Paddy is a better player in a midfield three and I would be concerned about going into a big game with him in a central pair. It seems eminently sensible to me for him to take this chance to get some games and at least be match sharp if the call comes.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Was he left mid or left back for that game ?

You are talking about a player who has never been given a chance in his best position.

Hurst deserves every bit of criticism for not giving the lad a chance.

He is one of the best midfielders in our league and I have seen for myself  what the lad can do when he basically took the urine out of us a couple of seasons ago.

Although I like Paddy Mc, he does tend to fade away.  Anyway, it's not about giving players a "chance" - it's about picking what the manager thinks is the best side to do the job in hand, as he sees it.  Hurst, a professional manager, gets to see the players training all week long and makes decisions based on that.   More specious criticism.

Quoted from nickmariners

Although I like Paddy Mc, he does tend to fade away.  Anyway, it's not about giving players a "chance" - it's about picking what the manager thinks is the best side to do the job in hand, as he sees it.  Hurst, a professional manager, gets to see the players training all week long and makes decisions based on that.   More specious criticism.

It's all very well monitoring players in training, but it's what they do in competitive games that really counts. Some players just turn it on for real games and some fade in them. So for me, I'm happy that people judge a player by what they see in competitive games, not what the manager might see in training.

Quoted from Les Brechin

Does every thread have to turn into a Hurst bashing one.

For me it's a great move for both player and club. He's not getting games here at the moment, so he needs to get games under his belt elsewhere. I'm sure he'll play regularly for Harrogate and if anything happens to anyone then I'm sure we'll be able to recall him immediately and he'll go into the team with a few games behind him rather than coming into the team cold having not played for a number of weeks.

One of the first rules of football is that you should never change a winning team, so hopefully we won't have to recall him.

No. It's just that for several people the manager's decisions are sometimes questionable. There are plenty of  "non-Hurst bashing" threads. The minute you get down to discussing players and tactics then there's got to be room for debate and disagreement.

So someone reports something about a player. That's news. But hey, that information is available through other channels and this is a message board where people post opinions. What are they expected to say. "Oh, that's interesting" and leave it at that? Or can people express an opinion provided it's of the "good decision by Hurst" variety?

I'm not so sure that the argument that it's a good thing Paddy is going to get game time holds much water. If he were a youngster that needed building up I can understand, or if he was coming back from a long term injury. In this case it smacks more of "player not wanted." If he's that far down the pecking order he can be released on loan, it's not likely he'll be called back to slot into the team, match fit or not.

As for not changing a winning team....will someone tell Paul Hurst that?

When was it that "4-3-3 wasn't working" anyway?

Quoted from Les Brechin

Does every thread have to turn into a Hurst bashing one.

For me it's a great move for both player and club. He's not getting games here at the moment, so he needs to get games under his belt elsewhere. I'm sure he'll play regularly for Harrogate and if anything happens to anyone then I'm sure we'll be able to recall him immediately and he'll go into the team with a few games behind him rather than coming into the team cold having not played for a number of weeks.

One of the first rules of football is that you should never change a winning team, so hopefully we won't have to recall him.

Never saw that one when I did a refs course!

Regarding the Hurst bashing thing, isn't it a valid point to ask the question why he signs several players who are more comfortable in a 433 when he insists on playing a 442?

It's only a question on a message board based on differing opinions!

Those claiming 'Hurst bashing' are the negative ones. Stop moaning about other people's considered opinion.

Quoted from chaos33

Those claiming 'Hurst bashing' are the negative ones. Stop moaning about other people's considered opinion.

Exactly.

Whenever someone questions his decisions or selections etc it is bought down by fishy law as hurst bashing.

I seem to remember chants of "442!, 442!" when we used to play 433. How times change.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Exactly.

Whenever someone questions his decisions or selections etc it is bought down by fishy law as hurst bashing.

I'll keep bashing away then at his boring defensive set ups if that's ok  

Quoted from psgmariner

I seem to remember chants of "442!, 442!" when we used to play 433. How times change.

Do you mean 4-5-1 PSG  

We don't have the players to successfully play 4-3-3 in my opinion.

None of our central midfielders has anything in the way of pace (Disley is probably the quickest of them, I'd have thought!) and I just don't think we are capable of covering the ground quickly enough in the centre of the park to cover the space when you have just 3 in midfield. Our defence doesn't really have much in the way of pace either, Toto aside.

We've certainly got the mobility and strength amongst the forwards to play three up front, but I don't think the midfield would cut it. Two of the attackers would need to do a lot more defending than is ideal and it would end up as more of a 4-5-1 which is fine in itself if you can play it well, but not exactly the attacking formation some desire.

On that note, I don't think we're nearly good enough on the counter-attack to play 4-5-1 successfully too often. Passing through our midfield tends to be excruciatingly slow, we rarely make incisive passes and the midfielders don't get up in numbers quickly enough either.

With this in mind, I think 4-4-2 is probably our best choice.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Criminal someone like Craig clay gets in ahead of Patrick McLaughlin.

Absolutely bizarre , obviously because he can play a bit of football Hurst doesn't  like him.

At least we got parslow to come in if needed to get us playing.

FFS .

