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RIP  DAVE

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grimsby pete
March 3, 2015, 10:52am

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Quoted from BIGChris


He was indeed and also managed Derby to the League title


It was good honest football in Dave's day,

Yes he was hard but not dirty,

Also there was very little cheating by pulling of shirts,

A good crunching tackle where you saw players stay down only when they were injured,

The good old days.


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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BIGChris
March 3, 2015, 11:01am
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Quoted from grimsby pete


It was good honest football in Dave's day,

Yes he was hard but not dirty,

Also there was very little cheating by pulling of shirts,

A good crunching tackle where you saw players stay down only when they were injured,

The good old days.


He fitted into the football of the day well and by todays standards he would be banned sine die. As would many many others. Every side had a few who 'could look after themselves', many of whom have been mentioned but i think some look back on them as the good old days.

I agree they didnt get the rolling about, diving and play acting but lets face it, it was quite violent. Referees hardly made decisions, they just let players get on with it
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
March 3, 2015, 11:29am
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Quoted from BIGChris


He fitted into the football of the day well and by todays standards he would be banned sine die. As would many many others. Every side had a few who 'could look after themselves', many of whom have been mentioned but i think some look back on them as the good old days.

I agree they didnt get the rolling about, diving and play acting but lets face it, it was quite violent. Referees hardly made decisions, they just let players get on with it


Never mind the ball, get on with the game!


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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TownSNAFU5
March 3, 2015, 11:50am
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I think that today,  Bobby Cumming would "lay a few out" before he got his marching orders.

No chance though these days to put an opponent into the Barratt Stand hoardings.
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diehardmariner
March 3, 2015, 12:39pm
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I'm not long enough in the tooth to recall the aforementioned hard men but from what I've seen on clips, replays etc. there was just as much cheating as there is today, it was just in a different form.

Whereas today you get shirts pulled and players diving, previously a set of studs down the back of the calf or a forearm smash was the call of the day.  

I don't condone cheating at all.  I hate diving and I've cringed when Town players have done it but football rules have always been bent and broken, how that has happened has changed over time.  It's only in the modern game that everything is caught on camera and then analysed to death to fill up TV time/back pages.  
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mike502
March 3, 2015, 12:44pm
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Not directly Mackay-related, but apparently David Elleray reviewed a tape of the 1969-70 FA Cup final replay about 30 years later and concluded that, with modern refereeing standards, there would have been six red cards and twenty yellows.  At the time, the referee issued one yellow card!
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Maringer
March 3, 2015, 12:46pm
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Before my time, but I hear that Franny Lee was notorious for 'winning' penalties by flinging himself to the ground dramatically whenever a defender got near him. No different to Ashley Young et al these days, really.
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grimsby pete
March 3, 2015, 12:51pm

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Quoted from mike502
Not directly Mackay-related, but apparently David Elleray reviewed a tape of the 1969-70 FA Cup final replay about 30 years later and concluded that, with modern refereeing standards, there would have been six red cards and twenty yellows.  At the time, the referee issued one yellow card!


Also Nat Lofthouse would have been sent off when he barged Harry Gregg into the goal,

Instead he scored.


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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Maringer
March 3, 2015, 12:56pm
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Quoted from mike502
Not directly Mackay-related, but apparently David Elleray reviewed a tape of the 1969-70 FA Cup final replay about 30 years later and concluded that, with modern refereeing standards, there would have been six red cards and twenty yellows.  At the time, the referee issued one yellow card!


I remember about ten years ago, there was a phase where they repeated older editions Match of the Day (or possibly the ITV equivalent) on telly during the afternoon. During one of these repeats, I remember catching 15 minutes of highlights filmed in the mid to late 1980s, Newcastle vs Forest at St. James Park, and was amazed at some of the tackles going in. Basically, every time the ball went towards Gascoigne, Des Walker (who I never remember being a dirty player) simply went through the back of him two-footed to win the ball! No foul awarded and both players just got up and carried on with things. I remember thinking at the time that it would have been an almost certain red card in the modern day yet the ref didn't even blow for a foul!

Just goes to show how much has changed in recent years. On the other hand, I doubt the referees back then would allow players to get away with the shirt-pulling and obstruction which now seems to be the norm at set pieces.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
March 3, 2015, 1:37pm
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Very hard to compare modern with the past. Ireland's injury at the weekend was horrendous for example and went unpunished by the referee.

Just my impressions from the past but the game seemed more honest and open in terms of physical contact. The tackle from behind is now banned yet in all honesty in probably hundreds of games I saw in the 60s and 70s I don't remember a really serious injury from that tackle, maybe because the boots covered the ankle better. The broken bones seemed to come from direct collisions and frontal tackles largely because those boots were lethal battering weapons.

I did see players deliberately kick out at opponents and look for "afters" when they had been tackled but there again that happens now. I saw Jim Baxter at Forest turn round after being clobbered and give the lad who did it a look of pity before leaving him in a heap the next time the ball came him. He was sent off then as he would be now.

Goalkeepers were unprotected and there were high profile injuries to some like Wood, Gregg, Trautmann etc. but goalkeepers still get injured now and to my mind there is far more foul play and violence in the penalty area than ever there was in those days.

Nobody can really say that players from those days would not survive now because they would simply have found other ways to do what they did. Ron Harris would still chop and Norman would still bite yer legs only with a bit more subtlety and from a different direction. I think Dave Mackay would still have been a great player today, he was clever enough to sort it out.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
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