For me clay is easily a better prospect, his workrate is excellent and commitment to challenges has put a bit of bite in our midfield, he can pass and makes clever runs forward. But for having a couple of injuries I think he would have been the main starter in the middle this season. He is an intelligent footballer and I think he may really improve with us if he stays.

I haven't done any Hurst bashing for a few days.

I am now counting the days to the end of the season to see how it pans out. My guess is that we will fall just short again and he will move on to bore another set of fans somewhere in Yorkshire.

I do however, genuinely hope he succeeds in getting us back in the League and then of course he will deserve another go at it. He seems to have fallen into the Marmite category as did Slade.

I don't like Marmite either.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

For me clay is easily a better prospect, his workrate is excellent and commitment to challenges has put a bit of bite in our midfield, he can pass and makes clever runs forward. But for having a couple of injuries I think he would have been the main starter in the middle this season. He is an intelligent footballer and I think he may really improve with us if he stays.

Clay and Mac are two different styles of players and IMO suit different formations Clay 442 and Mac 433, whilst we are playing 442 Clay is obviously Hurst choice and IMO the right one, Paddy needs to play competitive football to satisfy everyone that he will be ready if needed at Wembley

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Rubbish.

He could go out on loan play every game score in every game and come back and still not get a game.

He has not got a future here and we know it,  hurst would much rather have clay who I still to this day have no idea what anyone sees in him play ahead of him.

Regarding hurst bashing , I'm not bashing him I'm saying I don't like him never will and that's my opinion.

Well, that's cleared that issue up then.  Thank goodness you're not bashing him.  

Quoted from KingstonMariner

No. It's just that for several people the manager's decisions are sometimes questionable. There are plenty of  "non-Hurst bashing" threads. The minute you get down to discussing players and tactics then there's got to be room for debate and disagreement.

So someone reports something about a player. That's news. But hey, that information is available through other channels and this is a message board where people post opinions. What are they expected to say. "Oh, that's interesting" and leave it at that? Or can people express an opinion provided it's of the "good decision by Hurst" variety?

I'm not so sure that the argument that it's a good thing Paddy is going to get game time holds much water. If he were a youngster that needed building up I can understand, or if he was coming back from a long term injury. In this case it smacks more of "player not wanted." If he's that far down the pecking order he can be released on loan, it's not likely he'll be called back to slot into the team, match fit or not.

As for not changing a winning team....will someone tell Paul Hurst that?

That's exactly how I see it especially at this time of the season.

Paddy hasnt even been able to make the bench for the last couple of games so IMO makes loads of sense to get him out on loan and get some game time

Quoted from headingly_mariner

For me clay is easily a better prospect, his workrate is excellent and commitment to challenges has put a bit of bite in our midfield, he can pass and makes clever runs forward. But for having a couple of injuries I think he would have been the main starter in the middle this season. He is an intelligent footballer and I think he may really improve with us if he stays.

Well as they say football is about opinions and that is yours.

But mine is he is nothing as what you have described as above.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

It's all very well monitoring players in training, but it's what they do in competitive games that really counts. Some players just turn it on for real games and some fade in them. So for me, I'm happy that people judge a player by what they see in competitive games, not what the manager might see in training.

Sorry, I'm struggling with the assertion that the views of people about a players worth (I'm assuming you mean some fans) have somehow more credence than those of the professional manager who sees what they do in a training situation.

Paddy will sign for the likes of Gateshead next season,

AND

Will have a really good season imo,

I just hope we are not in this league to see him.

Well I'm off to the Harrogate game tomorrow as it's 20 mins away.

Quoted from barralad

Sorry, I'm struggling with the assertion that the views of people about a players worth (I'm assuming you mean some fans) have somehow more credence than those of the professional manager who sees what they do in a training situation.

Stop writing between the lines. Where did I say fans views were worth more than the manager's? What I actually said was that I would sooner judge a player on his performances on the pitch rather than on what another person assumed the manager had seen in training. People in all walks of life might perform well in training but fail to perform well in the real job.

Given your comment about "the professional manager", would I be right to conclude that you wouldn't hold with any criticism of any manager because he is in the job and fans are not? If not, when does it become OK to criticise? Does the rule apply to all walks of life - if you're paid to do a job you're immune from criticism?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

It's all very well monitoring players in training, but it's what they do in competitive games that really counts. Some players just turn it on for real games and some fade in them. So for me, I'm happy that people judge a player by what they see in competitive games, not what the manager might see in training.

How would you propose a team be selected from a squad then?  Every player in a squad won't have had a 'competitive game' every week.  

I understand that you are a critic of the manager - but he is paid to make assessment from all the evidence he can gather, and select the team he thinks will do best.

Obviously performance in competitive games counts as a selection criteria - but, on that point, Paddy, skilful player though he can be, has faded out in the admittedly few matches he played this season.  I didn't see the Gateshead goal - sounded great, and I've seen several good passages of play involving him.  But - this thread isn't really about Paddy Mc is it?

For anyone interested, Paddy played the full 90 minutes of Harrogate's 2-1 win over Gloucester City today. He looked the best footballer by a mile in what was a physical game on a sh1t pitch.

Paul Walker was an unused sub.

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

No such player at Mansfield. At least not in the first team squad

How the F*** does passing on some information get a X. There are some Saddo's on here.